Classic Kleen - The Road To Competition Fall 2024

[Hyde]

Same exact concern and can't get over it lol. Apparently the cardio/endurance benefits are pretty awesome, but I haven't tried it.

On a practical level, they took mice who are genetically bred to be tumorous and gave them the equivalent of a human taking over 50mg for virtually their entire lifespan. 2.5x the top dose most people use, with no breaks, indefinitely.

It is worth considering that other drugs do go through this test and have to pass, so I am not being totally dismissive of any risk. But it is at least fair to say here that the dose probably makes the poison, if it is harmful at all in humans (all non-medical, short-term anecdotal bloodwork we have seen is that it is very positive for health).

I think the attitude most people take who use it, is to moderate exposure. Use it for stints that make the most sense. When you finish the bottle, take a long break from it. And 5-10mg is plenty for the health benefits.

GW is also effective totally acutely as a PED. You don’t need to use it daily to get any more benefit out of it for an endurance event than taking the single dose prior to activity. 20mg once a week before your most taxing training/race/etc.

 

[gphagan1]

Rather than trying to re-explain it all again here, I have quoted a post from my SR9009 log a few years back. This was the study / review that reassured me that it was okay to user PPAR agonists, and why it would cause cancer in rats/mice but not humans.

On a practical level, they took mice who are genetically bred to be tumorous and gave them the equivalent of a human taking over 50mg for virtually their entire lifespan. 2.5x the top dose most people use, with no breaks, indefinitely.

It is worth considering that other drugs do go through this test and have to pass, so I am not being totally dismissive of any risk. But it is at least fair to say here that the dose probably makes the poison, if it is harmful at all in humans (all non-medical, short-term anecdotal bloodwork we have seen is that it is very positive for health).

I think the attitude most people take who use it, is to moderate exposure. Use it for stints that make the most sense. When you finish the bottle, take a long break from it. And 5-10mg is plenty for the health benefits.

GW is also effective totally acutely as a PED. You don’t need to use it daily to get any more benefit out of it for an endurance event than taking the single dose prior to activity. 20mg once a week before your most taxing training/race/etc.

This is exactly what I have tried to explain to others about GW that the trials were with rats already predisposed to cancer with huge doses, and that it didn’t equate to the doses we use. Now I understand if someone is predisposed to cancer, but if not, GW is so good at keeping lipids in order and increasing endurance. I always use it on a cycle, and never think twice. Believe me it’s much better to keep blood work and blood pressure in order to prevent a heart attack or stroke, than to worry about GW causing cancer in the future.

 

[MrKleen73]

Agreed on the GW! I guess kind of obviously.

Here is my workout from yesterday.

Shoulders & Triceps (Thurs)
Thursday, Nov 23, 2023 at 12:17pm

Shoulder Press (Machine Plates)
Set 1: 65 lbs x 10 @ 10 rpe +5 lbs from last week
Set 2: 40 lbs x 12 @ 10 rpe +5 lbs from last week

Standing Lateral Raise
Set 1: 30 lbs x 20 @ 9 rpe
Set 2: 40 lbs x 15 @ 9.5 rpe
Set 3: 50 lbs x 10 @ 9.5 rpe
Set 4: 30 lbs x 19 @ 10 rpe - I had to fight for that extra rep!

Incline DB Rear Delt Swings
Set 1: 15 lbs x 20 @ 8 rpe
Set 2: 15 lbs x 20 @ 8.5 rpe
Set 3: 15 lbs x 20 @ 9.5 rpe Finished all this time, will go up.

Upright Row
Set 1: 95 lbs x 10 @ 8.5 rpe
Set 2: 55 lbs x 15 @ 8.5 rpe
Set 3: 55 lbs x 15 @ 9.5 rpe
Set 4: 55 lbs x 15 @ 10 rpe +2 reps from last time, will go up

Cross Cable Tricep Extension
Set 1: 40 lbs x 15 @ 8.5 rpe
Set 2: 40 lbs x 15 @ 10 rpe
Set 3: 40 lbs x 13 @ 10 rpe +1 rep from last week - Better execution this time made harder from the beginning.

PowerTec Dip Attachment
Set 1: 180 lbs x 20 @ 8 rpe
Set 2: 180 lbs x 17 @ 10 rpe - Down 1 rep from last week. Triceps were wrecked by the previous exercise and the shoulder press really got the triceps decently with the increase too.

All in all an excellent workout! I was pumped like a mofo!
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Back & Hamstrings (Friday)
Friday, Nov 24, 2023 at 9:36am

Seated Leg Curl (Machine)
Set 1: 75 lbs x 20 @ 9 rpe
Set 2: 80 lbs x 15 @ 10 rpe
Set 3: 85 lbs x 10 @ 9.5 rpe
Set 4: 55 lbs x 17 @ 10 rpe +1 rep

Rack Pull
Set 1: 355 lbs x 8 @ 8.5 rpe
Set 2: 325 lbs x 12 @ 10 rpe - Up 10lbs - These were extremely hard, especially since my straps were slipping. I am about to go ahead and order some versa grips or maybe one of the decent knockoffs. I think I can do more without grip issues.

Arsenal Wide grip Pronated Chest Supported Row
Set 1: 40 lbs x 8 @ 8.5 rpe - Started 5lbs heavier
Set 2: 40 lbs x 8 @ 9 rpe
Set 3: 40 lbs x 8 @ 10 rpe - 9th, and 10th rep just a little short will repeat weight.

Bent Over Row (Dumbbell)
Set 1: 45 lbs x 20 @ 10 rpe
Set 2: 45 lbs x 16 @ 10 rpe - 1 less than last week but f

Pullover (Machine) 1 set 2 rest pause attempts
Set 1: 145 lbs x 9 @ 10 rpe - Up 10lbs
Set 2: 145 lbs x 4 @ 10 rpe
Set 3: 145 lbs x 2 @ 10 rpe

I think I am going to tell my coach I am going to go to the RP style training for my pressing. I don't think the going to failure is suiting my right shoulder well. Probably suggest instead of failure I just do 1-2 rest pauses around 1RIR / RPE9 on those failure sets. Will still get me more hard reps for the increased intensity without putting me in any real risk or really increasing total volume that much compared to adding a whole set or something.

It's funny, I probably ate 3500-4000 calories and only gained .2lbs yesterday. I woke up looking a lot like my pumped picture, more full and tight. I have pushed a little harder today to get calories up, I had my usuals breakfast but added the honey back into my drink, then my post workout meal, then had a whole 12 inch napolitana pizza by myself, and 3 piece's of another, which isn't anywhere as big as it sounds, considering how thin that type of crust is and how little cheese is on there and all fresh ingredients. The calories actually weren't to crazy. I washed that down with a 50g protein shake right when I got home to get protein up. Then we will be having a big dinner, probably fajitas. I will have another piece of pie, another shake for dessert and probably pretty much call it on this refeed.
Hopefully I will see a bit of movement on the scale but if not then he will know he can refeed me hard when he thinks I need it.

 

[gphagan1]

Agreed on the GW! I guess kind of obviously.

Here is my workout from yesterday.

Shoulders & Triceps (Thurs)
Thursday, Nov 23, 2023 at 12:17pm

Shoulder Press (Machine Plates)
Set 1: 65 lbs x 10 @ 10 rpe +5 lbs from last week
Set 2: 40 lbs x 12 @ 10 rpe +5 lbs from last week

Standing Lateral Raise
Set 1: 30 lbs x 20 @ 9 rpe
Set 2: 40 lbs x 15 @ 9.5 rpe
Set 3: 50 lbs x 10 @ 9.5 rpe
Set 4: 30 lbs x 19 @ 10 rpe - I had to fight for that extra rep!

Incline DB Rear Delt Swings
Set 1: 15 lbs x 20 @ 8 rpe
Set 2: 15 lbs x 20 @ 8.5 rpe
Set 3: 15 lbs x 20 @ 9.5 rpe Finished all this time, will go up.

Upright Row
Set 1: 95 lbs x 10 @ 8.5 rpe
Set 2: 55 lbs x 15 @ 8.5 rpe
Set 3: 55 lbs x 15 @ 9.5 rpe
Set 4: 55 lbs x 15 @ 10 rpe +2 reps from last time, will go up

Cross Cable Tricep Extension
Set 1: 40 lbs x 15 @ 8.5 rpe
Set 2: 40 lbs x 15 @ 10 rpe
Set 3: 40 lbs x 13 @ 10 rpe +1 rep from last week - Better execution this time made harder from the beginning.

PowerTec Dip Attachment
Set 1: 180 lbs x 20 @ 8 rpe
Set 2: 180 lbs x 17 @ 10 rpe - Down 1 rep from last week. Triceps were wrecked by the previous exercise and the shoulder press really got the triceps decently with the increase too.

All in all an excellent workout! I was pumped like a mofo!
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Back & Hamstrings (Friday)
Friday, Nov 24, 2023 at 9:36am

Seated Leg Curl (Machine)
Set 1: 75 lbs x 20 @ 9 rpe
Set 2: 80 lbs x 15 @ 10 rpe
Set 3: 85 lbs x 10 @ 9.5 rpe
Set 4: 55 lbs x 17 @ 10 rpe +1 rep

Rack Pull
Set 1: 355 lbs x 8 @ 8.5 rpe
Set 2: 325 lbs x 12 @ 10 rpe - Up 10lbs - These were extremely hard, especially since my straps were slipping. I am about to go ahead and order some versa grips or maybe one of the decent knockoffs. I think I can do more without grip issues.

Arsenal Wide grip Pronated Chest Supported Row
Set 1: 40 lbs x 8 @ 8.5 rpe - Started 5lbs heavier
Set 2: 40 lbs x 8 @ 9 rpe
Set 3: 40 lbs x 8 @ 10 rpe - 9th, and 10th rep just a little short will repeat weight.

