Donald Trump running for president

[ax1]

there is a lot i agree with in this post....division and chaos is the direction the government is, and has been heading...this is why when biden says he is about healing and uniting i call bullshyt.

it's not that i don't want unity and healing, it's that when the government[both parties]say they want unity and healing i truly believe they are lying.

Fuq Groper Joe, unity my azz. Unity from me starts when he gets arrested.

 

[thebigt]

Hahaha...thats whats funny. I have a pretty decent tolerance to alcohol, but I guess phenibut hit something different in my brain...

go lightly with the somatomax, phenibut tolerance comes quickly....go with the smallest amount that gives desired effect-maybe even try 1/4 scoop next time.....as a recovering alkie i have to watch my phenibut use closely, when my usual dose stops having the effect i am expecting i know it's time to give it a break.

 

[thebigt]

Fuq Groper Joe, unity my azz. Unity from me starts when he gets arrested.

won't happen, for trump either....hillary showed that top government people are untouchable.


although they might make a big show of going after trump like they did hillary i highly doubt a actual arrest will happen.

 

[ax1]

won't happen, for trump either....hillary showed that top government people are untouchable.


although they might make a big show of going after trump like they did hillary i highly doubt a actual arrest will happen.

Hitlery of course is a deep state untouchable. I doubt Dump would get arrested, but I never figured out for sure if he is certainly in the "in" and just playing everybody or not. I think he is, but not sure.

Groper Joe is more deep state that Hitlery is, justice will never be seen for all the humanitarian crimes, corruption and theft of the American people. What I know is, if religous people are correct, Groper will spend eternal hell.

 

[thebigt]

Hitlery of course is a deep state untouchable. I doubt Dump would get arrested, but I never figured out for sure if he is certainly in the "in" and just playing everybody or not. I think he is, but not sure.

Groper Joe is more deep state that Hitlery is, justice will never be seen for all the humanitarian crimes, corruption and theft of the American people. What I know is, if religous people are correct, Groper will spend eternal hell.

sometimes i can't see the forrest for the trees, i am slowly seeing that you have been right all along....the difference between todays youth movement and the youth movement of my generation [60s-70s] is that the government has learned from their mistakes. back then the youth movement was united against the government and was able to stop the vietnam war, a truly remarkable accomplishment....today the government has the people divided along political lines, if one side does something the other side is automatically against it-this plays right into the governments hands...

i remember a saying from back in the day---united we stand, divided we fall.

it is truly in the government interest to make sure the people stay divided. when any politician says they want unity and healing they are full of shyt!!!

 

[kenic03]

sometimes i can't see the forrest for the trees, i am slowly seeing that you have been right all along....the difference between todays youth movement and the youth movement of my generation [60s-70s] is that the government has learned from their mistakes. back then the youth movement was united against the government and was able to stop the vietnam war, a truly remarkable accomplishment....today the government has the people divided along political lines, if one side does something the other side is automatically against it-this plays right into the governments hands...

i remember a saying from back in the day---united we stand, divided we fall.

it is truly in the government interest to make sure the people stay divided. when any politician says they want unity and healing they are full of shyt!!!

@thebigt this whole time you thought I was coming at you and attacking you because you supported Trump but the truth was I wanted to know why? All government work in this manner. Divide and conquer. It’s been going on since the beginning of time. There can never be unity. There can only be power and power always destroys itself for more power.

 

[HIT4ME]

The prosecution only has to prove beyond a reasonable doubt, because the likelihood of knowing 100% is next to nil.

There are a lot of humans out there that drink alcohol on a daily basis that can sustain blood alcohol values that would incapacitate an elephant and still function. Values mean very little without context, which is whether or not George was capable of functioning with levels of drugs in his system that may or may not cause cardiac arrest in non-adjusted people.

The cause of death has been listed as not being due to levels of drugs in his system, however the counties and an independent autopsy differ in whether George died due to heart failure or asphyxiation. Both still list the pressure exerted on the neck as causes which is important.

I think this warrants some discussion and it's not an easy answer, but the "beyond reasonable doubt" thing is why I say you can't blame the officer for murder. There IS reasonable doubt that Floyd would have survived if he had sufficient levels of opioids in his system to kill him anyway. Yes, someone who is opioid naive will have a more likely chance of dying from the typically "sufficient" dose but Floyd had 11 ng/dl when we have certified deaths at 3 ng/dl. This could have left him dead on a couch under normal circumstances without question. They also have claimed he had underlying health conditions as well.

The video clearly shows him resisting even while cuffed, and complaining about not being able to breath even while no one was doing anything beyond holding his arm.

If someone shoots you and while you're bleeding to death I punch you, I'm not responsible for murder unless they can prove the punch killed you and not the bullet/bleeding out. Am I still an azzhat for punching you? Yes. Should I still be charged? Sure - but not for murder.

Both autopsies are fairly similar.

The Baker Autopsy he said, concluded the death was a homicide by "law enforcement subdual, restraint, and neck compression."

