Tell Us What You Would Like to See From SNS & CEL (2023 Edition)

[ActionFigure3]

The subject about different types of carnitine is confusing in general - and I think a lot of the confusion has been on purpose from years worth of brands trying to sway people one way or the other - most of the time based on raw material pricing at the time.

I do definitely prefer ALCAR for nootropic benefits; but for what we are talking about here, I need to research it some more to find out if I have a preference.

I'm definitely appreciative of any discussion and input as to types people would like to see.

Just a friendly reminder to check your DM

 

[Resolve10]

Idk where we are getting that it is necessary for such high doses of Carnitine.

2g for Muscle Recovery, 2g LCLT for Hormonal Changes/Recovery, 2g LCLT on Decreased Muscle Soreness, 2g LCLT Attenuates Hypoxic Stress, and 2g Carnitine Upregulates AR Content.

I don't want this to come off confrontational, but people have been using 1-2g Carnitine for a long time now, it is well studied, and while it doesn't blow anyone away there are meaningful benefits. Maybe more to higher dosing and I'd love to try intramuscular or even transdermal if XPG dropped on one day, but that won't change the fact that 2g does provide benefit for many.

Edit: I somehow butchered some of those links. 1 minute..
Edit 2: Ok think I fixed it.

 

[Hyde]

Idk where we are getting that it is necessary for such high doses of Carnitine.

2g for Muscle Recovery, 2g LCLT for Hormonal Changes/Recovery, 2g LCLT on Decreased Muscle Soreness, 2g LCLT Attenuates Hypoxic Stress, and 2g Carnitine Upregulates AR Content.

I don't want this to come off confrontational, but people have been using 1-2g Carnitine for a long time now, it is well studied, and while it doesn't blow anyone away there are meaningful benefits. Maybe more to higher dosing and I'd love to try intramuscular or even transdermal if XPG dropped on one day, but that won't change the fact that 2g does provide benefit for many.

Edit: I somehow butchered some of those links. 1 minute..
Edit 2: Ok think I fixed it.

I’m specifically referring to the study where intravenous L-carnitine supplementation in dialysis patients once a day was able to raise baseline carnitine levels, but oral supplementation was found to provide only a transient increase. We don’t have intramuscular studies, but we can assume the benefit lies somewhere in between, and probably more towards the intravenous benefits based purely on real world anecdote.

So yes small doses provide transient effects, but that is missing the biggest benefits. Same as having a flash of androgens like a tab of 4andro is totally inferior to a very modest true TRT injection of testosterone, because the ester allows the baseline of test to stay elevated over time providing continued benefit. To get anywhere, you needed to take those 4andro tabs several times per day.

So no you don’t need 6g of carnitine to get effects. But you need 1-2g many times orally, and that’s going to pale in comparison to 200mg IM once daily. And let me tell you, even that will help but it will absolutely not change the game.

I hope that makes more sense.

 

[Dustin07]

When I was basically living off chicken and rice and salad at sub 2000 calories with my only supplementation being creatine, maca, goat weed, etc I felt like carnitine did something but these days even those 5000mg doses of oral carnitine don't do anything for me except make my stomach rumble.

 

[josun]

As long as it is not oral, I’m fine with any form too. Risk of increasing TMAO levels over the roof and destroying 90% of what I’m paying for in my gut are not cool haha

Alcar raises TMAO?

 

[schizm]

I've lost track and not kept up, has a probiotic been mentioned?

 

[Hyde]

When I was basically living off chicken and rice and salad at sub 2000 calories with my only supplementation being creatine, maca, goat weed, etc I felt like carnitine did something but these days even those 5000mg doses of oral carnitine don't do anything for me except make my stomach rumble.

And like Resolve mentioned, that big of a dose at once was not what was found to really be any more beneficial. The returns become so diminishing.

The other thing to consider is, what effects are you trying to achieve? Things like muscular endurance and pumps, those are acutely derived pre-training. But the way carnitine knocks androgens off the receptors, allowing them to get back to work finding a new AR to bind to sooner & transcribe again (making your natural test or exogenous steroids both go further), that is something you are going to desire sustained elevated levels for.

