Tell Us What You Would Like to See From SNS & CEL (2023 Edition)

[sns8778]

I’m honestly not sure either! I believe it has a high molecular weight, but I’m no expert… you would be the guy to ask! Hahaha
The L-carnitine pip hits so hard sometimes… it would be a blessing if a TD version could offer good bioavailability

I'll definitely look into it. There's more to it sometimes than just molecular weight too.

This is one of those things that I know I should know by heart, but am so exhausted and have a headache at the moment so bad that I can't think straight lol. But I did put it on my list of things to look up later.

 

[sns8778]

i mean, yeah they couldve spiked it. anything goes when youre dealing with sketchy people. ive heard of companies doing that at exhibitions to lure in vendors. i used the stuff from the day it came out with usplabs until precision research stopped selling it. if it had some kind of back alley anabolic, i didnt suffer any withdrawal effects.

you say you feel the two brands were equivalent with the TA. are you saying you tried both and was a responder?

No, I never used either of them. I meant that I knew people that used both and some said that they were comparable products and then some said that there felt like there was a little more to USP's - so I was saying that I felt like Precision's was what it was supposed to be, and that there may or may not have been anything additional in USP's.

I would feel confident in saying that if you wanted us to do a product that was comparable to Precisions then we could absolutely do that. And it would be comparable to USP's IF it was just Tribulus Aquaticus and nothing else in there that wasn't on the label.

I definitely appreciate the suggestion and am interested - just would have to think of a good name.

 

[Ziyo]

A topical/TD L-carnitine gel from XPG would be a staple product for me! Would use it year-round!

I’d love this aswell…
This would be far more convenient than pinning and low bioavailability orals.

 

[thescience]

No, I never used either of them. I meant that I knew people that used both and some said that they were comparable products and then some said that there felt like there was a little more to USP's - so I was saying that I felt like Precision's was what it was supposed to be, and that there may or may not have been anything additional in USP's.

I would feel confident in saying that if you wanted us to do a product that was comparable to Precisions then we could absolutely do that. And it would be comparable to USP's IF it was just Tribulus Aquaticus and nothing else in there that wasn't on the label.

I definitely appreciate the suggestion and am interested - just would have to think of a good name.

No, I never used either of them. I meant that I knew people that used both and some said that they were comparable products and then some said that there felt like there was a little more to USP's - so I was saying that I felt like Precision's was what it was supposed to be, and that there may or may not have been anything additional in USP's.

I would feel confident in saying that if you wanted us to do a product that was comparable to Precisions then we could absolutely do that. And it would be comparable to USP's IF it was just Tribulus Aquaticus and nothing else in there that wasn't on the label.

I definitely appreciate the suggestion and am interested - just would have to think of a good name.

any bodybuilding term following the word Aqua works. AquaMass, AquaStrong. I cant believe nobody has heard of this stuff, but then again nowadays most of the people my age who trained either dropped out or are beet red from a more generous serving of trt getting huge while moving around 20lb dumbbells so maybe it really is a forgotten ingredient

 

[Darkhorse192]

I’d love this aswell…
This would be far more convenient than pinning and low bioavailability orals.

hell yeah

 

[sns8778]

any bodybuilding term following the word Aqua works. AquaMass, AquaStrong. I cant believe nobody has heard of this stuff, but then again nowadays most of the people my age who trained either dropped out or are beet red from a more generous serving of trt getting huge while moving around 20lb dumbbells so maybe it really is a forgotten ingredient

Thanks. I'm not sure if the name should be named after the Aquaticus part or if people would think hydration if they heard that; or if it should be named more after the Prime/Primal type names.

I think in general that not a lot of people knew about the ingredient to begin with to have forgotten about it. A lot of people knew the USP Labs Prime product - but USP did a great job making things be about their product names, not the ingredients used, so I think a lot of people that liked the product couldn't have told you what ingredients were even in it. I think that's one reason why the ingredient itself never became more popular.

 

[Nac]

Cardiovascular Support XT is great for blood flow and venous insufficiency, so it should help with varicose veins and help support keeping new ones from forming.

