Classic Kleen - The Road To Competition Fall 2024

[Dustin07]

It’s probably obvious to a lot of you guys but I was somewhat surprised at the idea of keeping calories as high as possible, for as long as possible and adding cardio.

I've seen @Smont many times use basically the same approach when helping people out around here, usually cutting calories as last resort if I understand his approach correctly. Seems like a solid way to keep the metabolism up for as long as possible. If you cut down to starvation levels too fast you don't have any more room to cut calories.

 

[jimbuick]

All this whining about cardio is always so baffling to me, never doing any is really just short changing your long term health and gains.

I don’t train for long term health. I’m trying to die huge and young. Just trying to look good in a double wide casket.

 

[rascal14]

I've seen @Smont many times use basically the same approach when helping people out around here, usually cutting calories as last resort if I understand his approach correctly. Seems like a solid way to keep the metabolism up for as long as possible. If you cut down to starvation levels too fast you don't have any more room to cut calories.

Correct, that is how I understand it now. Plus you get the benefits of more nutrients throughout the day, according to mr. Derek from MPMD.

 

[rascal14]

All this whining about cardio is always so baffling to me, never doing any is really just short changing your long term health and gains.

I will say I used to never do cardio but can’t really see myself ever stopping at this point, too many benefits to ignore at this point lol plus I’m still young so better to get in the habit now.

 

[Dustin07]

Derek from MPMD.

some of his shorter ones crack me up. I had downloaded a bunch at the airport one day before a flight home and next thing I know he's talking about making your schlong look bigger by shrinking the bodyfat around it.

 

[rascal14]

some of his shorter ones crack me up. I had downloaded a bunch at the airport one day before a flight home and next thing I know he's talking about making your schlong look bigger by shrinking the bodyfat around it.

Lol he’s an incredibly smart guy, it was smart of him to pivot into the position he’s in now vs pursuing body building.

 

[Smont]

I've seen @Smont many times use basically the same approach when helping people out around here, usually cutting calories as last resort if I understand his approach correctly. Seems like a solid way to keep the metabolism up for as long as possible. If you cut down to starvation levels too fast you don't have any more room to cut calories.

Ya, i wanna increase your need for calories first and then reduce them. I see lots of failed cuts and they usually look something like this
...


I finished my bulk eating 4500 calories, mo ryme or reason for why 4500 calories was the number and il likely see that they gained way more fat then muscle.

On the flipside now there starting there cut at 3000 and there not losing weight. That means your bulk was at least 1500 calories over maintenance. Now they go straight to 2500 and before you know it your eating 1800 cal like a bikini girl.

I want you to create enough activity or calorie demand to push calories during your bulk to a good point where your ending your bulk and your mait cal is (idk, say 3800)

Step 1 drop 200 cal.

When the scale stops moving add 10min cardio at the end of every workout,

Drop 200 cal

When the scale stops moving add a 20min session 3x a week and so on.

No1 needs to be starving until there single digit bf 6-8% you probably need to start making very stratigic moves

 

[Smont]

I don’t train for long term health. I’m trying to die huge and young. Just trying to look good in a double wide casket.

Trying to fill the biggest casket possible. Rip rich piana

 

[jimbuick]

I know you are trying to joke around, but its still dampening your benefits and decreasing the duration of time you'll be huge.

I mean, I’m not completely unserious. I figure 40 years is a good long life, so I’ve got 9 years left in me or so.

 

[jimbuick]

I know you are trying to joke around, but its still dampening your benefits and decreasing the duration of time you'll be huge.

I mean, I’m not completely unserious. I figure 40 years is a good long life, so I’ve got 9 years left in me or so.

 

[Mikereyn513]

I've seen @Smont many times use basically the same approach when helping people out around here, usually cutting calories as last resort if I understand his approach correctly. Seems like a solid way to keep the metabolism up for as long as possible. If you cut down to starvation levels too fast you don't have any more room to cut calories.

Yea cutting calories is the last thing you want to do. Want to keep the body anabolic as long as possible while keeping metabolism high. As soon as calories start dropping metabolism will slow which means you have to add stims which are catabolic so now you have to increase androgen load and this cycle goes and goes until you've emptied the kitchen sink and feel like death but hey you look fantastic so uts all worth it

 

[Dustin07]

but hey you look fantastic so uts all worth it

amen

 

[MrKleen73]

400 calorie 'LISS" day is legit work

Yeah, this is cardio, not aerobics so I am putting in some work.

I hate that that’s probably in my future.

Yeah, you don't want to mess around and get your heart healthy!

OK, that's helpful for me to see. 5x35 mins cardio per week. I'm curious how he dials this up over time, particularly as he gets you 3-4 months out. Because while it sucks, it definitely seems manageable. But an hour of that 5-7 days per week while carb depleted, that's where I'd be questioning my commitment to this! Good luck!

Well right now he is dialing it up during a weight loss phase. I imagine it may go back down a bit during regular offseason growth phase. I know when he was prepping recently before he has to call off his show he was doing 2 hours a day. I think it just comes down to where you are, and how much you need to meet the required pace for your deadline.

It’s probably obvious to a lot of you guys but I was somewhat surprised at the idea of keeping calories as high as possible, for as long as possible and adding cardio.

apparently theres something to be said about how calories in vs calories out is not actually 100% true - meaning calories out from cardio is slightly different than calories out from just not eating. I always dropped calories first before adding cardio, but thats also because I’m lazy.

Yeah, I mean you are getting the benefits of additional health, and keeping your metabolism up. Other than that not tons of reasons. Some coaches push minimal cardio, and adjust through workout tempo, steps, and caloric restriction. Some push do it until you are peeled regardless how much it takes.

I mean it’s nice to start a long cut eating more then drop calories as needed later rather than eat less now then add more cardio when you are already feeling crappy and can’t lower cals much more later.

Agreed, and this is the real reason other than health of course.

I’m actually with you. Would rather be eating 1900kcal and not doing 400kcal worth of cardio than eat 2300 and do the cardio.

I would be at most other times but when running gear, let's keep it in and try to help my ticker and lipids out a bit.

