Tell Us What You Would Like to see From SNS, CEL, Muscle Addiction, & XPG (2024 Edition)
- Thread starter sns8778
- Start date
jh1
Member
Anabolic XT is great. You're going to love that with Recomp20
alvin1
Well-known member
Keep up the good work, for some of us the write up are a real added value, hopefully your business growth I have requested multiple time to have your brand carry at to online supplement place I buy, but the don't carry your stuff. I have a nephews that started weight training, he his 16 , when time come for supplementation I will surely recommend your brand to him
sns8778
Board Sponsor
Thank you. I really appreciate that.
I love working with different retailers and we are super easy to work with from a wholesale side of things. Unfortunately, some retailers only want to carry brands that have huge advertising budgets. But it always helps when people request that retailers carry us. Which retailer is it?
Johnanthab178
New member
Awesome stuff man. Is there any chance in the future we may get more solo products like SNS “Black ginger”, “Maral root”, “Shilajit”, etc ?
alvin1
Well-known member
muscles and strenght, and Iherb
sns8778
Board Sponsor
Thank you. Those are two that I would definitely love to work with and hope to maybe be able to at some point. I know that Muscle & Strength is one that definitely leans more towards carrying brands based off of advertising budget.
sns8778
Board Sponsor
Thank you.
I'm not sure - it would really just depend on demand.
I'm always open to ideas for single ingredient products, but we are definitely more focused on formulas now days.
There are a couple of reasons for that, and a big one is that the market is plagued by a lot of single ingredient products now days that don't even try to meet label claims and its impossible for companies to compete with that. This has become extremely prevalent in cases where people will go on Amazon and just search an ingredient and buy the cheapest thing they find or the one that has the best search results - and many times the price looks too good to be true, and that's because it is because the brands aren't meeting label claims and sometimes not even putting any at all of the claimed ingredient.
Business practices like that, and people rewarding the brands that do it by buying their products, deter legitimate brands from being nearly as interested in the single ingredient market anymore.
I'll go on there sometimes and look at the price of something and know what the Amazon fee is and its simple math because I know what the products cost to make and I'll wind up just shaking my head bc I know its impossible.
NOW Foods has been doing a lot of testing of brands on there for the last year or more and the results are very eye opening. They are testing a lot of the Amazon based brands and many of the brands you never see or hear of outside of there, and a few that you do. Just last month they tested berberine supplements and here was the result:
18 of the 33 brands tested contained less than 40% of labeled potency. That's more than half of all brands tested that didn't even contain a mediocre 40% level of potency. 7 of the 33 tested samples had 1% or less of Berberine potency in each product
Notable examples - I've seen people here on AM recommend NutraVein and Nutriflair and their products were 26% and 16% of label claims.
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Don't take my post wrong - I appreciate the suggestion and I'm definitely open to suggestions on single ingredient supplements that people would like to see from us. I just wanted to explain why we are more discerning as far as doing new single ingredient ones now days.
alvin1
Well-known member
Did you approach Iherbs they have so many brand, I don t see why could you not find a place there
Johnanthab178
New member
Thanks for the explanation. Im not a business man but it does seem that things have changed over the years regarding supplements. Seems like a lot of companies (especially on Amazon) are selling products just sell them disregarding the source of the material; hence, lower potency products and sometimes it contains little or none of the product they’re selling. It’s great but a challenge to find reliable companies now days. Especially during the shortages which is understandable
sns8778
Board Sponsor
Long story and hard to publicly explain, but being listed on iHerb doesn't necessarily mean being actually stocked and carried by iHerb and it can cost some brands more money to be listed/carried there than it makes them.
A lot of people don't realize that with some mega retailers, brands actually have to pay to be listed there or give net terms which can mean going months without being paid for inventory. That can make sense for larger brands but be incredibly difficult for small to medium sized brands.
I would love to work with them, that would be fantastic, but it would have to be a situation that would make sense.