And with IM carnitine at least, the dosages are pretty different. You can get the AR scrubbing effect at something under 100mg daily, while preWO would be several hundred mg, and enhanced fatty acid transportation for better opportunities to burn stored fat can benefit from 5-600mg at once even in some individuals working hard enough in a serious deficit.

I hope this is helpful and not derailing things. The point is, carnitine can do a lot, but dosage, timing, and delivery will all matter for different effects, and nothing is going to be jaw-dropping. But it can help, and if you avoid oral it’s actually generally good for your health. It does seem to affect thyroid stimulating hormone levels some, but I haven’t exactly figured out how/why or how much that matters.

 

[LucasBagoDoce]

Alcar raises TMAO?

Some studies have shown that taking too much carnitine orally for long periods may increase TMAO
As trimethylamine is only oxidized in the colon - ‘creating’ tmao - applying td or injecting already solves the problem - if those studies are conclusive, which I’m not sure

 

[Resolve10]

And like Resolve mentioned, that big of a dose at once was not what was found to really be any more beneficial. The returns become so diminishing.

The other thing to consider is, what effects are you trying to achieve? Things like muscular endurance and pumps, those are acutely derived pre-training. But the way carnitine knocks androgens off the receptors, allowing them to get back to work finding a new AR to bind to sooner & transcribe again (making your natural test or exogenous steroids both go further), that is something you are going to desire sustained elevated levels for.

And with IM carnitine at least, the dosages are pretty different. You can get the AR scrubbing effect at something under 100mg daily, while preWO would be several hundred mg, and enhanced fatty acid transportation for better opportunities to burn stored fat can benefit from 5-600mg at once even in some individuals working hard enough in a serious deficit.

I hope this is helpful and not derailing things. The point is, carnitine can do a lot, but dosage, timing, and delivery will all matter for different effects, and nothing is going to be jaw-dropping. But it can help, and if you avoid oral it’s actually generally good for your health. It does seem to affect thyroid stimulating hormone levels some, but I haven’t exactly figured out how/why or how much that matters.

I guess that is just the thing, if we are going to have people on here tell others Carnitine needs to be dosed higher they need to specify for what purpose, because again I can keep linking studies showing lots of benefits that don't require high dosages or needing to spread the dosage out all over the day. 2g LCLT pre-workout or 2-3g ALCAR all at once or split provide tons of benefits daily, we have real world studies showing benefits against excessive oxidative stress, improving markers of hypertension and insulin resistance, and I could keep going with the performance benefit studies, all of these are in humans, orally, and with around 2g dosages. Pairing with Choline (like many would do with ALCAR or in something like Focus XT) is going to just increase the benefits via Choline decreasing excretion of Carnitine as well.

If someone is looking for AR benefits or fat burning, sure they should just look somewhere else or in a different way, but that doesn't mean we should just ignore lower dosages benefits.

This isn't directed at anyone particular in this thread, I just think it is important to keep in mind because its just a trend I feel I see with members in general on here who lose sight that their goals aren't the same as everyone else's goals and that I've seen people quite often state Carnitine is useless if it is dosed too low or not injected, which is absolutely untrue (again as an absolute, we need to quantify positions if trying to speak that boldly).

Some studies have shown that taking too much carnitine orally for long periods may increase TMAO
As trimethylamine is only oxidized in the colon, applying td or injecting already solves the problem - if those studies are conclusive, which I’m not sure

Alcar raises TMAO?

I think it is important to take these things in context and be careful with assigning causation over mere correlation. It isn't even definite if TMAO is causing cardiovascular disease or just correlating with it. If you end up hyper focusing on these end points you may miss the big picture or maybe you should also cut your meat consumption (which is also where we get a lot of our Carnitine and Choline from our diet).

I don't want to downplay potential health concerns, but just think we need to keep in mind all the other data on things showing positive effects before worrying to throw it all away so quickly. Especially considering the other things people tend to ignore on here I guess.

 

[Resolve10]

I also don't want to keep clogging Steve's thread, so sorry for the verbal word vomiting of my last few posts.

