JT Mass: Post show rebound and off-season

[Rocket3015]

Curry Chicken = Yum !!

 

[jtmass]

So, I am done with the nutrition plan. Post workout shake: I may add another 50gms or carbs with dextrose for some quick action.

Also, I need a suggestion. Should I add Humalog Lispro or Lantus?

 

[Hyde]

Looks yummy. You know you don’t have to measure vegetables in the off-season right?

 

[Hyde]

Also, what do YOU think you should do regarding insulin? That is not something to just be taking an internet poll on.

Have you ever used any insulin before? If not, you will want to literally start with 1iu and work up 1iu at a time over more experiences slowly to determine what you can handle and need (and have fast carbs available if you start to go hypo obviously). The biggest thing is not adjusting your normal diet to add insulin - insulin’s job is to more efficiently shuttle what you already have planned to consume. And if you can only handle 2iu, that’s all you take. You do not add carbs to use more: that’s how guys get fat.

 

[Rocket3015]

@Hyde sometimes your knowledge just blows me away.

 

[Hyde]

@Hyde sometimes your knowledge just blows me away.

It’s not something that is supposed to be talked about on this board, so I just want people to be really safe and do their due diligence learning about it if they are going to try it. Diabetics use it safely every day, but it can KILL you if you make simple measurement mistakes and don’t correct the issue, and there are a lot of places to get misinformation in the gym world too.

 

[Rocket3015]

Good Looking Out!!

 

[jtmass]

Looks yummy. You know you don’t have to measure vegetables in the off-season right?

This is my first off-season.. I don’t know jack about what to do in an off- season, tbh.. lol

Also, what do YOU think you should do regarding insulin? That is not something to just be taking an internet poll on.

Have you ever used any insulin before? If not, you will want to literally start with 1iu and work up 1iu at a time over more experiences slowly to determine what you can handle and need (and have fast carbs available if you start to go hypo obviously). The biggest thing is not adjusting your normal diet to add insulin - insulin’s job is to more efficiently shuttle what you already have planned to consume. And if you can only handle 2iu, that’s all you take. You do not add carbs to use more: that’s how guys get fat.

I have used Lispro (coach’s plan) from the start of my prep till about 2 weeks out from my first show in Jan. So, for about 30-32 weeks, I believe. Coach wanted me to continue with Lispro even this time, but, I just couldn’t handle Lispro. Was getting hypo in the gym. So. Stopped. I was thinking lantus after meal 2 because carbs will be moderate to high and it will help keep insulin at an even level throughout the day.

 

[jtmass]

Good Looking Out!!

That's the reason I keep posting everything and anything about diet to training to gear. I know folks like hyde and smont are there to help out and give suggestions. Helps me do more thinking about the plans I lay out.

 

[Rocket3015]

This is my first off-season.. I don’t know jack about what to do in an off- season, tbh.. lol

Get Big, keep your waist small.

JT, I feel guilty sometimes because I don't have the knowledge to help you like Hyde or Smont do, so I am here for moral support and a friend when yo need one!!

 

[jtmass]

Get Big, keep your waist small.

JT, I feel guilty sometimes because I don't have the knowledge to help you like Hyde or Smont do, so I am here for moral support and a friend when yo need one!!

Rocket.. You have been a great moral support for me through out this journey and you always have reinforced in me to stay positive when things were going south in my personal life. I am really happy and appreciate that you're with me on this journey, though you're 1000s of miles away.

 

[jtmass]

My blood report is here.. After all that abuse of orals, I am glad to report, my lipids are not fukd up. I guess I am lucky bast#rd..

My test and E2 is low. So is my LH and FSH. Which was expected. Renal is all okay.

SGOT and SGPT are out of range. Which I expect isn’t that bad because of the stress I have put my body through with training and gear. I am guessing these values are going to remain as long as I train and maintain muscle or grow.

CBC is yet to come in. I’ll get it tomorrow.

I am thinking about starting my rebound with 150mg test E and 300mg Primo.

What do you guys think looking at the blood report? Shall I start now with the gear?

