Donald Trump running for president

[Jiigzz]

you can't be this retarded as to keep making the same illogical point....it isn't a living wage if they have to start paying for their housing, food and medical bills, they end up being far worse off than before-geez, man-get a clue!!!


i am for leaving things as they are, and not punishing EVERY American with higher prices!!!

The living wage covers those costs, and still ensures they have enough money to set aside.

Cmon man, being insulting isn't improving your point because you keep missing the point of what the living wage is.

 

[Jiigzz]

Absolutely not, socialism is a system of getting armed thugs backed by societal bullies to steal money from people by force and redistributing it to others...and it never ends up being about that.

What I preach is voluntarism and compassion.

And you think there are people that will do that? LOL.

All I see in this thread is an "every man for himself" attitude, and here you are believing people would turn into a hippie commune and share the love lol.

Not going to happen. Period.

 

[thebigt]

The living wage covers those costs, and still ensures they have enough money to set aside.

Cmon man, being insulting isn't improving your point because you keep missing the point of what the living wage is.

add up the additional costs of paying for housing, medical insurance and food...food is so expensive here that it alone would eat up much of the 'living wage'. housing costs are thru the roof-if on government assistance housing is pretty much paid for.

sorry for being insulting, i forget that you aren't aware of the high cost of living here in the US.

 

[ax1]

And you think there are people that will do that? LOL.

All I see in this thread is an "every man for himself" attitude, and here you are believing people would turn into a hippie commune and share the love lol.

Not going to happen. Period.

Well your better off with that even if you think so and its true.

We have the most charitable people as a society in history by the way.

 

[ax1]

add up the additional costs of paying for housing, medical insurance and food...food is so expensive here that it alone would eat up much of the 'living wage'. housing costs are thru the roof-if on government assistance housing is pretty much paid for.

sorry for being insulting, i forget that you aren't aware of the high cost of living here in the US.

Add the fact its an endless cycle of intervene more everything costs more, it never solves anything and people get the shaft up the small intestine.

Government is corrupt and incompetent, you figure after 70 years of fighting the war on poverty and trillions of dollars would have helped, but it didnt. People still fall for it and want more. The truth is govenrment wants to pin people down in shackles as they rape and pillage our country hungry in power and dependency equates to stability in government fraud.

 

[thebigt]

Well your better off with that even if you think so and its true.

We have the most charitable people as a society in history by the way.

the catholic church doesn't get nearly as much credit as it deserves for all the GOOD work it does, at least on the local level.

 

[ax1]

the catholic church doesn't get nearly as much credit as it deserves for all the GOOD work it does, at least on the local level.

They used to do alot of good work in the medical field, Ron Paul used to work in a hospital like that. Now they have been regulated mostly out of existence.

There are alot of charitable organizations, and people make the best choices with their money over corrupt government. Helping people would be far more cost efficient over monster bureaucracies that hire armed thugs to do their hits and taking the life, liberty and choice of what people want to do with their own money.

I have my own issues I want to help people with, it should be up to my where my charity goes.

 

[Jiigzz]

add up the additional costs of paying for housing, medical insurance and food...foor is so expensive here that it alone would eat up much of the 'living wage'.

sorry for being insulting, i forget that you aren't aware of the high cost of living here in the US.

Believe me, cost of living on an island with a population of 5 million is not cheap. Petrol prices are $2 per litre here for basic 91 unleaded (be around $8 per gallon).

Those costs grow independently of minimum wage regardless. A minimum wage sets up a minimum that employers should pay those who work for them. They can pay more if they choose, nothing prevents that, it simply means that people are paid enough to get by while working those jobs.

The cost of living worldwide has gone up dramatically over the last 20 years and the mandated minimum wage has not increased with it.

In a lot of peoples minds, it is far more reasonable to justify a CEO making 20 million per year being given a 1 million pay rise every year than giving 100 employees a $10,000 dollar per year more salary which simply doesn't make sense. Noone denies the CEO doesn't work hard, but trickle down economics simply doesn't work. The top half get richer while the bottom half continue to scrape through while working full time.