I had actually thought about doing a product specifically for varicose veins and have the formula finalized for it; I just had been hesitant bc wasn't sure how good it would sell.

I havent yet come across a multi-ingredient product that has all the herbs I personally favour (hesperidin, diosmin, rutin, horse chestnut).

 

[Hyde]

I havent yet come across a multi-ingredient product that has all the herbs I personally favour (hesperidin, diosmin, rutin, horse chestnut).

I believe horse chestnut is one you’re not supposed to stay on longterm.

I think it’s a solid temporary remedy for edema, but I ended up going away from it personally on blasts after more reading for an ARB to actually prevent overstimulation of angiotensin receptors in the first place instead of trying to clean up water retention after.

And pine bark extract is safe daily as a lower leg circulation support ingredient, either solo or in a stacked product like Kidney Support XT.

 

[Nac]

I believe horse chestnut is one you’re not supposed to stay on longterm.

Is that due to the esculin content?

 

[Hyde]

Is that due to the esculin content?

Well, that should be removed from a good quality extract.

Patients with existing kidney disease given intravenously delivered aescin were shown to further kidney damage. And same for patients with existing liver disease.

So it depends on the person’s existing health, but you definitely wouldn’t want someone with edema from compromised kidneys using horse chestnut over something like pine bark longterm.

 

[Dustin07]

All of the post regarding this products are insinuating that it was possibly spiked. I used several bottles and never had any shutdown or anything that would indicate it was spiked so who knows?

Also on the testing yes they would test the material, but they cant test to see if it was spiked or not.. they would literally have to test for every single component in the world lol.

I just want to say Hulk_Smash420 is the greatest name ever

 

[sns8778]

I havent yet come across a multi-ingredient product that has all the herbs I personally favour (hesperidin, diosmin, rutin, horse chestnut).

My tentative formula for a leg vein product does have all of those in it + a few more things. I'd just held off on moving forward on it because I wasn't sure how well it would sell. But its one I would really like to do.

 

[sns8778]

I believe horse chestnut is one you’re not supposed to stay on longterm.

I think it’s a solid temporary remedy for edema, but I ended up going away from it personally on blasts after more reading for an ARB to actually prevent overstimulation of angiotensin receptors in the first place instead of trying to clean up water retention after.

And pine bark extract is safe daily as a lower leg circulation support ingredient, either solo or in a stacked product like Kidney Support XT.

Is that due to the esculin content?

I have a lot of information on that but would need to refresh on it - but basically, if I remember correctly, if processed correctly and the correct extracts were used, it would eliminate or minimize the component that would be problematic for long term use.

Pine Bark is a great ingredient for lower leg circulation; Hawthorn can be too.

 

[sns8778]

I had used Prime back in the days and the results were pretty good. I wouldnt mind trying it again. But if it was spiked with something, how do you know the material that you get doesnt have something spiked in there too?

All raw materials and finished products are tested for quality and correct finished product dosages.

Maybe misunderstanding your implications, but because they would test it when they receive it? Steve has lots of good posts on the processes these go through and where other companies may be skipping steps, but from my understanding you just wouldn't blindly assume the material you receive is what it says it is so you'd test it yourself (and/or other steps).

This is assuming in a non-conspiratorial mindset that the reason the original was potentially tainted is because the raws were and not because of other additions afterwards.

Correct. The proper GMP processes involve testing raw materials and finished products.

When it comes to USP Labs old products, I don't think that there were many, if anyone, that thought that anything that may have been added was done so unintentionally.

All of the post regarding this products are insinuating that it was possibly spiked. I used several bottles and never had any shutdown or anything that would indicate it was spiked so who knows?

Also on the testing yes they would test the material, but they cant test to see if it was spiked or not.. they would literally have to test for every single component in the world lol.

I'm not insinuating anything - I'm straight forward saying that a lot of people over the years have felt like a lot of the original USP Labs products had in them more or different things than what the labels said, and also that many people reported getting dramatically different results from the beginning batches to the later ones.

