PFlow's TRT + PED Chat & workout Logs via Tonal + dumbbells

[PFlowReborn]

Happy Friday! Snuck this in today getting strength and endurance back a bit. Could have done more, but time limited between meetings. More about diet and new adaptation and current e-scale stats next.

 

[akboom87]

Glad to see you getting back in the workouts! Keep at it man.

 

[PFlowReborn]

Glad to see you getting back in the workouts! Keep at it man.

Thanks, I think may need to just employ more body splits. This week was 4x times I made it to the gym. Maybe at 43, I need more frequent workouts where I'm not going for too many exercises at once, so I can manage daily energy and work too..

Hows life been treating ya?

Other theme for me is "not letting perfect be the enemy of the good work" with kids and other responsibilities, activities.. sometimes have to be flexible/adaptable sometimes it a morning workout or lunch or split between meetings or even after they're all in bed. And do best at nutrition but not killing myself on large mass gain cycles.

Going for more athletic strong, then lean and some hypertrophy later focus.

 

[akboom87]

Thanks, I think may need to just employ more body splits. This week was 4x times I made it to the gym. Maybe at 43, I need more frequent workouts where I'm not going for too many exercises at once, so I can manage daily energy and work too..

Hows life been treating ya?

Other theme for me is "not letting perfect be the enemy of the good work" with kids and other responsibilities, activities.. sometimes have to be flexible/adaptable sometimes it a morning workout or lunch or split between meetings or even after they're all in bed. And do best at nutrition but not killing myself on large mass gain cycles.

Going for more athletic strong, then lean and some hypertrophy later focus.

Can’t complain, busy are little one is almost 8 months old and just seems to be going by so fast.

same boat I like to have a perfect plan and everything in order but that never happens so I roll with the punches and do what I can, when I can!

 

[PFlowReborn]

Well not too shabby, for 43.. now that my body/spine/joints are getting primed again.. figured I should step on the Ol' Renpho e-scale and at 197lbs and only 14.4% body fat at 6'2" height.

Oh.yeah this year to aid energy/mobility and fight gyno sides I am adding EQ to TRT. This has always been a good cycle for me, slow & steady gains just gotta watch the hemocrit. I have clean doctor ran labs as baseline again and saved a full body building lab set for mid cycle blood work to check.

Man my PED war chest has all these nice prepped cycles, lol glad I got back on TRT and know how to restore Testicular Volume.with Clomid and Floracil 50 no sides, no gyno. Yeet!

I'll start with plain Test and EQ, but maybe by spring time to run MSten again.

 

[PFlowReborn]

Alright, body is starting to wake up. Able to finish 3-4x sets of 10-12 reps now, whereas in the first week or so back sets were completed but reps/weights were decreasing by 3rd set. TRT+ (minor test blast, 200mg/week) is also keeping energy levels up - even at night.

Some reduced sleep, because I'm pushing myself after job + workout + family fed/homework done and in bed... Feels good to get caught up, but can only run so many days well on 5-6hrs of sleep, need that 8-hours more, especially with a do-more and be-more life.

Midday shoulders workout split between breakfast, lunch breaks... between meetings, sick kiddo at home. Getting better at balancing the triangle slowly.

Best rice cooker and pressure cooker combo = super food cheat. Can make rice + soup or stew or roast beef in 30-45min (plus can also make oatmeal and other things, even has a sautee mode that works well). Like stuff that would take hours = super quick with a pressure cooker.

Yes, I like the Comfee brand, but you could get the Instant Pot versions for the same 1+2 quick + healthy cooked foods punch.
1.) Best e-pressure cooker = Invalid Link Removed
2.) Best e-rice maker = Invalid Link Removed

And getting "grill rescue" super brushes & sponges to make the Blackstone cleanup faster. If I can bulk grill /griddle on weekends and prep rice and soups quick in the week, I can finally solve the food intake demon for even a moderate cycle I get SOO hungry, then resort to stuff I shouldn't (prevents fat loss)

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[akboom87]

Yeah prepping and having it there makes a huge difference. I am pretty lucky that my wife is staying home to raise are little one at least until school age, but she does a lot of the prep and even weighs everything out and makes notes of all the portions.

 

[Hyde]

I often throw a few washed sweet or regular potatoes on top of my rice in my Instapot. I still cook it on the rice setting, but leave it on in the warmer mode post for at least another hour and the potatoes are cooked. I can also add handfuls of spinach, peppers, veggies if I like for same result. Or skip rice and just do potatoes and/or veggies same way on the rice setting.

