Sean1332
Legend
Those short sessions are always refreshing and welcomed.
Remember Me? The Swanson52 Log of PL Program Hopping.
- Thread starter Swanson52
- Start date
Swanson52
Well-known member
Ya man the 5th Set upper body stuff has been quick. The lower is longer because I’m freakin 45 and have to warm up for 5 minutes short of eternity.
jswain34
Well-known member
Awesome. Thanks y’all. Glad I asked. Dont have to deal with EFS’ outrageous shipping this way either.
Hyde
Legend
This is why I normally do the back & bicep work on upper days. Otherwise upper days are fast as hell, and the lower days are seriously unfinishable. I need about 30 min to get warmed up for lower, then squat for an hour, then accessory squat, and be exhausted because it was 2 hours already. I didn’t have the steam to then train upper back, traps, legpress, reverse hyper, calves, biceps. That’s a 4 hour session if you even have the energy to complete it! GTFO of here with that crap, Swede. I ain’t tryin to have 2 goddamn strongman event days every microcycle.
Had my bench blokz forever, like 6 years; super durable and versatile and look same as first day. Great product.
I bought the 1/2-1Board as well within the last year I liked the 2-5 so much.
jswain34
Well-known member
Just bought the 2-5 board off amazon - free shipping that’ll be here saturday vs EFS’ 15$ shipping = no brainer. Also agree that the time discrepancy between the upper/lower sessions is insane. AM’s new rendition of 5th set where some of the accessories programmed for the lower days are moved to the upper days will be far superior!
Swanson52
Well-known member
What’s this new rendition you speak of?
jswain34
Well-known member
The one we’re all going to start using where we do the some of the rows and curls on the upper days vs the lower days where they’re programmed by Swede.
Swanson52
Well-known member
Lol ohhhh I gotcha!
Swanson52
Well-known member
Lol ohhhh I gotcha!
jswain34
Well-known member
Well, I assume he doesnt include them on the MSM training means list in evolutions for a reason...if I were to find a spot for them it would be in the “mesosycle 3 (strength)” subset. So if you’re going to be using the MSM strength protocol, which he says you really shouldn’t be unless youre gearing up for a meet soon (which i know youve talked about, but don’t remember exactly where that stands) then I’d skip em for now. I most definitely wouldnt do them as an accessory, if theres any place for them its as an MSM and with a slight deficit...nothing crazy.
Swanson52
Well-known member
Excellent feedback. I appreciate that.
jswain34
Well-known member
Hyde
Legend
I mean I have read both the method books 2-3 times in completion and try to watch every podcast or anything released with him to understand his ideology as well as possible. 5th Set has proven itself 3x in a row for me personally, & I think a lot of his methods are based in both science and obvious widespread success - things like block periodization/progressive sport specificity within the macrocycle, never leaving the comp movements entirely, longterm delayed training effect LTDE based-peaking, autoregulation.
The guy has experimented a lot over time, and nothing at all has been suggested without thought. For example, pull-ups are after deadlifts because they help traction the back. Barbell rows are important, but after lots of pulling the last thing most guys are able to manage is more bent over pulling.
Swede said he has done upper back work on upper days instead and it worked fine, he just prefers to put it on lower days and keep upper days easier.
The big thing to consider is the goal of the earlier mesocycles’s MSM is to build more muscle specific to the big 3 movements. So there needs to be significant volume accomplished. If I was going to try using deficits, I would keep them on the light end. Consider that you will never ever have to pull that far down in a comp, so that is less specific than a rack or block pull (which is in a range you will ALWAYS have to pull through). I would say unless you are glaringly weak off the floor, it’s probably not the best choice. Also consider that paused or tempo leg presses can be used to build that starting muscle as a general accessory anyway (one of his recommended ones).
If you do go with them, I subscribe to the Paul Carter ideology that you should just stand on the smooth side of a plate. Any bigger deficit really begins to change your body position away from your comp pull. Big deficits are good for bodybuilding and strongman, but they definitely aren’t specific to powerlifting.
Hyde
Legend
I mean I have read both the method books 2-3 times in completion and try to watch every podcast or anything released with him to understand his ideology as well as possible. 5th Set has proven itself 3x in a row for me personally, & I think a lot of his methods are based in both science and obvious widespread success - things like block periodization/progressive sport specificity within the macrocycle, never leaving the comp movements entirely, longterm delayed training effect LTDE based-peaking, autoregulation.
The guy has experimented a lot over time, and nothing at all has been suggested without thought. For example, pull-ups are after deadlifts because they help traction the back. Barbell rows are important, but after lots of pulling the last thing most guys are able to manage is more bent over pulling.
Swede said he has done upper back work on upper days instead and it worked fine, he just prefers to put it on lower days and keep upper days easier.