 

[Hyde]

First, yes you are an amazingly lucky bastard to have lipids like that after all those orals. That’s where I try to get my lipids before I start a blast

Your eGFR isn’t that awesome. It’s fine if it was like this before the last year, but do you have bloods from earlier on to compare it to? Because if you lost 5-15 points on it that’s not going to be sustainable over the coming years. Tell me if you have earlier bloods to compare that too.

Liver enzymes are bad, but you did use orals for most of the year. What do you take for liver support, then or now? How many hours after any training was this blood drawn?

Are you on any testosterone now? If not, when was last shot & how much? We do not want testosterone or estrogen that low at all.

Do NOT pin anything until you get your CBC back tomorrow. You need to know what your blood looks like before you can determine the safest course of action. If your RBC is sky high, you might need to donate before you push a bunch of primo.

 

[jtmass]

First, yes you are an amazingly lucky bastard to have lipids like that after all those orals. That’s where I try to get my lipids before I start a blast

Your eGFR isn’t that awesome. It’s fine if it was like this before the last year, but do you have bloods from earlier on to compare it to? Because if you lost 5-15 points on it that’s not going to be sustainable over the coming years. Tell me if you have earlier bloods to compare that too.

Liver enzymes are bad, but you did use orals for most of the year. What do you take for liver support, then or now? How many hours after any training was this blood drawn?

Are you on any testosterone now? If not, when was last shot & how much? We do not want testosterone or estrogen that low at all.

Do NOT pin anything until you get your CBC back tomorrow. You need to know what your blood looks like before you can determine the safest course of action. If your RBC is sky high, you might need to donate before you push a bunch of primo.

I don’t have eGFR from before because my coach didn’t ask me to do eGFR. But, from reading I understood that this is very important to assess. So, I took it this time. I plan to Re-take the test after 6 weeks to see where all the values are.

For liver, I was taking Milk Thistle Extract 25:1 @ 1.6gms, Astragalus extract @ 1.6gms and still taking. May be I should think about adding Tudca? I haven’t trained for 7days.

My last shot of test or any PEDs was on 24th Feb.

Yeah.. I am not planning to take a shot until I see my CBC including Hematocrit.

 

[jtmass]

First, yes you are an amazingly lucky bastard to have lipids like that after all those orals. That’s where I try to get my lipids before I start a blast

Your eGFR isn’t that awesome. It’s fine if it was like this before the last year, but do you have bloods from earlier on to compare it to? Because if you lost 5-15 points on it that’s not going to be sustainable over the coming years. Tell me if you have earlier bloods to compare that too.

Liver enzymes are bad, but you did use orals for most of the year. What do you take for liver support, then or now? How many hours after any training was this blood drawn?

Are you on any testosterone now? If not, when was last shot & how much? We do not want testosterone or estrogen that low at all.

Do NOT pin anything until you get your CBC back tomorrow. You need to know what your blood looks like before you can determine the safest course of action. If your RBC is sky high, you might need to donate before you push a bunch of primo.

Btw, Hyde.. thank you.. this definitely is helpful taking to you and understanding what course of action to take.

 

[Hyde]

Btw, Hyde.. thank you.. this definitely is helpful taking to you and understanding what course of action to take.

So I would definitely double the Astragalus, get over the 3g mark daily - this is for kidney health reasons. Basically the dose you take daily now, take that morning and evening with some water. One of the only things that can repair/restore kidney function and basically should be a staple for many competitors.

Definitely try to pick up TUDCA and add that as a staple (assuming it goes well on bloodwork over time). I have been on it for over a year. 250mg daily each morning is plenty. Think longterm basal use. It also effects protein utilization, so it indirectly will support the kidneys through your daily high protein diet. Take that first thing each day for that with your astragalus and big cup of water. You don’t need to worry about adding bioperine for better absorption because we actually only need a small amount for the benefits from regular use.

Is your test bunk? Or were you not on Enanthate or cypionate? Because if you were on one of them you should still see some test levels 10 days later for sure.

 

[Hyde]

Kidney health is the #1 thing that will mandate an end to AAS use. If you kill those, you are done competing.

Heart health is the #1 thing that will kill you in the longterm from AAS, much later, of course, but that’s a separate discussion.