 

[Darkhorse192]

just going to pop in here and say this

Id love a high-quality "trusted" fish oil or krill oil supplement. There are so many reports flying around that these companies about rancid oil, and some of the most expensive "top tier brands" a la Nordic Naturals, or Carlson have been some of the worst offenders.

not sure if sourcing fish oil and producing a product yields enough profit to make it worth it, but Id love it. Every time a heart health and cholesterol topic comes I always say research has backed that 2-3G of Krill oil + 1G Citrus Bergamot daily will have a profound impact, but who can you trust to provide a quality Krill oil supp?

I currently use Onnit Krill Oil and Jarrow Citrus Bergamot

 

[Hyde]

I also don't want to keep clogging Steve's thread, so sorry for the verbal word vomiting of my last few posts.

I don’t think it’s clogging - if anything I believe the discussion highlights the idea that, presuming people have realistic expectations, if carnitine could be delivered effectively transdermally (and therefore a slower release) it would be superior to oral - and there will be a market.

 

[sns8778]

Just a friendly reminder to check your DM

I normally check pm's daily from Monday thru Friday. I normally don't get on AM over the weekends.

If anyone pm's me over the weekend, I'm not ignoring them. I just normally don't check pm's or emails over the weekend because I use that time to try to get work caught up on things like new product formulation, label text, write ups, etc.

 

[sns8778]

Alcar raises TMAO?

No, it doesn't.

The conversation that they are having is related to mega dosing L-Carnitine, and isn't applicable to ALCAR or its dosing. For example, one would never want to dose ALCAR at the dosage level in the studies they are discussing anyway.

 

[sns8778]

I've lost track and not kept up, has a probiotic been mentioned?

We are working on several different digestive health products - an overall gut health formula, a very unique biotic supplement, a high dosed single ingredient tributyrin supplement, and one that is very unique and I can't quite discuss yet.

The overall digestive health supplement will be in my opinion that most comprehensive and advanced digestive health product ever offered. I know a lot of companies make that sales pitch on supplements - I'm not saying it as a sales pitch, I'm saying it in that literally every single ingredient in the formula has numerous clinical studies backing it up and it will target digestive health from a variety of angles.

 

[sns8778]

just going to pop in here and say this

Id love a high-quality "trusted" fish oil or krill oil supplement. There are so many reports flying around that these companies about rancid oil, and some of the most expensive "top tier brands" a la Nordic Naturals, or Carlson have been some of the worst offenders.

not sure if sourcing fish oil and producing a product yields enough profit to make it worth it, but Id love it. Every time a heart health and cholesterol topic comes I always say research has backed that 2-3G of Krill oil + 1G Citrus Bergamot daily will have a profound impact, but who can you trust to provide a quality Krill oil supp?

I currently use Onnit Krill Oil and Jarrow Citrus Bergamot

The upcoming Cholesterol Support XT will have Citrus Bergamot in it

On the subject of fish oil, as far as the top tier brands being some of the worst offenders, I think its important to put it in context though - the issue happens across the board, the big brands are just the ones that are most commonly tested and are also the ones that are most likely to make the news/industry news when there is an issue with theirs.

A lot of the issue with rancid fish oil in general is beyond the brands control - the brand can do everything right in terms of sourcing, finished product testing, etc. But then factors out of their control can happen like it getting too hot in distributors warehouses, retailer warehouses, or in transit happen and then the finished product winds up being rancid.

That's why you see that issue happening even with brands that are known for good quality.

At one time, I thought about doing one, but there is no profit in regular fish oil bc the market is so saturated. I had thought about doing a mega dosed EPA/DHA, but not enough people even know the difference, they just look at the better more expensive ones as being too expensive because they're trying to get in __ grams of Fish Oil per day rather than realizing its the amount of EPA/DHA that matters.

I would actually honestly be more likely to do an Algal Oil because even though there are quite a few of them, the ones by brands I trust are kind of pricey for someone trying to mega dose them. Have you looked at any of those? They are typically the reverse ration - where fish oil is higher EPA to DHA, Algal Oil is usually reversed.

 

[sns8778]

I also don't want to keep clogging Steve's thread, so sorry for the verbal word vomiting of my last few posts.

Not clogging at all - I'm reading and enjoying the conversation.