The big thing to consider is the goal of the earlier mesocycles’s MSM is to build more muscle specific to the big 3 movements. So there needs to be significant volume accomplished. If I was going to try using deficits, I would keep them on the light end. Consider that you will never ever have to pull that far down in a comp, so that is less specific than a rack or block pull (which is in a range you will ALWAYS have to pull through). I would say unless you are glaringly weak off the floor, it’s probably not the best choice. Also consider that paused or tempo leg presses can be used to build that starting muscle as a general accessory anyway (one of his recommended ones).
If you do go with them, I subscribe to the Paul Carter ideology that you should just stand on the smooth side of a plate. Any bigger deficit really begins to change your body position away from your comp pull. Big deficits are good for bodybuilding and strongman, but they definitely aren’t specific to powerlifting.
Swanson52
Well-known member
I mean I have read both the method books 2-3 times in completion and try to watch every podcast or anything released with him to understand his ideology as well as possible. 5th Set has proven itself 3x in a row for me personally, & I think a lot of his methods are based in both science and obvious widespread success - things like block periodization/progressive sport specificity within the macrocycle, never leaving the comp movements entirely, longterm delayed training effect LTDE based-peaking, autoregulation.
The guy has experimented a lot over time, and nothing at all has been suggested without thought. For example, pull-ups are after deadlifts because they help traction the back. Barbell rows are important, but after lots of pulling the last thing most guys are able to manage is more bent over pulling.
Swede said he has done upper back work on upper days instead and it worked fine, he just prefers to put it on lower days and keep upper days easier.
The big thing to consider is the goal of the earlier mesocycles’s MSM is to build more muscle specific to the big 3 movements. So there needs to be significant volume accomplished. If I was going to try using deficits, I would keep them on the light end. Consider that you will never ever have to pull that far down in a comp, so that is less specific than a rack or block pull (which is in a range you will ALWAYS have to pull through). I would say unless you are glaringly weak off the floor, it’s probably not the best choice. Also consider that paused or tempo leg presses can be used to build that starting muscle as a general accessory anyway (one of his recommended ones).
If you do go with them, I subscribe to the Paul Carter ideology that you should just stand on the smooth side of a plate. Any bigger deficit really begins to change your body position away from your comp pull. Big deficits are good for bodybuilding and strongman, but they definitely aren’t specific to powerlifting.
Damn, man. GREAT post. I really thank you for your insight.
Swanson52
Well-known member
I had physical therapy yesterday. We talked pressing, and I’m on the right track there, but he also stated he wants me to row 2:1 ratio pull/push. So with 3 pressing exercises, I’m going to incorporate 6 row variations. I know this isn’t purely 5th set, but I need the rehab work.
Also-275.0 this morning. 275 marks exactly 50 pounds of weight loss since 2/20. I’m excited to see that number.
Also-275.0 this morning. 275 marks exactly 50 pounds of weight loss since 2/20. I’m excited to see that number.
Last edited:
Swanson52
Well-known member
I had physical therapy yesterday. We talked pressing, and I’m on the right track there, but he also stated he wants me to row 2:1 ratio pull/push. So with 3 pressing exercises, I’m going to incorporate 6 row variations. I know this isn’t purely 5th set, but I need the rehab work.
Also-275.8 this morning. 275 marks exactly 50 pounds of weight loss since 2/20. I’m excited to see that number.
Also-275.8 this morning. 275 marks exactly 50 pounds of weight loss since 2/20. I’m excited to see that number.
jswain34
Well-known member
You could do 3x20 band pull aparts or facepulls in your warmup every time you train (aside from the second pressing day where youre already doing 90-105 pull aparts) on top of the regularly rxd rowing and youre already >200 reps for “rowing” (anti pressing) vs 100 pressing work reps per microcycle. I prefer to look at it on a reps vs reps basis vs a # of exercises vs # of exercises. Maybe run that by him. Realistically you could do 3x20 band PAs & FPs on off days even and get that to a 3:1 ratio.
Itd be very tough for me to tell someone they should horizontally row less, but if you do add in more exercises just be careful to make sure the ones you choose dont push your lumbar past its recoverability limits when added to the regular 5th set work.
Congrats on that weight loss! Thats huge in just over 5 months. Very impressive.
SweetLou321
Well-known member
I have used both. Bench blocks a good replacement for blocks if you want 1-3 board options, set up is iffy if they arnt squared right upon unrack (I would make my own and had a buddy do it in the past), shoulder saver is super easy to use but it only a two board height, if that is the board you want and you want a soft touch and more natural feel then get that.
Hyde
Legend
I was thinking all of this. The volume ratio is what your therapist is likely after.
Congrats on such a big milestone! What you are doing is working so stay with it.
SkRaw85
Legend
Congrats man that’s big numbers down!
Swanson52
Well-known member
Not a bad day. Down to 273.2, but it’s not fat loss; I’m on an antibiotic, and even though I’m taking a probiotic with it, I’m still in the bathroom 3-4 times/day.
SQUAT
370x2x4
370x5.
