Tell Us What You Would Like to See From SNS & CEL (2023 Edition)

[sns8778]

Any update on focus xt? really been missing this my all time favorite

Some of the flavors are in process now. I miss it too and want it back more than anyone haha.

I'm really hoping that we will have some flavors back in in around a month or so; but with the way lead times are on flavored powders in this industry right now, its hard to say for sure.

 

[jh1]

Looking forward to stocking back up on Immune Support XT and Focus XT. On a related note, I would love to see a "Focus XT Performance" variant released down the road. Basically the the exact current Focus XT formula, but with a few add ons.... Agmatine, citrulline malate, vaso 6, maybe some Peak O2 and creatinol-O-phosphate? Basically what I already add in with Focus XT, but combined into a single formula. I know you already have a ton of stuff in the works, so you probably already have something like this covered....but figured I'd put my request in anyway

 

[sns8778]

Looking forward to stocking back up on Immune Support XT and Focus XT. On a related note, I would love to see a "Focus XT Performance" variant released down the road. Basically the the exact current Focus XT formula, but with a few add ons.... Agmatine, citrulline malate, vaso 6, maybe some Peak O2 and creatinol-O-phosphate? Basically what I already add in with Focus XT, but combined into a single formula. I know you already have a ton of stuff in the works, so you probably already have something like this covered....but figured I'd put my request in anyway

Thank you.

I'm always glad to hear ideas and suggestions.

Once we get Focus XT back in stock, I had been considering doing a higher stim version of it and also a version of it that would be more like a nootropic pre-workout. It wouldn't be exactly what you had listed, but most of it plus more.

 

[Hyde]

Thank you.

I'm always glad to hear ideas and suggestions.

Once we get Focus XT back in stock, I had been considering doing a higher stim version of it and also a version of it that would be more like a nootropic pre-workout. It wouldn't be exactly what you had listed, but most of it plus more.

That would be so cool to see!

 

[Slims]

How about a localised topical arachidonic acid gel? All of the benefits of ARA, but a targetted/muscle group specific dosage instead of general all over.
I know this is more XPG than SNS/CEL, but I know SNS Steve formulates for XPG.

 

[sns8778]

How about a localised topical arachidonic acid gel? All of the benefits of ARA, but a targetted/muscle group specific dosage instead of general all over.
I know this is more XPG than SNS/CEL, but I know SNS Steve formulates for XPG.

Thank you for the suggestion. Muscle and XPG discussion is fine and welcome here in this thread.

I've never had anyone ask about that before - I would have to research it a little myself to see if it would be a good candidate for more of a localized benefit.

 

[schizm]

Thank you for the suggestion. Muscle and XPG discussion is fine and welcome here in this thread.

I've never had anyone ask about that before - I would have to research it a little myself to see if it would be a good candidate for more of a localized benefit.

ARA is included in EvoMuse's topical Top Muscle, fwiw. Great product, a standalone ARA topical would be worth trying out, for me at least.

 

[BigGame84]

How about a localised topical arachidonic acid gel? All of the benefits of ARA, but a targetted/muscle group specific dosage instead of general all over.
I know this is more XPG than SNS/CEL, but I know SNS Steve formulates for XPG.

This is intriguing but you have to be careful where you would be applying topical ARA because it could wreck joints.

 

[sns8778]

ARA is included in EvoMuse's topical Top Muscle, fwiw. Great product, a standalone ARA topical would be worth trying out, for me at least.

I honestly haven't looked at anything by Evomuse in a long time so I'm not sure what is in some of their things or which ones they still have available.

I'm open to most any ideas so its something I'll be glad to look into.

 

[DieselNY]

This is intriguing but you have to be careful where you would be applying topical ARA because it could wreck joints.

ARA is included in EvoMuse's topical Top Muscle, fwiw. Great product, a standalone ARA topical would be worth trying out, for me at least.

I remember this from a couple years back and you definitely have to be careful where you apply it if I'm not mistaken I remember it was hurting if I was too close to my elbows Etc. So unsure how practical a topical Ara is. But Steve knows more than me.

If Ara has zero bioavailability issues orally then I say why fix what's not broken.

Then again there are people (admittedly like me) who love anything topical because it feels, at least in my head like it's doing more almost like an injection sort of a topi-placebo...

 

[Slims]

This is intriguing but you have to be careful where you would be applying topical ARA because it could wreck joints.

This was alongside my line of thinking with the idea. In theory having ARA as a localised topical could prevent the potential joint issues associated with ARA. Instead of increased inflammation over the entire body, which you get from ingested and gastrically absorbed ARA, it would be localised/targetted at the specific muscle group(s).

 

[Slims]

X-Gels(ARA) is one of the best natty products for strength and size gains. Having it as a concentrated and localised topical could make it even better, increase it's efficiancy, minimize the side effects and open it up to a wider audience... For example, people with joint related auto-immune disorders.