I think you've made great points about how important context is - in that the side effects that some worry about with L-Carnitine is really at a dosage level that isn't applicable to normal dosing anyways; and also that some people diminish L-Carnitine and talk about how it doesn't work - when there should be context for that based on expectations and that it actually works very well at reasonable dosages for the average person with reasonable expectations.

I don’t think it’s clogging - if anything I believe the discussion highlights the idea that, presuming people have realistic expectations, if carnitine could be delivered effectively transdermally (and therefore a slower release) it would be superior to oral - and there will be a market.

I agree. I think its a good and informative conversation and it helps provide context to the L-Carnitine confusion in general.

I think that 99% of the customer base anyway wants an oral form and less than 1% is willing to use injectables. However, there may be a lot of people that like the concept of the benefit from injectables that may use a topical but that wouldn't be willing to inject.

I always think in context of how outside of the bodybuilding world, there are so many people that could put a bottle of an XPG topical on their bathroom counter to use as a topical/td and their wives wouldn't question it, whereas if she found a vial and a needle, they may need to either be contacting an attorney or getting comfy on the living room couch haha.

 

[Nac]

We are working on several different digestive health products - an overall gut health formula, a very unique biotic supplement, a high dosed single ingredient tributyrin supplement, and one that is very unique and I can't quite discuss yet.

The overall digestive health supplement will be in my opinion that most comprehensive and advanced digestive health product ever offered. I know a lot of companies make that sales pitch on supplements - I'm not saying it as a sales pitch, I'm saying it in that literally every single ingredient in the formula has numerous clinical studies backing it up and it will target digestive health from a variety of angles.

Have you read much on Akkermansia? Seems to have a bit of hype about it, Ive only recently come across it so not sure if all the fuss is warranted.

 

[sns8778]

Have you read much on Akkermansia? Seems to have a bit of hype about it, Ive only recently come across it so not sure if all the fuss is warranted.

I think that it has potential to be a decent ingredient but I think that its so overhyped right now that its ridiculous. I hate it when that happens because it makes good ingredients seem bad bc there is no way that they can ever realistically live up to the hype.

For example, it is something that I would consider using in a product, but it probably wouldn't be one of the foundation ingredients for it.

 

[Brianmc83]

Any update on focus xt? really been missing this my all time favorite

 

[Ziyo]

Is Immune Support XT discontinued?

 

[ELROCK]

Is Immune Support XT discontinued?

Hope not!

 

[sns8778]

Is Immune Support XT discontinued?

No, it isn't. We are just out of stock at the moment. I hope to have it back in within the next 6 weeks and there will be some slight changes to it - not losing any ingredients, adding something and increasing the dosages of a couple things.

Just wanted to add something to it to help it be even better for seasonal allergy support.

 

[GQdaLEGEND]

Is Immune Support XT discontinued?

For time being if need to stash up .. i got a yearly supply for my parents a while back .. wonder how their stash is doing .. i should go jack theirs lol

Serious Nutrition Solutions Immune Support XT 120 Veg Caps

SNS Immune Support is a powerful combination of seven proven immune support ingredients. Immune Support helps strengthen your immune system with premium ingredients like elderberry extract, vitamin c, zinc, and more! Try SNS Immune Support!

supplementwarehouse.com

Serious Nutrition Solutions Immune Support XT 120 Caps

It's always important to keep your immune system in tip top shape, but it's even more important during cold and flu season. With the Coronavirus aka Covid-19 going around many people are fearful about their health. Feel better knowing your keeping your immune system in tip top shape to respond...

www.bestpricenutrition.com

 

[ironkill]

Not clogging at all - I'm reading and enjoying the conversation.

I think you've made great points about how important context is - in that the side effects that some worry about with L-Carnitine is really at a dosage level that isn't applicable to normal dosing anyways; and also that some people diminish L-Carnitine and talk about how it doesn't work - when there should be context for that based on expectations and that it actually works very well at reasonable dosages for the average person with reasonable expectations.



I agree. I think its a good and informative conversation and it helps provide context to the L-Carnitine confusion in general.

I think that 99% of the customer base anyway wants an oral form and less than 1% is willing to use injectables. However, there may be a lot of people that like the concept of the benefit from injectables that may use a topical but that wouldn't be willing to inject.