 

[Hyde]

I just want to say I’m not a bodybuilder or some kind of expert, but I don’t mind sharing my experiences or opinions with people if they want to talk shop. Always good to bounce ideas around; sometimes we can all find something useful.

Chew up the meat & spit out the bone - I believe in that which is useful to me.

 

[SkRaw85]

I just want to say I’m not a bodybuilder or some kind of expert, but I don’t mind sharing my experiences or opinions with people if they want to talk shop. Always good to bounce ideas around; sometimes we can all find something useful.

Chew up the meat & spit out the bone - I believe in that which is useful to me.

Anabolic Yoda fo sho!

Helped me out with an encyclopedia of knowledge bombs over the years. Much respect and appreciation.

 

[jtmass]

So I would definitely double the Astragalus, get over the 3g mark daily - this is for kidney health reasons. Basically the dose you take daily now, take that morning and evening with some water. One of the only things that can repair/restore kidney function and basically should be a staple for many competitors.

Definitely try to pick up TUDCA and add that as a staple (assuming it goes well on bloodwork over time). I have been on it for over a year. 250mg daily each morning is plenty. Think longterm basal use. It also effects protein utilization, so it indirectly will support the kidneys through your daily high protein diet. Take that first thing each day for that with your astragalus and big cup of water. You don’t need to worry about adding bioperine for better absorption because we actually only need a small amount for the benefits from regular use.

Is your test bunk? Or were you not on Enanthate or cypionate? Because if you were on one of them you should still see some test levels 10 days later for sure.

I’ll start taking the supps at those doses.

I just realized that, yes, my test should have been definitely higher unless my body is just that efficient at clearing it quickly. Which I believe cannot be the case. I’ll definitely check this after getting my CBC result. It’s not too expensive to check test levels. I’ll take a shot and wait for about 12hrs and recheck my test level.

I sent the report to my coach and he wants me to PCT because he wants my liver values and test to come back to normal range.

I just can’t agree with his approach anymore. I want to utilize this rebound to the max and gain some tissue quickly.

So, I told him I’ll just do 150 test and 300 primo for 6 weeks and then PCT. He said okay and asked me to do 500mg sustanon. I don’t want to 500mg. I feel that’s too much.

 

[SkRaw85]

I’ll start taking the supps at those doses.

I just realized that, yes, my test should have been definitely higher unless my body is just that efficient at clearing it quickly. Which I believe cannot be the case. I’ll definitely check this after getting my CBC result. It’s not too expensive to check test levels. I’ll take a shot and wait for about 12hrs and recheck my test level.

I sent the report to my coach and he wants me to PCT because he wants my liver values and test to come back to normal range.

I just can’t agree with his approach anymore. I want to utilize this rebound to the max and gain some tissue quickly.

So, I told him I’ll just do 150 test and 300 primo for 6 weeks and then PCT. He said okay and asked me to do 500mg sustanon. I don’t want to 500mg. I feel that’s too much.

500 sust right now?! That’s not wise if that’s the case.

 

[jtmass]

500 sust right now?! That’s not wise if that’s the case.

I am not going to do it. His approach has always been more gear. Initially when I started, I knew nothing about gear. Not that I know a lot even now, but, after watching many folks talk about rebound and in general about gear, I think pushing gear at this stage is only going to mess up my internals even more.

I think it’s time to say bye bye.. goodbye…

 

[Hyde]

PCT and advancing as a competitive bodybuilder do not belong in the same conversation. Especially when the reason is liver health: why would a guy start taking a SERM, which is a drug that has to be consumed orally & metabolized first pass by the liver, to lower liver stress instead of cruise on a modest replacement dose of testosterone? Which also avoids all of the catabolic, hypogonadal cortisol mess that PCT is?

PCT is great for guys cycling here and there for a boost. For someone trying to acquire supraphysiological levels of tissue and maintain it for a span of years, getting back natural production isn’t going to cut it. I can attest firsthand, having spun my wheels for years with PCT. And I’m not even muscular by any actual bodybuilding standards.

 

[Smont]

Ok folks let's give the guy a follow, maybe a share and help his hard work be noticed, maybe we can help propel his to stardom or a deal with a supplement company, who knows ???