Nice work on the LISS

That really surprises me in the burger and fries after every training session. I was kinda thinking like a fattier cut of steak and carbs. While that sounds tasty after a while that would be hard to get down every day (for me at least). Although you said you’re prepping your own because of the morning training, you could definitely prepare some smash burger patties and make a pretty killer burger.
I feel like I make better burgers at home then I can get out on the town.
Either way pretty cool to see how some of this is laid out, it’s all new to me so really cool to get to see it!

Yeah, it is pretty cool, I don't really know exactly what to expect out of this week. I mean we added in the post workout meal refeed, and then I get 2 free days Thursday and Friday. So, I don't really expect to see much weight come off this week if any. However, I am just trusting the process. At least he will get an ide of how quick I fill back up because I feel like I am going to blow up even with a little bit of indulging.

All this whining about cardio is always so baffling to me, never doing any is really just short changing your long term health and gains.

Facts, but it still ain't fun.

I will say I used to never do cardio but can’t really see myself ever stopping at this point, too many benefits to ignore at this point lol plus I’m still young so better to get in the habit now.

Yeah, I plan to try to keep it up to 3 times a week even after the contest. Just for health reasons.

some of his shorter ones crack me up. I had downloaded a bunch at the airport one day before a flight home and next thing I know he's talking about making your schlong look bigger by shrinking the bodyfat around it.

Yeah buddy, I found an extra inch when I lost 50lbs.

I know you are trying to joke around, but its still dampening your benefits and decreasing the duration of time you'll be huge.

Uh OH, Resolve is laying the smack down!

Ya, i wanna increase your need for calories first and then reduce them. I see lots of failed cuts and they usually look something like this
...


I finished my bulk eating 4500 calories, mo ryme or reason for why 4500 calories was the number and il likely see that they gained way more fat then muscle.

On the flipside now there starting there cut at 3000 and there not losing weight. That means your bulk was at least 1500 calories over maintenance. Now they go straight to 2500 and before you know it your eating 1800 cal like a bikini girl.

I want you to create enough activity or calorie demand to push calories during your bulk to a good point where your ending your bulk and your mait cal is (idk, say 3800)

Step 1 drop 200 cal.

When the scale stops moving add 10min cardio at the end of every workout,

Drop 200 cal

When the scale stops moving add a 20min session 3x a week and so on.

No1 needs to be starving until there single digit bf 6-8% you probably need to start making very stratigic moves

Yep, that is definitely an approach I have used before.

Trying to fill the biggest casket possible. Rip rich piana

Yea cutting calories is the last thing you want to do. Want to keep the body anabolic as long as possible while keeping metabolism high. As soon as calories start dropping metabolism will slow which means you have to add stims which are catabolic so now you have to increase androgen load and this cycle goes and goes until you've emptied the kitchen sink and feel like death but hey you look fantastic so uts all worth it

You had me at look fantastic!

Squats went well today, first time doing them since I tweaked my back. I moved up to 185 on my final set of 12, will be starting @175 next week and pushing up again. unfortunately i slept through about 15 minutes of my alarm so I got to the gym late, and had to finish my session at lunch. I stopped after Lunges then picked up hamstring work for lunch.

Legs - (Tuesday) Nov 21, 2023 at 4:50am

Squat (Barbell)
Set 1: 135 lbs x 12 @ 7 rpe
Set 2: 155 lbs x 12 @ 7.5 rpe
Set 3: 185 lbs x 12 @ 8.5 rpe - Start at 175 - I am happy with this, shows my back is healing. Moving onwards and upwards!

Leg Press (Machine)
Set 1: 410 lbs x 12 @ 7.5 rpe
Set 2: 450 lbs x 12 @ 8 rpe
Set 3: 450 lbs x 12 @ 9 rpe - Start @ 450

Walking Lunge (Dumbbell)
Set 1: 30 lbs x 8
Set 2: 30 lbs x 8 - Go up to 35

Romanian Deadlift (Barbell)
Set 1: 185 lbs x 15 @ 8 rpe
Set 2: 215 lbs x 12 @ 8.5 rpe
Set 3: 225 lbs x 8 @ 8.5 rpe - Start at 205

Lying Leg Curl (On Floor w/ DB)
Set 1: 45 lbs x 20 @ 8 rpe
Set 2: 60 lbs x 7 @ 10 rpe
Calf cramps from holding DB with feet - moved directly to seated leg curls

Seated Leg Curl (Machine)
Set 1: 85 lbs x 15
Set 2: 110 lbs x 10
Set 3: 100 lbs x 16 @ Fail

I went up on everything today except for the lying leg curls which was brutal on my calves today for some reason.

I chose not to do calves because they were so crampy from holding the DB off my ankles with my feet. I am going to have to figure this one out or wear my knee sleeves around my ankles to keep the DB from beating the crap out of my shins and ankles.

I went to the store last night and bought 3 lbs of black angus ground chuck and made 3 1/2lb patties for my post workout meal alongside some avocado oil slathered potato wedges. Burger and "fries" came out good and got me some nice healthy fats instead of just useless fat calories. Now it's time to eat, I have to get my last carb containing meal in now that I finished training.

 

[Hyde]

Nice work, Kleen!

Something I’ve heard Justin Harris say, that really made sense, is when you look at bb competitors who do no cardio and eat less vs guys who eat more and do more cardio, the guys who turn over more nutrients usually look better.

There are many examples of incredibly conditioned guys who do little to no cardio & get shredded, and in general for my lifestyle weightloss I prefer eating less/fasting more vs being more active…BUT, snowflakes & my bias/preference set aside, more guys hold more lean mass better eating more & doing more activity vs just eating like a bikini competitor.

There are lipid/cardiovascular benefits, as well as often improved GPP for better training if you don’t already push the density/pace in your accessory work sufficiently. But it doesn’t make cardio suck less

 

[MrKleen73]

Nice work, Kleen!

Something I’ve heard Justin Harris say, that really made sense, is when you look at bb competitors who do no cardio and eat less vs guys who eat more and do more cardio, the guys who turn over more nutrients usually look better.