Bent Over Row (Dumbbell)
Set 1: 45 lbs x 20 @ 10 rpe
Set 2: 45 lbs x 16 @ 10 rpe - 1 less than last week but f

Pullover (Machine) 1 set 2 rest pause attempts
Set 1: 145 lbs x 9 @ 10 rpe - Up 10lbs
Set 2: 145 lbs x 4 @ 10 rpe
Set 3: 145 lbs x 2 @ 10 rpe

I think I am going to tell my coach I am going to go to the RP style training for my pressing. I don't think the going to failure is suiting my right shoulder well. Probably suggest instead of failure I just do 1-2 rest pauses around 1RIR / RPE9 on those failure sets. Will still get me more hard reps for the increased intensity without putting me in any real risk or really increasing total volume that much compared to adding a whole set or something.

It's funny, I probably ate 3500-4000 calories and only gained .2lbs yesterday. I woke up looking a lot like my pumped picture, more full and tight. I have pushed a little harder today to get calories up, I had my usuals breakfast but added the honey back into my drink, then my post workout meal, then had a whole 12 inch napolitana pizza by myself, and 3 piece's of another, which isn't anywhere as big as it sounds, considering how thin that type of crust is and how little cheese is on there and all fresh ingredients. The calories actually weren't to crazy. I washed that down with a 50g protein shake right when I got home to get protein up. Then we will be having a big dinner, probably fajitas. I will have another piece of pie, another shake for dessert and probably pretty much call it on this refeed.
Hopefully I will see a bit of movement on the scale but if not then he will know he can refeed me hard when he thinks I need it.

Oh yeah, definitely looking more full and tight. That’s exactly how you want to respond to the increase in calories. I think your coach will be pleased.

 

[MrKleen73]

Oh yeah, definitely looking more full and tight. That’s exactly how you want to respond to the increase in calories. I think your coach will be pleased.

Thank you Sir!

I just ordered some Cobra Grips, I had a pair before as a back up to my versa grips but someone or my dog walked off with one of them out of the garage. I also got 2 tubs of R1 Isolate, it has whey isolate and whey hydrolysate in it. Since my coach wants me using isolate if figured go for it. I am trying their Vanilla Butter Cake, and Mint Chocolate Chip flavors. I really enjoyed they're regular whey powders previously so figured I would give them a shot at $62 a pop for 5lbs. I don't need them just yet but better to get them on sale!!!! Plus the flavors sound pretty good. I love a good butter cake, and can get behind a mint chocolate chip for sure. I just hope it is done well.

 

[PolishHamm3r77]

Thank you Sir!

I just ordered some Cobra Grips, I had a pair before as a back up to my versa grips but someone or my dog walked off with one of them out of the garage. I also got 2 tubs of R1 Isolate, it has whey isolate and whey hydrolysate in it. Since my coach wants me using isolate if figured go for it. I am trying their Vanilla Butter Cake, and Mint Chocolate Chip flavors. I really enjoyed they're regular whey powders previously so figured I would give them a shot at $62 a pop for 5lbs. I don't need them just yet but better to get them on sale!!!! Plus the flavors sound pretty good. I love a good butter cake, and can get behind a mint chocolate chip for sure. I just hope it is done well.

R1 has some big deals. Daughters bf got 2 of the clean gainer almost 20lbs for around $50 I think. Why one whose veins pump soy need whey is an entirely diff story. Lmao #❄

 

[MrKleen73]

R1 has some big deals. Daughters bf got 2 of the clean gainer almost 20lbs for around $50 I think. Why one whose veins pump soy need whey is an entirely diff story. Lmao #

Maybe someday he will have the moment that changes him. If not then he definitely does not need soy protein powder!

Here is my session for today. I went later than normal because I had to wait to go get my car.

Arms (Saturday)
Saturday, Nov 25, 2023 at 7:52pm

SA Triceps Rope Extension
Set 1: 40 lbs x 20 @ 9 rpe
Set 2: 40 lbs x 15 @ 9.5 rpe
Set 3: 50 lbs x 10 @ 10 rpe
Set 4: 30 lbs x 18 @ 10 rpe - Up 2 reps

Triceps Kickback (Dumbbell)
Set 1: 20 lbs x 12 @ 8.5 rpe
Set 2: 20 lbs x 12 @ 10 rpe
Set 3: 20 lbs x 11 @ 10 rpe - Up 1 rep

EZ Bar Skullcrusher
Set 1: 60 lbs x 15 @ 9.5 rpe
Set 2: 60 lbs x 11 @ 10 rpe
Set 3: 60 lbs x 6 @ 10 rpe - Down a rep from the extra reps on previous exercises.

Diamond Push Up
Set 1: 9 reps
Set 2: 9 reps
Set 3: 6 reps - First set down 3 reps, 2nd set + 2 reps, set 3 + 1 rep so I broke even.

Triceps totally thrashed!!!

Single Arm Preacher Curl
Set 1: 25 lbs x 10 @ 8.5 rpe
Set 2: 25 lbs x 10 @ 10 rpe
Set 3: 25 lbs x 9 @ 10 rpe [Failure] - Up 1 rep

EZ Bar Biceps Curl
Set 1: 40 lbs x 15 @ 9 rpe
Set 2: 40 lbs x 15 @ 10 rpe
Set 3: 40 lbs x 12 @ 10 rpe [Failure] - Up 1 rep

Biceps Thrashed!
My biceps were burning so bad I wanted to quite 3 rep from the last one on the 2nd and 3rd sets, but I could still move that bastard! Brutal!

Okay just to have some fun I am going to post up comparison pictures of me Fasted TG morning, pumped TG afternoon, Fasted this morning, and about an hour after my arm workout still slightly pumped at a weight of 205.7. One of the pictures says 196.4 for TG morning but it is wrong it is 196.2 for a total gain of 6 fasted lbs, and 11.3 from the pumped pics from today.

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So the coach and I had a miscommunication, he wanted me to only have that one burger and fries this week, but accidentally put after any workout. So I had 2 extra refeed meals this week. The good news is he said my check ins look great and he thinks we are ready to start pushing calories for growth.

He also said my blood work looks good, but we need to keep an eye on my RBC, and Hematocrit. I will likely donate again in 8 weeks just to be safe.

I am looking forward to seeing my diet adjustments, and a his thoughts on some changes I asked him about regarding training to keep my right shoulder safe. The labrum is still a little inflamed and I want to nip it in the bud by backing off of the failure sets on pressing movements, and trying some 1-2RIR rest pause / myorep sets to replace them. If he doesn't suggest something else that is likely what I will do.

 

[gphagan1]

Maybe someday he will have the moment that changes him. If not then he definitely does not need soy protein powder!

Here is my session for today. I went later than normal because I had to wait to go get my car.

Arms (Saturday)
Saturday, Nov 25, 2023 at 7:52pm

SA Triceps Rope Extension
Set 1: 40 lbs x 20 @ 9 rpe
Set 2: 40 lbs x 15 @ 9.5 rpe
Set 3: 50 lbs x 10 @ 10 rpe
Set 4: 30 lbs x 18 @ 10 rpe - Up 2 reps

Triceps Kickback (Dumbbell)
Set 1: 20 lbs x 12 @ 8.5 rpe
Set 2: 20 lbs x 12 @ 10 rpe
Set 3: 20 lbs x 11 @ 10 rpe - Up 1 rep

EZ Bar Skullcrusher
Set 1: 60 lbs x 15 @ 9.5 rpe
Set 2: 60 lbs x 11 @ 10 rpe
Set 3: 60 lbs x 6 @ 10 rpe - Down a rep from the extra reps on previous exercises.

Diamond Push Up
Set 1: 9 reps
Set 2: 9 reps
Set 3: 6 reps - First set down 3 reps, 2nd set + 2 reps, set 3 + 1 rep so I broke even.

Triceps totally thrashed!!!

Single Arm Preacher Curl
Set 1: 25 lbs x 10 @ 8.5 rpe
Set 2: 25 lbs x 10 @ 10 rpe
Set 3: 25 lbs x 9 @ 10 rpe [Failure] - Up 1 rep

EZ Bar Biceps Curl
Set 1: 40 lbs x 15 @ 9 rpe
Set 2: 40 lbs x 15 @ 10 rpe
Set 3: 40 lbs x 12 @ 10 rpe [Failure] - Up 1 rep

Biceps Thrashed!
My biceps were burning so bad I wanted to quite 3 rep from the last one on the 2nd and 3rd sets, but I could still move that bastard! Brutal!

Okay just to have some fun I am going to post up comparison pictures of me Fasted TG morning, pumped TG afternoon, Fasted this morning, and about an hour after my arm workout still slightly pumped at a weight of 205.7. One of the pictures says 196.4 for TG morning but it is wrong it is 196.2 for a total gain of 6 fasted lbs, and 11.3 from the pumped pics from today.

Invalid Link Removed
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So the coach and I had a miscommunication, he wanted me to only have that one burger and fries this week, but accidentally put after any workout. So I had 2 extra refeed meals this week. The good news is he said my check ins look great and he thinks we are ready to start pushing calories for growth.

He also said my blood work looks good, but we need to keep an eye on my RBC, and Hematocrit. I will likely donate again in 8 weeks just to be safe.

I am looking forward to seeing my diet adjustments, and a his thoughts on some changes I asked him about regarding training to keep my right shoulder safe. The labrum is still a little inflamed and I want to nip it in the bud by backing off of the failure sets on pressing movements, and trying some 1-2RIR rest pause / myorep sets to replace them. If he doesn't suggest something else that is likely what I will do.

Ahh that makes sense on the refeed with the burger and fries. I thought he was just experimenting to see how your body would react, but at least he could see you actually reacted well. On your pictures, that’s a good way to see the pump transformation throughout the day, and looks like most of the water went into the muscle, and the abs are still popping.
Now the fun begins, time for the gain train.