Some people are born into poverty, that alone means that they often do not have access to the same opportunities for education and jobs or homes. That's the poverty cycle. It is much harder to claw yourself out of poverty than people realise because you dont have the safety nets a lot of other people do.

Imagine giving those who need to start at the very bottom a further kick in the teeth because you refuse to want them to be independent of relying on the govt. We should be encouraging them to get into employment which gives them enough to pay bills and save some coin, rather than saying "if we pay them too much, they'll stop relying on the govt for support".

There will always be poverty, but those who go out and work should be allowed economic freedom to participate as a functioning member of society, not kept down by everyone else

 

[thebigt]

They used to do alot of good work in the medical field, Ron Paul used to work in a hospital like that. Now they have been regulated mostly out of existence.

There are alot of charitable organizations, and people make the best choices with their money over corrupt government. Helping people would be far more cost efficient over monster bureaucracies that hire armed thugs to do their hits and taking the life, liberty and choice of what people want to do with their own money.

I have my own issues I want to help people with, it should be up to my where my charity goes.

lol...i heard a rumor that theres a bunch of stuff going on in italy...here goes the wild part-also heard the pope might even be arrested?????

 

[ax1]

lol...i heard a rumor that theres a bunch of stuff going on in italy...here goes the wild part-also heard the pope might even be arrested?????

I briefly heard a group of Senators are trying to prop up their globalist banker NWO puppet from falling into the sewers.

Other than that I havent looked into it that much because Im busing figuring out how many miles of barbed wire are wrapped around Washington protecting the treasonous violent thugs working inside.

 

[dixonk]

there are more foreign born people living in dubai than any country on earth.

Most of the GCC countries have more foreign residents than citizens. They run on a sponsorship system and the citizens rarely work with cradle to the grace welfare system and a system that allows them to profit from foreign businesses.

 

[thebigt]

Believe me, cost of living on an island with a population of 5 million is not cheap. Petrol prices are $2 per litre here for basic 91 unleaded (be around $8 per gallon).

Those costs grow independently of minimum wage regardless. A minimum wage sets up a minimum that employers should pay those who work for them. They can pay more if they choose, nothing prevents that, it simply means that people are paid enough to get by while working those jobs.

The cost of living worldwide has gone up dramatically over the last 20 years and the mandated minimum wage has not increased with it.

In a lot of peoples minds, it is far more reasonable to justify a CEO making 20 million per year being given a 1 million pay rise every year than giving 100 employees a $10,000 dollar per year more salary which simply doesn't make sense.

Some people are born into poverty, that alone means that they often do not have access to the same opportunities for education and jobs or homes. That's the poverty cycle. It is much harder to claw yourself out of poverty than people realise because you dont have the safety nets a lot of other people do.

Imagine giving those who need to start at the very bottom a further kick in the teeth because you refuse to want them to be independent of relying on the govt. We should be encouraging them to get into employment which gives them enough to pay bills and save some coin, rather than saying "if we pay them too much, they'll stop relying on the govt for support".

There will always be poverty, but those who go out and work should be allowed economic freedom to participate as a functioning member of society, not kept down by everyone else

seriously, here in the US a livable wage without any assistance would need to be $30 a hour....since that isn't going to happen government assistance at current minimum wage is better for the poor that $15 a hour with no assistance-trust me on this!!!

 

[Jiigzz]

Stories like this are all over the place:

"Price was hiking with his friend Valerie in the Cascade mountains that loom majestically over Seattle, USA, when he had an uncomfortable revelation.

As they walked, she told him that her life was in chaos, that her landlord had put her monthly rent up by $200 and she was struggling to pay her bills.
It made Price angry. Valerie, who he had once dated, had served for 11 years in the military, doing two tours in Iraq, and was now working 50 hours a week in two jobs to make ends meet."

But poor people are just lazy drug addicts, right?

 

[Jiigzz]

lol...i heard a rumor that theres a bunch of stuff going on in italy...here goes the wild part-also heard the pope might even be arrested?????