So when people ask us to do anything that would be comparable to an old USP Labs product, I always state clearly that if the product was what it was supposed to be - meaning that it contains what the labels said, then yes, that is doable. However, I can never guarantee that a product is going to be just like one of their old ones IF they were adding extra things into it.

Yes, a company can very much test to see if things are spiked. It's very simple - that's why raw materials are tested before and after capsulation. If you test raw materials and they are 99% purity, and then you test finished product and it is 750 mg. per capsule by weight and the testing shows its 750 mg. of 99% material, then there's nothing else there. (Of course real calculations would be done with flow materials, but that's just an example as to how its done).

 

[sns8778]

Thanks I was going to say the whole point of testing is to make sure there isn't anything else in there...

Yeah, the point with testing is to make sure that the raw materials are what they are supposed to be and then that the finished product has the correct dosage of the raw materials.

Then there would always be heavy metals and microbial testing done for safety purposes.

You do hear sometimes about athletes failing for 'contaminated' supplements - which oftentimes is an excuse, but sometimes it would be because of there being trace amounts of something in products and in these cases, the trace amounts may not be detectable on basic testing unless they were specifically being tested for, but that goes back to as a company, responsible companies should only be using FDA registered GMP compliant contract manufacturers that would never even be running ingredients like that to begin with on their equipment.

^^^ But that's very different than the scenario being discussed - of where a company may or may not have intentionally added anything else to a product to begin with. I'm not saying they did or didn't - but as always, I specify that yes, we can do a product with those ingredients, but no, I can't promise it would be the exact same as one of theirs IF they had more in there than the label says. It's not a knock at USP Labs - its a well discussed rumor/issue on their products - and from my end, its just me covering my bases on my end and explaining everything from our side up front.

 

[sns8778]

I’m honestly not sure either! I believe it has a high molecular weight, but I’m no expert… you would be the guy to ask! Hahaha
The L-carnitine pip hits so hard sometimes… it would be a blessing if a TD version could offer good bioavailability

I think that an L-Carnitine td/topical is doable - just a matter of figuring out what form of L-Carnitine that people would prefer.

 

[LucasBagoDoce]

I think that an L-Carnitine td/topical is doable - just a matter of figuring out what form of L-Carnitine that people would prefer.

That would be awesome!!!! Any idea of how would the bioavailability compare to oral and injectable?
I honestly think it would be very popular!

 

[sns8778]

That would be awesome!!!! Any idea of how would the bioavailability compare to oral and injectable?
I honestly think it would be very popular!

Honestly I hate it when brands try to directly compare the bioavailability to anything td versus injectable because there are a variety of factors, including carriers - so I try to never do that myself.

If we didn't think we could do one and make it very effective, we wouldn't do it though - and the discussion and thought has bene that we could do one and have it be very effective.

Plus, to get into exacts on that, we would have to decide on the type.

I have never been interested in injectable L-Carnitine so I've never followed it much except for the overview. In looking into the type(s) used for that, I've been surprised to see that there is very little detail as to forms or types provided in places I've looked up today so far. I plan to put more research into that aspect over the weekend but if anyone has any suggestions, please let me know.

 

[BigGame84]

I think that an L-Carnitine td/topical is doable - just a matter of figuring out what form of L-Carnitine that people would prefer.

Maybe this is when PLCAR can make its comeback?

 

[sns8778]

Maybe this is when PLCAR can make its comeback?

I doubt it. If you think about it, if it in a powder form alone can gunk up manufacturing equipment to the point that it would make it hard to run it in capsule form, I would think it would wind up as sludge at a high dose in a topical.

Admittedly, you have my curiosity up and I may get a sample to experiment and see if that would turn out as bad as I think it would haha.

 

[LucasBagoDoce]

I doubt it. If you think about it, if it in a powder form alone can gunk up manufacturing equipment to the point that it would make it hard to run it in capsule form, I would think it would wind up as sludge at a high dose in a topical.

Admittedly, you have my curiosity up and I may get a sample to experiment and see if that would turn out as bad as I think it would haha.