 

[Ziyo]

No, it isn't. We are just out of stock at the moment. I hope to have it back in within the next 6 weeks and there will be some slight changes to it - not losing any ingredients, adding something and increasing the dosages of a couple things.

Just wanted to add something to it to help it be even better for seasonal allergy support.

Damn I like the sound of that
I really liked the old one and I’m gonna enjoy this one even more because I get allergies really bad like non stop sneezing..

 

[sns8778]

Damn I like the sound of that
I really liked the old one and I’m gonna enjoy this one even more because I get allergies really bad like non stop sneezing..

I have terrible allergies myself and that's what got me to thinking about adjusting the formula to make it more comprehensive for allergies as well.

 

[sns8778]

This was alongside my line of thinking with the idea. In theory having ARA as a localised topical could prevent the potential joint issues associated with ARA. Instead of increased inflammation over the entire body, which you get from ingested and gastrically absorbed ARA, it would be localised/targetted at the specific muscle group(s).

I think it could be done but I do have concerns with it.

The main concern being that even with a localized carrier some of it would still go systemic. We could minimize how much would go systemic, but its impossible to have zero go systemic.

X-Gels(ARA) is one of the best natty products for strength and size gains. Having it as a concentrated and localised topical could make it even better, increase it's efficiancy, minimize the side effects and open it up to a wider audience... For example, people with joint related auto-immune disorders.

I am interested and do think this could have potential. I would ideally like to think of something to add with it.

As someone with an auto-immune disorder myself, I would honestly still have to tell people with autoimmune disorders to avoid any product with ARA in it just to be on the safe side. Or if they are going to use it, to start off with an absolutely minimal dose and make sure it doesn't bother them.

 

[Oliver Kween]

Hello @sns8778 Do you remember? When I briefly mentioned a topic about D ribose.
And since some research, I found this, regarding the side effects. These seem strange and rather to be avoided.

Side effects
Keep in mind that the safety profile of D-ribose is relatively difficult to determine given the lack of well-designed clinical studies. The list of side effects below is not definitive, and you should consult your doctor about other potential side effects based on your medical condition and possible interactions with medications or supplements. Consult a doctor if you notice any severe or mild and persistent side effects after D-ribose supplementation.
By inducing protein aggregation and rapidly producing AGEs (advanced glycation end products), D-ribose may be involved in cellular dysfunction and cognitive impairment [31, 32].

D-ribose in glycation and protein aggregation - PubMed (nih.gov)

And

Rapid glycation with D-ribose induces amyloid-like globular aggregations of BSA with high cytotoxicity for SH-SY5Y cells - PMC (nih.gov)

Now, I'm not sure if it's a good idea to consume it...

Invalid Link Removed

Invalid Link Removed

 

[Slims]

I think it could be done but I do have concerns with it.

The main concern being that even with a localized carrier some of it would still go systemic. We could minimize how much would go systemic, but its impossible to have zero go systemic.



I am interested and do think this could have potential. I would ideally like to think of something to add with it.

As someone with an auto-immune disorder myself, I would honestly still have to tell people with autoimmune disorders to avoid any product with ARA in it just to be on the safe side. Or if they are going to use it, to start off with an absolutely minimal dose and make sure it doesn't bother them.

I totally understand that anything topical couldn't be 100% localised, but it could mitigate the more common (potential) side effect.

When you say you'd like to add something to it, would that be to increase the effects of ARA or to decrease the potential for joint pain? Something like laxogenin maybe, which increases joint comfort but without being an anti-inflammatory and therefore not interfere or counteract the pro-inflammatory response/effects of ARA. Whilst also adding a little extra natty anabolic kick itself.

 

[sns8778]

Hello @sns8778 Do you remember? When I briefly mentioned a topic about D ribose.
And since some research, I found this, regarding the side effects. These seem strange and rather to be avoided.

Side effects
Keep in mind that the safety profile of D-ribose is relatively difficult to determine given the lack of well-designed clinical studies. The list of side effects below is not definitive, and you should consult your doctor about other potential side effects based on your medical condition and possible interactions with medications or supplements. Consult a doctor if you notice any severe or mild and persistent side effects after D-ribose supplementation.
By inducing protein aggregation and rapidly producing AGEs (advanced glycation end products), D-ribose may be involved in cellular dysfunction and cognitive impairment [31, 32].

D-ribose in glycation and protein aggregation - PubMed (nih.gov)

And

Rapid glycation with D-ribose induces amyloid-like globular aggregations of BSA with high cytotoxicity for SH-SY5Y cells - PMC (nih.gov)

Now, I'm not sure if it's a good idea to consume it...

Invalid Link Removed

Invalid Link Removed

We don't use Ribose in any products.