Sean told me that Swede says to cap the AMRAP at 5 in deficit, and he reiterated that on Instagram. So, that’s what I’m doing.
TRANSFORMER BAR
275x8x4
INCLINE DB ROWS
60x8x4
DB SLDL
70x8x4
100 band face pulls, 80 pull aparts.
Fun.
SQUAT
370x2x4
370x5.
Sean told me that Swede says to cap the AMRAP at 5 in deficit, and he reiterated that on Instagram. So, that’s what I’m doing.
TRANSFORMER BAR
275x8x4
INCLINE DB ROWS
60x8x4
DB SLDL
70x8x4
100 band face pulls, 80 pull aparts.
Fun.
Swanson52
Well-known member
That’s a fact.
Swanson52
Well-known member
Supposed to bench tomorrow, but we’ll be busy with my daughter’s senior pics, packing, moving the next 3 days, so I benched today.
BENCH
245x2,2,2,2
245x5
I might change my comp width to the grip I used today. Felt good, shoulder didn’t have a single issue. Just a thumb length from the smooth.
CGBP 2bd
190x8x4
I moved these back to main bench day as prescribed in the program.
BB ROW
190x8x4
HAMMER CURL
35x8x4
DB SKULLCRUSHERS
35x8x4
Encouraging day for bench.
BENCH
245x2,2,2,2
245x5
I might change my comp width to the grip I used today. Felt good, shoulder didn’t have a single issue. Just a thumb length from the smooth.
CGBP 2bd
190x8x4
I moved these back to main bench day as prescribed in the program.
BB ROW
190x8x4
HAMMER CURL
35x8x4
DB SKULLCRUSHERS
35x8x4
Encouraging day for bench.
Swanson52
Well-known member
Ya man I’m excited for this and the SSB. I’ve been using it and I’m really pleased with it. Handy as hell.
273.2 today. Might get to the 260’s this month!
Hyde
Legend
It’s not about nutrition! *closes eyes in denial*
Hyde
Legend
There are folks that really believe TRT does the work. I worked with some fat guys who got on. They didn’t lift or eat anything remotely healthy. Still fat AF with no muscle, they just had more energy lol
Hyde
Legend
Sustainable is the important part. That’s what will allow you to go the distance.
Swanson52
Well-known member
Back at it after 3 days of loading a house in a uhaul, driving 10 hours, then unloading. Ughhhh. FML.
271.4
DEADS
340x3x5
RACK PULLS
405x8x4
SHRUGS
275x10x4
LEG CURL
?x8x4
Also-I’m staying in a tiny town in Nebraska of about 1000 people, and they have a little community fitness center. Of all the things one of these places could have, this one had a black zinc Texas Power Bar. Win!
271.4
DEADS
340x3x5
RACK PULLS
405x8x4
SHRUGS
275x10x4
LEG CURL
?x8x4
Also-I’m staying in a tiny town in Nebraska of about 1000 people, and they have a little community fitness center. Of all the things one of these places could have, this one had a black zinc Texas Power Bar. Win!
Last edited:
Hyde
Legend
Congrats on surviving the move, and getting your pulls in! That bar is gonna be nifty.
Your rackpulls are too heavy if you’re trying to follow the 5th Set methodology. Idk if you have read the second book, but the MSMs are to be a lower % of your training max than the comp work. So you get to move lighter weights as you fatigue through the session. Swede usually recommends 50-60% for the hypertrophy blocks (sets of 10-15 usually) and strength blocks around 70% of comp (except SSB or Frontsquat, you need to base your numbers off your estimated max for those because they’ll be so much lower).
Or you could raise your floor weight
Your rackpulls are too heavy if you’re trying to follow the 5th Set methodology. Idk if you have read the second book, but the MSMs are to be a lower % of your training max than the comp work. So you get to move lighter weights as you fatigue through the session. Swede usually recommends 50-60% for the hypertrophy blocks (sets of 10-15 usually) and strength blocks around 70% of comp (except SSB or Frontsquat, you need to base your numbers off your estimated max for those because they’ll be so much lower).
Or you could raise your floor weight
Swanson52
Well-known member
Congrats on surviving the move, and getting your pulls in! That bar is gonna be nifty.
Your rackpulls are too heavy if you’re trying to follow the 5th Set methodology. Idk if you have read the second book, but the MSMs are to be a lower % of your training max than the comp work. So you get to move lighter weights as you fatigue through the session. Swede usually recommends 50-60% for the hypertrophy blocks (sets of 10-15 usually) and strength blocks around 70% of comp (except SSB or Frontsquat, you need to base your numbers off your estimated max for those because they’ll be so much lower).
Or you could raise your floor weight
Well **** I must’ve missed that. They sucked bad so I’ll welcome dropping them to the 250 range! Thanks for the guidance homey!
Hyde
Legend
Yeah my floor was 470 using 75% and my 4.5” Blockpulls was to be 385 for like 3x12-15.