Meanwhile I brown some ground turkey/chicken/beef on the stovetop, or bake a tray of fish on foil for fast cleanup that I can eat on for several meals. Once a week I grill 5-6lbs of chicken breast for the wife that I’ve trimmed, butterflied and marinated. I will have a few pieces of this through the week.

I also keep big cans of tuna in water I can quickly drain if no meat is prepared, as well as a bag of frozen peeled, cooked medium shrimp. I weigh a bowl, fill it with water to soak at least half an hour, and can come back to drain it & toss it into some hot rice or pasta when it’s time to eat.

Like you mentioned, you can quickly cook meat in an instapot if you don’t want to plan a crockpot (these are equally easy, just whether you want it sooner or later).

 

[MrKleen73]

@Hyde I might have to try that potatoes on top of the rice thing once food options open up a bit. Are you cutting them or just putting the whole potato in there in one piece?

 

[Hyde]

@Hyde I might have to try that potatoes on top of the rice thing once food options open up a bit. Are you cutting them or just putting the whole potato in there in one piece?

Whole potato works fine if you leave it in the warm mode for 1-2 hours. Just use a tad more water for the rice. I often throw a sweet potato in for my son when I cook my rice.

Got that years back from Chase Irons; he made a vid about doing his entire day of food in one Instapot on rice setting for the vertical diet. Made little raw ground beef meatballs that sat on top as well.

 

[MrKleen73]

Whole potato works fine if you leave it in the warm mode for 1-2 hours. Just use a tad more water for the rice. I often throw a sweet potato in for my son when I cook my rice.

Got that years back from Chase Irons; he made a vid about doing his entire day of food in one Instapot on rice setting for the vertical diet. Made little raw ground beef meatballs that sat on top as well.

That's ingenuity for you!

 

[PFlowReborn]

Yeah prepping and having it there makes a huge difference. I am pretty lucky that my wife is staying home to raise are little one at least until school age, but she does a lot of the prep and even weighs everything out and makes notes of all the portions.

You're lucky, I have gave my wife same opportunity... Yeah she makes good food, but not so prepared on that front.

Whole potato works fine if you leave it in the warm mode for 1-2 hours. Just use a tad more water for the rice. I often throw a sweet potato in for my son when I cook my rice.

Got that years back from Chase Irons; he made a vid about doing his entire day of food in one Instapot on rice setting for the vertical diet. Made little raw ground beef meatballs that sat on top as well.

That's handy going to try that myself.

Got chest and triceps in between meetings today. Slow going but the spine is almost done loosen up.

Can't wait for Freak Athlete Nordic hyper GHD to get here end of November since I was early preorder.

 

[PFlowReborn]

Alright, had 1:15 hours between meetings and finally got a more or less full back/biceps workout including excellent pump.

Strength-endurance and energy finally starting to catch up.

Started old-man recovery stack here past two days with TRT base.

 

[PFlowReborn]

Gotta say - pretty excited about getting a nice preacher curl station. My second piece of Titan Fitness gear - Invalid Link Removed.

Able to get this since in a couple weeks the Freak Athlete Nordic/Hyper/GHD bench arrives.. and allows me to collapse / improv my core & posterior chain training exercises available, upping gear quality, and saving precious garage gym space... can't wait for that to get here.

 

[akboom87]

Gotta say - pretty excited about getting a nice preacher curl station. My second piece of Titan Fitness gear - Invalid Link Removed.

Able to get this since in a couple weeks the Freak Athlete Nordic/Hyper/GHD bench arrives.. and allows me to collapse / improv my core & posterior chain training exercises available, upping gear quality, and saving precious garage gym space... can't wait for that to get here.

That looks like a nice setup and pretty good price!

 

[Hyde]

If you had bought a regular GHR, the pad also functions as a preacher curl pad already…

 

[PFlowReborn]

If you had bought a regular GHR, the pad also functions as a preacher curl pad already…

Yeah that's okay I wanted a dedicated preacher station and with my spine and knees I need the best Nordic/Hyper (GHR is a bonus) station that saves my footprint.

After 5-6 months out, now having got some sessions in where I'm pausing on reps on various back and shoulders exercises just getting my neck/spine/joints to stretch out fully... Feel way better and Overall posture is improving too.

i think Freak athlete could be used for curls perhaps too, will verify but ok with the dedicated station.