I would but I don't do social media, I haven't even logged on Facebook in 7 years, last time I was on there I was drunk and kinda skinny fat lol

 

[Smont]

What's a basa filet? Fish???

 

[jtmass]

What's a basa filet? Fish???

Yup.. it’s kinda look alike of a cat fish I believe. It’s usually farmed.

 

[jtmass]

So, here is my CBC. Everything looks good to me

@Hyde I am thinking about starting with just 150mg Test C and Primo 300mg. Less sides, keep a healthy levels of Test and manage E2.

I know why my E2 has probably crashed. I was doing 2.5mg of Letro everyday and 0.25mg if Caber once a week. And of course 41 weeks of Orals doesn’t help overall.

 

[jtmass]

PCT and advancing as a competitive bodybuilder do not belong in the same conversation. Especially when the reason is liver health: why would a guy start taking a SERM, which is a drug that has to be consumed orally & metabolized first pass by the liver, to lower liver stress instead of cruise on a modest replacement dose of testosterone? Which also avoids all of the catabolic, hypogonadal cortisol mess that PCT is?

PCT is great for guys cycling here and there for a boost. For someone trying to acquire supraphysiological levels of tissue and maintain it for a span of years, getting back natural production isn’t going to cut it. I can attest firsthand, having spun my wheels for years with PCT. And I’m not even muscular by any actual bodybuilding standards.

Oh.. I am definitely not going to PCT now. That’s not in my plan. You explaining it makes perfect sense. When I ask him ‘why’ should I PCT, his answer was getting my normals hormone values back and liver values back. Of course, that didn’t make any sense.

 

[Hyde]

So, here is my CBC. Everything looks good to me

View attachment 213565

@Hyde I am thinking about starting with just 150mg Test C and Primo 300mg. Less sides, keep a healthy levels of Test and manage E2.

I know why my E2 has probably crashed. I was doing 2.5mg of Letro everyday and 0.25mg if Caber once a week. And of course 41 weeks of Orals doesn’t help overall.

I really wonder if your test is bunk or massively underdosed. Hemoglobin and hematocrit are seem rather low for someone using any amount of testosterone for an extended period. For reference, my hemoglobin at that draw 2 weeks ago was just slightly high at 17.4 and my hematocrit/pcv was 50.1.

Letro will indeed crash your e2 very quickly, especially at that dosage, so that’s also an explanation for the e2 level regardless of whether your testosterone was good. Caber will only effect your prolactin, FYI.

I would consider starting at 150/150 test/primo, or at least at a 1:1 ratio (200/200, etc), until you know how primo effects your estrogen metabolism (then adjust from there). For some guys primo can lower or offset e2 a lot, similar to how eq can occasionally. When I tried to cruise 120/120 test/eq it crashed my e2 down to 17 (I do best at 40+) by the time I was just getting stable levels around 7 weeks on it. I would probably need 4:1 test/eq if I wanted to use it.

Also, since blood markers are all on the low side, if your testosterone isn’t bunk then we know you clearly can tolerate test well from a blood thickening perspective. But do get a test panel to be sure it’s legit after you pin it.

 

[jtmass]

I really wonder if your test is bunk or massively underdosed. Hemoglobin and hematocrit are seem rather low for someone using any amount of testosterone for an extended period. For reference, my hemoglobin at that draw 2 weeks ago was just slightly high at 17.4 and my hematocrit/pcv was 50.1.

Letro will indeed crash your e2 very quickly, especially at that dosage, so that’s also an explanation for the e2 level regardless of whether your testosterone was good. Caber will only effect your prolactin, FYI.

I would consider starting at 150/150 test/primo, or at least at a 1:1 ratio (200/200, etc), until you know how primo effects your estrogen metabolism (then adjust from there). For some guys primo can lower or offset e2 a lot, similar to how eq can occasionally. When I tried to cruise 120/120 test/eq it crashed my e2 down to 17 (I do best at 40+) by the time I was just getting stable levels around 7 weeks on it. I would probably need 4:1 test/eq if I wanted to use it.

