SkRaw85
Legend
Cuz the whole state of CA migrated here.
High Test / Low Tren / Tbol V.2
- Thread starter DinosaurMuffins
- Start date
Cuz the whole state of CA migrated here.
Mikereyn513
Well-known member
The funny thing is my cousin dida few years ago from Santa Barbara of all places SMHExcept for @mikeyreyn513
DinosaurMuffins
Member
Week 5 Day 1:
Bench press max
prior to the cycle, I was at 265lbs 1 rep max. I just repped 315 lbs. felt like I was close to getting it twice.
Huge gains all around. Arms legs, back, shoulders, everything. Waist is still trimming but slightly slowing. Dick gain is there too I feel. I feel like I got some girth which is nice. In that area, I was not really lacking but feel like I am more round.
Feeling awesome except my left heel is tight as ****. Like above the back about an inch above the heel. I am going to ice it but don't want to slow down on my elliptical.
Bench press max
prior to the cycle, I was at 265lbs 1 rep max. I just repped 315 lbs. felt like I was close to getting it twice.Huge gains all around. Arms legs, back, shoulders, everything. Waist is still trimming but slightly slowing. Dick gain is there too I feel. I feel like I got some girth which is nice. In that area, I was not really lacking but feel like I am more round.
Feeling awesome except my left heel is tight as ****. Like above the back about an inch above the heel. I am going to ice it but don't want to slow down on my elliptical.
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Hyde
Legend
Week 5 Day 1:
Bench press max
Huge gains all around. Arms legs, back, shoulders, everything. Waist is still trimming but slightly slowing. Dick gain is there too I feel. I feel like I got some girth which is nice. In that area, I was not really lacking but feel like I am more round.
Feeling awesome except my left heel is tight as ****. Like above the back about an inch above the heel. I am going to ice it but don't want to slow down on my elliptical.
This is awesome to hear, and highlights my point about not necessarily needing a lot more gas the next time you blast (since it’s obviously working very well now). I have gone 2 years for just a 5lb bench PR actively trying to get stronger, so to put 50lbs on an already trained benchpress in just 5 weeks is totally bananas.
Regarding your Achilles, you do NOT want to tear that. I have had some closer calls pulling heavy sleds and loaded flatbed trucks hooked to a harness for strongman, and the guys who suffer Achilles tears it can plague forever. Give it enough rest, and also take your thumbs and press/release any knotted tissue you find in your calf on that leg. I get tight calves easily and it can really affect tension on both the knees and my ankles if I don’t mash them often enough.
DinosaurMuffins
Member
Totally understand all this. Yeah I had no idea how much it went up. Im not in it to hit all these PRs all the time and tbh I don't even really lift all that heavy all the time. I stay in the 60 to 70% range and do 8 sets of 12. I figured I would give it a try as that is my old PR. Sure as ****, I got it up. I let my excitement get the better of me sometimes. I am enjoying being back on gear. The confidence, intensity, strength, how I am looking, and the sex drive. It is hard not to have the mentality of more is better. I will slow my role on figuring out my next cycle. I think I still need to see where this one lands me. Haven't even added the Tbol yet...
I'll take it easy on my foot. I am only doing elliptical for cardio and this morning really concentrated on not moving my heel and staying flat-footed. I think that helped. Thanks for the advice on this. I hate injuries and honestly have no Idea how or what I did to it.
UnrealMachine
Well-known member
Very nice gains and a lot more fun to be had yet in the cycle 
SkRaw85
Legend
Nice gains man!
Yeah, more is better…. Till it’s not.
There are definitely hard lines in the game and for some (myself included) the only way to find the line is to cross it. Diminishing return, atrocious sides, tolerance levels, CNS fatigue, et al.
My only advice is slowly ramp up.
Yeah, more is better…. Till it’s not.
There are definitely hard lines in the game and for some (myself included) the only way to find the line is to cross it. Diminishing return, atrocious sides, tolerance levels, CNS fatigue, et al.
My only advice is slowly ramp up.
DinosaurMuffins
Member
I have 50 tabs of 25mg proviron being sent for free. My source sends weird **** extra sometimes. Wtf do I do with it? Can I/ should I throw it into cycle?