However, he also said this in his autopsy: "If he were found dead at home alone and no other apparent causes, this could be acceptable to call an OD. Deaths have been certified with levels of 3....That is a fatal level of fentanyl under normal circumstances."

3 is refering to ng/dl and he found Floyd to have had 11. This is why we have courts, the guy doing the autopsy can have an opinion, but he doesn't get to be judge and jury - and the people who reviewed the actual evidence obviously declined bringing charges because there wasn't sufficient evidence of homicide or murder to bring charges to the officer.

Maybe he should be brought up on some other charges for the knee across the neck...not sure...it seems harsh for a cuffed person. Once you have someone cuffed, they are in your protection and if you can't control them, you should enlist the help of fellow officers if they are available I think....

I just don't know 100% beyond a reasonable doubt it was homicide/murder and I don't like the way it is portrayed in the media and how everyone just eats it up without critical thought....not saying you. There's no easy answer after someone is dead.

Yes, but I have to say it is rather interesting that the officers on the side of the door with Ashli and the other protestors moved aside, almost provoking her to proceed in her efforts to make her way through the window to be shot by officers on the other side.

I’m not really sure what to make of that as I am half asleep and am on my way out

What I find interesting is that only one officer fired his weapon period. Look at all the times people say, "Why did they have to shoot him so many times!?" Why? Because there were 5 officers there and they all determined the dead person was a threat and they all fired at once, and they all continued to fire until the threat was eliminated. They didn't draw straws and decide an order to shoot in or wait to see if one bullet worked, or 2, or 3, or 10. But they all made the same instantaneous decision which says A LOT.

In this case, one guy made the decision while everyone else made a different decision. I think this makes the situation somewhat questionable, but I'm still chalking it up as fair and while it may be a mistake, still justified.

You left out the amount of fentanyl. Please understand something. I do not think that the officer putting his knee across Floyd’s neck was justified in anyway. It wasn’t. But I’m telling you the amount of fentanyl in his body is what killed him. He was complaining about not being able to breathe before he was ever placed on the ground.

He was also fighting being put in the car, etc. at the same time. This is typical of opioid overdoses - they start to fight even when they cannot. My grandmother couldn't get up and walk for the last 5 years of her life, but while on the higher levels of fentanyl she would get angry and insist she could walk and try to get out of her chair, etc. As much as she could be sleeping at one moment, she'd be up fighting the next.

When my dad had surgery a while back they hit him up good with the Fentanyl and he did the same thing when he got out of surgery - after having had a stroke and not being able to use half his body and now just coming out of stomach surgery where he almost died from blood loss he was suddenly fighting to get out of bed.

In my experiences, both situations were easy enough to manage because both people were fairly immobile to begin with.

Opioids slow respiratory rate, they dont obstruct your airway. If someone is not breathing from respiratory depression due to high levels of exogenous opioids they just stop breathing or have a low respiratory rate (< 12 / min). It isn’t like “oh man, i feel like I cant breathe, I should probably make the conscious decision to breathe faster”. You dont just walk around saying you cant breathe simply because you’re high on opioids. Now, opioids can lead to aspiration from inhibition of the gag reflex which would then lead to the feeling of not being able to breathe, but if you cant breathe specifically from opioids you aint sitting there talking about how you cant breathe.

I agree they don't obstruct your airway, but they will slow and stop breathing and thus stop your heart. You will feel like you can't breath, but you won't have the control to increase your breathing rate if I'm not mistaken. And in the video Floyd is NOT having a normal conversation with the officers. He's mumbling and murmering but you can make him out saying he cannot breath.

And while he was mumbling like this, he was pushing with his legs, and struggling. Now, maybe the cops misinterpreted these and should have realized he was OD'ing and taken a different action, but if he won't calm down I can't blame them for misinterpreting. And of course, if he can't breath why would he calm down? He'd be scared as Fuark.

This is true, however if his respiratory rate was that depressed he wouldnt be conversant.

Could the knee across the side of the neck reduce blood flow to the brain via compression of the carotid artery? What if he had carotid stenosis on the other side and then the knee across the neck cut off the side his brain relied on to carry the load? A knee across the side of the neck could absolutely effect oxygen flow, low blood flow = no oxygen delivery.

He did have some underlying health conditions and apparently one of his arteries was 75% blocked. I am not defending the knee because it was dangerous regardless and COULD have caused death. I just think that the situation as a whole has too many complicating factors to be able to say specifically that the knee DID cause the death. I think there could be some reasonable doubt that he would have survived regardless. And another level to this tragedy is that, if someone knew he was ODing, perhaps the cops could have hit him up with some nolaxone instead and saved his life. But again, heat of the moment vs. hindsight.

Thats actually a great thought there. Meth was probably more at play if he was having a panic attack, as opioids have pretty strong anxiolytic properties.

You could be right on the panic part. He seemed pretty damned panicked from the audio i heard.