Also, there's such a huge difference between being listed by them and actually being pushed by them, and I would love to one day hopefully be in a situation where instead of just another brand being listed that maybe they would actually like to try to sell the products.
sns8778
Board Sponsor
I love supplements and I love helping people, that's what I like about this industry.
But there are many things I dislike about this industry and it seems to get worse rather than better - companies blatantly ripping people off by not meeting label claims and in some cases not even trying to; heck, a lot of companies not even doing basic heavy metals or microbial testing, etc. A lot of the companies selling on Amazon aren't even trying to meet label claims, they're just straight scams trying to make as much money as possible.
As someone that has been in this industry for a long time, there are very few brands I actually trust to use myself. And a lot of brands I at least trust their quality, I don't really like their formulas, but can at least respect that they meet label claims.
grovemule
Member
Big believer in curcumin. Have read great reviews on theracurmin. My wallet is already crying in pain. Is it better than the phytosome curcumin I'm currently taking? Doctor's BestTheracurmin XT - New Product Release
For just awhile longer, you can still save an additional 25% to 30% off with the New Years Sale coupon codes.
Intro Thread:
SNS Theracurmin XT - 300 mg - 27x More Bioavailable than Standard Curcumin - Available Now!
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Theracurmin XT - 300 mg. - 60 Veg Caps:
- Normal Price: 39.99 (Incredible value versus what this ingredient is selling for by others)
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Theracurmin XT - 300 mg. - 3 Bottle Discounted Multi-Pack
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sns8778
Board Sponsor
Yes, I think its is much better than Meriva. I have researched the different forms of curcumin very extensively when researching Elite Curcumin, and I'm honestly not a fan of Meriva. Don't get me wrong, I think its better than generic curcumin, but I think Theracurmin is far superior to it in my opinion.
I love Quercefit, which is by the same company as Meriva, but just not a fan of Meriva (curcumin phytosome).
Being totally honest and transparent, we had some people hoping we would have included the Meriva one in Elite Curcumin and I just couldn't in good faith put it in there. We went with C3 Curcumin Complex, CurcuPrime, and Theracurmin because I thought all 3 were better forms than Meriva.
Hans7
New member
I’m most excited about the endurance and recovery stuff! I will definitely be your first customer on those; I’m currently taking Peak 02 (8 weeks in) and I’ve noticed a significant improvement to sprint sessions and long runs. Breathing is just easier.
Also, I always enjoy the detailed write ups, even for products I don’t purchase, the info you share is always very helpful.
sns8778
Board Sponsor
Thank you. I really appreciate the kind words and support.
I think that people will find that if they like PEAK02, they'll be extremely pleased with the new endurance products bc I think they are a huge step up from PEAK02 solo.
Danksta710
Active member
The in depth write ups are great. If people do a google search these threads pop up. I see them as great source of information. Someone a few years from now would get lots of good info in one spot vs going all over. I think many see them, read them and move on. They have lots of value. Thx for putting in that effort.
WhatsaBench
New member
I would be interested in Quercefit or another quercetin supp, it works great for my seasonal allergies.
sns8778
Board Sponsor
Quercefit will be included in the new version of Immune Support XT that we are hoping to get in stock within the next couple of weeks. We will also be using it in another upcoming product as well.
sns8778
Board Sponsor
CEL Joint Edge - Fast Acting Proven Joint Support - Get Relief in as Little as 5 Days!
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anabolicminds.com
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Hyde
Legend
CEL Joint Edge - Fast Acting Proven Joint Support - Get Relief in as Little as 5 Days!
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Well this is cool
Not familiar with TamaFlex.
grovemule
Member
Good to know. Knowledge is power. Thanks Steve
sns8778
Board Sponsor
You're very welcome.
I love the science and the ingredients themselves and enjoy being able to discuss them, especially with people that legitimately want to learn about them. That's something I wish there was more interest in on here, just regular ingredient discussion about things like that.
LucasBagoDoce
Member
Very excited for tribulus aquaticus, WPI, carb powder, and L-Carnitine gel.