There are many examples of incredibly conditioned guys who do little to no cardio & get shredded, and in general for my lifestyle weightloss I prefer eating less/fasting more vs being more active…BUT, snowflakes & my bias/preference set aside, more guys hold more lean mass better eating more & doing more activity vs just eating like a bikini competitor.

There are lipid/cardiovascular benefits, as well as often improved GPP for better training if you don’t already push the density/pace in your accessory work sufficiently. But it doesn’t make cardio suck less

Thanks!

Yeah, that does make a lot of sense. I definitely want the health benefits of it more than anything else it provides right now, but I don't mind being able to eat more at all, and if it makes me look even better then I am all for it!!!

I enjoyed the post workout refeeds the last two days too. I am full as a tick today compared to last week from just 2 days of this change, and maybe a lil leftover from Texas De Brazil. I bet by check in Saturday I will look like a different person considering I have 2 free days Thursday and Friday where he wants me to eat freely and treat as a refeed.

That being said, I am also looking forward to my cream of rice and blueberries tomorrow morning since I don't lift. I add these crystalized lemon juice packets and some splenda to it. The lemon just sets the tartness of the blueberries off and it becomes an amazing breakfast treat.

 

[jimbuick]

Thanks!

Yeah, that does make a lot of sense. I definitely want the health benefits of it more than anything else it provides right now, but I don't mind being able to eat more at all, and if it makes me look even better then I am all for it!!!

I enjoyed the post workout refeeds the last two days too. I am full as a tick today compared to last week from just 2 days of this change, and maybe a lil leftover from Texas De Brazil. I bet by check in Saturday I will look like a different person considering I have 2 free days Thursday and Friday where he wants me to eat freely and treat as a refeed.

That being said, I am also looking forward to my cream of rice and blueberries tomorrow morning since I don't lift. I add these crystalized lemon juice packets and some splenda to it. The lemon just sets the tartness of the blueberries off and it becomes an amazing breakfast treat.

I have the same post-workout meal. Thinking of just blending and drinking

 

[MrKleen73]

I have the same post-workout meal. Thinking of just blending and drinking

That works but if you want to try it the way I mentioned these are the packets.

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[jimbuick]

I’ll save the pic just in case. I’m not quite sure how I’m gonna fit the meals he wants around my training/work schedule. Probably gonna have to get creative and drink the first two while on the move to and from the gym in the AM. Probably gonna drink the last, too. Cuz I’d rather drink raw eggs than eat them but I’ll have to check with him.

 

[PolishHamm3r77]

Yeah, this is cardio, not aerobics so I am putting in some work.
Yeah, you don't want to mess around and get your heart healthy!
Well right now he is dialing it up during a weight loss phase. I imagine it may go back down a bit during regular offseason growth phase. I know when he was prepping recently before he has to call off his show he was doing 2 hours a day. I think it just comes down to where you are, and how much you need to meet the required pace for your deadline.
Yeah, I mean you are getting the benefits of additional health, and keeping your metabolism up. Other than that not tons of reasons. Some coaches push minimal cardio, and adjust through workout tempo, steps, and caloric restriction. Some push do it until you are peeled regardless how much it takes.
Agreed, and this is the real reason other than health of course.
I would be at most other times but when running gear, let's keep it in and try to help my ticker and lipids out a bit.
Yeah, it is pretty cool, I don't really know exactly what to expect out of this week. I mean we added in the post workout meal refeed, and then I get 2 free days Thursday and Friday. So, I don't really expect to see much weight come off this week if any. However, I am just trusting the process. At least he will get an ide of how quick I fill back up because I feel like I am going to blow up even with a little bit of indulging.
Facts, but it still ain't fun.
Yeah, I plan to try to keep it up to 3 times a week even after the contest. Just for health reasons.
Yeah buddy, I found an extra inch when I lost 50lbs.
Uh OH, Resolve is laying the smack down!
Yep, that is definitely an approach I have used before.

You had me at look fantastic!

Squats went well today, first time doing them since I tweaked my back. I moved up to 185 on my final set of 12, will be starting @175 next week and pushing up again. unfortunately i slept through about 15 minutes of my alarm so I got to the gym late, and had to finish my session at lunch. I stopped after Lunges then picked up hamstring work for lunch.

Legs - (Tuesday) Nov 21, 2023 at 4:50am

Squat (Barbell)
Set 1: 135 lbs x 12 @ 7 rpe
Set 2: 155 lbs x 12 @ 7.5 rpe
Set 3: 185 lbs x 12 @ 8.5 rpe - Start at 175 - I am happy with this, shows my back is healing. Moving onwards and upwards!

Leg Press (Machine)
Set 1: 410 lbs x 12 @ 7.5 rpe
Set 2: 450 lbs x 12 @ 8 rpe
Set 3: 450 lbs x 12 @ 9 rpe - Start @ 450

Walking Lunge (Dumbbell)
Set 1: 30 lbs x 8
Set 2: 30 lbs x 8 - Go up to 35

Romanian Deadlift (Barbell)
Set 1: 185 lbs x 15 @ 8 rpe
Set 2: 215 lbs x 12 @ 8.5 rpe
Set 3: 225 lbs x 8 @ 8.5 rpe - Start at 205

Lying Leg Curl (On Floor w/ DB)
Set 1: 45 lbs x 20 @ 8 rpe
Set 2: 60 lbs x 7 @ 10 rpe
Calf cramps from holding DB with feet - moved directly to seated leg curls

Seated Leg Curl (Machine)
Set 1: 85 lbs x 15
Set 2: 110 lbs x 10
Set 3: 100 lbs x 16 @ Fail

I went up on everything today except for the lying leg curls which was brutal on my calves today for some reason.

I chose not to do calves because they were so crampy from holding the DB off my ankles with my feet. I am going to have to figure this one out or wear my knee sleeves around my ankles to keep the DB from beating the crap out of my shins and ankles.

I went to the store last night and bought 3 lbs of black angus ground chuck and made 3 1/2lb patties for my post workout meal alongside some avocado oil slathered potato wedges. Burger and "fries" came out good and got me some nice healthy fats instead of just useless fat calories. Now it's time to eat, I have to get my last carb containing meal in now that I finished training.

I am reading this at 6:24 am and you had me at ANGUS BEEF .