I think if I couldn't breath right, it would cause me to panic. Especially if I was trying to tell officers arresting me I was having a medical issue. And it could have been the mix of meth and fentanyl, etc.

Again, I don't know. The officer screwed up. Was it murder? I'm just not sure and it's hard to say because people get worked up over the media hype around it all and won't look at it based on the merits. I think there are multiple potential causes of death here and there is reasonable doubt. Does that make the officer 100% innocent? No.

 

[thebigt]

@thebigt this whole time you thought I was coming at you and attacking you because you supported Trump but the truth was I wanted to know why? All government work in this manner. Divide and conquer. It’s been going on since the beginning of time. There can never be unity. There can only be power and power always destroys itself for more power.

you didn't know me and i didn't know you, but now we know each other a little better and things can be more civil.

actually i was a hippie back in the days before i joined the military, and was very liberal-i even voted for jimmy carter when i turned 18....i am much farther to the left than most trump supporters, the biggest reason i supported trump was his stand on immigration-hillary and democrats were proposing open borders and i am very much for having a strong border and am in favor of putting American citizens 1st.

i grew up next to the largest project in indianapolis in a mostly black neighborhood, i even went to several civil rights marches back in the day--those marches WERE peaceful and accomplished a lot for rights of blacks. there actually was a lot of racism back in those days---comparing those days to today-blacks have come a long way.

 

[thebigt]

I think this warrants some discussion and it's not an easy answer, but the "beyond reasonable doubt" thing is why I say you can't blame the officer for murder. There IS reasonable doubt that Floyd would have survived if he had sufficient levels of opioids in his system to kill him anyway. Yes, someone who is opioid naive will have a more likely chance of dying from the typically "sufficient" dose but Floyd had 11 ng/dl when we have certified deaths at 3 ng/dl. This could have left him dead on a couch under normal circumstances without question. They also have claimed he had underlying health conditions as well.

The video clearly shows him resisting even while cuffed, and complaining about not being able to breath even while no one was doing anything beyond holding his arm.

If someone shoots you and while you're bleeding to death I punch you, I'm not responsible for murder unless they can prove the punch killed you and not the bullet/bleeding out. Am I still an azzhat for punching you? Yes. Should I still be charged? Sure - but not for murder.

Both autopsies are fairly similar.

The Baker Autopsy he said, concluded the death was a homicide by "law enforcement subdual, restraint, and neck compression."

However, he also said this in his autopsy: "If he were found dead at home alone and no other apparent causes, this could be acceptable to call an OD. Deaths have been certified with levels of 3....That is a fatal level of fentanyl under normal circumstances."

3 is refering to ng/dl and he found Floyd to have had 11. This is why we have courts, the guy doing the autopsy can have an opinion, but he doesn't get to be judge and jury - and the people who reviewed the actual evidence obviously declined bringing charges because there wasn't sufficient evidence of homicide or murder to bring charges to the officer.

Maybe he should be brought up on some other charges for the knee across the neck...not sure...it seems harsh for a cuffed person. Once you have someone cuffed, they are in your protection and if you can't control them, you should enlist the help of fellow officers if they are available I think....

I just don't know 100% beyond a reasonable doubt it was homicide/murder and I don't like the way it is portrayed in the media and how everyone just eats it up without critical thought....not saying you. There's no easy answer after someone is dead.



What I find interesting is that only one officer fired his weapon period. Look at all the times people say, "Why did they have to shoot him so many times!?" Why? Because there were 5 officers there and they all determined the dead person was a threat and they all fired at once, and they all continued to fire until the threat was eliminated. They didn't draw straws and decide an order to shoot in or wait to see if one bullet worked, or 2, or 3, or 10. But they all made the same instantaneous decision which says A LOT.

In this case, one guy made the decision while everyone else made a different decision. I think this makes the situation somewhat questionable, but I'm still chalking it up as fair and while it may be a mistake, still justified.



He was also fighting being put in the car, etc. at the same time. This is typical of opioid overdoses - they start to fight even when they cannot. My grandmother couldn't get up and walk for the last 5 years of her life, but while on the higher levels of fentanyl she would get angry and insist she could walk and try to get out of her chair, etc. As much as she could be sleeping at one moment, she'd be up fighting the next.

When my dad had surgery a while back they hit him up good with the Fentanyl and he did the same thing when he got out of surgery - after having had a stroke and not being able to use half his body and now just coming out of stomach surgery where he almost died from blood loss he was suddenly fighting to get out of bed.

In my experiences, both situations were easy enough to manage because both people were fairly immobile to begin with.



I agree they don't obstruct your airway, but they will slow and stop breathing and thus stop your heart. You will feel like you can't breath, but you won't have the control to increase your breathing rate if I'm not mistaken. And in the video Floyd is NOT having a normal conversation with the officers. He's mumbling and murmering but you can make him out saying he cannot breath.