 

[PolishHamm3r77]

Maybe someday he will have the moment that changes him. If not then he definitely does not need soy protein powder!

Here is my session for today. I went later than normal because I had to wait to go get my car.

Arms (Saturday)
Saturday, Nov 25, 2023 at 7:52pm

SA Triceps Rope Extension
Set 1: 40 lbs x 20 @ 9 rpe
Set 2: 40 lbs x 15 @ 9.5 rpe
Set 3: 50 lbs x 10 @ 10 rpe
Set 4: 30 lbs x 18 @ 10 rpe - Up 2 reps

Triceps Kickback (Dumbbell)
Set 1: 20 lbs x 12 @ 8.5 rpe
Set 2: 20 lbs x 12 @ 10 rpe
Set 3: 20 lbs x 11 @ 10 rpe - Up 1 rep

EZ Bar Skullcrusher
Set 1: 60 lbs x 15 @ 9.5 rpe
Set 2: 60 lbs x 11 @ 10 rpe
Set 3: 60 lbs x 6 @ 10 rpe - Down a rep from the extra reps on previous exercises.

Diamond Push Up
Set 1: 9 reps
Set 2: 9 reps
Set 3: 6 reps - First set down 3 reps, 2nd set + 2 reps, set 3 + 1 rep so I broke even.

Triceps totally thrashed!!!

Single Arm Preacher Curl
Set 1: 25 lbs x 10 @ 8.5 rpe
Set 2: 25 lbs x 10 @ 10 rpe
Set 3: 25 lbs x 9 @ 10 rpe [Failure] - Up 1 rep

EZ Bar Biceps Curl
Set 1: 40 lbs x 15 @ 9 rpe
Set 2: 40 lbs x 15 @ 10 rpe
Set 3: 40 lbs x 12 @ 10 rpe [Failure] - Up 1 rep

Biceps Thrashed!
My biceps were burning so bad I wanted to quite 3 rep from the last one on the 2nd and 3rd sets, but I could still move that bastard! Brutal!

Okay just to have some fun I am going to post up comparison pictures of me Fasted TG morning, pumped TG afternoon, Fasted this morning, and about an hour after my arm workout still slightly pumped at a weight of 205.7. One of the pictures says 196.4 for TG morning but it is wrong it is 196.2 for a total gain of 6 fasted lbs, and 11.3 from the pumped pics from today.

Invalid Link Removed
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Invalid Link Removed

So the coach and I had a miscommunication, he wanted me to only have that one burger and fries this week, but accidentally put after any workout. So I had 2 extra refeed meals this week. The good news is he said my check ins look great and he thinks we are ready to start pushing calories for growth.

He also said my blood work looks good, but we need to keep an eye on my RBC, and Hematocrit. I will likely donate again in 8 weeks just to be safe.

I am looking forward to seeing my diet adjustments, and a his thoughts on some changes I asked him about regarding training to keep my right shoulder safe. The labrum is still a little inflamed and I want to nip it in the bud by backing off of the failure sets on pressing movements, and trying some 1-2RIR rest pause / myorep sets to replace them. If he doesn't suggest something else that is likely what I will do.

Crazy transformation from fasted to fed and pumped. Lookin good Sir!

 

[MrKleen73]

Ahh that makes sense on the refeed with the burger and fries. I thought he was just experimenting to see how your body would react, but at least he could see you actually reacted well. On your pictures, that’s a good way to see the pump transformation throughout the day, and looks like most of the water went into the muscle, and the abs are still popping.
Now the fun begins, time for the gain train.

Yeah, I just wanted to see them side by side and have a referral point. I am excited about the gain train coming too. I got my diet this morning and he bumped me 862 calories today. All carbs and the associated proteins that come with it. We went from 2373 to 3235 and 281p, 57f, & 396c

Crazy transformation from fasted to fed and pumped. Lookin good Sir!

Thank You Sir!

New Macros: 3235 calories - 281p, 57f, & 396c
Gear Changes: Test 150 (525mg week), Mast 100 (350mg a week) EOD - add Arimidex if needed
Cardio Change: Elliptical 25 minutes 135-150BPM

11/26/23 - Fasted Weight 201.2 - Woke up looking tight and was actually somewhat vascular still. Normally flat as a pancake no veins.

I won't be surprised if I am a solid 205 by the end of this week with the addition at 191g of carbs a day.

 

[PolishHamm3r77]

Yeah, I just wanted to see them side by side and have a referral point. I am excited about the gain train coming too. I got my diet this morning and he bumped me 862 calories today. All carbs and the associated proteins that come with it. We went from 2373 to 3235 and 281p, 57f, & 396c

Thank You Sir!

New Macros: 3235 calories - 281p, 57f, & 396c
Gear Changes: Test 150 (525mg week), Mast 100 (350mg a week) EOD - add Arimidex if needed
Cardio Change: Elliptical 25 minutes 135-150BPM

11/26/23 - Fasted Weight 201.2 - Woke up looking tight and was actually somewhat vascular still. Normally flat as a pancake no veins.

I won't be surprised if I am a solid 205 by the end of this week with the addition at 191g of carbs a day.

I’m liking those macros!!!!!

 

[akboom87]

Yeah, I just wanted to see them side by side and have a referral point. I am excited about the gain train coming too. I got my diet this morning and he bumped me 862 calories today. All carbs and the associated proteins that come with it. We went from 2373 to 3235 and 281p, 57f, & 396c

Thank You Sir!

New Macros: 3235 calories - 281p, 57f, & 396c
Gear Changes: Test 150 (525mg week), Mast 100 (350mg a week) EOD - add Arimidex if needed
Cardio Change: Elliptical 25 minutes 135-150BPM

11/26/23 - Fasted Weight 201.2 - Woke up looking tight and was actually somewhat vascular still. Normally flat as a pancake no veins.

I won't be surprised if I am a solid 205 by the end of this week with the addition at 191g of carbs a day.

Those are great side comparisons. The macros you are bumping up to look great, with your hard work and physique your already rocking this is going to be great.

 

[Bon20]

I checked it out, doesn't look like you have too much to worry about. How long have you been at your current body weight? The skin will often retract over time if you don't have stretch marks. I doubt I will do much of anything to try to correct it other than get lean enough it is paper thin. I have had the loose skin for years and years, I don't think it is going anywhere. Creative posing goes a long way in hiding it and honestly it's not really bad enough to hide much of my condition.

Many years ago, I was overweight, but for the last approximately 12 years, I have weighed between 154-163 lbs. Currently, I weigh a bit more than usual because I've been bulking and am now cutting. Yes, my loose skin is not as noticeable when I'm leaner, but there's still a bit there.

Once, I went through an approximately 8-month-long cut where I got down to 141 lbs. At that weight, I didn't have much loose skin, but my lower abs were still not well-defined. It's particularly noticeable when I've done intense cardio and am dehydrated. I'm hopeful that microneedling will work, but I don't have high expectations for it improving my loose skin during this cycle, as I understand high testosterone can reduce collagen synthesis in the skin and joints.

However, I am looking forward to reading more of your log and following your progress.

 

[Hyde]

You really don’t look any worse off at all in the fed/pumped photos (maybe a tad less dry). But for all the fullness, you can tell your body really was able to use the food well. That mix up showed you guys how ready your body is - good luck growing! Gym is going to get better too now.

 

[MrKleen73]

I’m liking those macros!!!!!

Yeah they are pretty sexy.

Those are great side comparisons. The macros you are bumping up to look great, with your hard work and physique your already rocking this is going to be great.

Yeah, I am really excited to see what is to come.

Many years ago, I was overweight, but for the last approximately 12 years, I have weighed between 154-163 lbs. Currently, I weigh a bit more than usual because I've been bulking and am now cutting. Yes, my loose skin is not as noticeable when I'm leaner, but there's still a bit there.

Once, I went through an approximately 8-month-long cut where I got down to 141 lbs. At that weight, I didn't have much loose skin, but my lower abs were still not well-defined. It's particularly noticeable when I've done intense cardio and am dehydrated. I'm hopeful that microneedling will work, but I don't have high expectations for it improving my loose skin during this cycle, as I understand high testosterone can reduce collagen synthesis in the skin and joints.

However, I am looking forward to reading more of your log and following your progress.

Awesome man, thanks for following along and I will have to go back and check out your progress after a little bit.
Yeah the loose skin sucks but it is what it is. Now, it is just proof that I came a long way to get here Baby!!!

You really don’t look any worse off at all in the fed/pumped photos (maybe a tad less dry). But for all the fullness, you can tell your body really was able to use the food well. That mix up showed you guys how ready your body is - good luck growing! Gym is going to get better too now.

Thanks, I was pretty impressed the first pumped pics are obscene though when I was a bit more dry. I let him know I wasn't as good about my water those days either or I would have likely been more dry. I woke up looking pretty sick this morning. I am curious to see how this treats me.

Man there is just something about scarfing a bunch of carbs down... so satisfying. Playing catch up today because I had to go shopping and of course I don't get up at 3:45 AM to start eating on weekends either, but I was up late last night and slept until 10:00AM. So I have really been behind the gun here. I will likely finish up with some liquid calories to get there.

I am finishing up my food prep over the next 2 hours while trying to squeeze in the rest of my calories.

 

[gphagan1]

Yeah they are pretty sexy.
Yeah, I am really excited to see what is to come.
Awesome man, thanks for following along and I will have to go back and check out your progress after a little bit.
Yeah the loose skin sucks but it is what it is. Now, it is just proof that I came a long way to get here Baby!!!
Thanks, I was pretty impressed the first pumped pics are obscene though when I was a bit more dry. I let him know I wasn't as good about my water those days either or I would have likely been more dry. I woke up looking pretty sick this morning. I am curious to see how this treats me.