 

[rascal14]

I was thinking - did he give you a reason as to why he wants you to “cheat” two full days this week?

id be curious since you’re early in prep if he’s almost doing it as a way to see 1. How your body responds to larger cheats and how he needs to react if you slip up (don’t see that happening you are dialed in mentally)? 2. See how quickly you bloat up to know whether you lie about a cheat in the future

 

[Segansational]

I was thinking - did he give you a reason as to why he wants you to “cheat” two full days this week?

id be curious since you’re early in prep if he’s almost doing it as a way to see 1. How your body responds to larger cheats and how he needs to react if you slip up (don’t see that happening you are dialed in mentally)? 2. See how quickly you bloat up to know whether you lie about a cheat in the future

Honestly, I wouldn't be surprised if it's that he just doesn't want him losing fat too quickly. He's still a year out from his show and looking fairly lean already. More substrate to keep working with?

 

[rascal14]

Honestly, I wouldn't be surprised if it's that he just doesn't want him losing fat too quickly. He's still a year out from his show and looking fairly lean already. More substrate to keep working with?

Could be, I guess I wasn’t thinking an entire year out either being the timeline. Plenty of time! Don’t want to burn you out in the beginning or scare him away I’m sure, he has a ton of potential.

@MrKleen73 do you have any “before” pics handy? Sometime within the last year? I feel like you’ve made significant progress recently on your own but can’t find an older pic, I’m mostly just curious for my own memory sake lol whether I’m making it up (meaning you’ve been in a great spot this whole time)

 

[Dustin07]

Squats went well today, first time doing them since I tweaked my back. I moved up to 185 on my final set of 12, will be starting @175 next week and pushing up again. unfortunately i slept through about 15 minutes of my alarm so I got to the gym late, and had to finish my session at lunch. I stopped after Lunges then picked up hamstring work for lunch.

what's your preferred/favorite lower hypertrophy lift/movement? (most bang for the buck).
I feel like front squats blow my legs up the most overall, but pause squats destroy the glutes and lunges crush my adductors.

There are many examples of incredibly conditioned guys who do little to no cardio & get shredded, and in general for my lifestyle weightloss I prefer eating less/fasting more vs being more active…BUT, snowflakes & my bias/preference set aside, more guys hold more lean mass better eating more & doing more activity vs just eating like a bikini competitor.

It makes sense to me that this would be the case although it's hard to articulate why.
Looking back on my competition days, I wish I had pounded about 1k more calories instead of being so focused on being sub 10%. I likely would have ended up 1% higher and 10lbs heavier with the out put I had, if I had fed it for growth.

 

[MrKleen73]

I’ll save the pic just in case. I’m not quite sure how I’m gonna fit the meals he wants around my training/work schedule. Probably gonna have to get creative and drink the first two while on the move to and from the gym in the AM. Probably gonna drink the last, too. Cuz I’d rather drink raw eggs than eat them Invalid Link Removed but I’ll have to check with him.

Well even if you drank it this would taste better in it. Definitely talk to him. I am sure he doesn't want you drinking raw eggs. It kind of wastes a good bid of the protein if not at least pasteurized. To make things faster, I am starting to precook my cream of rice then I just nuke it real quick drop the berries in while it is crazy hot, then give it another 30 seconds in the nuke and eat quickly with my shake. I do the same on my pre-workout meal. I have my preworkout drink as soon as I wake up then blend my pineapple smoothie and swallow 150g of banana and go straight to the gym. Surprisingly no stomach issues during the session either.

I am reading this at 6:24 am and you had me at ANGUS BEEF .

Oh yeah, why play around if I have to have 80/20 get real Black Angus with chuck steak only, no random beef parts.

I was thinking - did he give you a reason as to why he wants you to “cheat” two full days this week?

id be curious since you’re early in prep if he’s almost doing it as a way to see 1. How your body responds to larger cheats and how he needs to react if you slip up (don’t see that happening you are dialed in mentally)? 2. See how quickly you bloat up to know whether you lie about a cheat in the future

No, he didn't other than to say it was a refeed. This actually isn't prep yet, this is just offseason. He wanted to diet me down first so we can rebound back up without getting too fat. I agree, if I go all out on Thursday and Friday I will blow up big time. I think both reason 1, and 2 are probably things he will be able to glean from this experiment. The other part is I think he believes that I have been in a deficit for so long this will help me to start pushing back down over the next 2 weeks of dieting.

Honestly, I wouldn't be surprised if it's that he just doesn't want him losing fat too quickly. He's still a year out from his show and looking fairly lean already. More substrate to keep working with?

I agree with this part too. Honestly, we don't have tons of discussion. I leave my questions for him in the WhatsApp, and he normally checks back in on Saturday to see if I need more assistance. If I have a need to know question during the week I just text him and ask him to look at whatsapp. Then he will go check and leave me responses there. I imagine i could call him during the week but I am also trying not to overstep since this is a very reasonably priced set up, I don't want to abuse it.

what's your preferred/favorite lower hypertrophy lift/movement? (most bang for the buck).
I feel like front squats blow my legs up the most overall, but pause squats destroy the glutes and lunges crush my adductors.

It makes sense to me that this would be the case although it's hard to articulate why.
Looking back on my competition days, I wish I had pounded about 1k more calories instead of being so focused on being sub 10%. I likely would have ended up 1% higher and 10lbs heavier with the out put I had, if I had fed it for growth.

WOW, great question... If we are talking overall leg development, maybe leg press. I built a lot of my legs with them. Recently though I have gotten to play with things like pendulum squats which I absolutely love for quads!!! I haven't done a whole meso with them but they sure do the trick and with very little wear and tear on my body. The Arsenal True Squat facing out is also very high up on that list now. I feel it more all over than probably any other leg movement. However I haven't used it long enough to say this is now my best one. Squats are awesome but even highbar they almost never get anything sore but my adductors. Coach is big on the free weight squats though, so that is what we are doing right now. If I were choosing my exercises for legs it would most likely be True Squat facing out or pendulum for quads main movement, leg press secondary, True Squat Good Mornings for hing and stretched hamstring work, seated or lying leg curls and lunges. I can take my legs closer to failure with those safely and they honestly seem to put me in better positions for my structure than a basic squat does.