 

[Segansational]

Gotta say - pretty excited about getting a nice preacher curl station. My second piece of Titan Fitness gear - Invalid Link Removed.

Able to get this since in a couple weeks the Freak Athlete Nordic/Hyper/GHD bench arrives.. and allows me to collapse / improv my core & posterior chain training exercises available, upping gear quality, and saving precious garage gym space... can't wait for that to get here.

Nice, Preacher curls are definitely one of my favorite biceps blasters. I have a preacher pad for my cable machine, but I'd rather have a free weight set up. Enjoy!

 

[PFlowReborn]

Alright, alright - got a nice Chest and Triceps morning workout ~1hr before morning meetings.

Strength and energy is def coming back.

 

[MrKleen73]

Good stuff Sir!

 

[PFlowReborn]

Back and bis day felt pretty good today. Strength coming back nicely now. Solid pump going right now.

Just got two Shark Matrix AI wet/dry vac robots. One for each 1st and 2nd floor. If I can automate most floor cleaning out it TX house life, that would be a boost for time saving when my inlaws go abroad and we've got less help with the kiddos.

 

[PFlowReborn]

Man that felt really good, some nice press/curl/row action. Trenavar is serving me well with TRT, could push shoulders and more biceps today. Used the bench in 85-deg mode (nice adjustable seat, no gap) and could do a split Arnold press sorta thing with the Tonal (shoulder press sets + back against seat/wall bicep curls = can't cheat good pump.

Love shoulder day to relieve tension in shoulders. Power tower (pullups, dips, pushups, and core) is almost built + preacher curl bench this weekend. Freak Athlete nordic-hyper bench here 1st week of December. Then the gym transformation shall be done with the 'wall-hangars for bars and tonal T-lock accessories. Time to get the spine + knees more gym strong too.

Only had 1hr to squeeze this before meetings, maybe go downstairs and do shoulder raises and shrugs later today.

 

[PFlowReborn]

Man total bummer reading about Rocket.. A fellow Pennsylvania guy and we had the same love for Focus ST cars he said he loved to race on those.

Good gent, helped me a few times when I was mentally down. and I was blown away that he would still come here to post and train even with bone leukemia.

Just looking up bone marrow transplant survival rates (not great). I wonder if he knew his time was short and just decided to keep going strong until the end.

 

[Segansational]

Man total bummer reading about Rocket.. A fellow Pennsylvania guy and we had the same love for Focus ST cars he said he loved to race on those.

Good gent, helped me a few times when I was mentally down. and I was blown away that he would still come here to post and train even with bone leukemia.

Just looking up bone marrow transplant survival rates (not great). I wonder if he knew his time was short and just decided to keep going strong until the end.

Yeah, so sad to hear. He was a good dude and will be missed by AM for sure.

 

[MrKleen73]

Man total bummer reading about Rocket.. A fellow Pennsylvania guy and we had the same love for Focus ST cars he said he loved to race on those.

Good gent, helped me a few times when I was mentally down. and I was blown away that he would still come here to post and train even with bone leukemia.

Just looking up bone marrow transplant survival rates (not great). I wonder if he knew his time was short and just decided to keep going strong until the end.

Unfortunately he got a severe infection while waiting to get his transplant while his white blood cell count was at zero, I don't think any of us are sure at this point if he ever got healthy enough again after that to get the transplant done. The family has been pretty tight lipped understandably we are not one of their priorities while they are mourning.

 

[PFlowReborn]

Well on a brighter note gym transformation post Thanksgiving/Black Friday is nearly done. Say hello to new Champ's Power Tower and Titan Preacher curl station.

These are gonna help so much and finally in ~10 days got that Freak Athlete Nordic Hyper bench ahh time to get the spine and core strong along with the gains.

Little annoyed at the inner tube surface rust on the Titan Fitness one, geez is the warehouse in a marine location? Took a slow boat from China. They're thay four star gear company because I didn't want to shell out 2x for Body Solid or another slightly higher end preacher. Sok nothing WD40 specialist and Rust Oleum can't fix.

The power tower has these nice low grips that allow for decline pushup and or a hamstring stretch if you bridge and walk feet in. Excited to do the hanging abs routines, leg kicks via the dip handles. Pullup bar was better position than the other one I returned. Yay its a keeper.

Just gotta load the tool chest and hang bars and ropes and bands on the wall and it's finally settled.

 

[MrKleen73]

Awesome man, it is all coming together nicely!

 

[PFlowReborn]

Awesome man, it is all coming together nicely!