Man there is just something about scarfing a bunch of carbs down... so satisfying. Playing catch up today because I had to go shopping and of course I don't get up at 3:45 AM to start eating on weekends either, but I was up late last night and slept until 10:00AM. So I have really been behind the gun here. I will likely finish up with some liquid calories to get there.

I am finishing up my food prep over the next 2 hours while trying to squeeze in the rest of my calories.

Now that you’re on the bulk or growth part of your prep have you thought about adding MK 677?

 

[MrKleen73]

Now that you’re on the bulk or growth part of your prep have you thought about adding MK 677?

I have some but the last time I used it my BP went up pretty fast. Plus coach hasn't mentioned it so it doesn't seem to be on his radar of things to use. I guess I could bring it up to him and see what he thinks. I might wait until I need appetite help before bringing it up. However I am not sweating it if I use it or not.

I was able to get my calories in last night but it was a major challenge shoving down 3235 calories in 9 hours of eating...

11/27/23 - Fasted Weight 205.2 lbs - Looks like I was off on my prediction of 205 by Friday. Well in a way I guess. Monday is definitely by Friday!

Chest & Biceps (Monday) - Nov 27, 2023 at 4:49am

Isolateral Converging Incline Chest Press (Machine) - Set 1 6 reps + 2 rp, 10 reps + 2rp
Set 1: 80 lbs x 6 @ 8.5 rpe - [Rest Pause]
RP Set 2: 80 lbs x 3 @ 9 rpe - [Rest Pause]
RP Set 3: 80 lbs x 2 @ 9.5 rpe

Set 2: 70 lbs x 10 @ 9 rpe [Down Set]
RP Set 5: 70 lbs x 3 @ 9.5 rpe [Rest Pause]
Rp Set 6: 70 lbs x 3 @ 10 rpe [Rest Pause]

Iso-Lateral Chest Press (Machine)
Set 1: 55 lbs x 9 @ 9.5 rpe
Set 2: 55 lbs x 10 @ 9.5 rpe
Set 3: 50lbs x 7 @ 9 rpe
Drop Set: 40 lbs x 4 @ 9.5 rpe
Drop Set 5: 35 lbs x 3 @ 9.5 rpe

Bench Press (Cable)
Set 1: 40 lbs x 15 @ 7.5 rpe
Set 2: 40 lbs x 15 @ 8 rpe
Set 3: 40 lbs x 15 @ 8 rpe - On hole 16 Next time and 50lbs

Chest Fly (Machine) 21's
Set 1: 90 lbs x 21 @ 7.5 rpe
Set 2: 90 lbs x 21 @ 8 rpe
Set 3: 90 lbs x 21 @ 9 rpe - Hit all 21 on 3rd set, go up to 90.

Spider Curl (Dumbbell)
Set 1: 20 lbs x 15 @ 8 rpe
Set 2: 20 lbs x 15 @ 9 rpe
Set 3: 20 lbs x 15 @ 10 rpe - Go to 25lbs

Pronated Twist Bicep Curl (Dumbbell)
Set 1: 20 lbs x 15 @ 8.5 rpe
Set 2: 20 lbs x 15 @ 9.5 rpe
Set 3: 20 lbs x 12 @ 10 rpe - Go up to 25

Lots of improvements here with the extra carbs and calories. Everything after the main work sets went up. I did not go to failure on any of the pressing. I did get an RPE10 on one of the sets. I feel like this workout was both safer and more productive for me than going to failure. I may end up taking back control of my training and just use him as a sounding board if things don't start improving with my shoulder. Also it occured to me this could very likely be referral pain from my C-spine issue. So if things get any worse after squatting tomorrow it will be my last set of Barbell squats for the rest of prep. It isn't worth squatting if it is causing any of this.

Today will be my first whole day of of eating as I should on the diet. By that I mea with proper meal timing and spread out more through the day. I am curious if weight will go back down any if I am not so calorie loaded when I got to bed. Either way. I looked big this morning and my arms are stretching a shirt again that was getting looser around the arms as I got lower in body weight. Time to start seeing some real growth here! LFG!!!

 

[Dustin07]

Is it going to be common to have a full out arms day without the compound lift added?
I recall years ago discussion on compound lifts having a greater hormonal response, so to stack the smaller isolation movements around that (i.e. Bench > triceps/shoulders, etc). Of course, that routine ended up just making sense to me so I could slam triceps post bench, and save biceps for my pull day the following or previous day anyways (and I was natty so hormonal response was a bit more limited I reckon).

New Macros: 3235 calories - 281p, 57f, & 396c
Gear Changes: Test 150 (525mg week), Mast 100 (350mg a week) EOD - add Arimidex if needed
Cardio Change: Elliptical 25 minutes 135-150BPM

LOVE that macro setup. very similar to what I've seen Layne prescribing people lately. is that daily cardio? 7x per week?

You really don’t look any worse off at all in the fed/pumped photos (maybe a tad less dry). But for all the fullness, you can tell your body really was able to use the food well. That mix up showed you guys how ready your body is - good luck growing! Gym is going to get better too now.

was thinking the same thing. not seeing a loss of definition, but definitely seeing improved fullness.

 

[gphagan1]

Yeah you should be primed to respond really well to the increase in calories. That’s probably a good call in taking back some control of your workouts. You know your body, how it responds to certain exercises, and how to avoid or work around potential injuries. And definitely if barbell squats are causing pain, it’s not worth it. There are so many other good exercises to build legs.
Better safe than sorry.

 

[MrKleen73]

Is it going to be common to have a full out arms day without the compound lift added?
I recall years ago discussion on compound lifts having a greater hormonal response, so to stack the smaller isolation movements around that (i.e. Bench > triceps/shoulders, etc). Of course, that routine ended up just making sense to me so I could slam triceps post bench, and save biceps for my pull day the following or previous day anyways (and I was natty so hormonal response was a bit more limited I reckon).



LOVE that macro setup. very similar to what I've seen Layne prescribing people lately. is that daily cardio? 7x per week?



was thinking the same thing. not seeing a loss of definition, but definitely seeing improved fullness.

Oh yeah, and it is close to what I was running when my calories were up higher during the recomp portion of this. My protein was lower but carbs and fats are pretty much the same range.

Yeah, I was very pleased with how I looked but a little annoyed because if i had executed a little better with water intake I would have likely been even more dry. I think the fullness and roundness of the muscle bellies makes up for any difference you can see. Of course you have to be on a computer of full screen to even see the slight differences in definition. You probably won't see much difference at all if on the phone.

Yeah you should be primed to respond really well to the increase in calories. That’s probably a good call in taking back some control of your workouts. You know your body, how it responds to certain exercises, and how to avoid or work around potential injuries. And definitely if barbell squats are causing pain, it’s not worth it. There are so many other good exercises to build legs.
Better safe than sorry.

Oh yeah, I agree considering I have been in a deficit for a long stretch outside of the 2-3 weeks spent at maintenance recently. Now, I am going to have to get mentally ready to see a lot of the definition subside but the new size should definitely make things look impressive.

Yeah, I do like the program he put me on just not too sure it likes me. I also felt like I was getting a little more sore from the RP Style stuff but want to stick with a lot of what he prescribed just to let it work out and see what comes from it. Tomorrow, or the following day will give me a good idea of if I will be squatting any more or not. Hopefully the Rack Pulls are not bothering it because I can definitely see my yoke and upper back thickening up quickly with them in the rotation since not actually deadlifting now. My back and yoke get pretty insane when I am DL'ing regularly. I am also of the opinion you can get more quality work in on a muscle training it twice a week while somewhat fresh compared to getting it all in one workout and not touching it again for a week even if I never got sore or felt much muscle disruption. We shall see how that goes, and if I feel I need to pretty much take over on that front.

 

[MrKleen73]

11/28/23 - Fasted weight 200.8 - Man I dropped down from 205.2 overnight. My body must be getting used to the increase in calories.

Morning training was derailed by me accidentally leaving my key fob for the gym in my hoodie I wore to the gym yesterday. So once I got to the gym I wasn't able to get in. I went to the gym that opens at 5Am and then had to make a restroom pitstop and just didn't have time to work legs. So I did my 25 minutes of cardio and left.

Elliptical - Level 13-15, 120-135 strides a minute - Average HR 140

 

[Smont]

Is it going to be common to have a full out arms day without the compound lift added?
I recall years ago discussion on compound lifts having a greater hormonal response, so to stack the smaller isolation movements around that (i.e. Bench > triceps/shoulders, etc). Of course, that routine ended up just making sense to me so I could slam triceps post bench, and save biceps for my pull day the following or previous day anyways (and I was natty so hormonal response was a bit more limited I reckon).



LOVE that macro setup. very similar to what I've seen Layne prescribing people lately. is that daily cardio? 7x per week?



was thinking the same thing. not seeing a loss of definition, but definitely seeing improved fullness.

My macros are similar, my protein is lower and fat higher, but mot terribly different. Your macros are actually where mine should be. I just beem convience eating too much

 

[MrKleen73]

My macros are similar, my protein is lower and fat higher, but mot terribly different. Your macros are actually where mine should be. I just beem convience eating too much

Makes sense we are close to the same body weight.

Yeah, I totally get that. Lucky I was able to carve out some time to prep my meals a little differently. This time I weighed all of my rice, and chicken immediately after cooking, put them into ziploc bags one with a blue mark to signify it was for my larger meal. So now I just go to the kitchen grab a bag of chicken and the correct bag of rice and drop it in the nuker with some salsa and I am done. it is definitely worth the couple of extra minutes to do this instead of just putting it all in one bag and measuring out. Of course our jobs are vastly different and getting to a microwave is basically a no go for you 95% of the time right?

 

[Smont]

Makes sense we are close to the same body weight.