Will it out compete receptors or anything weird like that? I know it's a sexytime drug.
Will it out compete receptors or anything weird like that? I know it's a sexytime drug.
Mikereyn513
Well-known member
Never tried it, no reason to
Hyde
Legend
Save it for PCT/post cycle, or for sex, or if you go on a vacation and intend to have daily sex, or are cruising and it’s a longer vacation & don’t want to bring gear.
It’s mainly used to finish a bodybuilding prep, or guys will use it to help control gyno, or it can be used to lower SHBG like in a high test cycle otherwise devoid of orals. Or again, increased sexual pleasure.
25mg per day in a PCT for me made a tremendous difference in quality of life and had no perceivable decrease in recovery time, used in conjunction with a SERM. Human studies indicate that dose is not suppressive for the majority of men (although it will still suppress HDL slightly).
DinosaurMuffins
Member
Cool deal. I'll add it then. If it doesn't shut you down do people use it to bridge at all (besides the HDL)?
Hyde
Legend
Doses of 25mg daily generally aren’t suppressive. Just a little each day to get you through PCT easier for 4-6 weeks.
I don’t think you can really think of it as a bridge because it’s not anabolic at all; by itself it will not do anything to build or support higher levels of muscle mass. It can be thought of a bit like straight oral DHT; it’s truly androgenic in function.
Back before SERMs and AIs existed, Proviron was all there was to help prevent rebound gyno when you came off-cycle.
DinosaurMuffins
Member
Week 5, day 4:
I am super happy with my strength and muscle gains so far. What I am disappointed about is weight loss/ fat loss. I mean my diet is spot fucking on. I am hitting about 2000k calories give or take by 100 a day. I hitting 200+ protein. The scale literally is back to where it was after the first week. I'm at 201. Reminder I started at 196. So I have gained 5 lbs. I have lost a few inches off my waist and look better in the midsection but I am easily still 10 -15 lbs away from visible abs. I just feel like I am doing something wrong. My caloric burn is 1000 calories a day based on my math.
I feel my maintenance is 2100 - 2200 calories
I eat about 2000 calories
I burn extra about 1000 calories.
I will be increasing T3 in about a week. I am doing cardio 5x a week currently. During that session, I burn about 300 calories in 30 minutes. Also I do have something going on with my foot but that seems to be getting better. So I would like to increase cardio but might need another week.
I just don't want to get to the end of this and feel disappointed not to have abs.
I am super happy with my strength and muscle gains so far. What I am disappointed about is weight loss/ fat loss. I mean my diet is spot fucking on. I am hitting about 2000k calories give or take by 100 a day. I hitting 200+ protein. The scale literally is back to where it was after the first week. I'm at 201. Reminder I started at 196. So I have gained 5 lbs. I have lost a few inches off my waist and look better in the midsection but I am easily still 10 -15 lbs away from visible abs. I just feel like I am doing something wrong. My caloric burn is 1000 calories a day based on my math.
I feel my maintenance is 2100 - 2200 calories
I eat about 2000 calories
I burn extra about 1000 calories.
I will be increasing T3 in about a week. I am doing cardio 5x a week currently. During that session, I burn about 300 calories in 30 minutes. Also I do have something going on with my foot but that seems to be getting better. So I would like to increase cardio but might need another week.
I just don't want to get to the end of this and feel disappointed not to have abs.
Mikereyn513
Well-known member
If your losing inches and not weight your doing everything right. The body can't spot reduce fat and unfortunately through evolution men carry fat I'm the abdominal area and women in hips and thighs. So its probably the last place you're going to see definition. It takes time and effort. Have you ever had a visible "6 pack " before?
DinosaurMuffins
Member
Yeah back in the day. Its been over 10 years since I had a six pack.
my waist went from 36.5 to now a 33.5 and my hips are down about 1.5-2 inches as well from like 38.5 to 36.5. I also notice that I have less titty fat. It is like it's more contoured and my nipple is pointing more down now. Before it was down and out. So I know I am making progress but I just make to make sure I am doing the most. I have heard people talking about tren and how every day they see a difference. I wouldn't say that it's like that for me. It's like every week.
gphagan1
Legend
Yeah, I wouldn’t worry so much about the scale. The best progress tools are a tape measure and mirror. Like Mike said, if your waist is getting smaller and Chest, Legs, and Arms bigger that’s success.