However, I see he is also trying to improve upper and lower back which have shrunk a bit since I was dealing with my T-Spine issue and definitely since i stopped Deadlifting. So I totally get the RDL's and rack pulls. I think he will probably be surprised when my back starts filling back up in the upper back area and my erectors getting bigger and bigger. They were obscene when i was deadlifting regularly. So the rack pulls are going to do the trick there for me.

Could be, I guess I wasn’t thinking an entire year out either being the timeline. Plenty of time! Don’t want to burn you out in the beginning or scare him away I’m sure, he has a ton of potential.

@MrKleen73 do you have any “before” pics handy? Sometime within the last year? I feel like you’ve made significant progress recently on your own but can’t find an older pic, I’m mostly just curious for my own memory sake lol whether I’m making it up (meaning you’ve been in a great spot this whole time)

Oh yeah, plenty time, right at about a year unless we do an earlier show for practice or something.

Sure, here are some pics of where I was when I started this log, then

Sept 30, 2023 199.2lbs - On own training and diet

Oct 14th 200lbs - still on my own training and diet here.

10/27/23 - 197.4 lbs - First check in, last photos of me from my training and diet. Everything from here is from coach. We set static calories to find my maintenance at this point.

11/11/23 - 197.6 lbs - Maintenance @2670 calories, calorie drop incoming.

I will put the most recent in another post since only 10 pictures allowed per post.

 

[MrKleen73]

11/18/23 - 194.8lbs - calorie drop worked!!!

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For sh*ts and giggles here are the first pics next to the last.
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Now from my last shots from my own diet to now.

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If you wanted to see something older then here is something from 6/23/23 at 201lbs
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[MrKleen73]

I just got most of my blood work back and am curious how he will navigate things from here. I warned him previously that my kidney markers would be off but curious once he sees them how he will react. They aren't too bad but almost all of them out of range. People get worked up over the EGFR, but I have been consistently under 60 for the past 20+ years. My kidney doctor told me I am good so long as I don't go over 1.74 and my BUN/Creatinine ratio is on point which it is right in the middle of the range, so I am good there.

I am very happy with my current lipids for having been on 600mg of gear for the last 7 weeks. Honestly, I think this might be the best my lipids have been in several years!

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All in all pretty good bloodwork. EGFR has dropped a little bit from my not on cycle numbers but it is often in the 57-58 range. I also normally do not use creatine and wonder if it converting into creatinine in my body is skewing numbers a little bit too.

 

[Hyde]

I just got most of my blood work back and am curious how he will navigate things from here. I warned him previously that my kidney markers would be off but curious once he sees them how he will react. They aren't too bad but almost all of them out of range. People get worked up over the EGFR, but I have been consistently under 60 for the past 20+ years. My kidney doctor told me I am good so long as I don't go over 1.74 and my BUN/Creatinine ratio is on point which it is right in the middle of the range, so I am good there.

I am very happy with my current lipids for having been on 600mg of gear for the last 7 weeks. Honestly, I think this might be the best my lipids have been in several years!

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All in all pretty good bloodwork. EGFR has dropped a little bit from my not on cycle numbers but it is often in the 57-58 range. I also normally do not use creatine and wonder if it converting into creatinine in my body is skewing numbers a little bit too.

I legitimately hope to have these kind of numbers on everything aside from kidney values when I get mine drawn in a couple weeks. Nothing troubling here, not in the least.

 

[MrKleen73]

I legitimately hope to have these kind of numbers on everything aside from kidney values when I get mine drawn in a couple weeks. Nothing troubling here, not in the least.

Yeah, I was really surprised to see my lipids looking so stellar! All this cardio and 5mg of Super-Cardarine a day seems to be doing the trick, even my HDL is in good standing. I am ready to start pushing as long as he doesn't panic over EGFR. I also verified that me taking creatine daily is definitely skewing these numbers a bit due to higher creatinine levels from the creatine. So I am feeling good but if he wants me too I will drop the creatine. According to the medical stuff i was researching on it though it doesn't have anything to do with my kidney function so much as creatine breaking down into creatinine in the body which skews the test to the negative.

 

[gphagan1]

Your blood work actually doesn’t look bad at all considering you have been on gear. I would be pleased with that, and even though the kidney values are slightly out, like that Doctor said it isn’t too much to worry about unless the trend keeps getting worse. Healthy clean eating goes a long ways keeping everything in order while on a cycle.
Your recent transformation pictures are impressive, but when you look at where you started in the beginning of your Project 50 comeback log to now, it’s really impressive, because truthfully, even though you have a year, you are close enough to enter earlier shows if you wanted. But I get it, if you’re only going to do a couple more, it would be more satisfying to win a bigger event.

 

[Stacks1]

I just got most of my blood work back and am curious how he will navigate things from here. I warned him previously that my kidney markers would be off but curious once he sees them how he will react. They aren't too bad but almost all of them out of range. People get worked up over the EGFR, but I have been consistently under 60 for the past 20+ years. My kidney doctor told me I am good so long as I don't go over 1.74 and my BUN/Creatinine ratio is on point which it is right in the middle of the range, so I am good there.

I am very happy with my current lipids for having been on 600mg of gear for the last 7 weeks. Honestly, I think this might be the best my lipids have been in several years!

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All in all pretty good bloodwork. EGFR has dropped a little bit from my not on cycle numbers but it is often in the 57-58 range. I also normally do not use creatine and wonder if it converting into creatinine in my body is skewing numbers a little bit too.

Do you take anything for cholesterol? Anything prescription or OTC?

 

[MrKleen73]

Your blood work actually doesn’t look bad at all considering you have been on gear. I would be pleased with that, and even though the kidney values are slightly out, like that Doctor said it isn’t too much to worry about unless the trend keeps getting worse. Healthy clean eating goes a long ways keeping everything in order while on a cycle.
Your recent transformation pictures are impressive, but when you look at where you started in the beginning of your Project 50 comeback log to now, it’s really impressive, because truthfully, even though you have a year, you are close enough to enter earlier shows if you wanted. But I get it, if you’re only going to do a couple more, it would be more satisfying to win a bigger event.