Yeah, I totally get that. Lucky I was able to carve out some time to prep my meals a little differently. This time I weighed all of my rice, and chicken immediately after cooking, put them into ziploc bags one with a blue mark to signify it was for my larger meal. So now I just go to the kitchen grab a bag of chicken and the correct bag of rice and drop it in the nuker with some salsa and I am done. it is definitely worth the couple of extra minutes to do this instead of just putting it all in one bag and measuring out. Of course our jobs are vastly different and getting to a microwave is basically a no go for you 95% of the time right?

Microwave is a coin toss. I never know until I get there but I would say it's about 50/50 When i'm doing regular contractor stuff but if i'm out on the union jobs and i'm on the road, it's almost a gurentee no microwave. The easiest solution for me has been wraps for my carb source when im at work. I actually used to drag a microwave around in the bed of my truck and take it to every job site, But when I left the Union last year. I left it on the job site for the guys to keep

 

[gphagan1]

Microwave is a coin toss. I never know until I get there but I would say it's about 50/50 When i'm doing regular contractor stuff but if i'm out on the union jobs and i'm on the road, it's almost a gurentee no microwave. The easiest solution for me has been wraps for my carb source when im at work. I actually used to drag a microwave around in the bed of my truck and take it to every job site, But when I left the Union last year. I left it on the job site for the guys to keep

That’s what I need to invent…..a small rechargeable battery operated portable microwave.

 

[PolishHamm3r77]

I have an inverter in my truck. Have to find a low watt mic so I can bring food. Currently, I bring 2 shakers w 2 scoops of whey each to get me through the day.

 

[PolishHamm3r77]

Makes sense we are close to the same body weight.

Yeah, I totally get that. Lucky I was able to carve out some time to prep my meals a little differently. This time I weighed all of my rice, and chicken immediately after cooking, put them into ziploc bags one with a blue mark to signify it was for my larger meal. So now I just go to the kitchen grab a bag of chicken and the correct bag of rice and drop it in the nuker with some salsa and I am done. it is definitely worth the couple of extra minutes to do this instead of just putting it all in one bag and measuring out. Of course our jobs are vastly different and getting to a microwave is basically a no go for you 95% of the time right?

Smart! I make 2 servings of rice at once and split the container to get 2 meals out of it. You have a good grab n go set up

 

[Hyde]

Microwave is a coin toss. I never know until I get there but I would say it's about 50/50 When i'm doing regular contractor stuff but if i'm out on the union jobs and i'm on the road, it's almost a gurentee no microwave. The easiest solution for me has been wraps for my carb source when im at work. I actually used to drag a microwave around in the bed of my truck and take it to every job site, But when I left the Union last year. I left it on the job site for the guys to keep

You’re a good guy, Smont

 

[Smont]

That’s what I need to invent…..a small rechargeable battery operated portable microwave.

They have it, never tried it tho Invalid Link Removed

 

[Smont]

You’re a good guy, Smont

They were soo happy when i told them to keep the microwave and the mini knockoff kureg. Lol, come on guys, this is what you do for a living. You travel everyday, you have to have these things!!!

 

[Smont]

Makes sense we are close to the same body weight.

Yeah, I totally get that. Lucky I was able to carve out some time to prep my meals a little differently. This time I weighed all of my rice, and chicken immediately after cooking, put them into ziploc bags one with a blue mark to signify it was for my larger meal. So now I just go to the kitchen grab a bag of chicken and the correct bag of rice and drop it in the nuker with some salsa and I am done. it is definitely worth the couple of extra minutes to do this instead of just putting it all in one bag and measuring out. Of course our jobs are vastly different and getting to a microwave is basically a no go for you 95% of the time right?

Im a little heavier tjen i thought lol. 208.8lbs abs still visible tho and im always pumped looking. Might be the 1300mg of gear

 

[akboom87]

They make a lunch box that you can plug it and it warms up containers that you have in there. Used to be pretty popular haven’t seen one in a while.

 

[gphagan1]

They have it, never tried it tho Invalid Link Removed

Now that is pretty cool……would be great to take camping, and only 34 bucks. I’ll be getting one of those.

 

[MrKleen73]

Smart! I make 2 servings of rice at once and split the container to get 2 meals out of it. You have a good grab n go set up

They have it, never tried it tho Invalid Link Removed

That is cool but would take having time to be able to set up 50 minutes or 2 hours before hand which makes it inconvenient for someone working on a busy job site I would imagine.

Im a little heavier tjen i thought lol. 208.8lbs abs still visible tho and im always pumped looking. Might be the 1300mg of gear

Oh nice, I forget you fill up like a tick! The 1300mg of gear MIGHT have something to do with it too. LMAO!

They make a lunch box that you can plug it and it warms up containers that you have in there. Used to be pretty popular haven’t seen one in a while.

Is it similar to the link @Smont posted?

Now that is pretty cool……would be great to take camping, and only 34 bucks. I’ll be getting one of those.

Yeah, it looks a little small better get 2.

 

[akboom87]

That is cool but would take having time to be able to set up 50 minutes or 2 hours before hand which makes it inconvenient for someone working on a busy job site I would imagine.
Oh nice, I forget you fill up like a tick! The 1300mg of gear MIGHT have something to do with it too. LMAO!
Is it similar to the link @Smont posted?
Yeah, it looks a little small better get 2.

Yes I didn’t even see the link

 

[MrKleen73]

11/28/23 Legs

Barbell Squat - Bar x20, 95x10 - Stopped here details below...

True Squat Facing Out (Quad Focus) - 90x15, 135x12, 135x11 - Started feeling pressure on back from this and stopped before my last set.

Belt Squats 90x12, 135x11- @RPE10, 135x9 @RPE10 - These were good but that damn belt really cuts into the adductors where all the thin easily stretched skin is. So if I continue to do these I will bring in a thick towel to drape around my waist through the inside of my legs for some cushioning to save that skin from getting a bunch of new purple stretch marks getting pulled into it.

Paused Leg Press - 425x12, 450x12, 450x12 - last set RPE9.5

Lunges - Body Weight x 10, 30 x 8 @RPE9 - Stopped the whole workout here, details below....

Exercises left off = Romanian Deal Lifts and Lying Leg Curls

Had a very rough session last night. I am officially done with back squats. I got to 95lbs on my warm up for squats last night and sure enough as soon as I took the bar off of my back my T-Spine / C-Spine issues said "Hello! Thanks for inviting me, happy to be here!!!" It has definitely been the back squats causing referral pain in my shoulder. Not so much the chest pressing. I did a couple sets of True Squat facing out and got up to 135 before it felt like that was going to be a problem and I folded my hand on that move too for the night at least. Then I went to belt squats and got 2 nice sets to failure at 135 which on this particular Belt Squat feels pretty damn heavy. After that I did 2 sets of DB Lunges but my neck and T-Spine were done! Started getting pain in my neck, and a little numbness in my right hand. I called the entire workout at that point. Better to live and fight another day.

I went home ate, and took 2 Aleve, slathered up in an anti-inflammatory muscle rub and went to bed. Shortly after getting in bed my left foot also went numb for about 20-30 minutes then started getting better as the aleve started working. Luckily no pains last night and I don't feel much worse for the wear today. Still tight, but no referral pain or numbness of any kind. I doubled down on Aleve again this morning and will do so again tonight to get this inflammation knocked out before it becomes a serious issue.

I think I will end up moving to Pendulum Squats to keep most of the pressure on my hips for a little while. Allow the T-Spine and C-Spine to cool down a bit. I am really contemplating taking back complete control of my training. While this style may be very effective, I can not make a bunch of progress if I am continuously pulling back over and over due to injury management. Consistency and continual progress is required to drive growth, and I feel like I have already done a lot of sub optimal work on my legs the last 3 weeks trying to incorporate squats.

I am hoping to be able to keep the rack deads in for my upper back and yoke area but if not that is okay too. I may try a few very light RDL's today before cardio just to see how those feel and if I should temporarily pull them from my plan as well. I honestly get a lot more stimulation with the True Squat good mornings. My legs, and also chest have not gotten even remotely sore since changing exercises up. Considering I have been on the same levels of gear this whole time that tells me I am not pushing them as hard as I was previously.

What do you al think? Does it make sense to keep pushing my luck on training to failure or just go with more of what was working for me previously. Still high intensity, slightly more volume and more frequency. It is a hard call to make knowing I am paying for the training also. So some opinions from the outside looking in would be helpful here.

 

[jimbuick]

11/28/23 Legs

Barbell Squat - Bar x20, 95x10 - Stopped here details below...

True Squat Facing Out (Quad Focus) - 90x15, 135x12, 135x11 - Started feeling pressure on back from this and stopped before my last set.

Belt Squats 90x12, 135x11- @RPE10, 135x9 @RPE10 - These were good but that damn belt really cuts into the adductors where all the thin easily stretched skin is. So if I continue to do these I will bring in a thick towel to drape around my waist through the inside of my legs for some cushioning to save that skin from getting a bunch of new purple stretch marks getting pulled into it.

Paused Leg Press - 425x12, 450x12, 450x12 - last set RPE9.5

Lunges - Body Weight x 10, 30 x 8 @RPE9 - Stopped the whole workout here, details below....

Exercises left off = Romanian Deal Lifts and Lying Leg Curls

Had a very rough session last night. I am officially done with back squats. I got to 95lbs on my warm up for squats last night and sure enough as soon as I took the bar off of my back my T-Spine / C-Spine issues said "Hello! Thanks for inviting me, happy to be here!!!" It has definitely been the back squats causing referral pain in my shoulder. Not so much the chest pressing. I did a couple sets of True Squat facing out and got up to 135 before it felt like that was going to be a problem and I folded my hand on that move too for the night at least. Then I went to belt squats and got 2 nice sets to failure at 135 which on this particular Belt Squat feels pretty damn heavy. After that I did 2 sets of DB Lunges but my neck and T-Spine were done! Started getting pain in my neck, and a little numbness in my right hand. I called the entire workout at that point. Better to live and fight another day.