Also, since blood markers are all on the low side, if your testosterone isn’t bunk then we know you clearly can tolerate test well from a blood thickening perspective. But do get a test panel to be sure it’s legit after you pin it.

Have to clarify.. I was using Test Prop and not Cyp. So, I believe test was good.

Test Prop: 450mg, Mast: 300mg, Tren Ace: 300mg, Primo: 300mg, Proviron: 50mg, Stana: 80mg (but I did 60mg), Var: 80mg (I did 60mg)

 

[jtmass]

Will keep it at 1:1 first 2 weeks and check my E2 and Test and then at the end of 6 weeks.

 

[Hyde]

Will keep it at 1:1 first 2 weeks and check my E2 and Test and then at the end of 6 weeks.

Remember it’s going to take about 4 weeks just for long esters to really reach peak levels, so don’t test too soon.

Yes if it was prop then you definitely would have no test. Was all of that oil short ester (prop/ace)? If so, you have been off everything within a few days of stopping shots.

 

[jtmass]

Remember it’s going to take about 4 weeks just for long esters to really reach peak levels, so don’t test too soon.

Yes if it was prop then you definitely would have no test. Was all of that oil short ester (prop/ace)? If so, you have been off everything within a few days of stopping shots.

Done.. I’ll check after 6 weeks.

It was all prop except for Primo, which was Enanthate. Tren was ace. So, I believe, the values justify?

I am going to start pinning from tomorrow.. Test E and Primo. For some odd reason, I don’t feel like crap yet.. I have decent strength in the gym and energy overall.

Need to clean up the diet a bit more. Can’t get all my meals in the way I wanted.

 

[jtmass]

Another update:

Will be hopefully traveling to Ireland in April. Will stay for 3 months. I’ll continue my diet and training. Not sure about the gear. I was thinking about carrying. But, syringe is definitely going to be a problem even in check-in luggage.

Anyone from Ireland in our forum?

 

[SkRaw85]

Hmmmm, might be worth checking out ease of availability over there. I’m not sure of the legalities. Super easy in Scotland/England

 

[jtmass]

Hmmmm, might be worth checking out ease of availability over there. I’m not sure of the legalities. Super easy in Scotland/England

I'll definitely be hitting a gym there. Will make some friends. My sister works at a hospital. But, I am sure, I cannot ask her to get me syringes and needles. everything get monitored..

Totally different scene in India though..

 

[Hyde]

I would talk to her and find out if syringes and needles are otc there, and if so if you can find any domestic UGLs there or if any steroids are otc there like Mexico, Thailand, etc. Assuming it’s controlled but you can get syringes there, I would either take your oil with you all pre-mixed in one vial, or see if you can make a transdermal test cream and take that in 100ml travel containers. You can put oil in an essential oils container or something equally believable, but now it’s not even close to sterile.

Lastly, if neither oil or transdermal is an option, you could always frontload a triple dose to get you by for a month and bring a bottle of Dbol for the remainder of the time.

 

[SkRaw85]

Test undecanoate could also be an option if all else fails. I’m sure you can find this in India. Perhaps a bit more stable than front loading enanthate

 

[jtmass]

My sister can get unlimited supply of syringes and needles.. so, that’s sorted.. I’ll just premix my oils in a bigger vial and put it in my pouch where I keep all the bathroom essentials and stuff. Will cover it up well.

Sorted!!

 

[SkRaw85]

My sister can get unlimited supply of syringes and needles.. so, that’s sorted.. I’ll just premix my oils in a bigger vial and put it in my pouch where I keep all the bathroom essentials and stuff. Will cover it up well.

Sorted!!

Problem solving at its finest!

 

[Rocket3015]

Ducks In A Row !!

 

[jtmass]

Coach sent me the gear plan. And it looks even more scary.

I called him up and asked him when my liver enzymes are already high why has he planned orals and and AI on top of my already crashed E2.

I told him that I want to do a rebound with very minimal gear and just get my health back on. This was the conversation about 3-4 days ago. But sometime before the last competition (2-3 weeks ago) I asked him if we should blast or not. So he said, I told him that I wanted to do a blast. I mean, which coach in his senses would do this when he already has a detailed blood report of the client.