Well honestly, I am not opposed to doing earlier shows but it depends on what my coach thinks. I know we definitely want to be in the top of my weight / height class if possible so just trying to make sure he has enough time to get me right before the show. I am hoping to get into nationals after my show, I don't tend to see tons of guys in that age bracket. So really hoping I can land that. If so, I would like to be pretty close to the next show so I don't have to try to hold condition for a long time. So that is part of the reason why. However, I am going to talk with him soon once the 2024 schedule comes out so we can pick my show based on where we are and what show he thinks we can peak best for. There could be some benefit to qualifying a bit earlier then building a little and dieting back down over 2-3 months. Just depends on what he thinks is going to be best.

Do you take anything for cholesterol? Anything prescription or OTC?

I have been taking SNS Cardiovascular Support XT for about 4 months now, and also 10mg of pravastatin for a few years now, which is the lowest dose of Statin you can get. My lipids have improved since adding in the SNS supplement, but I have also been dieting and doing a lot of cardio. Still though for them to be better on cycle than they have been previously is excellent! I definitely recommend Cardiovascular Support XT to anyone trying to keep their cardiovascular system in excellent health.

 

[Stacks1]

I have been taking SNS Cardiovascular Support XT for about 4 months now, and also 10mg of pravastatin for a few years now, which is the lowest dose of Statin you can get. My lipids have improved since adding in the SNS supplement, but I have also been dieting and doing a lot of cardio. Still though for them to be better on cycle than they have been previously is excellent! I definitely recommend Cardiovascular Support XT to anyone trying to keep their cardiovascular system in excellent health.

I believe it. I used SNS Blood Pressure XT on cycle and my blood pressure was lower than when I was off cycle. And I was running orals that would typically jack up your BP. I've used a bunch of SNS products for support but don't think I've ever used Cardiovascular Support XT. I am definitely going to give that a try. For your lipids to be better on cycle than off cycle is pretty amazing. The cardarine could be playing a role too. I've never actually used cardarine before.

 

[Hyde]

I believe it. I used SNS Blood Pressure XT on cycle and my blood pressure was lower than when I was off cycle. And I was running orals that would typically jack up your BP. I've used a bunch of SNS products for support but don't think I've ever used Cardiovascular Support XT. I am definitely going to give that a try. For your lipids to be better on cycle than off cycle is pretty amazing. The cardarine could be playing a role too. I've never actually used cardarine before.

When you look at the ingredients in Cardiovascular Support XT, they are cardio-protective longterm from a lot of angles, but lowered lipids isn’t really the primary mechanism. Anti-inflammatory, antioxidant, anti-hypertensive angles are the focuses, as well as helping prevent blood clots & irregular calcium deposition. It will help blood pressure somewhat too.

Steve has a separate cholesterol support product in the works for release pretty soon he has said.

GW 100% actively lowers LDL and Trigs. That’s always a part of my cleanup phases.

And as mentioned, diet & cardio are significant contributors. I have dropped 20lbs before, stopped AAS, and still seen LDL skyrocket because of a high saturated fat keto diet & genetic predisposition with high dietary cholesterol intake.

 

[Stacks1]

When you look at the ingredients in Cardiovascular Support XT, they are cardio-protective longterm from a lot of angles, but lowered lipids isn’t really the primary mechanism. Anti-inflammatory, antioxidant, anti-hypertensive angles are the focuses, as well as helping prevent blood clots & irregular calcium deposition. It will help blood pressure somewhat too.

Steve has a separate cholesterol support product in the works for release pretty soon he has said.

GW 100% actively lowers LDL and Trigs. That’s always a part of my cleanup phases.

And as mentioned, diet & cardio are significant contributors. I have dropped 20lbs before, stopped AAS, and still seen LDL skyrocket because of a high saturated fat keto diet & genetic predisposition with high dietary cholesterol intake.

I agree, although diet is pretty complicated when it comes to cholesterol. I've seen a lot of contradicting studies regarding which foods actually help lower cholesterol. There was a study were people went far beyond their daily dietary cholesterol intake but actually lowered their LDL. I am not saying diet isn't important, it definitely is. But I don't know if there is a real consensus on what diet works for everyone in lowering cholesterol. Cardio is for sure a big help though.

 

[Hyde]

I agree, although diet is pretty complicated when it comes to cholesterol. I've seen a lot of contradicting studies regarding which foods actually help lower cholesterol. There was a study were people went far beyond their daily dietary cholesterol intake but actually lowered their LDL. I am not saying diet isn't important, it definitely is. But I don't know if there is a real consensus on what diet works for everyone in lowering cholesterol. Cardio is for sure a big help though.

I almost mentioned this, because the general verdict is that diet is minimally relevant. However, for people with familial hypercholesterolemia like myself, it is much more relevant. I can add whole eggs or fatty steaks into an isocaloric situation where I stay at maintenance and see my LDL climb. And this effects a LOT of people, something like 20% if I recall right (don’t quote me on the number, look it up). So for people with skewed lipids it’s still something to play with personally & review bloodwork.

Also, not on the composition of diet, but if losing bodyfat & especially bodyweight there IS definite correlation between improved lipid/metabolic markers. Which makes sense, because you are generally eating less overall over time. So “dieting” can be helpful, even if diet isn’t for someone.

 

[Stacks1]

I almost mentioned this, because the general verdict is that diet is minimally relevant. However, for people with familial hypercholesterolemia like myself, it is much more relevant. I can add whole eggs or fatty steaks into an isocaloric situation where I stay at maintenance and see my LDL climb. And this effects a LOT of people, something like 20% if I recall right (don’t quote me on the number, look it up). So for people with skewed lipids it’s still something to play with personally & review bloodwork.

Also, not on the composition of diet, but if losing bodyfat & especially bodyweight there IS definite correlation between improved lipid/metabolic markers. Which makes sense, because you are generally eating less overall over time. So “dieting” can be helpful, even if diet isn’t for someone.

Interesting. I have slightly high LDL but my HDL is in the 70s so it was never much of a concern. However, I've tried lowering my cholesterol intake and my numbers didn't improve. They actually slightly got worse. So I gave it up and went back to eating copious amounts of eggs and red meat.