He's not

 

[dixonk]

Thebigt is right, even my own sister refuses to make too much and only works part time because then she would lose her welfare stamps, Obobophone and other free crap like "Government Boots"....yes Government Boots.

She has absolutely no incentive to ever, I mean ever work or make more....unless its a drastic increase making more really equates to getting less, and trust me Ive been around alot of people and welfare is generational.

I remember sitting at an IHOP listening to the table in front of me talking about turning down a promotion at work because then he would lose snap benefits and not get state health. What kind of piece of sh*t human would purposely sandbag themselves to abuse the system. I wanted to report him right then and there.

 

[dixonk]

Ok, so what would happen to the people who need food stamps if the govt stopped providing them who work in jobs below the poverty line?

They would either work like everyone else or die. Either one will work.

 

[Jiigzz]

seriously, here in the US a livable wage without any assistance would need to be $30 a hour....since that isn't going to happen government assistance at current minimum wage is better for the poor that $15 a hour with no assistance-trust me on this!!!

There is no way $30 would be the living wage.

It is $22.10 here.

It is calculated at around $17 for the US.

 

[ax1]

seriously, here in the US a livable wage without any assistance would need to be $30 a hour....since that isn't going to happen government assistance at current minimum wage is better for the poor that $15 a hour with no assistance-trust me on this!!!

It will be the final end of the middl

Stories like this are all over the place:

"Price was hiking with his friend Valerie in the Cascade mountains that loom majestically over Seattle, USA, when he had an uncomfortable revelation.

As they walked, she told him that her life was in chaos, that her landlord had put her monthly rent up by $200 and she was struggling to pay her bills.
It made Price angry. Valerie, who he had once dated, had served for 11 years in the military, doing two tours in Iraq, and was now working 50 hours a week in two jobs to make ends meet."

But poor people are just lazy drug addicts, right?

You cant force business to raise their wages because someone cant afford rent anymore. Dont you think these businesses have their own rent to pay?

 

[Jiigzz]

The minimum wage does not provide a living wage for most American families. A typical family of four (two working adults, two children) needs to work nearly four full-time minimum-wage jobs (a 75-hour work week per working adult) to earn a living wage. Single-parent families need to work almost twice as hard as families with two working adults to earn the living wage. A single-mother with two children earning the federal minimum wage of $7.25 per hour needs to work 138 hours per week, nearly the equivalent of working 24 hours per day for six days, to earn a living wage.

 

[ax1]

There is no way $30 would be the living wage.

It is $22.10 here.

It is calculated at around $17 for the US.

Its too vague, even if we to go by that, if you were to support minimum wage increases it needs to be regional. The differences in cost of living can vary very dramatically.

 

[Jiigzz]

It will be the final end of the middl


You cant force business to raise their wages because someone cant afford rent anymore. Dont you think these businesses have their own rent to pay?

The guy in the story Price dropped his wage to 70,000 from 1.1 million, and mandated a 70k minimum pay at his company because of that.

Seemed to work out good for him.

The CEO doesn't pay the company bills, the company does.

 

[dixonk]

Even if you gave Americans 100 bucks an hour to flip burgers, the people with no ambition will just buy frivolous things and still not make rent and utility payment and still expect the govt to step in and help.

There should be an incentive and reward to work hard. Right now the reward is for not working at all and those that do put in the extra effort get punished and robbed at gun point to prop up the dead beats that just want to drink beer, smoke pot, and watch jerry springer.

 

[Jiigzz]

Its too vague, even if we to go by that, if you were to support minimum wage increases it needs to be regional. The differences in cost of living can vary very dramatically.

Ok sure.

No issue with that

 

[ax1]

The guy in the story Price dropped his wage to 70,000 from 1.1 million, and mandated a 70k minimum pay at his company because of that.

Seemed to work out good for him.

The CEO doesn't pay the company bills, the company does.

The CEO gets the company paid, assuming they do a good job.

 

[Jiigzz]

The CEO gets the company paid, assuming they do a good job.

So do the front line staff. McDonald's wouldn't make any money without anyone to flip a burger.