This exactly was my cycle, except for the Metribolone, about 20 weeks ago.

 

[Hyde]

Forget the 120mg of Var & Tbol per day, the 2 grams of oil per week, and nearly a vial of GH per day. That is of course a massive price & total dosage for a rebound.

This guy is recommending 2mg of Mtren per day for 6 weeks straight?! This guy is trying to put you in the fucking ground, bro.

FIRE HIM NOW!!!

And not kindly; tell him you’re going to burn his house down if he ever talks to you again. This guy wants to destroy your organs.

 

[Rocket3015]

I don't know much about cycle's but that looks crazy !!

 

[jtmass]

Forget the 120mg of Var & Tbol per day, the 2 grams of oil per week, and nearly a vial of GH per day. That is of course a massive price & total dosage for a rebound.

This guy is recommending 2mg of Mtren per day for 6 weeks straight?! This guy is trying to put you in the fucking ground, bro.

FIRE HIM NOW!!!

And not kindly; tell him you’re going to burn his house down if he ever talks to you again. This guy wants to destroy your organs.

He’s definitely gone for sure.. I asked him for the rebound gear plan because I wanted to gauge if he really gave a shyte.

The problem is, I don’t want to be rude. I had already thought about telling him that I can’t afford him and just move out. Now, looking at how irresponsible he is, I might as well give a piece of my mind before firing him.

 

[Rocket3015]

I like the nice approach...............

 

[Hyde]

I like the nice approach...............

Anyone can force temporary muscle size if they just murder you with drugs; that’s not coaching. This guy is not only recklessly endangering his health, he is robbing him of hard earned dollars without providing a real service.

 

[SkRaw85]

Holy **** that cycle just put me in dialysis from reading. This guy is not your friend. If you took all that gear you would be in jail for murder when someone looked at you wrong. Mtren is not something you take often or at any length. Especially on top off the plethora of everything else under the sun at monster doses. He might be trying to Kill you off really…..

 

[jtmass]

Anyone can force temporary muscle size if they just murder you with drugs; that’s not coaching. This guy is not only recklessly endangering his health, he is robbing him of hard earned dollars without providing a real service.

Holy **** that cycle just put me in dialysis from reading. This guy is not your friend. If you took all that gear you would be in jail for murder when someone looked at you wrong. Mtren is not something you take often or at any length. Especially on top off the plethora of everything else under the sun at monster doses. He might be trying to Kill you off really…..

Looks like he’s just pulling it out from some template he has. I spoke to him and asked why do I have to do this heavy cycle when all I am trying to do is recover from the cycle I did before. He was like, let’s then do 500mg test, 5iU of Humalog pre and post and 8iU of GH.

He had given me Mtren in a plan before (which is exactly the same gear plan he shared 20 odd weeks ago) and when I read about it’s hepatotoxic, I told him I wasn’t going to do it.

This time, When my liver values are already out of range, he adds this **** on top.

So. This is my plan and I have started to execute: Took my first shot of 50mg test and 50mg primo today. I’ll do 150mg of each per week and push my training and food..

 

[SkRaw85]

Looks like he’s just pulling it out from some template he has. I spoke to him and asked why do I have to do this heavy cycle when all I am trying to do is recover from the cycle I did before. He was like, let’s then do 500mg test, 5iU of Humalog pre and post and 8iU of GH.

He had given me Mtren in a plan before (which is exactly the same gear plan he shared 20 odd weeks ago) and when I read about it’s hepatotoxic, I told him I wasn’t going to do it.

This time, When my liver values are already out of range, he adds this **** on top.

So. This is my plan and I have started to execute: Took my first shot of 50mg test and 50mg primo today. I’ll do 150mg of each per week and push my training and food..

Wise choice. MTren is something you pin in the bathroom before hoisting maximal weights at a powerlifting meet. I’m not too keen on Mtren use in the bodybuilding world. I’m guessing a bodybuilder would use it like halotestin? To retain strength in a major caloric deficit in an extremely short duration for that grainy loom on show day? But this “coach’s” layout is obscenely harsh on all fronts, especially with the methyl tren.