But I think the real takeaway is to just eat a healthy diet and stay at a healthy weight. Unfortunately we cannot fight all of the genetic factors but we can do the best we can to mitigate them as much as possible. I don't believe I have familial hypercholesterolemia, so I don't focus too much on my cholesterol intake anymore. Just make sure I'm eating a healthy diet, low sugar, plenty of soluble fiber, etc.

 

[gphagan1]

Well honestly, I am not opposed to doing earlier shows but it depends on what my coach thinks. I know we definitely want to be in the top of my weight / height class if possible so just trying to make sure he has enough time to get me right before the show. I am hoping to get into nationals after my show, I don't tend to see tons of guys in that age bracket. So really hoping I can land that. If so, I would like to be pretty close to the next show so I don't have to try to hold condition for a long time. So that is part of the reason why. However, I am going to talk with him soon once the 2024 schedule comes out so we can pick my show based on where we are and what show he thinks we can peak best for. There could be some benefit to qualifying a bit earlier then building a little and dieting back down over 2-3 months. Just depends on what he thinks is going to be best.

I have been taking SNS Cardiovascular Support XT for about 4 months now, and also 10mg of pravastatin for a few years now, which is the lowest dose of Statin you can get. My lipids have improved since adding in the SNS supplement, but I have also been dieting and doing a lot of cardio. Still though for them to be better on cycle than they have been previously is excellent! I definitely recommend Cardiovascular Support XT to anyone trying to keep their cardiovascular system in excellent health.

When you look at the ingredients in Cardiovascular Support XT, they are cardio-protective longterm from a lot of angles, but lowered lipids isn’t really the primary mechanism. Anti-inflammatory, antioxidant, anti-hypertensive angles are the focuses, as well as helping prevent blood clots & irregular calcium deposition. It will help blood pressure somewhat too.

Steve has a separate cholesterol support product in the works for release pretty soon he has said.

GW 100% actively lowers LDL and Trigs. That’s always a part of my cleanup phases.

And as mentioned, diet & cardio are significant contributors. I have dropped 20lbs before, stopped AAS, and still seen LDL skyrocket because of a high saturated fat keto diet & genetic predisposition with high dietary cholesterol intake.

Yeah Steve at SNS has some great health support supplements….the Cardiovascular Support, Blood Pressure Support, and Kidney Support are all excellent products that work. And I like to add GW on cycle as well, that with a healthy diet and cardio, even an old dude like myself can stay healthy while on a cycle, as long as I don’t get stupid and carried away with too much gear.

 

[GreenMachineX]

I mean, I’m not completely unserious. I figure 40 years is a good long life, so I’ve got 9 years left in me or so.

Man, I just turned 40 last week...in another couple years you won't believe how fast the years fly by!

 

[MrKleen73]

I believe it. I used SNS Blood Pressure XT on cycle and my blood pressure was lower than when I was off cycle. And I was running orals that would typically jack up your BP. I've used a bunch of SNS products for support but don't think I've ever used Cardiovascular Support XT. I am definitely going to give that a try. For your lipids to be better on cycle than off cycle is pretty amazing. The cardarine could be playing a role too. I've never actually used cardarine before.

Oh it better be, that is why I am using it. Only 5mg daily though. I attibute more of it to a low fat diet, losing weight and plenty of cardio over the last few months.

When you look at the ingredients in Cardiovascular Support XT, they are cardio-protective longterm from a lot of angles, but lowered lipids isn’t really the primary mechanism. Anti-inflammatory, antioxidant, anti-hypertensive angles are the focuses, as well as helping prevent blood clots & irregular calcium deposition. It will help blood pressure somewhat too.

Steve has a separate cholesterol support product in the works for release pretty soon he has said.

GW 100% actively lowers LDL and Trigs. That’s always a part of my cleanup phases.

And as mentioned, diet & cardio are significant contributors. I have dropped 20lbs before, stopped AAS, and still seen LDL skyrocket because of a high saturated fat keto diet & genetic predisposition with high dietary cholesterol intake.

Yeah, GW is playing a role for sure. I have been a proponent of the fat content doesn't matter too much for years, and I can't say if it had anything to do with my current diet or the low fat intake. However I can definitely drive calories higher on low fat without getting fat as fast.

I agree, although diet is pretty complicated when it comes to cholesterol. I've seen a lot of contradicting studies regarding which foods actually help lower cholesterol. There was a study were people went far beyond their daily dietary cholesterol intake but actually lowered their LDL. I am not saying diet isn't important, it definitely is. But I don't know if there is a real consensus on what diet works for everyone in lowering cholesterol. Cardio is for sure a big help though.

Yeah, genetic predisposition or lack thereof is a big factor here.

I almost mentioned this, because the general verdict is that diet is minimally relevant. However, for people with familial hypercholesterolemia like myself, it is much more relevant. I can add whole eggs or fatty steaks into an isocaloric situation where I stay at maintenance and see my LDL climb. And this effects a LOT of people, something like 20% if I recall right (don’t quote me on the number, look it up). So for people with skewed lipids it’s still something to play with personally & review bloodwork.

Also, not on the composition of diet, but if losing bodyfat & especially bodyweight there IS definite correlation between improved lipid/metabolic markers. Which makes sense, because you are generally eating less overall over time. So “dieting” can be helpful, even if diet isn’t for someone.

Wow, 20% that's relatively common then.

Interesting. I have slightly high LDL but my HDL is in the 70s so it was never much of a concern. However, I've tried lowering my cholesterol intake and my numbers didn't improve. They actually slightly got worse. So I gave it up and went back to eating copious amounts of eggs and red meat.

But I think the real takeaway is to just eat a healthy diet and stay at a healthy weight. Unfortunately we cannot fight all of the genetic factors but we can do the best we can to mitigate them as much as possible. I don't believe I have familial hypercholesterolemia, so I don't focus too much on my cholesterol intake anymore. Just make sure I'm eating a healthy diet, low sugar, plenty of soluble fiber, etc.

Agreed maintaining a healthy diet and weight is key.