Hyde
Legend
Those people are exaggerating, or at the end of a contest prep where you are so lean you can see obvious changes from hardening (there is a Tren look at contest that is part of why it is so universally utilized).
You were over 20% bodyfat, easily. You need to be around 15% to start getting visible abs for most, AND you had a lower caloric maintenance to begin with, AND thyroid issues.
It’s going to take some work for a while; you didn’t build that fat overnight. You could throw some 24-36 hour fasts in there if you really want to step things up.
What’s your current thyroid stack, for reference?
UnrealMachine
Well-known member
As someone else who’s on 2K calories and weight holding pretty stable (and I wanted to cut but I’m getting a recomp for the last 3 weeks) what I’ll say is that a recomp is the slowest because you’re both building muscle and losing fat.
But your #s show huge progress. Trust in the numbers. Keep going recomp need a long time. More cardio never hurts since with Tren hour LBM will be invincible, or you could play around with the intensity.
But your #s show huge progress. Trust in the numbers. Keep going recomp need a long time. More cardio never hurts since with Tren hour LBM will be invincible, or you could play around with the intensity.
DinosaurMuffins
Member
It's bitiron (for now) Just bumped it up this week from 25mcg t3 /100mcg t4 to 37.5 t3 /150mcg t4 as of this week. I have t3 making its way through customs now. Should have 200 tabs of 25mcg t3 in a week. I plan to bump up probably to 62.5 range to 75mcg. I also take Selinum which is supposed to help with t4 conversion to t3. I take it first thing and then do my cardio on empty stomach. Then lift immediately after.
Mikereyn513
Well-known member
The reason I asked about the 6 pack was because in all honesty you nay not even get it this cycle. Just being honest. Its not easy believe me like @Hyde Said you're around 20% b.f and what you're looking for is around 10%. I just don't see dropping 10% bodyfat in 1 cycle. But that doesnt mean it isn't a success at all
DinosaurMuffins
Member
Also just want to add. I appreciate all the advice
Fair enough. I might not and if not I "OK" with that but it is the goal. Once I hit that this cycle or next I feel confident on just staying as close to maintaining and getting bigger. I am not someone that needs to be sub-10 for a contest.
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Hyde
Legend
I think that bump makes perfect sense to me.
That being said, I would NOT add even more T3 up to 62.5mcg, not right now for sure. Most men find they really start losing muscle significantly with bigger doses of T3. Standard for a cut is to replace at 25-30mcg. You also flatten out a lot and really start to lose performance (which helps preserve muscle, which is important for burning more fat/keeping a higher metabolic baseline).
If you aren’t utilizing some caffeine and ephedrine pre-cardio, that can help. If you tolerate Yohimbine, you would want that as well.
Mikereyn513
Well-known member
Or clenbuterol like 2 weeks if clen then 2 weeks ephedrine/caffeine are you doing fasted cardio by chance?
Hyde
Legend
Again, I would hold this off for now since thyroid is already getting bumped, but this is a proven strategy.
If you use Clen, use like 20-60mcg, ramping up. Just because they sell it in 200mcg/ml does not mean you want to use that much. You only get one heart.
DinosaurMuffins
Member
First pip issue. I pined my left shoulder yesterday with a 1-inch 25g. Has been working great. I now over the last 24 hours started to have pain on my outer Tricep head. A little swollen and painful but only when I touch it really and like a 4/10. I feel like I must have a subq leak. I have been holding a hot compress on it and rubbing it out some. Not super worried. Never had this happened before though?
Smont
Legend
I'm gonna be the constructive criticism guy here. Get the abs out of your head and keep dieting because it's highly unlikely to happen in 3 months unless yiu were close to being with. From prior experience I will tell you this. Look in the mirror and give yourself a honest assessment of how much weight you think you would need to loose to have a six pack and whatever number you think it is, you probably need to double it. I'm not saying you In particular, I'm talking about everybody. We all massively underestimate how much fat we think we need to loose to get ripped. My first time dedicating myself to get ripped I was about 223lbs and had just hit a 353 bench press. I remember thinking man if I loose 10lbs IL be ripped, So I cut 10 pounds and then I looked in the mirror and said man if I lose 10 more pounds I'll be ripped so I cut 10 pounds and then I looked in the mirror and said man if I lose 10 more pounds I'll be ripped and before you knew it I was ripped but I lost 40 pounds to get there.