The pay doesn't need to be equitable between the CEO and front line, but let's not pretend the company could exist without burger flippers.

 

[dixonk]

So do the front line staff. McDonald's wouldn't make any money without anyone to flip a burger.

Last time I was at a McDonald’s they didn’t even have a cashier. I had to order at a kiosk. Soon enough they will find a way to make money without all the whiny teenagers bitching about their pay.

 

[ax1]

So do the front line staff. McDonald's wouldn't make any money without anyone to flip a burger.

Ok, lets just shut down all the McDonalds and see what these burger flippers do next.

 

[ax1]

Last time I was at a McDonald’s they didn’t even have a cashier. I had to order at a kiosk. Soon enough they will find a way to make money without all the whiny teenagers bitching about their pay.

They are working on all kitchen automation including robotic burger flippers, its true.

 

[dixonk]

Ok, lets just shut down all the McDonalds and see what these burger flippers do next.

For starters they would stop being complicit in America’s rising obesity rate...

 

[Jiigzz]

Last time I was at a McDonald’s they didn’t even have a cashier. I had to order at a kiosk. Soon enough they will find a way to make money without all the whiny teenagers bitching about their pay.

Not just teenagers who work there.

Any job has the potential to be automated, even the higher skilled ones.

 

[ax1]

The minimum wage does not provide a living wage for most American families. A typical family of four (two working adults, two children) needs to work nearly four full-time minimum-wage jobs (a 75-hour work week per working adult) to earn a living wage. Single-parent families need to work almost twice as hard as families with two working adults to earn the living wage. A single-mother with two children earning the federal minimum wage of $7.25 per hour needs to work 138 hours per week, nearly the equivalent of working 24 hours per day for six days, to earn a living wage.

What do people want? They want to provide for themselves, eat and shyt with a roof over their head. Ok.

There is a way. I propose giving them a plot of land and having the Amish show them how to live a good life. People want everything for nothing, its really sickening.

Invalid Link Removed

 

[Jiigzz]

Ok, lets just shut down all the McDonalds and see what these burger flippers do next.

The same as what every other person who lost their job would do, find another.

 

[Jiigzz]

What do people want? They want to provide for themselves, eat and shyt with a roof over their head. Ok.

There is a way. I propose giving them a plot of land and having the Amish show them how to live a good life. People want everything for nothing, its really sickening.

Invalid Link Removed

What kind of erroneous argument is this?

Where would you get the land from and how would you afford it?

 

[dixonk]

Not just teenagers who work there.

Any job has the potential to be automated, even the higher skilled ones.

If you are an adult and you are relying on McDonald’s to provide...you should probably re-examine your life choices. I am still trying to find a single establishment here in OkC that doesn’t have a now hiring sign up.

 

[ax1]

The same as what every other person who lost their job would do, find another.

You are talking 205,000 employees, and thats usa alone...all created under a Capitalist system that allowed McDonalds to expand globally and create jobs than nobody is forced to work at.

You do know big monster businesses fall right? Are you away how many companies have gone bankrupt and out of business here in the USA as of late, and not just because of Covid-1984, some that have been around for 100-150 years, all gone. Being a big business doesnt mean you owe anybody anything.

 

[Jiigzz]

Amish live below the poverty line, but do well because they live in a community that shares and barters.

They wouldn't be able to afford anything in a big city and already have a tonne of expensive land to rely on for support.

Comparing an every day person to an Amish is just erroneous and a deflection from the wider issue.

 

[ax1]

What kind of erroneous argument is this?

Where would you get the land from and how would you afford it?

It would cost the fraction of the cost of food stamps and welfare.

Heck, if 500,000 people chipped in $20.00 measly bucks they would have a good start to start building their infrastructure.

 

[Jiigzz]

You are talking 205,000 employees, and thats usa alone...all created under a Capitalist system that allowed McDonalds to expand globally and create jobs than nobody is forced to work at.

You do know big monster businesses fall right? Are you away how many companies have gone bankrupt and out of business here in the USA as of late, and not just because of Covid-1984, some that have been around for 100-150 years, all gone. Being a big business doesnt mean you owe anybody anything.