Yeah Steve at SNS has some great health support supplements….the Cardiovascular Support, Blood Pressure Support, and Kidney Support are all excellent products that work. And I like to add GW on cycle as well, that with a healthy diet and cardio, even an old dude like myself can stay healthy while on a cycle, as long as I don’t get stupid and carried away with too much gear.

100%

Man, I just turned 40 last week...in another couple years you won't believe how fast the years fly by!

No doubt, and my aches and pains may be worse but my life keeps getting better!!!

I just finished up my cardio.

Elliptical 35 minutes + cooldown - Heart Rate 140-150 = 436 calories.

 

[jimbuick]

Man, I just turned 40 last week...in another couple years you won't believe how fast the years fly by!

I’d like them to go faster tbh.

 

[Stacks1]

I’d like them to go faster tbh.

I don't know if you're joking around or being serious with your posts, but if you're being serious then maybe you should consider talking to someone. I don't mean that to sound rude or offensive. It's meant to be a serious suggestion because we all go through tough periods in our lives and have difficulty sometimes handling it properly. The worst thing is having to look back and have regrets over things we did that permanently affected us.

 

[rascal14]

Do you all use GW for anything other than lipids? I’ve always been weary due to original cancer claims so I never looked further into it.

 

[jimbuick]

I don't know if you're joking around or being serious with your posts, but if you're being serious then maybe you should consider talking to someone. I don't mean that to sound rude or offensive. It's meant to be a serious suggestion because we all go through tough periods in our lives and have difficulty sometimes handling it properly. The worst thing is having to look back and have regrets over things we did that permanently affected us.

Oh, I absolutely do have a therapist lol (or did). I’m between insurance now, so I’m gonna have to get a new one in January.

 

[MrKleen73]

Do you all use GW for anything other than lipids? I’ve always been weary due to original cancer claims so I never looked further into it.

Rather than trying to re-explain it all again here, I have quoted a post from my SR9009 log a few years back. This was the study / review that reassured me that it was okay to user PPAR agonists, and why it would cause cancer in rats/mice but not humans.

The Role of PPAR's in Cancer

A bit of educational information on PPAR's and cancer. There has been A LOT of concern from many researchers regarding the role of PPAR's in cancer. Many of the PPAR's tested in mice lead to cancerous tumors in testing. This includes cardarine, or should I say cardarine was the PPAR research product that really brought this concern to light for researchers.

I decided to do a little research there and found this article recently that said although the PPAR agonist caused cancer in mice that they do not seem to cause the same problem in humans. It explained the process at which they found this out and why it is that way. Has to do with how the liver processes it. The liver of the mice is unable to handle it due to a higher sensitivity level or something along those lines. Either way it alleviates my concerns on the studies that reported PPAR's causing cancer in mice.

It is here if you would like to read it.

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Oh, I absolutely do have a therapist lol (or did). I’m between insurance now, so I’m gonna have to get a new one in January.

Good, we want you to keep your d*ckhead self around. We like ya for some reason! When you coming back down again? Didn't you say it would be relatively soon?

I took some shots of myself this morning for my coach for a before and after the 2 day refeed. So he definitely wants to see the difference in:
A) how I look after 4 days into the week on the new plan
B) what the refeed does to my body.

To assist him with this I am thinking I may just take pictures today of anything off plan and send to him to give him an idea of what I put down to get to what he sees on Saturday. He has not asked that of me but I think more data is better data.

Anyway, if anyone wants I can post them up but I don't want to inundate you all with pictures that may not show tons of change. However, if you all are interested in seeing the effects of changes in nutrition on my physique then I have no problem posting them regularly.

I am up to 196.2 lbs from 194.4 with the new changes and as far as I can tell I just filled out, no less lean and possibly leaner.

I am about to go get my Thanksgiving Session on. So I am going to gobble gobble gobble up the gains! Oh yeah, I just went full fugging cheesy on you all!

Happy Thanksgiving to my AM Family!!!!! I hope you all have an awesome long weekend, and truly enjoy the time with your families! Anyone outside the US, Happy Thursday Bitchez!!!!

 

[PolishHamm3r77]

Rather than trying to re-explain it all again here, I have quoted a post from my SR9009 log a few years back. This was the study / review that reassured me that it was okay to user PPAR agonists, and why it would cause cancer in rats/mice but not humans.

Good, we want you to keep your d*ckhead self around. We like ya for some reason! When you coming back down again? Didn't you say it would be relatively soon?

I took some shots of myself this morning for my coach for a before and after the 2 day refeed. So he definitely wants to see the difference in:
A) how I look after 4 days into the week on the new plan
B) what the refeed does to my body.

To assist him with this I am thinking I may just take pictures today of anything off plan and send to him to give him an idea of what I put down to get to what he sees on Saturday. He has not asked that of me but I think more data is better data.

Anyway, if anyone wants I can post them up but I don't want to inundate you all with pictures that may not show tons of change. However, if you all are interested in seeing the effects of changes in nutrition on my physique then I have no problem posting them regularly.

I am up to 196.2 lbs from 194.4 with the new changes and as far as I can tell I just filled out, no less lean and possibly leaner.

I am about to go get my Thanksgiving Session on. So I am going to gobble gobble gobble up the gains! Oh yeah, I just went full fugging cheesy on you all!

Happy Thanksgiving to my AM Family!!!!! I hope you all have an awesome long weekend, and truly enjoy the time with your families! Anyone outside the US, Happy Thursday Bitchez!!!!

Happy Thanksgiving to you and yours!!!…

 

[GreenMachineX]

Do you all use GW for anything other than lipids? I’ve always been weary due to original cancer claims so I never looked further into it.

Same exact concern and can't get over it lol. Apparently the cardio/endurance benefits are pretty awesome, but I haven't tried it.

 

[MrKleen73]

Same exact concern and can't get over it lol. Apparently the cardio/endurance benefits are pretty awesome, but I haven't tried it.

Check out that link, it may help may not but worth the read if curious.

 

[GreenMachineX]

Check out that link, it may help may not but worth the read if curious.

Right on. Thanks.

 

[jimbuick]

I think I’m coming down for the weekend before Christmas.

 

[gphagan1]

Happy Thanksgiving