What a promising 2024!
What a promising 2024!
sns8778
Board Sponsor
The greens powder has been a challenging one to formulate because there's none that I really like enough to buy myself, so I want to do the best formula and something I would be proud to offer and want to use myself, but the issue in that category is that besides the very expensive highly marketed ones, a lot of people just want the cheapest thing possible and that doesn't give much room to work as far as the ingredients.
So in the case of this formula, I've designed what I feel would be perfect, but I'm not sure it would sell well because it would be a 49.99'ish product, so I've been looking at different ideas to scale the formula back.
Part of the issue is that I have an excellent fruits/veggies capsule formula designed and its extremely comprehensive but not inexpensive on its own - but in a perfect world, a serving of that would be the base of the greens powder. But I've realized that it simply isn't a good idea from a cost standpoint.
Idea 1 was to use the capsule product base and add additional things to it, but we'd be looking at 49.99.
Idea 2 has been to only carry over a couple components of the capsule formula to the powder and make it a bit less expensive, and then people can always use the capsule formula with it if they want to.
Another challenge is that as many know, there are a lot of 'fluff' blends commonly thrown in greens formulas, like just a gram of the cheapest mushroom blend possible to show that it has a gram of mushrooms. Whereas if I'm going to put something in there, I want to use ideal dosages.
I think I'm overthinking this one haha.
sns8778
Board Sponsor
Ha - you're going to have everyone mad at me for answering this honestly haha.
The product is actually made and bottled as of last week - the holdup was on me deciding on a name and a label style for it.
Which we finalized the label and style at the end of last week and it's been sent to print now, so it should be available in the next couple of weeks.
Hyde
Legend
Oh that’s awesome timing! I just moved into a cruise phase yesterday, so I was hoping to get try a few bottles before I go back on blast later in summer. Sounds like it’s going to work out after all!
sns8778
Board Sponsor
Yes, it should as far as I know. It took forever as I couldn't decide what to name it and couldn't decide how I wanted to do the label. I thought about incorporating some green like Prime and Primal but it just didn't work with the SNS label style. The finished label has just a touch of green here and there, but couldn't figure out how to make it look right - I had liked the way Primal had done theirs in that you knew what it was just looking at it.
I'll also go ahead and confirm that ours will be a 180 capsule size so its larger than the others were.
LucasBagoDoce
Member
sns8778
Board Sponsor
I hope so. I'm really curious to see how good of a seller it will be.
I would say probably February.
The label artwork is almost done and should be finalized this week.
The product itself is in the testing phase - there's a lot more that goes into a lot of the Xtreme Performance Gels products than people realize.
There is a lot of testing that goes into carrier customization and in this case, the types of carnitines and percentages of each that will being used.
Xtreme Performance Gels doesn't use the same carrier for each product as some brands do, as every ingredient and ingredient combination is unique and there is a lot of testing done to optimize the carrier for each ingredient or ingredient combination. XPG uses the Avant Labs carriers, which are considered by many to be the gold standard of td carriers, and one of the major reasons why is anyone that remembers Avant likely remembers how much of a perfectionist they were/are about their carrier systems being perfect for the respective products.
sns8778
Board Sponsor
Thank you for the suggestion.
The first protein flavors will be a great chocolate and vanilla - as those are just a must. The irony with proteins is that 90% of protein sales are chocolate and vanilla, but people always want to see a bunch of flavors - its like the unique flavors draw a lot of people in, even if they wind up buying Chocolate and Vanilla.
But I am trying to figure out 2 additional flavors in both types to add, and also considering a fruit flavored Clear Whey, so I welcome any suggestions.
For now, as far as strawberry protein, have you tried Ketogenics IsoWhey Strawberry? It's awesome imo. If you haven't, next time you order something from us, if you'll remind me, I'll throw you in a couple servings as long as you are cool with it being in a ziplock bag and with the disclaimer that its coming from me the person, not the company haha.
sns8778
Board Sponsor
I'll write an update here for this - and I would love to have your or anyone's elses opinion and input.