And while he was mumbling like this, he was pushing with his legs, and struggling. Now, maybe the cops misinterpreted these and should have realized he was OD'ing and taken a different action, but if he won't calm down I can't blame them for misinterpreting. And of course, if he can't breath why would he calm down? He'd be scared as Fuark.



He did have some underlying health conditions and apparently one of his arteries was 75% blocked. I am not defending the knee because it was dangerous regardless and COULD have caused death. I just think that the situation as a whole has too many complicating factors to be able to say specifically that the knee DID cause the death. I think there could be some reasonable doubt that he would have survived regardless. And another level to this tragedy is that, if someone knew he was ODing, perhaps the cops could have hit him up with some nolaxone instead and saved his life. But again, heat of the moment vs. hindsight.



I think if I couldn't breath right, it would cause me to panic. Especially if I was trying to tell officers arresting me I was having a medical issue. And it could have been the mix of meth and fentanyl, etc.

Again, I don't know. The officer screwed up. Was it murder? I'm just not sure and it's hard to say because people get worked up over the media hype around it all and won't look at it based on the merits. I think there are multiple potential causes of death here and there is reasonable doubt. Does that make the officer 100% innocent? No.

i agree...i might have more posts than you but there is a very good chance you have me beat on most words

 

[ax1]

@HIT4ME

Once the person was shot the bombardment stopped quickly after that. There was no need to continue shooting. If you pay attention down the hallway they were all prepared for a bloodbath if they had to.

 

[ax1]

Let’s just say that was the shot that saved a lot of other lives.

 

[thebigt]

btw-got up early this morning and it was 29%, 27 is my cut off point for going for a run outdoors. so i drank down a scoop of c4 ultimate and put in my newly acquired cd kiss alive the og-brought the 2nd cd with me and off i went...put in around 1 1/2 hours, but have no idea how much ground i covered....there is nothing better for clearing the mind than a good run in brisk weather!!!!

 

[HIT4ME]

@HIT4ME

Once the person was shot the bombardment stopped quickly after that. There was no need to continue shooting. If you pay attention down the hallway they were all prepared for a bloodbath if they had to.

So that one officer drew the long straw and got to shoot first? The fact that others were ready and did not fire only solidifies my case - they made a choice that it was not necessary to fire at that moment.

From the video I saw, it looks like they barricaded the doors and had only succeeded in breaking the glass before the single officer opened fire. Three officers standing between the crowd and the door remained unharmed and actually stepped out of the way before they started really going to town on the doors.

I get he was probably scared, and I would likely do the same thing in some similar circumstances - but everyone else had evacuated and gotten away, and your people down the hall ready for a bloodbath supports that. Even they retreated to safety rather than stand their ground and risk escalation.

If there was an imminent threat, the officers wouldn't have waited to see if one shot was all it took to stop the threat. They would have been sure it was gone before they stopped to see if they needed another shot.

 

[thebigt]

in a weird turn of events liberals come to defense of mike pence after 'hang mike pence' trends on twiiter.

 

[thebigt]

twitter bans trump but ayatollah, farrakhan still posting.

in my opinion farrakhan is the biggest racist, hater in the US today- 'jews are termites who need to be exterminated'...

 

[thebigt]

tomorrows lineup will include michael jackson, prince, madonna, fleetwood mac and return to innocence by enigma....kinda feeling like music with some groove for hitting the weights tomorrow.

 

[ax1]

So that one officer drew the long straw and got to shoot first? The fact that others were ready and did not fire only solidifies my case - they made a choice that it was not necessary to fire at that moment.

From the video I saw, it looks like they barricaded the doors and had only succeeded in breaking the glass before the single officer opened fire. Three officers standing between the crowd and the door remained unharmed and actually stepped out of the way before they started really going to town on the doors.

I get he was probably scared, and I would likely do the same thing in some similar circumstances - but everyone else had evacuated and gotten away, and your people down the hall ready for a bloodbath supports that. Even they retreated to safety rather than stand their ground and risk escalation.

If there was an imminent threat, the officers wouldn't have waited to see if one shot was all it took to stop the threat. They would have been sure it was gone before they stopped to see if they needed another shot.

There could have been alot of information (computers/files) that were of national security. The buck stopped there and they had no intention of retreating that area. Protect at all costs.

 

[thebigt]

There could have been alot of information (computers/files) that were of national security. The buck stopped there and they had no intention of retreating that area. Protect at all costs.

big difference between looting a target and the capital-eh?

 

[ax1]

big difference between looting a target and the capital-eh?

What I found entertaining was when the Dump protestor yelled at the police something like this "When the country treated you like shyt, we were the ones standing up for you" you can tell those officers totally felt that, then shortly after they left.

 

[HIT4ME]

There could have been alot of information (computers/files) that were of national security. The buck stopped there and they had no intention of retreating that area. Protect at all costs.

With 1 round?

 

[ax1]

big difference between looting a target and the capital-eh?

There is also a big difference between looting the capital and sending a missile into the pentagon to cover up the missing 2.3 trillion in defense spending.