Thanks Kleen, man gotta say you knocked the summer transformation out and wish I could have stayed the course to join ya on that, in was doing good and had i been able to hit it hard... anyway now I gotta redo dropping the love handles again and getting strong again.

Side note, due to persistent joint/spine issues decided to finally give the NPP a spin with TRT here. Just 150mg/week to start.. The only gyno issue I had was post Tren Ace years back when I was over cycling anyway... Gyno has been gone since.

My estradiol has been tanked low, almost non existent even on TRT, so hopefully no gyno risk if no prolactin issue. Have bloodwork panels on standby for mid cycle if needed..

 

[PFlowReborn]

Thanks Kleen, man gotta say you knocked the summer transformation out and wish I could have stayed the course to join ya on that, in was doing good and had i been able to hit it hard... anyway now I gotta redo dropping the love handles again and getting strong again.

Side note, due to persistent joint/spine issues decided to finally give the NPP a spin with TRT here. Just 150mg/week to start.. The only gyno issue I had was post Tren Ace years back when I was over cycling anyway... Gyno has been gone since.

My estradiol has been tanked low, almost non existent even on TRT, so hopefully no gyno risk if no prolactin issue. Have bloodwork panels on standby for mid cycle if needed..

That said.. gotta get back at it, got decent chest and triceps workouts in this morning with wife and kids at church.

 

[akboom87]

Nice looking additions. Yeah the rust would bug me too but like you said can be taken care of easily. Pretty impressed that is a nice looking preacher station. Solid workout too, getting after it, keep it up!

 

[Segansational]

Nice looking additions. Yeah the rust would bug me too but like you said can be taken care of easily. Pretty impressed that is a nice looking preacher station. Solid workout too, getting after it, keep it up!

Was going to say the same thing! Those additions to the gym look secksy! But weird about that internal rust. I keep picking up some used weights and thinking I'm going to do something to clean em up, but I never do. LOL.

 

[MrKleen73]

Thanks Kleen, man gotta say you knocked the summer transformation out and wish I could have stayed the course to join ya on that, in was doing good and had i been able to hit it hard... anyway now I gotta redo dropping the love handles again and getting strong again.

Side note, due to persistent joint/spine issues decided to finally give the NPP a spin with TRT here. Just 150mg/week to start.. The only gyno issue I had was post Tren Ace years back when I was over cycling anyway... Gyno has been gone since.

My estradiol has been tanked low, almost non existent even on TRT, so hopefully no gyno risk if no prolactin issue. Have bloodwork panels on standby for mid cycle if needed..

Thanks for the compliments brother! Yeah, I would just make sure you have some P-5-P, running it at 200mg a day should do the trick to keep prolactin under control.

Was going to say the same thing! Those additions to the gym look secksy! But weird about that internal rust. I keep picking up some used weights and thinking I'm going to do something to clean em up, but I never do. LOL.

Haha! I have told myself I was going to clean up and maybe even paint all of my weights black but it is such an undertaking I have resolved myself to just using them as they are. If they get rusted then I will take care of that but just for not being as pretty to look at as I would like is not enough for me to take on all that effort. LOL

 

[PFlowReborn]

Nice looking additions. Yeah the rust would bug me too but like you said can be taken care of easily. Pretty impressed that is a nice looking preacher station. Solid workout too, getting after it, keep it up!

Thanks much, finally got to try it preacher out today. Works great with either Tonal or regular curl bar.

Was going to say the same thing! Those additions to the gym look secksy! But weird about that internal rust. I keep picking up some used weights and thinking I'm going to do something to clean em up, but I never do. LOL.

Thanks much. I think I might file warranty and send them pics and see if they will send replacementl, but I'm almost thinking it's not worth swapping out hassle.

Haha well if the rust is external or self limiting surface rust, meh... No worries, I just don't like it in the tube there.

Thanks for the compliments brother! Yeah, I would just make sure you have some P-5-P, running it at 200mg a day should do the trick to keep prolactin under control.
Haha! I have told myself I was going to clean up and maybe even paint all of my weights black but it is such an undertaking I have resolved myself to just using them as they are. If they get rusted then I will take care of that but just for not being as pretty to look at as I would like is not enough for me to take on all that effort. LOL

Ah this a correct form of B6 vitamin, but it seems some ladies are taking it in reviews to increase their prolactin is too low?