I think its overrated for athletic purposes anyway and is very expensive for what it is.

 

[sns8778]

I totally understand that anything topical couldn't be 100% localised, but it could mitigate the more common (potential) side effect.

When you say you'd like to add something to it, would that be to increase the effects of ARA or to decrease the potential for joint pain? Something like laxogenin maybe, which increases joint comfort but without being an anti-inflammatory and therefore not interfere or counteract the pro-inflammatory response/effects of ARA. Whilst also adding a little extra natty anabolic kick itself.

I didn't mean it in either of those ways. I was thinking more along the lines of just another good ingredient to help the formula sell better.

ARA is a very beloved ingredient by a lot of people that like it, but overall it really doesn't sell very well.

The FDA has Laxogenin on its list of things that it says don't meet the legal definition of a dietary supplement, so I doubt we would add that to anything. But yes, something along those lines.

 

[TommyTuffGuy]

Monthly Libido SNS Supplement check!

 

[sns8778]

Monthly Libido SNS Supplement check!

Labels for Libido Boost XT are done, formulas done, etc. The labels should go to print either tomorrow or next week, so then its just a matter of fitting it in the production lineup.

There are a lot of new products that we're wanting to bring out - we are just also focusing on increasing existing inventory levels on good selling products as well, so its just a process. I wish it was a quicker one.

 

[Brianmc83]

Labels for Libido Boost XT are done, formulas done, etc. The labels should go to print either tomorrow or next week, so then its just a matter of fitting it in the production lineup.

There are a lot of new products that we're wanting to bring out - we are just also focusing on increasing existing inventory levels on good selling products as well, so its just a process. I wish it was a quicker one.

Any chance you release formula in advance?

 

[sns8778]

Any chance you release formula in advance?

If we do, it would be a week or two in advance. I don't like to release the formulas of things until I have a concrete ETA for them.

 

[Ziyo]

I’m eagerly waiting for prostate support, daily gains and melatonin free sleep formula )

 

[sns8778]

I’m eagerly waiting for prostate support, daily gains and melatonin free sleep formula )

Thank you. I'm looking forward to those myself.

We've been really focused on getting existing inventory levels up, but starting in about a month, it should be a fun rest of the year for new product releases.

 

[sns8778]

I wanted to let everyone know that we just received several items back in stock:

• Api-Plex
• Phosphatidic Acid XT
• Recomp20
• SYN-30

For a limited time, you can save 20% off on all of these with coupon code: backinstock20

 

[sns8778]

I need some input and a 'show of hands' on who would want us to do a Tribulus Aquaticus product like the old USP Labs Prime or Precision Research's Primal?

I can get the raw materials no problem, so its just a matter of if enough people really want us to do it or not.

 

[thescience]

I need some input and a 'show of hands' on who would want us to do a Tribulus Aquaticus product like the old USP Labs Prime or Precision Research's Primal?

I can get the raw materials no problem, so its just a matter of if enough people really want us to do it or not.

Im totally in. Would also beta test if there are any doubts. For those of you who dont know, this was a product that usplasb released with the most outrageous claims of gains in strength and muscle, and for many people it delivered. It came with a chart projecting major strength increases around the 3-4 week mark, and around week 3 i believe i just decided to lump an additional 90lbs to my bench

 

[Beau]

I need some input and a 'show of hands' on who would want us to do a Tribulus Aquaticus product like the old USP Labs Prime or Precision Research's Primal?

I can get the raw materials no problem, so its just a matter of if enough people really want us to do it or not.

I think I'd give it a go. In your opinion, is this superior to Tribulus Terrestris? Is it primarily used to enhance libido, like Tribulus Terrestris. Sorry for my lack of familiarity/knowledge of the differences.

 

[sns8778]

Im totally in. Would also beta test if there are any doubts. For those of you who dont know, this was a product that usplasb released with the most outrageous claims of gains in strength and muscle, and for many people it delivered. It came with a chart projecting major strength increases around the 3-4 week mark, and around week 3 i believe i just decided to lump an additional 90lbs to my bench

Thank you.

Honestly, the days of being able to beta test things are gone - at least for companies like us that are cGMP compliant. The reason is that everything we do and offer is manufactured by cGMP compliant contract manufacturers and includes ingredient testing, finished product testing, etc. So for that reason, everything that we do is done has to be done in commercial size runs. We can do smaller size runs on some things on single ingredient products for first runs to see if they sell alright, but we're still talking 500 units or so.

I would never market any of the wild claims that USP Labs did, but a lot of people did seem to like it.

I also always say when it comes to the old USP Labs stuff, there were also the rumors and possibilities that there was more in some of their products than the labels said - so we can match the ingredients in terms of declared active ingredients, but if there was anything else in there, then that we can't. But on this particular one, a lot of people said that they did get similar results from Precision Research Primal when it was available, so that would lead me to think that the ingredient itself is going to deliver good results.