 

[ax1]

With 1 round?

Yes, of course. They made a decision that nobody was going into that hallway. One person started making her way through the window and 1 round stopped it. She dropped right away. There was nothing else they needed to do.....the protestors gave up, and plus swat showed up and helped control that side.

 

[HIT4ME]

But back to the point, if that was the decision made and all the officers were on board, and protect at all costs, why did only one fire then? Why wasn't she hit 3-4 times or more? How is 1 round, "all costs"?

Further, the video I see clearly shows the officer using poor trigger discipline prior to the shooting, but hey...whatever. Maybe he wasn't quite sure what a threat was and was second guessing himself even. Good thing, because he almost pulled the trigger 3-4 times.

Plus, from the looks of the video, she wasn't even the one getting through, she was standing near the guys doing the breaking...unless there is a more clear angle than what I've seen.

I'm not saying you're even wrong or that the officer was "wrong". I get why he shot, it was a tough call. I'm not sure the other officers were in agreement with him though, since, you know, none of them fired. And, actually, they weren't even really to be seen in the video while he stayed up by the doors, so he was the only one that didn't retreat. Maybe they figured he was the fastest runner? If they planned on lighting up that hallway, I doubt they would have left one of their own behind to be in the crossfire. I mean, this is supposed to be heavily secure, I would think the guys have some level of training to plan for that.

 

[thebigt]

What I found entertaining was when the Dump protestor yelled at the police something like this "When the country treated you like shyt, we were the ones standing up for you" you can tell those officers totally felt that, then shortly after they left.

i think the government is concerned that if they pass nonsense laws the police won't enforce them...look what happened in virginia with those gun laws.

clyde lewis said on ground zero that obama made a agreement with canada to use their military to squash civil uprising in the US if needed.

 

[sammpedd88]

I think this warrants some discussion and it's not an easy answer, but the "beyond reasonable doubt" thing is why I say you can't blame the officer for murder. There IS reasonable doubt that Floyd would have survived if he had sufficient levels of opioids in his system to kill him anyway. Yes, someone who is opioid naive will have a more likely chance of dying from the typically "sufficient" dose but Floyd had 11 ng/dl when we have certified deaths at 3 ng/dl. This could have left him dead on a couch under normal circumstances without question. They also have claimed he had underlying health conditions as well.

The video clearly shows him resisting even while cuffed, and complaining about not being able to breath even while no one was doing anything beyond holding his arm.

If someone shoots you and while you're bleeding to death I punch you, I'm not responsible for murder unless they can prove the punch killed you and not the bullet/bleeding out. Am I still an azzhat for punching you? Yes. Should I still be charged? Sure - but not for murder.

Both autopsies are fairly similar.

The Baker Autopsy he said, concluded the death was a homicide by "law enforcement subdual, restraint, and neck compression."

However, he also said this in his autopsy: "If he were found dead at home alone and no other apparent causes, this could be acceptable to call an OD. Deaths have been certified with levels of 3....That is a fatal level of fentanyl under normal circumstances."

3 is refering to ng/dl and he found Floyd to have had 11. This is why we have courts, the guy doing the autopsy can have an opinion, but he doesn't get to be judge and jury - and the people who reviewed the actual evidence obviously declined bringing charges because there wasn't sufficient evidence of homicide or murder to bring charges to the officer.

Maybe he should be brought up on some other charges for the knee across the neck...not sure...it seems harsh for a cuffed person. Once you have someone cuffed, they are in your protection and if you can't control them, you should enlist the help of fellow officers if they are available I think....

I just don't know 100% beyond a reasonable doubt it was homicide/murder and I don't like the way it is portrayed in the media and how everyone just eats it up without critical thought....not saying you. There's no easy answer after someone is dead.



What I find interesting is that only one officer fired his weapon period. Look at all the times people say, "Why did they have to shoot him so many times!?" Why? Because there were 5 officers there and they all determined the dead person was a threat and they all fired at once, and they all continued to fire until the threat was eliminated. They didn't draw straws and decide an order to shoot in or wait to see if one bullet worked, or 2, or 3, or 10. But they all made the same instantaneous decision which says A LOT.

In this case, one guy made the decision while everyone else made a different decision. I think this makes the situation somewhat questionable, but I'm still chalking it up as fair and while it may be a mistake, still justified.



He was also fighting being put in the car, etc. at the same time. This is typical of opioid overdoses - they start to fight even when they cannot. My grandmother couldn't get up and walk for the last 5 years of her life, but while on the higher levels of fentanyl she would get angry and insist she could walk and try to get out of her chair, etc. As much as she could be sleeping at one moment, she'd be up fighting the next.

When my dad had surgery a while back they hit him up good with the Fentanyl and he did the same thing when he got out of surgery - after having had a stroke and not being able to use half his body and now just coming out of stomach surgery where he almost died from blood loss he was suddenly fighting to get out of bed.

In my experiences, both situations were easy enough to manage because both people were fairly immobile to begin with.