I believe L-Carnitine L-tartrate would most likely be most people’s choice due to its fat transporting role
Not taking anything away from ALCAR, but I believe fat loss would be more important than neurological benefits to make the product successful

 

[sns8778]

I believe L-Carnitine L-tartrate would most likely be most people’s choice due to its fat transporting role
Not taking anything away from ALCAR, but I believe fat loss would be more important than neurological benefits to make the product successful

Thank you for the suggestion.

The PLCAR that he mentioned is similar to ALCAR, but is a manufacturing nightmare. We used to make it in a capsule form, but the powder itself kind of congeals and sticks to the equipment when running. Many cm's won't even run products with it in them. So I would think it would be worse in a topical, but not 100% sure.

I would think that LCLT would be most people's preferred forms. I wouldn't be opposed to an L-Carnitine blend with different types if that's what people wanted IF it would work in the base, which is an unknown right now because in theory it could be that one form would need one type td base and another type may need another. It may not, I just haven't gotten that far into it yet.

 

[LucasBagoDoce]

Is there really a difference in fat loss mechanisms between LCLT and ALCAR?(are there? idk bad English skills not sure if it is is there or are there ).

ALCAR is more effective at crossing the blood-brain barrier due to the presence of an acetyl group attached to it. I believe the tartrate group only stabilizes the amino acid and makes it more readily available. It is somewhat confusing, actually… it is always said LCLT is more effective for fatty acid mobilization, but studies have shown both forms increase blood concentrations similarly.
Logic would say that ALCAR offers an extra benefit, then - but the studies that show fatty acid mobilization and androgen receptor regulation benefits used LCLT.

 

[LucasBagoDoce]

Ya it is a bit confusing. It’s been a bit since I looked at specifics but I felt like sometimes companies were just listing general benefits of carnitine and attributing it to LCLT.

I feel like the fat dumping and choline + caffeine studies were with ALCAR but could be misremembering.

I’m just a fan of Carnitine in general, all forms are cool to me.

As long as it is not oral, I’m fine with any form too. Risk of increasing TMAO levels over the roof and destroying 90% of what I’m paying for in my gut are not cool haha

 

[Hyde]

Is there really a difference in fat loss mechanisms between LCLT and ALCAR?(are there? idk bad English skills not sure if it is is there or are there ).

Is would indeed be correct use here, since you’re concerned with “a difference”, which is singular (mechanisms is plural, but we’re actually focusing on “difference”).

Are would be correct if you asked about “differences”.

 

[sns8778]

The subject about different types of carnitine is confusing in general - and I think a lot of the confusion has been on purpose from years worth of brands trying to sway people one way or the other - most of the time based on raw material pricing at the time.

I do definitely prefer ALCAR for nootropic benefits; but for what we are talking about here, I need to research it some more to find out if I have a preference.

I'm definitely appreciative of any discussion and input as to types people would like to see.

 

[Ziyo]

my vote goes to LCLT aswell.
Fat loss, androgen receptors etc…

I believe that ALCAR for what it gives(nootropic benefits) the dosage is minimal and reasonable for powder/capsule forms. But in regards to benefits such as fat loss, androgen receptor etc the dosage should be up to 6g of l carnitine l tartrate which is very inconvenient especially considering the TMAO.

 

[Hyde]

my vote goes to LCLT aswell.
Fat loss, androgen receptors etc…

I believe that ALCAR for what it gives(nootropic benefits) the dosage is minimal and reasonable for powder/capsule forms. But in regards to benefits such as fat loss, androgen receptor etc the dosage should be up to 6g of l carnitine l tartrate which is very inconvenient especially considering the TMAO.

And it’s very important to note that the 6g must be consumed over multiple oral administrations. When subjects were given that dose as a single daily bolus, levels returned to baseline and did not remain elevated.

 

[ActionFigure3]

The subject about different types of carnitine is confusing in general - and I think a lot of the confusion has been on purpose from years worth of brands trying to sway people one way or the other - most of the time based on raw material pricing at the time.