 

[sns8778]

I think I'd give it a go. In your opinion, is this superior to Tribulus Terrestris? Is it primarily used to enhance libido, like Tribulus Terrestris. Sorry for my lack of familiarity/knowledge of the differences.

I think its completely different from Tribulus Terrestris. Tribulus Terrestris is great for libido whereas this type is more for building muscle.

Nothing to be sorry for at all - most people don't know the differences. That's one of my worries with this, that people may categorize it in with or confuse it with the type of Tribulus they're more familiar with and not understand the differences and why it would be more expensive.

 

[GQdaLEGEND]

I agree i think the ingredient wasnt all that bad .. im a fan of orignal trib .. i get made fun of alot but what can i say i react to it

as for USP labs prime .. their claims and marking it for $50-60 threw alot of OGs off, back then we didn't had inflation lol

 

[sns8778]

I agree i think the ingredient wasnt all that bad .. im a fan of orignal trib .. i get made fun of alot but what can i say i react to it

as for USP labs prime .. their claims and marking it for $50-60 threw alot of OGs off, back then we didn't had inflation lol

Tribulus-750 is a good seller for us.

Tribulus in general is one of those things that here on AM its like some people are just pre-programmed to bash on Tribulus, some because of old marketing claims that some brands made, but a lot of people now days just put something down bc it seems to be the cool thing to do. But it does work very well for libido in a lot of people.

 

[ELROCK]

I need some input and a 'show of hands' on who would want us to do a Tribulus Aquaticus product like the old USP Labs Prime or Precision Research's Primal?

I can get the raw materials no problem, so its just a matter of if enough people really want us to do it or not.

I would give it a try.

 

[thescience]

Thank you.

Honestly, the days of being able to beta test things are gone - at least for companies like us that are cGMP compliant. The reason is that everything we do and offer is manufactured by cGMP compliant contract manufacturers and includes ingredient testing, finished product testing, etc. So for that reason, everything that we do is done has to be done in commercial size runs. We can do smaller size runs on some things on single ingredient products for first runs to see if they sell alright, but we're still talking 500 units or so.

I would never market any of the wild claims that USP Labs did, but a lot of people did seem to like it.

I also always say when it comes to the old USP Labs stuff, there were also the rumors and possibilities that there was more in some of their products than the labels said - so we can match the ingredients in terms of declared active ingredients, but if there was anything else in there, then that we can't. But on this particular one, a lot of people said that they did get similar results from Precision Research Primal when it was available, so that would lead me to think that the ingredient itself is going to deliver good results.

i can testify the wild claims were 100% true with Prime. The fact that so many people believe it was spiked should speak to it's effectiveness. was it spiked? i doubt it. it was widely distributed and there were plenty of guys who passed contest drugtests when taking it. i took it from the first batch until Primal stopped being made; that's a span of quite a few years of continuous use with no sides. nothing horrible happened when i got off of it

 

[thescience]

personally, building muscle to lose fat is where it's at. If youre taking something that lets you lift more and get more muscle, the body is going to burn massive calories just having that muscle. anyone who lifts weights and hasnt tried it should be interested. there definately arent any issues with absorption, as im the King of not absorbing something due to larger molecular sizing, but there were nonresponders for sure. i wondered if the glucocorticoid explanation was accurate and thought maybe people who didnt respond were among the demograph of folks that produce something like 3x the cortisol in a day as others; as i recall there were very expensive strategies people posted on here involving higher doses that got some people to respond when they were nonresponders. i had actually gotten my aldosterone tested once; at the time i was theorizing mine was low and that this may explain why im a creatine non-responder. the explanation that somepeople are naturally always topped off with creatine doesnt sit well with me. anyway, my aldosterone was a 4 on a 30 point scale. still within healthy range, but a huge difference from others in that range for sure. anyway, i wondered if thats why Prime helped me so much, ie less to suppress

 

[sns8778]

i can testify the wild claims were 100% true with Prime. The fact that so many people believe it was spiked should speak to it's effectiveness. was it spiked? i doubt it. it was widely distributed and there were plenty of guys who passed contest drugtests when taking it. i took it from the first batch until Primal stopped being made; that's a span of quite a few years of continuous use with no sides. nothing horrible happened when i got off of it

I think that me main reason that some people felt like it may have been spiked was because of the issues that came out about some other USP Labs products. When something like that happens, it casts uncertainty over different things sometimes.

My disclaimer is nothing against USP at all - I always give that disclaimer when anyone asks us to do anything like an old USP Labs product because back when I used to not say that, a lot of people would post and say how they thought their old products may have been spiked and it would then seem to create an air of uncertainty over it. So I always try to address it from the word go - and just state that yes, we can do a product like _____ and I can source the same raw materials for it and therefore it should work exactly the same assuming that the ingredients on the label were all that was in there.