My 10lb assessment was actually 40. But on the bright side, when you start going back in the other direction progress is twice as fast once you have successfully dieted the fat off
DinosaurMuffins
Member
All good man, I take 0 offense. I have some weight to strip off for sure. I am doing well overall but the whole scale not moving is a mind ****. All good, I understand what is going on just weird.
I'll get there. Just tired of struggling. I have been trying to get leaner for a long time and didn't realize I was fucked by my thyroid so, just been at it a long time with minimal progress. Until now.
Smont
Legend
It sounds like a leak I agree. I had it happen once around my hip, and once in anotherspot recently, it lasted about 5 days both times
DinosaurMuffins
Member
Thanks for confirming. Its not that bad overall all just sore but still able to lift with it. Just going to heat it and massage gun it. I'll move to my glutes for a week just to give it a break.
Smont
Legend
Massage gun is going to make it way worse
DinosaurMuffins
Member
10-4 on that. LOL I don't want to make that **** worse.
Mikereyn513
Well-known member
I have to tell you the same story I bulked up to 240 this past July but I could see a small outline of the top 4 abs so I think just cut to 225 and you'll be ripped. Well as @Smont And @Hyde will tell you I dieted and trained my ass off from labor day to Christmas along with test deca anadrol and clen. And I didn't have what you're looking for until I got to 205. That's 35 pounds!! But like @Smont Said it does get easier. Now I'm 230 but still Have a full 6 pack the pic you've seen of me I was at 225
DinosaurMuffins
Member
Totally understand and realize I have way more fat than I think. It's just hard to judge what's there and whats not especially after 10 years.
I cool with where I land. My biggest thing is because my thyroid it's just been so damn hard to get trimmed I have been looking at this as "my shot" to make it happen. Probably not the best way to look at it.
DinosaurMuffins
Member
Week 6, Day 1.
Jumped on the scale and it hasn't moved. Which is fine especially because I had a 1-year-old birthday party for my daughter yesterday and eat a **** ton of pizza. First time I have really eaten like **** since on cycle. I ate 4 slices of Costco pizza which equaled about 1500 calories and about 600 calories of macaroni. It was fucking delicious. The rest of my day was normal diet.
So here is a question. I am coming up to the point I could introduce my T-bol. BUT.... I also was going to up t3 and I do have about 4 weeks of clen otw. So my question is, should I add all that **** at the same time? I know that I get a slight increase in BP from Tbol. Not bad and my levels are pretty solid normally. I just don't want to over do it.
Jumped on the scale and it hasn't moved. Which is fine especially because I had a 1-year-old birthday party for my daughter yesterday and eat a **** ton of pizza. First time I have really eaten like **** since on cycle. I ate 4 slices of Costco pizza which equaled about 1500 calories and about 600 calories of macaroni. It was fucking delicious. The rest of my day was normal diet.
So here is a question. I am coming up to the point I could introduce my T-bol. BUT.... I also was going to up t3 and I do have about 4 weeks of clen otw. So my question is, should I add all that **** at the same time? I know that I get a slight increase in BP from Tbol. Not bad and my levels are pretty solid normally. I just don't want to over do it.