I do definitely prefer ALCAR for nootropic benefits; but for what we are talking about here, I need to research it some more to find out if I have a preference.

I'm definitely appreciative of any discussion and input as to types people would like to see.

Just a friendly reminder to check your DM

 

[Hyde]

Idk where we are getting that it is necessary for such high doses of Carnitine.

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I don't want this to come off confrontational, but people have been using 1-2g Carnitine for a long time now, it is well studied, and while it doesn't blow anyone away there are meaningful benefits. Maybe more to higher dosing and I'd love to try intramuscular or even transdermal if XPG dropped on one day, but that won't change the fact that 2g does provide benefit for many.

Edit: I somehow butchered some of those links. 1 minute..
Edit 2: Ok think I fixed it.

I’m specifically referring to the study where intravenous L-carnitine supplementation in dialysis patients once a day was able to raise baseline carnitine levels, but oral supplementation was found to provide only a transient increase. We don’t have intramuscular studies, but we can assume the benefit lies somewhere in between, and probably more towards the intravenous benefits based purely on real world anecdote.

So yes small doses provide transient effects, but that is missing the biggest benefits. Same as having a flash of androgens like a tab of 4andro is totally inferior to a very modest true TRT injection of testosterone, because the ester allows the baseline of test to stay elevated over time providing continued benefit. To get anywhere, you needed to take those 4andro tabs several times per day.

So no you don’t need 6g of carnitine to get effects. But you need 1-2g many times orally, and that’s going to pale in comparison to 200mg IM once daily. And let me tell you, even that will help but it will absolutely not change the game.

I hope that makes more sense.

 

[Dustin07]

When I was basically living off chicken and rice and salad at sub 2000 calories with my only supplementation being creatine, maca, goat weed, etc I felt like carnitine did something but these days even those 5000mg doses of oral carnitine don't do anything for me except make my stomach rumble.

 

[josun]

As long as it is not oral, I’m fine with any form too. Risk of increasing TMAO levels over the roof and destroying 90% of what I’m paying for in my gut are not cool haha

Alcar raises TMAO?

 

[schizm]

I've lost track and not kept up, has a probiotic been mentioned?

 

[Hyde]

When I was basically living off chicken and rice and salad at sub 2000 calories with my only supplementation being creatine, maca, goat weed, etc I felt like carnitine did something but these days even those 5000mg doses of oral carnitine don't do anything for me except make my stomach rumble.

And like Resolve mentioned, that big of a dose at once was not what was found to really be any more beneficial. The returns become so diminishing.

The other thing to consider is, what effects are you trying to achieve? Things like muscular endurance and pumps, those are acutely derived pre-training. But the way carnitine knocks androgens off the receptors, allowing them to get back to work finding a new AR to bind to sooner & transcribe again (making your natural test or exogenous steroids both go further), that is something you are going to desire sustained elevated levels for.

And with IM carnitine at least, the dosages are pretty different. You can get the AR scrubbing effect at something under 100mg daily, while preWO would be several hundred mg, and enhanced fatty acid transportation for better opportunities to burn stored fat can benefit from 5-600mg at once even in some individuals working hard enough in a serious deficit.

I hope this is helpful and not derailing things. The point is, carnitine can do a lot, but dosage, timing, and delivery will all matter for different effects, and nothing is going to be jaw-dropping. But it can help, and if you avoid oral it’s actually generally good for your health. It does seem to affect thyroid stimulating hormone levels some, but I haven’t exactly figured out how/why or how much that matters.

 

[LucasBagoDoce]

Alcar raises TMAO?

Some studies have shown that taking too much carnitine orally for long periods may increase TMAO
As trimethylamine is only oxidized in the colon - ‘creating’ tmao - applying td or injecting already solves the problem - if those studies are conclusive, which I’m not sure

 

[Darkhorse192]

just going to pop in here and say this

Id love a high-quality "trusted" fish oil or krill oil supplement. There are so many reports flying around that these companies about rancid oil, and some of the most expensive "top tier brands" a la Nordic Naturals, or Carlson have been some of the worst offenders.

not sure if sourcing fish oil and producing a product yields enough profit to make it worth it, but Id love it. Every time a heart health and cholesterol topic comes I always say research has backed that 2-3G of Krill oil + 1G Citrus Bergamot daily will have a profound impact, but who can you trust to provide a quality Krill oil supp?