I'm glad to hear that you had such good luck with it.

Would you say that your results with Precision Research's Primal was the exact same as with USP Labs Prime?

The reason I'm asking is that while I can't speak on or don't really have an opinion on whether there was anything else in USP's, I do believe that Primal was exactly what it was supposed to be. So, if I was asked if we could do a product exactly like Primal, the answer would be yes, exactly.

 

[sns8778]

personally, building muscle to lose fat is where it's at. If youre taking something that lets you lift more and get more muscle, the body is going to burn massive calories just having that muscle. anyone who lifts weights and hasnt tried it should be interested. there definately arent any issues with absorption, as im the King of not absorbing something due to larger molecular sizing, but there were nonresponders for sure. i wondered if the glucocorticoid explanation was accurate and thought maybe people who didnt respond were among the demograph of folks that produce something like 3x the cortisol in a day as others; as i recall there were very expensive strategies people posted on here involving higher doses that got some people to respond when they were nonresponders. i had actually gotten my aldosterone tested once; at the time i was theorizing mine was low and that this may explain why im a creatine non-responder. the explanation that somepeople are naturally always topped off with creatine doesnt sit well with me. anyway, my aldosterone was a 4 on a 30 point scale. still within healthy range, but a huge difference from others in that range for sure. anyway, i wondered if thats why Prime helped me so much, ie less to suppress

It's actually interesting that you wrote that - about building muscle to lose fat. I preach that all the time and a lot of times, I feel like I'm just ready to beat my head into my desk with the way some people respond to it. Like me currently, I was just able to start back training in June after not being able to lift for almost a year and a half after getting run over by a car. I had lost all my muscle and gained a lot of fat. I lost 40 lbs. between Feb. and June with just diet and supplements but no exercise. Finally in June, I was able to start back doing some light training. I want to lose more fat, but my priority was building back muscle - and of course, enter the negativity of where a lot of people had to tell me how you can't do that at one time and I'm like - uh, yeah, you can, I've done it. I'm doing a massive supplement regimen (Anabolic XT, Anabolic Effect, Recomp20, Ecdy-Plex, Phosphatidic Acid XT) right now along with diet and training regimen that I know works best for me, I'm about 4 weeks into it and I've gained almost 20 lbs. and have lost a half inch around my belly button while getting a lot leaner in my shoulders, arms, and chest. That's how it tends to work for me, its like fat loss starts there and works its way down.

As a company owner, I don't post a log or anything bc I feel like most people would just think I was biased or wouldn't believe it anyway, so when I speak of my own results, its normally a casual comment or using myself as an example to encourage someone else. But like last week, someone posted that I couldn't be gaining that much muscle and losing fat at the same time - and I'm like, yeah, according to the scale, my mirror, and my measurements, I am. And plus, a couple of the people I know on here very well, I send them pictures monthly just for accountability purposes bc I do better when I know someone is going to be seeing it.

Sorry if that came off as rambling, just super agree with what you said there - about the impact that building muscle can have on fat loss.

Back to the supplement part of the discussion - I agree there too - I don't think that there are any absorption issues with the ingredient, but I do think that there are going to be some people that respond better to it than others; which I think is the case with many herbal ingredients.

Your explanation makes sense on the reason that it may have helped you more than it does some people.

I think with a lot of things there are little tips and tricks that can be done to maximize results in general. Even with my own personal supply regimen, I hate the word synergistic because its so overused now days, so I'll say I'm very strategic about the things I stack and take together based on the way that they can enhance the benefits of one another.

 

[thescience]

I think that me main reason that some people felt like it may have been spiked was because of the issues that came out about some other USP Labs products. When something like that happens, it casts uncertainty over different things sometimes.

My disclaimer is nothing against USP at all - I always give that disclaimer when anyone asks us to do anything like an old USP Labs product because back when I used to not say that, a lot of people would post and say how they thought their old products may have been spiked and it would then seem to create an air of uncertainty over it. So I always try to address it from the word go - and just state that yes, we can do a product like _____ and I can source the same raw materials for it and therefore it should work exactly the same assuming that the ingredients on the label were all that was in there.

I'm glad to hear that you had such good luck with it.

Would you say that your results with Precision Research's Primal was the exact same as with USP Labs Prime?