I always think in context of how outside of the bodybuilding world, there are so many people that could put a bottle of an XPG topical on their bathroom counter to use as a topical/td and their wives wouldn't question it, whereas if she found a vial and a needle, they may need to either be contacting an attorney or getting comfy on the living room couch haha.

Barbell shrugged podcast did a decent convo about the various benefits of carnitine this week

 

[sns8778]

Any update on focus xt? really been missing this my all time favorite

Some of the flavors are in process now. I miss it too and want it back more than anyone haha.

I'm really hoping that we will have some flavors back in in around a month or so; but with the way lead times are on flavored powders in this industry right now, its hard to say for sure.

 

[jh1]

Looking forward to stocking back up on Immune Support XT and Focus XT. On a related note, I would love to see a "Focus XT Performance" variant released down the road. Basically the the exact current Focus XT formula, but with a few add ons.... Agmatine, citrulline malate, vaso 6, maybe some Peak O2 and creatinol-O-phosphate? Basically what I already add in with Focus XT, but combined into a single formula. I know you already have a ton of stuff in the works, so you probably already have something like this covered....but figured I'd put my request in anyway

 

[sns8778]

Looking forward to stocking back up on Immune Support XT and Focus XT. On a related note, I would love to see a "Focus XT Performance" variant released down the road. Basically the the exact current Focus XT formula, but with a few add ons.... Agmatine, citrulline malate, vaso 6, maybe some Peak O2 and creatinol-O-phosphate? Basically what I already add in with Focus XT, but combined into a single formula. I know you already have a ton of stuff in the works, so you probably already have something like this covered....but figured I'd put my request in anyway

Thank you.

I'm always glad to hear ideas and suggestions.

Once we get Focus XT back in stock, I had been considering doing a higher stim version of it and also a version of it that would be more like a nootropic pre-workout. It wouldn't be exactly what you had listed, but most of it plus more.

 

[Hyde]

Thank you.

I'm always glad to hear ideas and suggestions.

Once we get Focus XT back in stock, I had been considering doing a higher stim version of it and also a version of it that would be more like a nootropic pre-workout. It wouldn't be exactly what you had listed, but most of it plus more.

That would be so cool to see!

 

[Slims]

How about a localised topical arachidonic acid gel? All of the benefits of ARA, but a targetted/muscle group specific dosage instead of general all over.
I know this is more XPG than SNS/CEL, but I know SNS Steve formulates for XPG.

 

[sns8778]

How about a localised topical arachidonic acid gel? All of the benefits of ARA, but a targetted/muscle group specific dosage instead of general all over.
I know this is more XPG than SNS/CEL, but I know SNS Steve formulates for XPG.

Thank you for the suggestion. Muscle and XPG discussion is fine and welcome here in this thread.

I've never had anyone ask about that before - I would have to research it a little myself to see if it would be a good candidate for more of a localized benefit.

 

[schizm]

Thank you for the suggestion. Muscle and XPG discussion is fine and welcome here in this thread.

I've never had anyone ask about that before - I would have to research it a little myself to see if it would be a good candidate for more of a localized benefit.

ARA is included in EvoMuse's topical Top Muscle, fwiw. Great product, a standalone ARA topical would be worth trying out, for me at least.

 

[BigGame84]

How about a localised topical arachidonic acid gel? All of the benefits of ARA, but a targetted/muscle group specific dosage instead of general all over.
I know this is more XPG than SNS/CEL, but I know SNS Steve formulates for XPG.

This is intriguing but you have to be careful where you would be applying topical ARA because it could wreck joints.

 

[sns8778]

ARA is included in EvoMuse's topical Top Muscle, fwiw. Great product, a standalone ARA topical would be worth trying out, for me at least.

I honestly haven't looked at anything by Evomuse in a long time so I'm not sure what is in some of their things or which ones they still have available.

I'm open to most any ideas so its something I'll be glad to look into.

 

[DieselNY]

This is intriguing but you have to be careful where you would be applying topical ARA because it could wreck joints.

ARA is included in EvoMuse's topical Top Muscle, fwiw. Great product, a standalone ARA topical would be worth trying out, for me at least.