I agree they don't obstruct your airway, but they will slow and stop breathing and thus stop your heart. You will feel like you can't breath, but you won't have the control to increase your breathing rate if I'm not mistaken. And in the video Floyd is NOT having a normal conversation with the officers. He's mumbling and murmering but you can make him out saying he cannot breath.

And while he was mumbling like this, he was pushing with his legs, and struggling. Now, maybe the cops misinterpreted these and should have realized he was OD'ing and taken a different action, but if he won't calm down I can't blame them for misinterpreting. And of course, if he can't breath why would he calm down? He'd be scared as Fuark.



He did have some underlying health conditions and apparently one of his arteries was 75% blocked. I am not defending the knee because it was dangerous regardless and COULD have caused death. I just think that the situation as a whole has too many complicating factors to be able to say specifically that the knee DID cause the death. I think there could be some reasonable doubt that he would have survived regardless. And another level to this tragedy is that, if someone knew he was ODing, perhaps the cops could have hit him up with some nolaxone instead and saved his life. But again, heat of the moment vs. hindsight.



I think if I couldn't breath right, it would cause me to panic. Especially if I was trying to tell officers arresting me I was having a medical issue. And it could have been the mix of meth and fentanyl, etc.

Again, I don't know. The officer screwed up. Was it murder? I'm just not sure and it's hard to say because people get worked up over the media hype around it all and won't look at it based on the merits. I think there are multiple potential causes of death here and there is reasonable doubt. Does that make the officer 100% innocent? No.

Excited delirium is what you’re looking for. It’s been around since the late 1800’s, first called Belle’s Mania. Some doctors think excited delirium is a fallacy. If law enforcement acted on it like the medical professionals that study it say, the officers would be erring on the side of caution. Proper training is to treat it as a medical emergency. In the Floyd incident it wasn’t handled properly. The rookie on the scene even mentioned Floyd could be suffering from excited delirium, but Chauvin didn’t listen to him. I really think there’s more to this story than what has been reported. It makes zero sense for an officer to keep his knee on the neck of a handcuffed suspect for 8 minutes.

 

[ax1]

But back to the point, if that was the decision made and all the officers were on board, and protect at all costs, why did only one fire then? Why wasn't she hit 3-4 times or more? How is 1 round, "all costs"?

Further, the video I see clearly shows the officer using poor trigger discipline prior to the shooting, but hey...whatever. Maybe he wasn't quite sure what a threat was and was second guessing himself even. Good thing, because he almost pulled the trigger 3-4 times.

Plus, from the looks of the video, she wasn't even the one getting through, she was standing near the guys doing the breaking...unless there is a more clear angle than what I've seen.

I'm not saying you're even wrong or that the officer was "wrong". I get why he shot, it was a tough call. I'm not sure the other officers were in agreement with him though, since, you know, none of them fired. And, actually, they weren't even really to be seen in the video while he stayed up by the doors, so he was the only one that didn't retreat. Maybe they figured he was the fastest runner? If they planned on lighting up that hallway, I doubt they would have left one of their own behind to be in the crossfire. I mean, this is supposed to be heavily secure, I would think the guys have some level of training to plan for that.

Im not sure we need to overcomplicate this because the front officer got the job done, and its not only the single shot but people started getting shaked up when they saw the gun drawn, and they all backed down once it was shot and someone fell. Threat over. We can criticise the strategy and technique, but he got the job done.

Im basing all costs also on what I saw going on down the hallway, they were all set up to do what was needed.

There was absolutely no reason for anybody else to fire. Im not sure what the big deal is here, I said at they were setting up for a bloodbath, I doubt there was a single officer in that building that actually wanted one, they actually showed amazing restraint. But again, the single shot ended the breach.

 

[thebigt]

Excited delirium is what you’re looking for. It’s been around since the late 1800’s, first called Belle’s Mania. Some doctors think excited delirium is a fallacy. If law enforcement acted on it like the medical professionals that study it say, the officers would be erring on the side of caution. Proper training is to treat it as a medical emergency. In the Floyd incident it wasn’t handled properly. The rookie on the scene even mentioned Floyd could be suffering from excited delirium, but Chauvin didn’t listen to him. I really think there’s more to this story than what has been reported. It makes zero sense for an officer to keep his knee on the neck of a handcuffed suspect for 8 minutes.

it's too bad we don't have investigative journalists like back in the day-eh?

it was unreal what 60 minutes would uncover back in the days of mike wallace.

 

[ax1]

Plus, from the looks of the video, she wasn't even the one getting through, she was standing near the guys doing the breaking...unless there is a more clear angle than what I've seen.

I seriously dont want to see the video again, I saw it twice plus replayed a few scenes last night and I had a hard time sleeping last night and the shyttiest sleep in a long time. Couldnt get the images out of my head. What I do remember is as soon as the window broke she charged up to the window. Obviously, if she wasnt the one going through the window it doesnt matter, he fired a shot and people stopped.