The reason I'm asking is that while I can't speak on or don't really have an opinion on whether there was anything else in USP's, I do believe that Primal was exactly what it was supposed to be. So, if I was asked if we could do a product exactly like Primal, the answer would be yes, exactly.

so i didnt see any letdown in benefits when switching to primal, but when i got off primal it isnt like i saw an immediate plunge either. the short answer is i dont have a clear recollection of the timeframes for how long i took primal (possibly years, as i made a stash when production stopped) and how long it was before i lost significant strength after dropping primal (possibly 6 months to a year)

with regards to USPlabs, it is very rare that executives go to jail for their breech. they had the book thrown at them because they were total dirtbags during the proceedings. for example, they got caught selling off inventory anyway of their aegiline despite whatever injunctions were involved. there was other stuff they did that without doubt paint them as totally shady; i just dont think they spent more money adding secret illegal ingredients trying to make people more jacked

 

[sns8778]

so i didnt see any letdown in benefits when switching to primal, but when i got off primal it isnt like i saw an immediate plunge either. the short answer is i dont have a clear recollection of the timeframes for how long i took primal (possibly years, as i made a stash when production stopped) and how long it was before i lost significant strength after dropping primal (possibly 6 months to a year)

with regards to USPlabs, it is very rare that executives go to jail for their breech. they had the book thrown at them because they were total dirtbags during the proceedings. for example, they got caught selling off inventory anyway of their aegiline despite whatever injunctions were involved. there was other stuff they did that without doubt paint them as totally shady; i just dont think they spent more money adding secret illegal ingredients trying to make people more jacked

I wasn't talking about the whole legal issue with USP - I was talking about the one where some products had been tested and had things in them that the labels didn't declare. That was part of some separate issues for them. I think that's why a lot of people felt like there may have been some extra's in other things.

That's why I think that Primal really is the measuring stick - because it wouldn't have applied to that product, so if that one worked the same as the USP Labs one, then that gives just a little further assurance if that makes sense.

I think its a good indicator that you still continued to get the same type of results from Primal and didn't see a drop when you stopped Primal. I think that's the advantage to a lot of good natural products anyway is that unlike a lot of other things, you can generally keep your gains from them.


Prime was a 120 capsule (and may have been a 150 cap at one time), Primal was a 150 capsule; I'm thinking of doing either a 150 or a 180 capsule.

Now, I just need to think of a good name for it.

 

[thescience]

It's actually interesting that you wrote that - about building muscle to lose fat. I preach that all the time and a lot of times, I feel like I'm just ready to beat my head into my desk with the way some people respond to it. Like me currently, I was just able to start back training in June after not being able to lift for almost a year and a half after getting run over by a car. I had lost all my muscle and gained a lot of fat. I lost 40 lbs. between Feb. and June with just diet and supplements but no exercise. Finally in June, I was able to start back doing some light training. I want to lose more fat, but my priority was building back muscle - and of course, enter the negativity of where a lot of people had to tell me how you can't do that at one time and I'm like - uh, yeah, you can, I've done it. I'm doing a massive supplement regimen (Anabolic XT, Anabolic Effect, Recomp20, Ecdy-Plex, Phosphatidic Acid XT) right now along with diet and training regimen that I know works best for me, I'm about 4 weeks into it and I've gained almost 20 lbs. and have lost a half inch around my belly button while getting a lot leaner in my shoulders, arms, and chest. That's how it tends to work for me, its like fat loss starts there and works its way down.

As a company owner, I don't post a log or anything bc I feel like most people would just think I was biased or wouldn't believe it anyway, so when I speak of my own results, its normally a casual comment or using myself as an example to encourage someone else. But like last week, someone posted that I couldn't be gaining that much muscle and losing fat at the same time - and I'm like, yeah, according to the scale, my mirror, and my measurements, I am. And plus, a couple of the people I know on here very well, I send them pictures monthly just for accountability purposes bc I do better when I know someone is going to be seeing it.

Sorry if that came off as rambling, just super agree with what you said there - about the impact that building muscle can have on fat loss.

Back to the supplement part of the discussion - I agree there too - I don't think that there are any absorption issues with the ingredient, but I do think that there are going to be some people that respond better to it than others; which I think is the case with many herbal ingredients.

Your explanation makes sense on the reason that it may have helped you more than it does some people.

I think with a lot of things there are little tips and tricks that can be done to maximize results in general. Even with my own personal supply regimen, I hate the word synergistic because its so overused now days, so I'll say I'm very strategic about the things I stack and take together based on the way that they can enhance the benefits of one another.

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totally. yeah. muscle vs fat. same weight. youre right ive met plenty of people that dont know this. also, i feel like fat burned off with cardio, for example, comes back fast. i think it took me 7 days to lose everything i had accomplished from cardio for my waist in a year. fat loss that resulted from muscle gain takes longer to comeback because the muscles dont just vanish after a week

 

[jh1]

I need some input and a 'show of hands' on who would want us to do a Tribulus Aquaticus product like the old USP Labs Prime or Precision Research's Primal?

I can get the raw materials no problem, so its just a matter of if enough people really want us to do it or not.