I went home ate, and took 2 Aleve, slathered up in an anti-inflammatory muscle rub and went to bed. Shortly after getting in bed my left foot also went numb for about 20-30 minutes then started getting better as the aleve started working. Luckily no pains last night and I don't feel much worse for the wear today. Still tight, but no referral pain or numbness of any kind. I doubled down on Aleve again this morning and will do so again tonight to get this inflammation knocked out before it becomes a serious issue.

I think I will end up moving to Pendulum Squats to keep most of the pressure on my hips for a little while. Allow the T-Spine and C-Spine to cool down a bit. I am really contemplating taking back complete control of my training. While this style may be very effective, I can not make a bunch of progress if I am continuously pulling back over and over due to injury management. Consistency and continual progress is required to drive growth, and I feel like I have already done a lot of sub optimal work on my legs the last 3 weeks trying to incorporate squats.

I am hoping to be able to keep the rack deads in for my upper back and yoke area but if not that is okay too. I may try a few very light RDL's today before cardio just to see how those feel and if I should temporarily pull them from my plan as well. I honestly get a lot more stimulation with the True Squat good mornings. My legs, and also chest have not gotten even remotely sore since changing exercises up. Considering I have been on the same levels of gear this whole time that tells me I am not pushing them as hard as I was previously.

What do you al think? Does it make sense to keep pushing my luck on training to failure or just go with more of what was working for me previously. Still high intensity, slightly more volume and more frequency. It is a hard call to make knowing I am paying for the training also. So some opinions from the outside looking in would be helpful here.

Tbh, I’d just talk to him about the limitations you’re running into. I’d definitely tell him that free weight squats aren’t gonna be happening because of injuries that make both the leg sessions and following sessions less effective.

And if the heavier weight to failure is a problem too, then I’m sure he can accommodate with higher volume work to make up for the fact that you won’t be getting as close to failure (or, alternatively, just having you hit muscular failure at higher rep ranges which may help the joints by itself).

Seems like a bit of a waste to hire a coach and then not talk to him about training issues when they arise. If he fails to accommodate, then you cross that bridge then, but that isn’t where I’d start.

I may end up doing something similar with squats. My work today was fine (for now, we’ll see how I feel tomorrow), but if it ends up being a problem, I’ll do a hack squat or something instead (and will let him know if that occurs).

 

[Segansational]

What is "True Squat" vs BB squats?

 

[teamguy312]

11/28/23 Legs

Barbell Squat - Bar x20, 95x10 - Stopped here details below...

True Squat Facing Out (Quad Focus) - 90x15, 135x12, 135x11 - Started feeling pressure on back from this and stopped before my last set.

Belt Squats 90x12, 135x11- @RPE10, 135x9 @RPE10 - These were good but that damn belt really cuts into the adductors where all the thin easily stretched skin is. So if I continue to do these I will bring in a thick towel to drape around my waist through the inside of my legs for some cushioning to save that skin from getting a bunch of new purple stretch marks getting pulled into it.

Paused Leg Press - 425x12, 450x12, 450x12 - last set RPE9.5

Lunges - Body Weight x 10, 30 x 8 @RPE9 - Stopped the whole workout here, details below....

Exercises left off = Romanian Deal Lifts and Lying Leg Curls

Had a very rough session last night. I am officially done with back squats. I got to 95lbs on my warm up for squats last night and sure enough as soon as I took the bar off of my back my T-Spine / C-Spine issues said "Hello! Thanks for inviting me, happy to be here!!!" It has definitely been the back squats causing referral pain in my shoulder. Not so much the chest pressing. I did a couple sets of True Squat facing out and got up to 135 before it felt like that was going to be a problem and I folded my hand on that move too for the night at least. Then I went to belt squats and got 2 nice sets to failure at 135 which on this particular Belt Squat feels pretty damn heavy. After that I did 2 sets of DB Lunges but my neck and T-Spine were done! Started getting pain in my neck, and a little numbness in my right hand. I called the entire workout at that point. Better to live and fight another day.

I went home ate, and took 2 Aleve, slathered up in an anti-inflammatory muscle rub and went to bed. Shortly after getting in bed my left foot also went numb for about 20-30 minutes then started getting better as the aleve started working. Luckily no pains last night and I don't feel much worse for the wear today. Still tight, but no referral pain or numbness of any kind. I doubled down on Aleve again this morning and will do so again tonight to get this inflammation knocked out before it becomes a serious issue.

I think I will end up moving to Pendulum Squats to keep most of the pressure on my hips for a little while. Allow the T-Spine and C-Spine to cool down a bit. I am really contemplating taking back complete control of my training. While this style may be very effective, I can not make a bunch of progress if I am continuously pulling back over and over due to injury management. Consistency and continual progress is required to drive growth, and I feel like I have already done a lot of sub optimal work on my legs the last 3 weeks trying to incorporate squats.

I am hoping to be able to keep the rack deads in for my upper back and yoke area but if not that is okay too. I may try a few very light RDL's today before cardio just to see how those feel and if I should temporarily pull them from my plan as well. I honestly get a lot more stimulation with the True Squat good mornings. My legs, and also chest have not gotten even remotely sore since changing exercises up. Considering I have been on the same levels of gear this whole time that tells me I am not pushing them as hard as I was previously.

What do you al think? Does it make sense to keep pushing my luck on training to failure or just go with more of what was working for me previously. Still high intensity, slightly more volume and more frequency. It is a hard call to make knowing I am paying for the training also. So some opinions from the outside looking in would be helpful here.

Man man, this sounds like a great cycle. You already look better than most 20 years olds, but you want more you greedy bastard Just messing around but it's true, just to maintain the physique you have would be beyond satisfactory for most guys. We have a similar build, mind if I ask how tall you are? I'm 5'9, best I'm less blessed in the pecs but it's a tradeoff for some naturally large traps. Regardless, looking killer man. There are like 14 pages of comments now, but I believe I read you are on 300mg test E and 200mg mast? 300mg of test can be plenty for some people including me, but I wouldn't have expected 300mg test and 200mg mast to have such a profound effect on you considering your experience and all. Have you thought about taking any orals pre comp? Or maybe some injectable superdrol? Underrated ****, not as harsh obviously and still amazing effects. 25mg injectable SD split 12.5/12.5 for me has less lethargy than 10mg oral SD daily. Just a thought, figured I'd mention it because I've seen very few posts on it. It also flows out of a 31g insulin syringe like butter, I always injected subq because I was concerned about injecting SD into a large vein, but it was easily avoidable.

Regardless, good luck and keep up the great work!

 

[gphagan1]

11/28/23 Legs

Barbell Squat - Bar x20, 95x10 - Stopped here details below...

True Squat Facing Out (Quad Focus) - 90x15, 135x12, 135x11 - Started feeling pressure on back from this and stopped before my last set.

Belt Squats 90x12, 135x11- @RPE10, 135x9 @RPE10 - These were good but that damn belt really cuts into the adductors where all the thin easily stretched skin is. So if I continue to do these I will bring in a thick towel to drape around my waist through the inside of my legs for some cushioning to save that skin from getting a bunch of new purple stretch marks getting pulled into it.

Paused Leg Press - 425x12, 450x12, 450x12 - last set RPE9.5

Lunges - Body Weight x 10, 30 x 8 @RPE9 - Stopped the whole workout here, details below....

Exercises left off = Romanian Deal Lifts and Lying Leg Curls

Had a very rough session last night. I am officially done with back squats. I got to 95lbs on my warm up for squats last night and sure enough as soon as I took the bar off of my back my T-Spine / C-Spine issues said "Hello! Thanks for inviting me, happy to be here!!!" It has definitely been the back squats causing referral pain in my shoulder. Not so much the chest pressing. I did a couple sets of True Squat facing out and got up to 135 before it felt like that was going to be a problem and I folded my hand on that move too for the night at least. Then I went to belt squats and got 2 nice sets to failure at 135 which on this particular Belt Squat feels pretty damn heavy. After that I did 2 sets of DB Lunges but my neck and T-Spine were done! Started getting pain in my neck, and a little numbness in my right hand. I called the entire workout at that point. Better to live and fight another day.

I went home ate, and took 2 Aleve, slathered up in an anti-inflammatory muscle rub and went to bed. Shortly after getting in bed my left foot also went numb for about 20-30 minutes then started getting better as the aleve started working. Luckily no pains last night and I don't feel much worse for the wear today. Still tight, but no referral pain or numbness of any kind. I doubled down on Aleve again this morning and will do so again tonight to get this inflammation knocked out before it becomes a serious issue.

I think I will end up moving to Pendulum Squats to keep most of the pressure on my hips for a little while. Allow the T-Spine and C-Spine to cool down a bit. I am really contemplating taking back complete control of my training. While this style may be very effective, I can not make a bunch of progress if I am continuously pulling back over and over due to injury management. Consistency and continual progress is required to drive growth, and I feel like I have already done a lot of sub optimal work on my legs the last 3 weeks trying to incorporate squats.

I am hoping to be able to keep the rack deads in for my upper back and yoke area but if not that is okay too. I may try a few very light RDL's today before cardio just to see how those feel and if I should temporarily pull them from my plan as well. I honestly get a lot more stimulation with the True Squat good mornings. My legs, and also chest have not gotten even remotely sore since changing exercises up. Considering I have been on the same levels of gear this whole time that tells me I am not pushing them as hard as I was previously.

What do you al think? Does it make sense to keep pushing my luck on training to failure or just go with more of what was working for me previously. Still high intensity, slightly more volume and more frequency. It is a hard call to make knowing I am paying for the training also. So some opinions from the outside looking in would be helpful here.

Tbh, I’d just talk to him about the limitations you’re running into. I’d definitely tell him that free weight squats aren’t gonna be happening because of injuries that make both the leg sessions and following sessions less effective.