Smont
Legend
Just be careful with your expectations. Everyone wants it yesterday, me too
, trust me. But think about this perspective. You just said 10 years, Do you really think you're going to erase 10 years in 3 months? Even if you could, your using tren and tren does specific things that only tren does. When yiu discontinue the tren a lot of those things are gonna go back to normal. This is how guys get into this endless cycle of tren, tren, tren. Because they start chasing after that recomp look that happens on tren. Trust me you do not want to stay on it year round, from a longevity and mental health perspective you don't ever wanna be on it. I'm a firm believer tren has a accumulative effect on mental health. I think it's the only steroid that really causes changesMikereyn513
Well-known member
As far as I know tren is the only steroid that has been scientifically proven to have an effect on the brain and mental health. Other ones like winny or halo you may think do but usually it's because you're on serious caloric deficit with those and overdoing cardio...but hey you'll look fantastic so f.ck it lolJust be careful with your expectations. Everyone wants it yesterday, me too
Mikereyn513
Well-known member
This is a tough one..this is a lot for a first cycle hop on the clen and then add t3. Or vice versa because the tren is already providing thermogenesis
DinosaurMuffins
Member
Im already using the t3 at 38.5mcg. I have read conflicting things about norms being between 12.5mcg and 25mcg. Which is a big range. I just want to up the t3 to 50mcg. So another 12.5mcg.
The clen I would run minimal at 40mcg.
Tbol I would run at 50mg and have 8 weeks 3 weeks of that would be past last injection leading up to pct.
DinosaurMuffins
Member
Ok last question for the day. Had a good workout today, Chest, Tris, and abs but noticed I have pain in my damn right leg out the front part of the shin. So like the opposite of calf. It's like a leg ache, feels like needs to be stretched, and feels like a kind of SI pain. It was hurting some last night too.
So I figure its either just cramps, SI pain (which I have had before but not recently), or a shin pump. I don't know what it is though. I have Taurine because I know that helps back and shin pumps. Should I take it? I read 7g? Which is like 7 f-ing pills. Should I take this? I don't think its anything serious like a blood clot. It's not warm, not red, and not that bad of a pain.
So I figure its either just cramps, SI pain (which I have had before but not recently), or a shin pump. I don't know what it is though. I have Taurine because I know that helps back and shin pumps. Should I take it? I read 7g? Which is like 7 f-ing pills. Should I take this? I don't think its anything serious like a blood clot. It's not warm, not red, and not that bad of a pain.
Hyde
Legend
Congrats on your daughter’s birthday!!
No, do not up T3 further; it is not selective and will just as easily roast muscle off as fat. If you lose muscle you will have even less way to maintain your new lower bodyfat at the end of the blast. Muscle should be spared at all costs.
Clen at that dose is fine but introducing it will like jack bp & pulse through the roof, worse than an oral. Starting both at once instead of rolling into each in a titrate fashion is a great way to blast your kidneys and feel like **** unnecessarily. Start one or the other first, give it a couple weeks, then add the other.
No, do not up T3 further; it is not selective and will just as easily roast muscle off as fat. If you lose muscle you will have even less way to maintain your new lower bodyfat at the end of the blast. Muscle should be spared at all costs.
Clen at that dose is fine but introducing it will like jack bp & pulse through the roof, worse than an oral. Starting both at once instead of rolling into each in a titrate fashion is a great way to blast your kidneys and feel like **** unnecessarily. Start one or the other first, give it a couple weeks, then add the other.
Smont
Legend
Regardless, after this cycle id taper down t3 and I'd look Into supplements that unregulate thyroid function. Normally I wouldn't even consider that but seeing you got thyroid issues. Unless you plan on always being on t3?
DinosaurMuffins
Member
Yeah, I will ramp down the t3 for sure and come off completely. My prescription is for t4 which honestly I have opinions about. I think it only does so much. I had my TSH checked and it came down to 2.9 which I am not happy with when the "high normal range is.9" My free t4 and T3 didn't change much but I did feel less tired and lost a small amount of weight. I would much prefer a replacement dose (normal levels) of T3 than T4.
DinosaurMuffins
Member
So what would be better.. Run say like Tbol at 25mg with the 40mg Clen or skip clen and run 50mg tbol? I can titrate up as well.
Smont
Legend
T4 is the body's hormone, it converts to active t3 And the process in which T4 converts to T3 in your body is an anabolic process. Taking t3 on its own won't fix the problem and t3 makes you loose muscle. It is way better to take a prescription for T4 than it is for T3
Hyde
Legend
I would start Clen at 20mcg a few mornings, then go to 40mcg the rest of the week, then take my bp the next week and if it’s acceptable I’d add 25mg Tbol during week 2 or so. Then when that is stable, I would bump to 50 Tbol.
If you do that over a couple weeks, it will be less egregious than starting both full dose simultaneously usually.