I currently use Onnit Krill Oil and Jarrow Citrus Bergamot

 

[Hyde]

I also don't want to keep clogging Steve's thread, so sorry for the verbal word vomiting of my last few posts.

I don’t think it’s clogging - if anything I believe the discussion highlights the idea that, presuming people have realistic expectations, if carnitine could be delivered effectively transdermally (and therefore a slower release) it would be superior to oral - and there will be a market.

 

[sns8778]

Just a friendly reminder to check your DM

I normally check pm's daily from Monday thru Friday. I normally don't get on AM over the weekends.

If anyone pm's me over the weekend, I'm not ignoring them. I just normally don't check pm's or emails over the weekend because I use that time to try to get work caught up on things like new product formulation, label text, write ups, etc.

 

[sns8778]

Alcar raises TMAO?

No, it doesn't.

The conversation that they are having is related to mega dosing L-Carnitine, and isn't applicable to ALCAR or its dosing. For example, one would never want to dose ALCAR at the dosage level in the studies they are discussing anyway.

 

[sns8778]

I've lost track and not kept up, has a probiotic been mentioned?

We are working on several different digestive health products - an overall gut health formula, a very unique biotic supplement, a high dosed single ingredient tributyrin supplement, and one that is very unique and I can't quite discuss yet.

The overall digestive health supplement will be in my opinion that most comprehensive and advanced digestive health product ever offered. I know a lot of companies make that sales pitch on supplements - I'm not saying it as a sales pitch, I'm saying it in that literally every single ingredient in the formula has numerous clinical studies backing it up and it will target digestive health from a variety of angles.

 

[sns8778]

just going to pop in here and say this

Id love a high-quality "trusted" fish oil or krill oil supplement. There are so many reports flying around that these companies about rancid oil, and some of the most expensive "top tier brands" a la Nordic Naturals, or Carlson have been some of the worst offenders.

not sure if sourcing fish oil and producing a product yields enough profit to make it worth it, but Id love it. Every time a heart health and cholesterol topic comes I always say research has backed that 2-3G of Krill oil + 1G Citrus Bergamot daily will have a profound impact, but who can you trust to provide a quality Krill oil supp?

I currently use Onnit Krill Oil and Jarrow Citrus Bergamot

The upcoming Cholesterol Support XT will have Citrus Bergamot in it

On the subject of fish oil, as far as the top tier brands being some of the worst offenders, I think its important to put it in context though - the issue happens across the board, the big brands are just the ones that are most commonly tested and are also the ones that are most likely to make the news/industry news when there is an issue with theirs.

A lot of the issue with rancid fish oil in general is beyond the brands control - the brand can do everything right in terms of sourcing, finished product testing, etc. But then factors out of their control can happen like it getting too hot in distributors warehouses, retailer warehouses, or in transit happen and then the finished product winds up being rancid.

That's why you see that issue happening even with brands that are known for good quality.

At one time, I thought about doing one, but there is no profit in regular fish oil bc the market is so saturated. I had thought about doing a mega dosed EPA/DHA, but not enough people even know the difference, they just look at the better more expensive ones as being too expensive because they're trying to get in __ grams of Fish Oil per day rather than realizing its the amount of EPA/DHA that matters.

I would actually honestly be more likely to do an Algal Oil because even though there are quite a few of them, the ones by brands I trust are kind of pricey for someone trying to mega dose them. Have you looked at any of those? They are typically the reverse ration - where fish oil is higher EPA to DHA, Algal Oil is usually reversed.

 

[sns8778]

I also don't want to keep clogging Steve's thread, so sorry for the verbal word vomiting of my last few posts.