I remember this from a couple years back and you definitely have to be careful where you apply it if I'm not mistaken I remember it was hurting if I was too close to my elbows Etc. So unsure how practical a topical Ara is. But Steve knows more than me.

If Ara has zero bioavailability issues orally then I say why fix what's not broken.

Then again there are people (admittedly like me) who love anything topical because it feels, at least in my head like it's doing more almost like an injection sort of a topi-placebo...

 

[Slims]

This is intriguing but you have to be careful where you would be applying topical ARA because it could wreck joints.

This was alongside my line of thinking with the idea. In theory having ARA as a localised topical could prevent the potential joint issues associated with ARA. Instead of increased inflammation over the entire body, which you get from ingested and gastrically absorbed ARA, it would be localised/targetted at the specific muscle group(s).

 

[Slims]

X-Gels(ARA) is one of the best natty products for strength and size gains. Having it as a concentrated and localised topical could make it even better, increase it's efficiancy, minimize the side effects and open it up to a wider audience... For example, people with joint related auto-immune disorders.

 

[Ziyo]

No, it isn't. We are just out of stock at the moment. I hope to have it back in within the next 6 weeks and there will be some slight changes to it - not losing any ingredients, adding something and increasing the dosages of a couple things.

Just wanted to add something to it to help it be even better for seasonal allergy support.

Damn I like the sound of that
I really liked the old one and I’m gonna enjoy this one even more because I get allergies really bad like non stop sneezing..

 

[sns8778]

Damn I like the sound of that
I really liked the old one and I’m gonna enjoy this one even more because I get allergies really bad like non stop sneezing..

I have terrible allergies myself and that's what got me to thinking about adjusting the formula to make it more comprehensive for allergies as well.

 

[sns8778]

This was alongside my line of thinking with the idea. In theory having ARA as a localised topical could prevent the potential joint issues associated with ARA. Instead of increased inflammation over the entire body, which you get from ingested and gastrically absorbed ARA, it would be localised/targetted at the specific muscle group(s).

I think it could be done but I do have concerns with it.

The main concern being that even with a localized carrier some of it would still go systemic. We could minimize how much would go systemic, but its impossible to have zero go systemic.

X-Gels(ARA) is one of the best natty products for strength and size gains. Having it as a concentrated and localised topical could make it even better, increase it's efficiancy, minimize the side effects and open it up to a wider audience... For example, people with joint related auto-immune disorders.

I am interested and do think this could have potential. I would ideally like to think of something to add with it.

As someone with an auto-immune disorder myself, I would honestly still have to tell people with autoimmune disorders to avoid any product with ARA in it just to be on the safe side. Or if they are going to use it, to start off with an absolutely minimal dose and make sure it doesn't bother them.

 

[Oliver Kween]

Hello @sns8778 Do you remember? When I briefly mentioned a topic about D ribose.
And since some research, I found this, regarding the side effects. These seem strange and rather to be avoided.

Side effects
Keep in mind that the safety profile of D-ribose is relatively difficult to determine given the lack of well-designed clinical studies. The list of side effects below is not definitive, and you should consult your doctor about other potential side effects based on your medical condition and possible interactions with medications or supplements. Consult a doctor if you notice any severe or mild and persistent side effects after D-ribose supplementation.
By inducing protein aggregation and rapidly producing AGEs (advanced glycation end products), D-ribose may be involved in cellular dysfunction and cognitive impairment [31, 32].

D-ribose in glycation and protein aggregation - PubMed (nih.gov)

And

Rapid glycation with D-ribose induces amyloid-like globular aggregations of BSA with high cytotoxicity for SH-SY5Y cells - PMC (nih.gov)

Now, I'm not sure if it's a good idea to consume it...

D-ribose in glycation and protein aggregation - PubMed (nih.gov)

Rapid glycation with D-ribose induces globular amyloid-like aggregations of BSA with high cytotoxicity to SH-SY5Y cells - PMC (nih.gov)

 

[Slims]

I think it could be done but I do have concerns with it.

The main concern being that even with a localized carrier some of it would still go systemic. We could minimize how much would go systemic, but its impossible to have zero go systemic.