Nutricost P5P Vitamin B6 Supplement 100mg, 240 Capsules (Pyridoxal-5-Phosphate) - Vegetarian Friendly, Non-GMO, Gluten Free Invalid Link Removed

Does this regulate it if it gets too high, aren't I looking to cap prolactin. Of which no sides so far after NPP inject with TRT last Sunday. Feel good, no nip issues yet.

Check out the new wide lat pull down bar that works with dual Pulley (tonal compatible).

 

[akboom87]

That tension on the preacher I bet is pretty consistent with the cable set up.

 

[PFlowReborn]

That tension on the preacher I bet is pretty consistent with the cable set up.

Feels great actually. I need to drill.a hole to raise the pad pole up a bit, but it's good preacher for under $200 assuming you get one that arrived dry on the boat.

Another way that is great is lying on floor bicep curl, same as standing on a wall with ez curl and the constant tension gets a great pump with glycerol in the workout drink.

 

[akboom87]

Feels great actually. I need to drill.a hole to raise the pad pole up a bit, but it's good preacher for under $200 assuming you get one that arrived dry on the boat.

Another way that is great is lying on floor bicep curl, same as standing on a wall with ez curl and the constant tension gets a great pump with glycerol in the workout drink.

Yeah I meant that tension in a good way! Guessing with the way the arms move you can set up and do skull crushers with the curl bar attachment?

 

[PFlowReborn]

Yeah I meant that tension in a good way! Guessing with the way the arms move you can set up and do skull crushers with the curl bar attachment?

Oh yeah I know the tension is good! Tonal it really shines for that and with dual pulley bars and T-lock adapters... it's the flat wall equivalent to one of these Free motion cable cross trainers.. anything you can do with dumbbells you can arguably do better with more time under tension with one of these.

Tonal is half the cost and fits on my garage wall, if I was richer and had a bigger house of just get the dual pulley Free motion.

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[MrKleen73]

Nice additions and 2 caps a day of P5P 1 Am and 1 PM should do the trick safely. I wouldn't play, or wait around to see when the those sides kick in. You already have existing gyno and I know you don't want it to get any worse since you have brought it down a good bit recently.

 

[PFlowReborn]

Nice additions and 2 caps a day of P5P 1 Am and 1 PM should do the trick safely. I wouldn't play, or wait around to see when the those sides kick in. You already have existing gyno and I know you don't want it to get any worse since you have brought it down a good bit recently.

Yep P5P is what the Inhibit P from SNS is based on, so luckily got that on hand. I'll go break that out here, got some more coming from Nutricost.

Got a pretty good mid-morning shoulders routine in between meetings, some goblet squats. Tomorrow might finally break out the leg cuffs and do quad extensions. I need more quads.

 

[PFlowReborn]

Ahh snap - getting close, got the message from Freak Athelete today.

"The wait is nearly over! Earlybird Nordic Hypers start shipping out tomorrow. You’ll receive an email with tracking info 1-2 days after your order ships out. The delivery time is 3-5 business days. We will ship them out in the order we received them with all Hypers expected to ship by Friday, December 8.
Depending on when you ordered, this is up to 8 days later than the originally promised November 30 shipment date. We faced some supply chain issues over the past week, but all Nordic Hypers are now safely in the warehouse. I know this has been a LONG wait - many of you pre-ordered as far back as July!"

And I scored a Silver Back 54 Inground basketball hoop for the driveway in front of the gym to teach the kiddos how to play once I get more knee strength again. Black Friday deal.
Invalid Link Removed

 

[akboom87]

Nice, be curious to see how that looks when you get it set up.

hoops in the yard that should be a blast and make great memories!

 

[PFlowReborn]

Well man the combo of TRT + lifting, with increased hunger and the warmup cycle of Trenavar and DPlex, with a little EQ in the TRT... then switching from that to TRT + NPP, about two weeks ago, seems to have amplified hunger and strength more...

Wow shot up +11lbs, from 197lbs > 208lbs also since starting. Feel fine, no sides. Not overeating, just eating meals + shakes and snacks to make sure I'm not hungry and the mass just came on.

 

[MrKleen73]

Dang, nice gains so far, don't let that increase in hunger make you eat too much though unless you are truly massing.

 

[PFlowReborn]

Dang, nice gains so far, don't let that increase in hunger make you eat too much though unless you are truly massing.

Thanks I think it accidentally turned into a gain, get strong cycle. I didn't have enough stamina to execute a cut on the front end anyway... Coming back from extended low T and out of gym was rough going first few weeks. Better now.