I'm not familiar with either of the original supplements containing tribulus aquaticus, but I'm definitely willing to give an SNS version a run

 

[sns8778]

I'm not familiar with either of the original supplements containing tribulus aquaticus, but I'm definitely willing to give and SNS version a run

Thank you. I appreciate that.

I've never tried either of those brands products either, but would be curious to try it for myself if we do one.

I'm leaning towards doing at least a small run of it to see how it goes.

We already have a ton of new cool product releases lined up, but something like this can be scheduled in pretty easily.

 

[TheMrMuscle]

I tried googling tribulus aquaticus as im not familiar with it but couldnt come up with much. Whats the mechanisms it works through?

 

[sns8778]

I tried googling tribulus aquaticus as im not familiar with it but couldnt come up with much. Whats the mechanisms it works through?

Most people aren't going to be familiar with it by name, more people would know it as USP Labs original Prime product.

I haven't done the write up portion as this pretty much just finished being an idea phase; and I need to go over their old write ups and methods of action they proposed on it. I never like to take for granted that the way something was proposed to work is the way it does or the only way it does. I do remember when reading it and from feedback thinking that there may be some additional mechanisms of action to it as well. I'll try to get a mini write up done this weekend and give you a better answer.

@thescience may have an explanation on it from his end as he's knowledgeable on it and really seems to like it.

 

[thescience]

Most people aren't going to be familiar with it by name, more people would know it as USP Labs original Prime product.

I haven't done the write up portion as this pretty much just finished being an idea phase; and I need to go over their old write ups and methods of action they proposed on it. I never like to take for granted that the way something was proposed to work is the way it does or the only way it does. I do remember when reading it and from feedback thinking that there may be some additional mechanisms of action to it as well. I'll try to get a mini write up done this weekend and give you a better answer.

@thescience may have an explanation on it from his end as he's knowledgeable on it and really seems to like it.

here's what usplabs said: "The steroidal glycosides contained in USPLabs Prime make the saponins of tribulous terrestris look like the placebo! Tribulus Aquaticus contains active steroidal components called steroidal glycosides. However, the components in USPLabs Prime are unique to our specific extract of Tribulus Aquaticus and have not been found in any other compound in the world. These steroidal glycosides are believed to exert their anabolic effects through non androgen receptor-mediated mechanisms, perhaps by possessing anti-glucocorticoid activity. In any case, it's obvious that these steroidal glycosides allow for a retention of nitrogen and either a decline in the catabolic processes related to skeletal muscle or an improvement in protein synthesis; the end result of which is increased muscle mass "

 

[thescience]

I always thought this one was an effective ad:

• PRIME
  Promotes Thick, Dense Muscle & Supraphysical Strength Development!
  How does USPLabs Prime work? This is an interesting question. Because we found no evidence for androgenic activity, we believe it to have anti-glucocorticoid effects, providing a possible mechanism for the increase muscle mass seen with USPLabs Prime. It may also be something related to improved nutrient absorption or utilization.
  What can I expect to experience when taking USPLabs Prime
• 
  
• Muscle Gains
• Does not cause shut-down or suppression!
• Promotes Muscle Gain of Thick, Dense Variety!
• Extremely Potent Re-composition Effects
• Enormous Strength Gains
• Incredible Recovery Speed
• All-Day Muscle Fullness/Hardness
• Train harder and longer than you ever have
• Incredible Euphoria
• Safe to use in competition
  