I am interested and do think this could have potential. I would ideally like to think of something to add with it.

As someone with an auto-immune disorder myself, I would honestly still have to tell people with autoimmune disorders to avoid any product with ARA in it just to be on the safe side. Or if they are going to use it, to start off with an absolutely minimal dose and make sure it doesn't bother them.

I totally understand that anything topical couldn't be 100% localised, but it could mitigate the more common (potential) side effect.

When you say you'd like to add something to it, would that be to increase the effects of ARA or to decrease the potential for joint pain? Something like laxogenin maybe, which increases joint comfort but without being an anti-inflammatory and therefore not interfere or counteract the pro-inflammatory response/effects of ARA. Whilst also adding a little extra natty anabolic kick itself.

 

[sns8778]

Hello @sns8778 Do you remember? When I briefly mentioned a topic about D ribose.
And since some research, I found this, regarding the side effects. These seem strange and rather to be avoided.

Side effects
Keep in mind that the safety profile of D-ribose is relatively difficult to determine given the lack of well-designed clinical studies. The list of side effects below is not definitive, and you should consult your doctor about other potential side effects based on your medical condition and possible interactions with medications or supplements. Consult a doctor if you notice any severe or mild and persistent side effects after D-ribose supplementation.
By inducing protein aggregation and rapidly producing AGEs (advanced glycation end products), D-ribose may be involved in cellular dysfunction and cognitive impairment [31, 32].

D-ribose in glycation and protein aggregation - PubMed (nih.gov)

And

Rapid glycation with D-ribose induces amyloid-like globular aggregations of BSA with high cytotoxicity for SH-SY5Y cells - PMC (nih.gov)

Now, I'm not sure if it's a good idea to consume it...

D-ribose in glycation and protein aggregation - PubMed (nih.gov)

Rapid glycation with D-ribose induces globular amyloid-like aggregations of BSA with high cytotoxicity to SH-SY5Y cells - PMC (nih.gov)

We don't use Ribose in any products.

I think its overrated for athletic purposes anyway and is very expensive for what it is.

 

[sns8778]

I totally understand that anything topical couldn't be 100% localised, but it could mitigate the more common (potential) side effect.

When you say you'd like to add something to it, would that be to increase the effects of ARA or to decrease the potential for joint pain? Something like laxogenin maybe, which increases joint comfort but without being an anti-inflammatory and therefore not interfere or counteract the pro-inflammatory response/effects of ARA. Whilst also adding a little extra natty anabolic kick itself.

I didn't mean it in either of those ways. I was thinking more along the lines of just another good ingredient to help the formula sell better.

ARA is a very beloved ingredient by a lot of people that like it, but overall it really doesn't sell very well.

The FDA has Laxogenin on its list of things that it says don't meet the legal definition of a dietary supplement, so I doubt we would add that to anything. But yes, something along those lines.

 

[TommyTuffGuy]

Monthly Libido SNS Supplement check!

 

[sns8778]

Monthly Libido SNS Supplement check!

Labels for Libido Boost XT are done, formulas done, etc. The labels should go to print either tomorrow or next week, so then its just a matter of fitting it in the production lineup.

There are a lot of new products that we're wanting to bring out - we are just also focusing on increasing existing inventory levels on good selling products as well, so its just a process. I wish it was a quicker one.

 

[Brianmc83]

Labels for Libido Boost XT are done, formulas done, etc. The labels should go to print either tomorrow or next week, so then its just a matter of fitting it in the production lineup.

There are a lot of new products that we're wanting to bring out - we are just also focusing on increasing existing inventory levels on good selling products as well, so its just a process. I wish it was a quicker one.

Any chance you release formula in advance?

 

[sns8778]

Any chance you release formula in advance?

If we do, it would be a week or two in advance. I don't like to release the formulas of things until I have a concrete ETA for them.

 

[Ziyo]

I’m eagerly waiting for prostate support, daily gains and melatonin free sleep formula )

 

[sns8778]

I’m eagerly waiting for prostate support, daily gains and melatonin free sleep formula )

Thank you. I'm looking forward to those myself.

We've been really focused on getting existing inventory levels up, but starting in about a month, it should be a fun rest of the year for new product releases.