Not clogging at all - I'm reading and enjoying the conversation.

I think you've made great points about how important context is - in that the side effects that some worry about with L-Carnitine is really at a dosage level that isn't applicable to normal dosing anyways; and also that some people diminish L-Carnitine and talk about how it doesn't work - when there should be context for that based on expectations and that it actually works very well at reasonable dosages for the average person with reasonable expectations.

I don’t think it’s clogging - if anything I believe the discussion highlights the idea that, presuming people have realistic expectations, if carnitine could be delivered effectively transdermally (and therefore a slower release) it would be superior to oral - and there will be a market.

I agree. I think its a good and informative conversation and it helps provide context to the L-Carnitine confusion in general.

I think that 99% of the customer base anyway wants an oral form and less than 1% is willing to use injectables. However, there may be a lot of people that like the concept of the benefit from injectables that may use a topical but that wouldn't be willing to inject.

I always think in context of how outside of the bodybuilding world, there are so many people that could put a bottle of an XPG topical on their bathroom counter to use as a topical/td and their wives wouldn't question it, whereas if she found a vial and a needle, they may need to either be contacting an attorney or getting comfy on the living room couch haha.

 

[Nac]

We are working on several different digestive health products - an overall gut health formula, a very unique biotic supplement, a high dosed single ingredient tributyrin supplement, and one that is very unique and I can't quite discuss yet.

The overall digestive health supplement will be in my opinion that most comprehensive and advanced digestive health product ever offered. I know a lot of companies make that sales pitch on supplements - I'm not saying it as a sales pitch, I'm saying it in that literally every single ingredient in the formula has numerous clinical studies backing it up and it will target digestive health from a variety of angles.

Have you read much on Akkermansia? Seems to have a bit of hype about it, Ive only recently come across it so not sure if all the fuss is warranted.

 

[sns8778]

Have you read much on Akkermansia? Seems to have a bit of hype about it, Ive only recently come across it so not sure if all the fuss is warranted.

I think that it has potential to be a decent ingredient but I think that its so overhyped right now that its ridiculous. I hate it when that happens because it makes good ingredients seem bad bc there is no way that they can ever realistically live up to the hype.

For example, it is something that I would consider using in a product, but it probably wouldn't be one of the foundation ingredients for it.

 

[Brianmc83]

Any update on focus xt? really been missing this my all time favorite

 

[Ziyo]

Is Immune Support XT discontinued?

 

[ELROCK]

Is Immune Support XT discontinued?

Hope not!

 

[sns8778]

Is Immune Support XT discontinued?

No, it isn't. We are just out of stock at the moment. I hope to have it back in within the next 6 weeks and there will be some slight changes to it - not losing any ingredients, adding something and increasing the dosages of a couple things.

Just wanted to add something to it to help it be even better for seasonal allergy support.

 

[GQdaLEGEND]

Is Immune Support XT discontinued?

For time being if need to stash up .. i got a yearly supply for my parents a while back .. wonder how their stash is doing .. i should go jack theirs lol

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[ironkill]

Not clogging at all - I'm reading and enjoying the conversation.

I think you've made great points about how important context is - in that the side effects that some worry about with L-Carnitine is really at a dosage level that isn't applicable to normal dosing anyways; and also that some people diminish L-Carnitine and talk about how it doesn't work - when there should be context for that based on expectations and that it actually works very well at reasonable dosages for the average person with reasonable expectations.



I agree. I think its a good and informative conversation and it helps provide context to the L-Carnitine confusion in general.

I think that 99% of the customer base anyway wants an oral form and less than 1% is willing to use injectables. However, there may be a lot of people that like the concept of the benefit from injectables that may use a topical but that wouldn't be willing to inject.

I always think in context of how outside of the bodybuilding world, there are so many people that could put a bottle of an XPG topical on their bathroom counter to use as a topical/td and their wives wouldn't question it, whereas if she found a vial and a needle, they may need to either be contacting an attorney or getting comfy on the living room couch haha.

Barbell shrugged podcast did a decent convo about the various benefits of carnitine this week