I have 2 versions of this product designed - including label artwork done for each, as one is just a lesser expensive version of the other.
Some people say that they really like when I go in depth about formulas and behind the scenes things and everything that goes into making a product, so I'm going to give some insight into why this product hasn't been pushed to the front and has been difficult to make some decisions on.
One holdup was that an ingredient I wanted to use was in short supply for awhile and we use it in other products, so business wise I could not justify going out of stock on an existing good seller to use the limited supplies available of that ingredient in a new product. It could have put us out of stock of an existing good seller and also there was no use launching Libido Boost XT to then just sell thru it and be out of stock anyway. That issue though is now resolved as the supply chain has normalized on that ingredient and we bought a lot of it to make sure we have plenty on hand.
When designing a product, there are a lot of factors that come into play, but two of the biggest ones are the desired number of capsules and also the price point that a company wants the product to sell at.
I have a habit, which is bad for business, of designing the best possible products and looking at pricing and realizing that to make an average margin the end price of the product would be higher than I think people could afford or want to buy it at. This has led too a lot of times where we'll wind up with a great product at a great selling price, but its because we make better formulas (higher cost) and sell them for less than other companies.
There's the personal side of me that's glad to do that because I want people to be able to afford the products and love them. However, there's the business side of me that gets harsh reminders from our CPA that I do that entirely too much and that if I want to ever have money to really grow the business and advertise, that I have to stop going low margin on everything haha.
Here's how all this applies to Libido Boost XT.
The number of capsules for the product needs to be maximum of 4 because anytime a formula goes over 4 capsules, you lose a significant amount of the general market customer base. That limits the formula to a maximum of 3,000 mg. and that's if all of the ingredients are of average density and you can fit the maximum average volume per size 00 capsule of them.
That leaves us as the price point.
One of the best ways to determine a price point that a product needs to be at is by looking at what other products in the particular category sell for and also looking at what products in that category that have failed tried to sell for. I exclude products with crazy marketing budgets bc most of the time those are going to sell regardless.
That's where a problem comes in because the most common selling price for products in this category that sell well is 29.99 and then some at 39.99, but the sales numbers on those are substantially less, which is to be expected bc 29.99 is like a magical number to many supplement consumers.
There are some great natural testosterone boosters available that increase libido like Optimize-T and M-Test, but for the purposes of this product design, although it will increase natural testosterone levels, that's not the focus - the emphasis is on libido and erection quality.
I honestly cannot find a single libido specific product on the market that I am impressed with - and part of that goes back to the above price points that I walked anyone reading through, because to sell at 29.99 and figure margins, retailer margins, etc. - that doesn't leave much room to use really good ingredients because many of the really good ingredients in this category are expensive.
When I start designing a formula, I tend to go all out and start off by designing the absolute best possible formula and then scale back from there.
In this case, the formula I wound up with that I really wanted to do, which would be an incredible product would be a 49.99 to 59.99 product - and that's not a 49.99 to 59.99 product with a healthy margin, that's with a low margin. If it were done by a company that goes off ideal margin structure, it would be 89.99 to 99.99.
I'd be fine with going lower margin on this and having it sell at 49.99 to 59.99, but I'm not sure it would sell at that price range.
It would be a heck of a value for all of the ingredients in it, but the average general consumer would never know that - they don't know about the ingredients and would just see a product that was out of their comfort zone price wise.
That led me to doing a toned down version of the formula, but its still expensive - that's something I've been struggling with is that there is just no way to do a product that I'd be proud of and have it sell at 29.99 and even 39.99 would be removing quite a bit of what I want to be there.
Sorry for being long winded here, but some people say they like when I walk people through the process like this and that they like that I care enough about consumers to allow people to be a part of this process. I enjoy it and I like the feedback and interaction.
So anyway - that's where I am on this - deciding between the ultimate end all be all libido formula that would sell for 49.99 to 59.99 or doing a still great and better than anything else version that would sell for 39.99 or so.