I think by increasing activity and fixing diet the core should lean up without me having to do crazy diets (for now).. I see y'all doing all that work on restricted calories.. I know that's my future at some point. Hoping some driveway basketball this spring and summer will help shed by run and jump more too.

 

[MrKleen73]

Thanks I think it accidentally turned into a gain, get strong cycle. I didn't have enough stamina to execute a cut on the front end anyway... Coming back from extended low T and out of gym was rough going first few weeks. Better now.

I think by increasing activity and fixing diet the core should lean up without me having to do crazy diets (for now).. I see y'all doing all that work on restricted calories.. I know that's my future at some point. Hoping some driveway basketball this spring and summer will help shed by run and jump more too.

Eating around maintenance will help you lean up a good bit while on cycle and shouldn't lower your ability to lift. Just something to consider. You don't want to have to try and clean up after while not "ON" unless you at least intend to do a 1-2 month maintenance after to let the body know you want to keep that muscle you just built before going into a deficit.

Also my deficit is gone. I am about 1200 calories over what was my maintenance now @ 2 weeks into the bulk. I just lost 1.5 lbs overnight too. My metabolism is definitely revving right now. Of course I do 25 minutes of moderately intense cardio 5 times a week now too which he helping push that metabolism along.

 

[PFlowReborn]

Eating around maintenance will help you lean up a good bit while on cycle and shouldn't lower your ability to lift. Just something to consider. You don't want to have to try and clean up after while not "ON" unless you at least intend to do a 1-2 month maintenance after to let the body know you want to keep that muscle you just built before going into a deficit.

Also my deficit is gone. I am about 1200 calories over what was my maintenance now @ 2 weeks into the bulk. I just lost 1.5 lbs overnight too. My metabolism is definitely revving right now. Of course I do 25 minutes of moderately intense cardio 5 times a week now too which he helping push that metabolism along.

Good point about eating ~maintenance level. Man I got to get my cardio going too. Got that new Echelon stride treadmill to pair with the rowing machine. Now with some NPP in the blood my knees should enjoy the run again.

Pulldowns / rows / and preacher & lying isolation curls today at lunch session between meetings

 

[PFlowReborn]

Still here...short work trip to Houston back Thursday.

Finally Freak Athlete sent the tracking for my Nordic-Hyper bench! Gym regear almost complete.

Basketball hoop also hopefully up before Xmas.

 

[PFlowReborn]

Chiming back in with a solid rows and curls back and biceps pump day with Muscle Addiction Pump Addict pre workout and glycerpump too.

Knocked this out before work meeting this morning, and had a heck of a pump going on arms and upper back.

Love me some blue raz lemonade Pump addict.. @sns8778 good stuff. Truly a one rounded scoop pre with strong stim, but excellent focus and easy on digestive system so far.

With enough water and ice is pretty refreshing flavor actually.

 

[sns8778]

Chiming back in with a solid rows and curls back and biceps pump day with Muscle Addiction Pump Addict pre workout and glycerpump too.

Knocked this out before work meeting this morning, and had a heck of a pump going on arms and upper back.

Love me some blue raz lemonade Pump addict.. @sns8778 good stuff. Truly a one rounded scoop pre with strong stim, but excellent focus and easy on digestive system so far.

With enough water and ice is pretty refreshing flavor actually.

I'm glad that you're liking Pump Addict Ultra Hardcore. I think its really the most underrated pre-workout around - great energy, pumps, and a very good clean focus type energy.

I'm glad you like the flavor too. I think its extremely good especially to have a packed ingredient profile.

 

[Smont]

How many days a week are you doing back and bi's? Im catching up on your thread and i see some Vertical pulls in one workout and horizontal pulls in another workout. So im assuming at least twice? The reason i ask is because up until i got sick a week ago i was on a tear for back gains, specifically lats We're getting wider and wider. The difference was more frequency and volume. I hadnt noticed at first but i was doing like 40 sets a week for back. Like 15 sets of vertical pulls, 15 sets of Horizontal pulls and Every time I went to the boxing gym. I was doing either five sets of body weight, pull ups or five sets of weeded pull ups as part of my warm up. At no point Did I ever feel like I was doing too much and it was just working like magic. Most of it happened by accidents and i didnt even realize that I had been doing that much. This wasn't even a planned thing for the most part. Some days i would just randomly do some extra pullups for no reason.

Obviously We can't train every single body part like that all at the same time or will be killing ourselves with 40 sets per muscle and we would burn out