 

[sammpedd88]

it's too bad we don't have investigative journalists like back in the day-eh?

it was unreal what 60 minutes would uncover back in the days of mike wallace.

Man I was thinking the same thing the other day. The media isn’t concerned with the facts. Their concerned with what sells. No more days of Mike Wallaces and Walter Cronkites.

 

[thebigt]

I seriously dont want to see the video again, I saw it twice plus replayed a few scenes last night and I had a hard time sleeping last night and the shyttiest sleep in a long time. Couldnt get the images out of my head. What I do remember is as soon as the window broke she charged up to the window. Obviously, if she wasnt the one going through the window it doesnt matter, he fired a shot and people stopped.

from what i have read she was a genuinely good person....one mistake and everyone forgets the life she led up to that point.

i will say a prayer for her family, this must be very hard for them.

 

[ax1]

i think the government is concerned that if they pass nonsense laws the police won't enforce them...look what happened in virginia with those gun laws.

clyde lewis said on ground zero that obama made a agreement with canada to use their military to squash civil uprising in the US if needed.

The lack of gun enforcment also happend in big areas of Western NY since the 2013 safe act was passed. Western NY is increasingly Libertarian.

We need to keep being friends and support our local/state police. I think they are the only ones that can truly make a difference between peace and a civil war. We need to put them in a better position to succeed and that of course is by....well Im ever so slightly biased but keep growing a small government pro-Constitution movement and getting them on board with that.

 

[ax1]

from what i have read she was a genuinely good person....one mistake and everyone forgets the live she led up to that point.

i will say a prayer for her family, this must be very hard for them.

Her voice was shyt on and ignored by very large segments of society. Government did a horrific job of addressing concerns of 10s of millions of passionate voters. I hope her life wasnt wasted, and that she can be the face and symbol of a future push for good common sense election reform.

 

[thebigt]

Man I was thinking the same thing the other day. The media isn’t concerned with the facts. Their concerned with what sells. No more days of Mike Wallaces and Walter Cronkites.

even worse, it seems the media has a vested interest in controlling what information gets out to the people-and always with a slant to it....remember cannon hinnant? imagine if cannon had been black and been shot by a white man in those circumstances!!!

 

[thebigt]

The lack of gun enforcment also happend in big areas of Western NY since the 2013 safe act was passed. Western NY is increasingly Libertarian.

We need to keep being friends and support our local/state police. I think they are the only ones that can truly make a difference between peace and a civil war. We need to put them in a better position to succeed and that of course is by....well Im ever so slightly biased but keep growing a small government pro-Constitution movement and getting them on board with that.

hopefully the libertarian movement will grow, many such as myself are growing disillusioned with republican party.

and yes,, WE THE PEOPLE need to stand with law enforcement, this is my biggest distance from democrats/liberals.

 

[sammpedd88]

even worse, it seems the media has a vested interest in controlling what information gets out to the people-and always with a slant to it....remember cannon hinnant? imagine if cannon had been black and been shot by a white man in those circumstances!!!

So true! Man every white family’s house would have been burned down. That murder happened about two hours from where I live. The media reported on it for a few days and was done with it. Yeah, the media definitely has a slant and control of info. Almost turns me to a conspiracy theory....hey @ax1 I need some guidance!

 

[ax1]

So true! Man every white family’s house would have been burned down. That murder happened about two hours from where I live. The media reported on it for a few days and was done with it. Yeah, the media definitely has a slant and control of info. Almost turns me to a conspiracy theory....hey @ax1 I need some guidance!

Operation Mockingbird.

 

[thebigt]

in my most honest opinion the biggest threat to black Americans is blm and their anti-police stance.


the number one cause of death for black males under 44 is homicide by another black male.

 

[thebigt]

article of impeachment against trump to be introduced monday in house.

 

[thebigt]

boz scaggs-lowdown

classic-timeless

 

[thebigt]

jamel aka jamal@keep great music alive.... i love watching this hip hop guy react to classic rock....music is the great uniter!!!


long live david gilmour

 

[puccah8808]

Happy National Law Enforcement Appreciation Day! I know there are a lot of you guys on here!

 

[thebigt]

any of you guys remember this oldie...billy thorpe-children of the sun?--gotta listen to with headphones!!!

how about-lunatic fringe by red rider or fantasy by aldo nova?

 

[thebigt]

live from daryl's house is some really great live music.

cee lo
rob thomas
joe walsh
billy gibbons
train-this live version of papa was a rolin' stone is amazing!!!
o'jays
how about darius rucker/daryl hall you've lost that loving feeling-live
damn, ain't no sunshine with finger eleven brilliant-bill would give thumbsup
omg-never heard of jimmy wayne but he just killed it on sara smile-wow!!
aaron neville-one on one....blown away!!!


geez, the o'jays-backstabbers live on daryl's house. a real slice of heaven-what they do, smilin in your face all the time wanna take your place-i freaking love this song.

all i need now is the spinners doing- i'll be around-this is our fork in the road....