What does this have to do with what I was talking about?

Where does minimum wage come into this argument?

 

[ax1]

Amish live below the poverty line, but do well because they live in a community that shares and barters.

They wouldn't be able to afford anything in a big city and already have a tonne of expensive land to rely on for support.

Comparing an every day person to an Amish is just erroneous and a deflection from the wider issue.

Well, if you cant afford a big city leave the big city. I dont live there, thank goodness, its expensive.

Its not a deflection at all, Im pointing out the poison of people's minds. There are solutions to problems and living a good quality of life.

Amish are very responsible people, they rarely take out credit and when they do go to the bank the banks are exited to lend them money because they ALWAYS pay it back. And they have alot of skills and make their own goods they sell in a a free market, they always have food, a home, a peaceful way of life.

If your life sucks there are other options, and its not options I invented, they are options real people have taken.

 

[Jiigzz]

It would cost the fraction of the cost of food stamps and welfare.

Heck, if 500,000 people chipped in $20.00 measly bucks they would have a good start to start building their infrastructure.

Is there land large enough, with good soil to support 500,000 people?

How is 10 million dollars of land supposed to support half a million people?!

 

[ax1]

What does this have to do with what I was talking about?

Where does minimum wage come into this argument?

Minimum wage laws are partly responsible for destroying millions of jobs.

 

[ax1]

Is there land large enough, with good soil to support 500,000 people?

How is 10 million dollars of land supposed to support half a million people?!

We have alot of land, alot of timber, alot of resources that cost the fraction of the cost than welfare.

Those 500,000 people will never get ahead if they dont look for other options in life. They will die poor, even with minumum wage increases.

 

[Jiigzz]

Well, if you cant afford a big city leave the big city. I dont live there, thank goodness, its expensive.

Its not a deflection at all, Im pointing out the poison of people's minds. There are solutions to problems and living a good quality of life.

Amish are very responsible people, they rarely take out credit and when they do go to the bank the banks are exited to lend them money because they ALWAYS pay it back. And they have alot of skills and make their own goods they sell in a a free market, they always have food, a home, a peaceful way of life.

If your life sucks there are other options, and its not options I invented, they are options real people have taken.

You can't just join an Amish community or easily make your own like you are implying here lol.

It's not like every poor person can just say "well I guess ill be Amish now".

 

[Jiigzz]

Minimum wage laws are partly responsible for destroying millions of jobs.

Can you back this up with evidence?

 

[ax1]

You can't just join an Amish community or easily make your own like you are implying here lol.

It's not like every poor person can just say "well I guess ill be Amish now".

You model after it. Id bet there are more than a handful of Amish willing to share their wisdom.

We have programs here in NY called "Habitat for Humanity" where people volunteer to help poor communities rebuild. There are common sense solutions to our problems and I have more optimism about American people if their life and liberties are protected to contribute more to society.

 

[Jiigzz]

We have alot of land, alot of timber, alot of resources that cost the fraction of the cost than welfare.

Those 500,000 people will never get ahead if they dont look for other options in life. They will die poor, even with minumum wage increases.

How can 10 million dollars support 500,000 people?

You can't just grow crops anywhere you please. Soil, temperature, climate etc are all important factors. Those lands are not cheap

 

[ax1]

How can 10 million dollars support 500,000 people?

You can't just grow crops anywhere you please. Soil, temperature, climate etc are all important factors. Those lands are not cheap

Annual cost of welfare is over a trillion dollars and people still live in shyt. And you think we cant build communities where people can prosper? LMFAO, all barking from people, never solutions. Just bully and steal, bully and steal, bully and steal. Hands thrown.

 

[HIT4ME]

Ah yes, video footage representing nothing more than baseless claims

That isn't evidence

You do realise that Trumps tax plan wanted to increase taxes from this year onward, right?

So? It's OK because Trump did it too? Most of the conservatives in here have come out strongly against ANY taxes. The difference between Trump and Biden is that Trump put it in a tax bill and called it what it is. Biden is calling it, "Increased minimum wage". Just like Obama called it, "Healthcare". Gee, thank good these guys are saving us all by mandating what someone should pay for and how much they should pay for it.