And if the heavier weight to failure is a problem too, then I’m sure he can accommodate with higher volume work to make up for the fact that you won’t be getting as close to failure (or, alternatively, just having you hit muscular failure at higher rep ranges which may help the joints by itself).

Seems like a bit of a waste to hire a coach and then not talk to him about training issues when they arise. If he fails to accommodate, then you cross that bridge then, but that isn’t where I’d start.

I may end up doing something similar with squats. My work today was fine (for now, we’ll see how I feel tomorrow), but if it ends up being a problem, I’ll do a hack squat or something instead (and will let him know if that occurs).

I agree with what Jim said about getting with your coach and just explaining injury or potential injury limitations, and let him know the comparable exercises that you know work for you, as well the style, rep range, and weight that works for you. I have issues with squats as well because of a bulging disc in my neck and knee issues, so they are really more a light accessory unfortunately. Heavy squats just puts so much pressure on the spine. The way this guy sounds, I bet he’s really accommodating to what works for you. I guarantee you he doesn’t want to see you injured about as much as you don’t want an injury. And hey the pictures are proof that what you were doing was working.

 

[MrKleen73]

Tbh, I’d just talk to him about the limitations you’re running into. I’d definitely tell him that free weight squats aren’t gonna be happening because of injuries that make both the leg sessions and following sessions less effective.

And if the heavier weight to failure is a problem too, then I’m sure he can accommodate with higher volume work to make up for the fact that you won’t be getting as close to failure (or, alternatively, just having you hit muscular failure at higher rep ranges which may help the joints by itself).

Seems like a bit of a waste to hire a coach and then not talk to him about training issues when they arise. If he fails to accommodate, then you cross that bridge then, but that isn’t where I’d start.

I may end up doing something similar with squats. My work today was fine (for now, we’ll see how I feel tomorrow), but if it ends up being a problem, I’ll do a hack squat or something instead (and will let him know if that occurs).

@jimbuick Oh, no, I wasn't meaning I would cut him out totally even though I said take total control which probably gave that impression as well. By total control I mean I won't do anything else that I think will put me at risk of messing with my injuries or causing me to pull back on progression. That is why I said I would ask for his input. Just the things I know aren't good for me need to be adjusted. I did ask him on my last check in about changing from failure sets to just adding a couple of rest pauses to those two failure sets at the beginning, but he didn't respond regarding that. There are parts of this structure I really enjoy and definitely want to keep in place. A lot of the movements he put in I see why they are there, and are really awesome.

 

[teamguy312]

11/28/23 Legs

Barbell Squat - Bar x20, 95x10 - Stopped here details below...

True Squat Facing Out (Quad Focus) - 90x15, 135x12, 135x11 - Started feeling pressure on back from this and stopped before my last set.

Belt Squats 90x12, 135x11- @RPE10, 135x9 @RPE10 - These were good but that damn belt really cuts into the adductors where all the thin easily stretched skin is. So if I continue to do these I will bring in a thick towel to drape around my waist through the inside of my legs for some cushioning to save that skin from getting a bunch of new purple stretch marks getting pulled into it.

Paused Leg Press - 425x12, 450x12, 450x12 - last set RPE9.5

Lunges - Body Weight x 10, 30 x 8 @RPE9 - Stopped the whole workout here, details below....

Exercises left off = Romanian Deal Lifts and Lying Leg Curls

Had a very rough session last night. I am officially done with back squats. I got to 95lbs on my warm up for squats last night and sure enough as soon as I took the bar off of my back my T-Spine / C-Spine issues said "Hello! Thanks for inviting me, happy to be here!!!" It has definitely been the back squats causing referral pain in my shoulder. Not so much the chest pressing. I did a couple sets of True Squat facing out and got up to 135 before it felt like that was going to be a problem and I folded my hand on that move too for the night at least. Then I went to belt squats and got 2 nice sets to failure at 135 which on this particular Belt Squat feels pretty damn heavy. After that I did 2 sets of DB Lunges but my neck and T-Spine were done! Started getting pain in my neck, and a little numbness in my right hand. I called the entire workout at that point. Better to live and fight another day.

I went home ate, and took 2 Aleve, slathered up in an anti-inflammatory muscle rub and went to bed. Shortly after getting in bed my left foot also went numb for about 20-30 minutes then started getting better as the aleve started working. Luckily no pains last night and I don't feel much worse for the wear today. Still tight, but no referral pain or numbness of any kind. I doubled down on Aleve again this morning and will do so again tonight to get this inflammation knocked out before it becomes a serious issue.

I think I will end up moving to Pendulum Squats to keep most of the pressure on my hips for a little while. Allow the T-Spine and C-Spine to cool down a bit. I am really contemplating taking back complete control of my training. While this style may be very effective, I can not make a bunch of progress if I am continuously pulling back over and over due to injury management. Consistency and continual progress is required to drive growth, and I feel like I have already done a lot of sub optimal work on my legs the last 3 weeks trying to incorporate squats.

I am hoping to be able to keep the rack deads in for my upper back and yoke area but if not that is okay too. I may try a few very light RDL's today before cardio just to see how those feel and if I should temporarily pull them from my plan as well. I honestly get a lot more stimulation with the True Squat good mornings. My legs, and also chest have not gotten even remotely sore since changing exercises up. Considering I have been on the same levels of gear this whole time that tells me I am not pushing them as hard as I was previously.

What do you al think? Does it make sense to keep pushing my luck on training to failure or just go with more of what was working for me previously. Still high intensity, slightly more volume and more frequency. It is a hard call to make knowing I am paying for the training also. So some opinions from the outside looking in would be helpful here.

As far as the back squats, with all the different types of exercises and lifting methods out there, I'd say scratch that and find an alternative that works that muscle group somehow. It's your back, no reason to risk serious injury, not being able to move, a herniated disc, etc when you are already looking like a beast. Think about it, hurt your back bad enough, god forbid and those gains you have won't be around for as long as you like!

Maybe go to an ortho or even the ER if your insurance covers it and get imaging done. That will make it easier to determine if you should continue, heal and work weight back up naturally or if you should forget that exercise movement altogether in interest of being able to continue to work out everything else.

Hope this was a little help for you.

 

[Dustin07]

By total control I mean I won't do anything else that I think will put me at risk of messing with my injuries or causing me to pull back on progression.

such a tough balance at times between being coachable, and also being knowledgeable of your own injury risks. Luckily you have enough history and experience to be able to slice that pie pretty fairly I think.

my experience was usually the opposite, athletes doing it anyways despite the coach saying "you're gonna get an injury"

 

[Dustin07]

What do you al think? Does it make sense to keep pushing my luck on training to failure or just go with more of what was working for me previously. Still high intensity, slightly more volume and more frequency. It is a hard call to make knowing I am paying for the training also. So some opinions from the outside looking in would be helpful here.

maybe looping in a sports specific PT who's main goal in life is 110% rehabilitation and then linking him with the coach would be the ticket here. And the reason I was specific on these PT details is cause most PT's aim to get you from the couch to the fridge but I've learned not to settle for any PT who isn't trying to get you game ready. I think you have an interesting situation that's gonna require more discussion with coach.

 

[teamguy312]

11/28/23 Legs

Barbell Squat - Bar x20, 95x10 - Stopped here details below...

True Squat Facing Out (Quad Focus) - 90x15, 135x12, 135x11 - Started feeling pressure on back from this and stopped before my last set.

Belt Squats 90x12, 135x11- @RPE10, 135x9 @RPE10 - These were good but that damn belt really cuts into the adductors where all the thin easily stretched skin is. So if I continue to do these I will bring in a thick towel to drape around my waist through the inside of my legs for some cushioning to save that skin from getting a bunch of new purple stretch marks getting pulled into it.

Paused Leg Press - 425x12, 450x12, 450x12 - last set RPE9.5

Lunges - Body Weight x 10, 30 x 8 @RPE9 - Stopped the whole workout here, details below....

Exercises left off = Romanian Deal Lifts and Lying Leg Curls

Had a very rough session last night. I am officially done with back squats. I got to 95lbs on my warm up for squats last night and sure enough as soon as I took the bar off of my back my T-Spine / C-Spine issues said "Hello! Thanks for inviting me, happy to be here!!!" It has definitely been the back squats causing referral pain in my shoulder. Not so much the chest pressing. I did a couple sets of True Squat facing out and got up to 135 before it felt like that was going to be a problem and I folded my hand on that move too for the night at least. Then I went to belt squats and got 2 nice sets to failure at 135 which on this particular Belt Squat feels pretty damn heavy. After that I did 2 sets of DB Lunges but my neck and T-Spine were done! Started getting pain in my neck, and a little numbness in my right hand. I called the entire workout at that point. Better to live and fight another day.

I went home ate, and took 2 Aleve, slathered up in an anti-inflammatory muscle rub and went to bed. Shortly after getting in bed my left foot also went numb for about 20-30 minutes then started getting better as the aleve started working. Luckily no pains last night and I don't feel much worse for the wear today. Still tight, but no referral pain or numbness of any kind. I doubled down on Aleve again this morning and will do so again tonight to get this inflammation knocked out before it becomes a serious issue.

I think I will end up moving to Pendulum Squats to keep most of the pressure on my hips for a little while. Allow the T-Spine and C-Spine to cool down a bit. I am really contemplating taking back complete control of my training. While this style may be very effective, I can not make a bunch of progress if I am continuously pulling back over and over due to injury management. Consistency and continual progress is required to drive growth, and I feel like I have already done a lot of sub optimal work on my legs the last 3 weeks trying to incorporate squats.

I am hoping to be able to keep the rack deads in for my upper back and yoke area but if not that is okay too. I may try a few very light RDL's today before cardio just to see how those feel and if I should temporarily pull them from my plan as well. I honestly get a lot more stimulation with the True Squat good mornings. My legs, and also chest have not gotten even remotely sore since changing exercises up. Considering I have been on the same levels of gear this whole time that tells me I am not pushing them as hard as I was previously.