I hope I explained that in a way that made sense and didn't bore anyone to death.
baldwanus
Well-known member
My dad whose in his 60's has recently started using protein powders just for general added protein to his diet... I've let him try plenty of the unique flavors I get, and while he's liked some stuff, like the GHOST Nutter Butter whey, he's pretty deadset on always getting chocolate tubs.
I've always been someone who wants multiple flavors on hand/always changing things up... but I'm sure my dad is representative of the vast majority of regular consumers.
jh1
Member
Personally, I'd prefer the more expensive, more effective version. Unfortunately, from a business perspective, the less expensive option would probably be a better seller for SNS. Is this a situation where the formulas would only differ by a single ingredient? If so would it make sense to go with the cheaper, less complete formula, and then offer the missing ingredient as a solo offering for those of us who would like to experience the complete package?
dukes3577
Active member
I am down with the more expensive version as well. From a business aspect I get it though. I have currently been using a product in this category since its release a year ago and it’s $59.99 before discounted. I have been waiting on this release as I know I will be switching to a superior product.
BillD
Active member
$60 is definitely too high for a natural supplement for most people. Not that I can afford it but on top of pre workouts and whatever else people are taking it adds up rather quickly. I think that would eliminate many consumers. I’m assuming $60 would be for a month supply. $39-$45 would be sweet spot for me personally. Without knowing the ingredients it’s tough to determine if the extra cost would be worth it. I have no doubt your formula will be great and I’ll definitely be purchasing but if it’s $60 it may just end up an every once in awhile purchase.
Jensing
New member
I've always thought the supplement industry would be fun, but man there's a lot that goes into it... I personally have been using Performax for the last couple months and like it, but don't love it. I've tried cheaper one and more expensive ones. I personally would be willing to spend up to 50 a month for a good formula since I feel the 30 a month ones don't really do anything for me.
sns8778
Board Sponsor
I'll be honest and say that I have zero interest in that ingredient - not in offering it nor in using it.
I haven't done a deep dive into it, but to my knowledge there is only one study on it and it was funded by the owners of the ingredient, who then did the exclusivity type deal with Muscletech because they know that Muscletech is great at advertising and has millions to spend on marketing. Very good business decision on their end.
I don't think that it or anything is going to be as good as they way its being hyped up to be - I'm not saying that it may not work, but there's no way I would pay that much for that ingredient personally.
No disrespect meant, but it reminds me of the hype when MuscleTech did the same thing with Leukic - it was supposed to be the greatest thing in the world, but now no one even mentions it.
It also reminds me of when there was the year or however long exclusive with Muscletech on that Paraxanthine ingredient - it had been available for years but no one really used it. Then they gave Muscletech a year exclusive and Muscletech's advertising got hype on the ingredient but feedback on it wasn't nearly as good as the hype and now the ingredient is available for us and you don't see hardly any companies using it or demand for it.
sns8778
Board Sponsor
That's my dilemma as well - I personally would prefer the absolute best version but I know that it's probably not the best business decision.
No, they would differ by a couple of ingredients, or at least in dosages.
And other things come into play - like for example:
- Horny Goat Weed 500 mg. of 10% Icariin and Horny Goat Weed 500 mg. of 20% Icariin look the same to 95% of the general public, as the average person doesn't realize its the Icariin giving the effectiveness and therefore the 500 mg. of 20% is twice as strong.
- The reason that brands use 10% far more often is that 20% is a lot more expensive - but going back to the capsule space constraints, to deliver 100 mg. of Icariin would require 1,000 mg. of 10% and would leave less room for other ingredients - BUT the average consumer would actually think it was higher dosed than the 500 mg. at 20%.
- Going back to the average consumer and also why a lot of libido products don't work to begin with, many brands use Icariins rather than Icariin and Icariins offer little to nothing in terms of effectiveness and are super cheap - but since consumers don't know the difference, brands can use those and reduce product costs significantly.