  Obviously, everyone loves the effects of androgenic-anabolic substances such as pro-hormones. They allow you to gain muscle and strength, while losing fat. Unfortunately, they also come with a set of drawbacks, including prostate issues, gynecomastia, cardiovascular problems and one that many are likely very familiar with - Testosterone suppression & post cycle therapy (PCT). Every time you stop using such androgenic-anabolic substances, you are invariably required to take a number of other products designed to help your body recover endogenous testosterone production. If you don't, you'll lose the muscle and strength you've gained and gain back the fat. In fact, you'll end up right back where you started or worse.
  What you need is something that is highly anabolic, yet doesn't suppress testosterone production. Sounds easy; yet such compounds are rarer than a 1903 T3 Honus Wagner (for all you baseball card collectors out there). By now, you expect USPlabs to deliver unique products and formulations others simply cannot.
  We have, in fact, found a formula which produces significant anabolic activity in humans without hormonal suppression!
  In our own pilot study, a group of 12 exercising men were found to experience the following, on average, over a 30-day period while using USPLabs Prime:
• Increase in body weight
• Increase in lean body mass
• Decrease in fat mass
• Increase in bench press strength (3 RM)
• Increase in squat strength (3 RM)
  How long until USPLabs Prime starts to work?
  Most have noticed increased workout production and overall body hardening within a few days. However, everyone agrees by the end of week 3 USPLabs Prime is in full force - running through your veins and demonstrating the unique anabolic effects! Here's a timeline based upon user feedback:
  Week 1
  You will begin to experience the power of USPLabs Prime during your workouts. Weight will begin to feel lighter than normal and you'll begin to have great workout after great workout - even on days you don't necessarily enter the gym with the highest amount of intensity or energy. You will find the ability to summons strength almost at will. You also may begin to notice the anabolic effects kicking in where you're whole body will begin to harden.
  Week 2
  You'll continue to have awesome workouts. During these workouts you'll begin to feel an intense full-body muscle fullness and hardness. While it's a pump per say, it's very unique and unlike that from creatine, NO or other products. In addition, the recovery abilities will begin to kick in. USPLabs Prime speeds the muscle recovery process, leading increase training intensity, volume & frequency.
  Week 3
  This is the week our subjects cannot stop talking about. For most, by the end of Week 3 is when USPLabs Prime REALLY begins to impart its force upon your body. You'll fly through your workouts, your body will be hard as a freakin rock - all day long.
  Week 4
  The great thing about USPLabs Prime is it just continues to get better and better the longer you use it. During week 4 is where you'll begin to set personal records frequently. Weights that were heavy in the past are going up like butter - and you feel like THE MAN. By this point you should be getting plenty of compliments from those around you noticing you're bigger and stronger. And don't be surprised that your body is in such an anabolic state that you get a chest pump when you're squatting!
  Week 6 and Beyond
  At this point you should have put on some serious, REAL muscle mass. It will be thick and dense, not simply water weight. Some subjects have even noted their asthetics have changed and they now have a V-taper that they've never had before. They have more muscle (thick and dense) with a more athletic build.
  Do I need to Cycle USPLabs Prime?
  Well, you won't want to come off! And since it does not statistically affect hormonal levels one way or another, you can stay on for long periods. But, just to be safe, we suggest 12 weeks on, 4 weeks off. Or at least two, 3 week breaks per year.
  Does it have any side effects?
  People are training so intense and heavy and gaining muscle & strength at such a rapid pace, that the Central Nervous system cannot keep up. So that is why we recommend using USPLabs Prime on a 5 days on, 2 days off schedule. Certainly, it can be used every day, just take this as fair warning if you end up crushing your CNS because you're training balls-to-the-wall everyday! You will be training as such a heightening level, both mentally and physically, you just have to monitor yourself.
  Can I stack USPLabs Prime with any other supplements?
  The ultimate stack is ALWAYS going to include Anabolic-Pump due to it's ability to increase the effectiveness of every supplement you take & properly utilize your food intake - which is critical to any plan. In addition, adding PowerFULL to the mix forms what we believe to be the greatest stack ever assembled.
  USPLabs Prime contains two extremely potent, novel ingredients:
  SuperAnabolic
  SuperAnabolic is a rare species of herb in the same family as Tribulus Terrestris. However, once you try USPLabs Prime you'll soon realize the comparisons stop there. The steroidal glycosides contained in USPLabs Prime make the saponins of tribulous terrestris look like the placebo! Tribulus Aquaticus contains active steroidal components called steroidal glycosides. However, the components in USPLabs Prime are unique to our specific extract of Tribulus Aquaticus and have not been found in any other compound in the world. These steroidal glycosides are believed to exert their anabolic effects through non androgen receptor-mediated mechanisms, perhaps by possessing anti-glucocorticoid activity. In any case, it's obvious that these steroidal glycosides allow for a retention of nitrogen and either a decline in the catabolic processes related to skeletal muscle or an improvement in protein synthesis; the end result of which is increased muscle mass.
  CellMend
  The Ayurvedic system points to a wonder-fruit called terminalia chebula. Its viewed as one of the most potent CNS and body adaptagenic compounds the world has ever seen. It's proposed that terminalla chebula balances the entire body mentally and physically - placing your body in a perfect state of balance during times of intense stress.

 

[thescience]

at the end of the day, they just threw a bunch of speculation for the method of action against the wall and never settled on anything.

 

[sns8778]

at the end of the day, they just threw a bunch of speculation for the method of action against the wall and never settled on anything.

I've got to give it to them - they were great at marketing.

And like you said, it was funny bc they could do a page or two long add and talk in fancy words and not actually say anything at all about how something actually worked while making it sound spectacular.

I always thought even they truly didn't know how it worked and also that bc it worked so well for a lot of people that it probably works in some ways more than what they theorized. That they were probably right in their theories but that it probably worked in other ways too.

Also, thank you so much for posting that ad - I was looking for that earlier and couldn't find it. I wasn't going to go quite that crazy with it, but had wanted to review theirs for ideas on how to do the write up and I couldn't find that - so thank you very much for posting that. That will help me a lot get a tentative write up started for it.

I've already verified that I can get the exact same raws and pricing, so this is one that could come together quickly.

 

[JN230]

I'm in to try it for sure