What do you al think? Does it make sense to keep pushing my luck on training to failure or just go with more of what was working for me previously. Still high intensity, slightly more volume and more frequency. It is a hard call to make knowing I am paying for the training also. So some opinions from the outside looking in would be helpful here.

My opinion man, keep doing what has been working for you without pushing areas like your back. If you injure your back and can’t train for weeks, that will be far more detrimental than not going as hard as you can in all areas and risk your back. I may not know a lot about roids and this community in that regard, but since I was 17 my full time, live in job has held injury prevention as number 1, even had the opportunity through my pipeline to work with some ex olympians, professional fighters, swimmers, etc that were brought in specifically to pound injury prevention into our heads. So, I say, prevent it rather than risking not being able to train and all.

 

[rascal14]

I think there’s a lot of evidence out there now that training for size is not nearly as complicated as it is made out to be. I’m sure you know this but just going in and training hard every day is going to be the ticket, probably not whether you decide to do BB squats vs smith squats or even hack squats. You have a lot smarter people giving their input but I don’t sweat it if I can’t grab a smith machine on leg day and have to just do leg press one week. Obviously I’m not far enough along for it to make much difference personally, but I can’t imagine it would for most everyone else either?

I could be way wrong lol but it seems a movement that you can safely take close to failure or up to failure will yield best results.

 

[jimbuick]

I think there’s a lot of evidence out there now that training for size is not nearly as complicated as it is made out to be. I’m sure you know this but just going in and training hard every day is going to be the ticket, probably not whether you decide to do BB squats vs smith squats or even hack squats. You have a lot smarter people giving their input but I don’t sweat it if I can’t grab a smith machine on leg day and have to just do leg press one week. Obviously I’m not far enough along for it to make much difference personally, but I can’t imagine it would for most everyone else either?

I could be way wrong lol but it seems a movement that you can safely take close to failure or up to failure will yield best results.

I tend to do the same. I’ll sub something similar instead of waiting around, but I also don’t compete at a level where the difference between “optimal” and “convenient” actually matters.

Not sure any of us here do yet, either. But I’d imagine it matters for those guys at the top of the competitive world.

 

[Hyde]

I agree with Jim, GP, & Resolve. Chat with coach and see what solutions he offers. He wants you to win. It means he keeps getting paid and he looks good when you do.

 

[MrKleen73]

What is "True Squat" vs BB squats?

This is the true Squat machine or Arsenal calls it their Power Squat. Facing in is glute and ham dominant more like a lowbar, and facing out more for quads similar to a hack squat, you just adjust the height of the foot plate, lower for quads facing out, and higher if facing in for the hammies and glutes. Both ways hit both side of the leg but put more emphasis on one or the other. This is also the machine I did my Good Mornings on that were really toasting my hamstrings and glutes before.

I agree with what Jim said about getting with your coach and just explaining injury or potential injury limitations, and let him know the comparable exercises that you know work for you, as well the style, rep range, and weight that works for you. I have issues with squats as well because of a bulging disc in my neck and knee issues, so they are really more a light accessory unfortunately. Heavy squats just puts so much pressure on the spine. The way this guy sounds, I bet he’s really accommodating to what works for you. I guarantee you he doesn’t want to see you injured about as much as you don’t want an injury. And hey the pictures are proof that what you were doing was working.

Agreed, I want to stick as close as possible to his training plan if i am going to follow it. Even though I honestly hired a coach more for the nutrition, gear, and contest prep part more so than his training plan. However, I am not opposed to going back to something similar to what i was doing before which was IMHO just as effective if not more in a lot of ways. Just judging by stimulus and soreness, and muscle disruption. Some of this other exercise selection is so spot on, and some of the types of sets I do now I wasn't previously are awesome too. I REALLY enjoy the 20,15,10, 20 layout he has me doing for some of my exercises. I definitely think he knows his stuff and knows it better than I do. However, I know my body, and injuries better which makes it hard since I am not paying for a daily interactive type of coaching where I get quick responses on changes.

Man man, this sounds like a great cycle. You already look better than most 20 years olds, but you want more you greedy bastard Just messing around but it's true, just to maintain the physique you have would be beyond satisfactory for most guys. We have a similar build, mind if I ask how tall you are? I'm 5'9, best I'm less blessed in the pecs but it's a tradeoff for some naturally large traps. Regardless, looking killer man. There are like 14 pages of comments now, but I believe I read you are on 300mg test E and 200mg mast? 300mg of test can be plenty for some people including me, but I wouldn't have expected 300mg test and 200mg mast to have such a profound effect on you considering your experience and all. Have you thought about taking any orals pre comp? Or maybe some injectable superdrol? Underrated ****, not as harsh obviously and still amazing effects. 25mg injectable SD split 12.5/12.5 for me has less lethargy than 10mg oral SD daily. Just a thought, figured I'd mention it because I've seen very few posts on it. It also flows out of a 31g insulin syringe like butter, I always injected subq because I was concerned about injecting SD into a large vein, but it was easily avoidable.

Regardless, good luck and keep up the great work!

Man, thanks for the compliments brother! I ain't to bad for 50 eh!

As far as the back squats, with all the different types of exercises and lifting methods out there, I'd say scratch that and find an alternative that works that muscle group somehow. It's your back, no reason to risk serious injury, not being able to move, a herniated disc, etc when you are already looking like a beast. Think about it, hurt your back bad enough, god forbid and those gains you have won't be around for as long as you like!

Maybe go to an ortho or even the ER if your insurance covers it and get imaging done. That will make it easier to determine if you should continue, heal and work weight back up naturally or if you should forget that exercise movement altogether in interest of being able to continue to work out everything else.

Hope this was a little help for you.

Thanks, all good points!

such a tough balance at times between being coachable, and also being knowledgeable of your own injury risks. Luckily you have enough history and experience to be able to slice that pie pretty fairly I think.

my experience was usually the opposite, athletes doing it anyways despite the coach saying "you're gonna get an injury"

Yeah, no doubt. I do tend to push too far, like that is just a historical fact. It's in my mentality, and I really have to reign it in now to keep myself from pushing too far. Left to my own desires every set would be to failure, or have some sort of intensifier. I trained like that for years and years. Similar to how you were with crossfit.

maybe looping in a sports specific PT who's main goal in life is 110% rehabilitation and then linking him with the coach would be the ticket here. And the reason I was specific on these PT details is cause most PT's aim to get you from the couch to the fridge but I've learned not to settle for any PT who isn't trying to get you game ready. I think you have an interesting situation that's gonna require more discussion with coach.

Unfortunately right this minute my money is all tied up in the 3500 in car repiars I have had to shell out the last month or so, and my benefits card is already spent. So getting to someone right this minute is going to be hard unless i want to put it on a card and finance a copayment. Which I may have to do, but just trying to get through this last month without doing that.

My opinion man, keep doing what has been working for you without pushing areas like your back. If you injure your back and can’t train for weeks, that will be far more detrimental than not going as hard as you can in all areas and risk your back. I may not know a lot about roids and this community in that regard, but since I was 17 my full time, live in job has held injury prevention as number 1, even had the opportunity through my pipeline to work with some ex olympians, professional fighters, swimmers, etc that were brought in specifically to pound injury prevention into our heads. So, I say, prevent it rather than risking not being able to train and all.

Facts!

I think there’s a lot of evidence out there now that training for size is not nearly as complicated as it is made out to be. I’m sure you know this but just going in and training hard every day is going to be the ticket, probably not whether you decide to do BB squats vs smith squats or even hack squats. You have a lot smarter people giving their input but I don’t sweat it if I can’t grab a smith machine on leg day and have to just do leg press one week. Obviously I’m not far enough along for it to make much difference personally, but I can’t imagine it would for most everyone else either?

I could be way wrong lol but it seems a movement that you can safely take close to failure or up to failure will yield best results.

No, I don;t think you are wrong and personally as a quad builder squats are suboptimal for me. However the rest of the leg work tends to take up the slack. I have Leg press as my second movement and I can push quads harder on their. At the same time I do respect what he is trying to do with them and understand why. Temporarily I will move to Pendulum Squats, or belt squats since the Power / True Squat machine was pushing my spine a little last night. The pendulum will keep the weight on my hips not my upper back.

The only real difference there is not being able to track progression via exercise volume very well when you swap an exercise out often.

I tend to do the same. I’ll sub something similar instead of waiting around, but I also don’t compete at a level where the difference between “optimal” and “convenient” actually matters.

Not sure any of us here do yet, either. But I’d imagine it matters for those guys at the top of the competitive world.

True, true!

I'd talk to your coach give him your concerns and see if he can come up with something more manageable for your situation. No reason to keep tempting fate with the pain, I am sure you can find a good compromise.

I am going to give him a call later today, and see if we can't come up with some changes to make things a bit safer for me.

In the end I am just really currently frustrated with this setback, and the increasing issues with issues that have not bothered me while pushing pretty damn hard for a while. I originally went to the RP style because it looked like the most effective way to safely progressively overload without my propensity to go to hard and hurt myself. Plus we just added 300mg to my test this week so hard to tell what is usual justified frustration, and what is coming from the increase in gear being so recent.

 

[Dustin07]

Unfortunately right this minute my money is all tied up in the 3500 in car repiars I have had to shell out the last month or so, and my benefits card is already spent. So getting to someone right this minute is going to be hard unless i want to put it on a card and finance a copayment. Which I may have to do, but just trying to get through this last month without doing that.

Dude I still have not wrapped my mind around how much inflation has changed the budget in the past few years. We are getting better at the adjustment, but I'm still dumbfounded at times by how much more I was able to spend sorta willy nilly 3 years ago.