Trump did a lot of things that I like - he could have done much better on the taxes. But, as you like to say, this is pure deflection because Biden is obviously a corrupt, lying, scumbag and there is no defense but to talk about someone else's flaws.

No kidding. Did you read the post I quoted?

Because everyone got mad at Biden for wanting to raise taxes for people earning over 400k, but noone got mad at Trump for planning to raise taxes to above what they were before he got in office lol.

Where's the sense in that?

Oh yeah, and, "It's only for people who are 1-percenters" - that's how taxes always get spread to the poor. They vote for the rich to start paying their share, they do for a bit, the gov't expands spending, the rich figure out how to use loopholes, income falls, the gov't expands taxes to the middle class, etc.

Isn't people helping others socialism?

Who are these 'many people' who are willing to throw money at less fortunate people?

Capitalism is people helping others too. In capitalism, you just help each other instead of doing it for no equity. Through this prism alone, I would much rather be a capitalist than a socialist.

Believe me, cost of living on an island with a population of 5 million is not cheap. Petrol prices are $2 per litre here for basic 91 unleaded (be around $8 per gallon).

Those costs grow independently of minimum wage regardless. A minimum wage sets up a minimum that employers should pay those who work for them. They can pay more if they choose, nothing prevents that, it simply means that people are paid enough to get by while working those jobs.

The cost of living worldwide has gone up dramatically over the last 20 years and the mandated minimum wage has not increased with it.

In a lot of peoples minds, it is far more reasonable to justify a CEO making 20 million per year being given a 1 million pay rise every year than giving 100 employees a $10,000 dollar per year more salary which simply doesn't make sense. Noone denies the CEO doesn't work hard, but trickle down economics simply doesn't work. The top half get richer while the bottom half continue to scrape through while working full time.

Some people are born into poverty, that alone means that they often do not have access to the same opportunities for education and jobs or homes. That's the poverty cycle. It is much harder to claw yourself out of poverty than people realise because you dont have the safety nets a lot of other people do.

Imagine giving those who need to start at the very bottom a further kick in the teeth because you refuse to want them to be independent of relying on the govt. We should be encouraging them to get into employment which gives them enough to pay bills and save some coin, rather than saying "if we pay them too much, they'll stop relying on the govt for support".

There will always be poverty, but those who go out and work should be allowed economic freedom to participate as a functioning member of society, not kept down by everyone else

Geez, that's some expensive gas. I agree with the fact that some people have a harder road than others - I am aware of that. I also agree we need to try to help improve the situation where we can. I just disagree with the "how we do that" part.

There is no way $30 would be the living wage.

It is $22.10 here.

It is calculated at around $17 for the US.

I guess it depends on what you mean by "living wage" - can someone survive on $17/hour ($34,000/year) - sure. And that person can work 60 hour workweeks maybe and make $51,000/year. Still not a high standard of living but yeah, it would be better for a lot of people. Unfortunately, that money has to come from production or the money is worthless.

 

[Jiigzz]

If you are an adult and you are relying on McDonald’s to provide...you should probably re-examine your life choices. I am still trying to find a single establishment here in OkC that doesn’t have a now hiring sign up.

Not everyone has access to the same opportunities, and that's the point.

The answer can't be just "make better choices" when your options are to either starve or work at McDonald's. That is the better choice.

 

[Jiigzz]

You model after it. Id bet there are more than a handful of Amish willing to share their wisdom.

We have programs here in NY called "Habitat for Humanity" where people volunteer to help poor communities rebuild. There are common sense solutions to our problems and I have more optimism about American people if their life and liberties are protected to contribute more to society.

That's very optimistic given Capitalism doesn't reward giving stuff away.

You would be relying on people being good, but the majority simply aren't this selfless.

I make a good wage despite paying tax and I'm not giving any of it to the poor. I donate to charity, but not of that type.

People can still help now but choose not to. Why would I expect any different?