 

[thebigt]

Happy National Law Enforcement Appreciation Day! I know there are a lot of you guys on here!

i 2nd this!!!

 

[kenic03]

you didn't know me and i didn't know you, but now we know each other a little better and things can be more civil.

actually i was a hippie back in the days before i joined the military, and was very liberal-i even voted for jimmy carter when i turned 18....i am much farther to the left than most trump supporters, the biggest reason i supported trump was his stand on immigration-hillary and democrats were proposing open borders and i am very much for having a strong border and am in favor of putting American citizens 1st.

i grew up next to the largest project in indianapolis in a mostly black neighborhood, i even went to several civil rights marches back in the day--those marches WERE peaceful and accomplished a lot for rights of blacks. there actually was a lot of racism back in those days---comparing those days to today-blacks have come a long way.

It’s all good. All I wanted was some discussion. Not trying to pick a fight on a forum board. Just trying to get a better understanding of everything. I’m with you on America first but the problem with that it tends to lean with a little racism at times. Hell Trump had my vote in 2016 just as a business owner. The problem with the marches now is that there’s no direction and to many hands in the pot. There’s women that have issues, there’s the lgbtqxyz, Latinos, so on and so on. Just a heads up BLM started as a black lesbian organization that had issues with black men so take that for whatever you want @Ricky10. All respect for everyone’s views.

 

[kenic03]

So true! Man every white family’s house would have been burned down. That murder happened about two hours from where I live. The media reported on it for a few days and was done with it. Yeah, the media definitely has a slant and control of info. Almost turns me to a conspiracy theory....hey @ax1 I need some guidance!

Has any of the cops that killed unarmed black people houses been burnt down or there families in danger. Zimmerman still out here in these streets living his best life.

 

[ax1]

Has any of the cops that killed unarmed black people houses been burnt down or there families in danger. Zimmerman still out here in these streets living his best life.

They blamed white privileged for the Martin and than LMFAO Zimmerman wasnt even white!

 

[ax1]

It’s all good. All I wanted was some discussion. Not trying to pick a fight on a forum board. Just trying to get a better understanding of everything. I’m with you on America first but the problem with that it tends to lean with a little racism at times. Hell Trump had my vote in 2016 just as a business owner. The problem with the marches now is that there’s no direction and to many hands in the pot. There’s women that have issues, there’s the lgbtqxyz, Latinos, so on and so on. Just a heads up BLM started as a black lesbian organization that had issues with black men so take that for whatever you want @Ricky10. All respect for everyone’s views.

I thought it was started in response to the Travan Martin incident, and the founder's main inspiration was a fugitive who escaped prison for killing police. I read that on one of their direct websites a while back. And no, she didnt say her main inspiration was a "cop killer" but I did look up the biography of her main inspiration.

 

[ax1]

It’s all good. All I wanted was some discussion. Not trying to pick a fight on a forum board. Just trying to get a better understanding of everything. I’m with you on America first but the problem with that it tends to lean with a little racism at times. Hell Trump had my vote in 2016 just as a business owner. The problem with the marches now is that there’s no direction and to many hands in the pot. There’s women that have issues, there’s the lgbtqxyz, Latinos, so on and so on. Just a heads up BLM started as a black lesbian organization that had issues with black men so take that for whatever you want @Ricky10. All respect for everyone’s views.

Ah here it is,

"#BlackLivesMatter was founded in 2013 in response to the acquittal of Trayvon Martin’s murderer."

Source, and damn the link is long, lol

https://blacklivesmatter.com/about/?__cf_chl_jschl_tk__=74057f6885a6e6318f4e9c7082fd39285bc79a58-1610244951-0-AcmTU1vtWfwLwPFp-mThnAgAUjj_wwm47k-W7ZIDy3GceH0XU3bcdJtSwyDdNIAzMx2A4WTQsr8fkBoOKSXxwNmM7D25D1ObltnWpwRVzEzDQZADNi-VKUeks8d5SowCZU0hm1rSaeA-wlPV-h49dUX1-EhcK1vxMi-GNqqU3Jss-fagCRmpbQdFjIq8L1PanGk9BDWpzDbtZDp1h4WfAkF9S8kY1iQs9DXAQM1lYXaTrV5JY_zgohOEM5zPfcKHekrMv-ZfjCnEZgkI5Dgis6gNa7OXO-c6MXC-hYTIY1qAi-VIHr-4rSIy1c5zFJ08X2XPTtyfkrXZxVUTYeEJc7apu6BR9j_M-YwKPPJfHLHIsRGZywWipFve0CP8XkuCqg

 

[kenic03]

I thought it was started in response to the Travan Martin incident, and the founder's main inspiration was a fugitive who escaped prison for killing police. I read that on one of their direct websites a while back. And no, she didnt say her main inspiration was a "cop killer" but I did look up the biography of her main inspiration.

No sir that information is incorrect but it doesn’t matter at this point.