GreenMachineX
Well-known member
Best post of this thread!
Anyone worried if Corona virus keeps spreading the gyms will shut down?
- Thread starter JoePaul39
- Start date
HIT4ME
Well-known member
I think the idea of protesting doctors is. Valid analogy. BLM is not picking out ONLY killings with malice. They are assuming every killing of a black man by a police officer is racially motivated. I bet they would include killings by black officers if it benefited their movement. And they include killings that are likely justified in the line of duty.
Meanwhile, there are studies showing doctors give lesser treatment to black patients.
Meanwhile, there are studies showing doctors give lesser treatment to black patients.
jswain34
Well-known member
Please, protest MDs, DOs, NPs, & PAs next time you or a family member needs to go to the ER. Good luck with that.
I guarantee you no one in the place that finds themselves caring for you whether you’re red/white/black/brown/purple is just purposely letting people die when they’re yelling that they cant breathe. Go ahead and keep creating false equivalencies though...
HIT4ME
Well-known member
Sorry, I may not have been clear. I think the analogy is valid. The same logic is being applied in both situations. The doctor application, however, really highlights how ludicrous the "protest the police" logic is - that is my point.
And your application carries that point further. Please protest police next time someone rapes, attacks, or kills a family member or robs your house.
In other words, we agree...like GreenMachine, I am just saying the logic is highly flawed.
jswain34
Well-known member
GreenMachineX
Well-known member
Exactly. Thank you for explaining it better.
thebigt
Legend
you are reading my mind, i see this coming-unfortunately....
xR1pp3Rx
Legend
the cases may be going up but if you look at the numbers, these are mostly young people and the cases are very mild. the death rate continues to fall daily. so its sucks that your suspicion may come to fruition. The libs will ride this train until the elections are over... then it will probably be like any of your everyday memes. "and just like that covid 19 dissapeared"
muscleupcrohn
Legend
My friend, I hope you are right that it will "just disappear," but that may well not be the case, especially if people are careless about it. Have you researched the Spanish Flu at all? Genuinely curious, as the second wave of the Spanish flu killed ~5x more people than the first wave.
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The idea that if we do nothing it'll just go away is silly. The reason it hasn't been more catastrophic is BECAUSE of the actions we've been taking that people like you say are "overreactions."
thebigt
Legend
i am sick of political views being crammed down my throat...i went to record r
i would not be surprised to see that after the election drugs for the treatment of covid19 'miraculously' start appearing.
muscleupcrohn
Legend
I mean, the longer from now it is, the more likely it is we have better treatments. Also, there are OTHER COUNTRIES BESIDES THE US you know. Why would the UK, Australia, Germany, etc. wait to release drugs for an AMERICAN election lol. You think the US is the only country in the world that develops drugs?
thebigt
Legend
in case you haven't noticed--politics are global.
you think other countries don't care about american politics?
bigbeaph
Well-known member
The idea this disease will simply go away seems a bit far fetched. The idea that the government can protect us from a virus is even more absurd. If it is half as contagious as they would like us to believe then you have either been exposed / had covid 19 or you will be. Since the death rate is dropping- and the CDC has had a problem reporting deaths...i.e. theyve revised them lower multiple times (not all the news agencies are reporting those revisions) It appears healthy people will be just fine. I'm more concerned about the flu than covid 19 based on all the data. If I listen to all the speculation than I'm more worried about covid than any other disease. What a mess. Bottom line - if you are not a "healthy" individual then take all the precautions you think are necessary. Quarantine, only shop at places that require masks....other than that this is a silly subject based on the many scenarios we are given from every end of the spectrum....time will tell
muscleupcrohn
Legend
There's been 40k plus COVID deaths in the UK, and probably close to 10k each in Germany and Australia. No, I don't think THE ENTIRE WORLD, and FOREIGN PRIVATE COMPANIES WHO COULD MAKE AN ABSOLUTE KILLING ON THESE DRUGS are ALL waiting for US election to end. The entire world doesn't revolve ENTIRELY around the United States. Very arrogant of us to think it does IMO.
Honest question: how much do you know about drug development and approval? There are already a number of drugs being tested, but approval takes time, and trials, to determine safety and efficacy. Not EVERYTHING is a conspiracy based solely on the US.
thebigt
Legend
i don't know a lot about anything...but i do know there are people in a lot of countries that hate trump...i honestly believe there are many people who would do anything to prevent trumps re-election.
muscleupcrohn
Legend
I can tell you that the heads of most foreign pharmaceutical companies love MONEY a lot more than they hate Trump. And they know if they have something ready now, and wait several months to release it for the US election, they risk not being the first to the market, potentially losing literally BILLIONS of dollars. Sorry, but I vehemently disagree with you on this one.
xR1pp3Rx
Legend
Its a gawd dayummed shame most of em are here in this country tho
muscleupcrohn
Legend
How are you more concerned about the flu? COVID has already killed 2-6x more people than your typical flu season does, and that's WITH all the distancing and shutdowns we have had. Also, excess deaths this year DO match the reported number of COVID deaths. And the revisions being made are relatively small in the scheme of things, not enough to drastically change things. Do you want me to re-post my sources for these claims? I can. They were in this very thread IIRC.
Also, up to 45% of Americans have pre-existing conditions that makes them vulnerable to COVID, with up to 20% of people aged 20-29 even. I can also re-share this source if you want me to.
So up to half the population of the country are not "healthy individuals" here, and 1 in 5 20-somethings are not either.
Do you want me to re-post the sources? Please tell me. And explain if/why you disagree with them...
thebigt
Legend
it's ok if we disagree...but i think there is much more money involved getting trump out---he is standing in the way of globalism.
trumps america1st is costing them in a big way.
HIT4ME
Well-known member
You may not realize this, but you are falling victim to the most liberal of mindsets/myths. The myth of "secret knowledge". The idea that there is someone at a university, or a doctor, or whatever authority you like that has some "secret knowledge" that is unattainable by mere mortals.
The fact of the matter is, there are thousands of scientists with vast resources and intelligence searching for a treatment to this. There are also doctors doing the same thing. The idea that there could be a treatment out there and it is being kept secret is ludicrous. I mean, my friend is a doctor and he has patients he is giving drugs to and trying things on that seem to be within reason...and he's just one doctor. There are thousands of him out there, many who are probably more willing to reach further into their bag of tricks in dire circumstances...not to mention individuals willing to swallow bleach for this...
If there was a solution out there and anyone found it, it would be very unlikely that it could be kept secret. And if it was a complex solution that someone found first - they wouldn't be keeping it under wraps right now and risking someone else figures it out before they can get credit and rights to their discovery. That would be very risky and would require cooperation among some of the most competitive, cut-throat companies out there. I mean, if all the drug companies are actually creating these conspiracies...would you trust your competitor to play by the rules if you made a deal to keep it secret?
To be more clear - you just discovered the cure to Covid and you could make millions, but you want Trump out. I'm your competitor and I have already cut your throat in this industry a half dozen times, and you've cut mine a half dozen times in the past. You come to me and say, "Hey, I have the cure, but I'm going to sit on this for 6 months. Would you agree to keep this under wraps and stop working on this so that we can wait until Trump is out of office?"
I say yes.
Here is the question now. How fuggin' dumb are you? Are you going to sit around and take my word for it? Or do you think I'm going to keep working until I figure it out, knowing I have 6 months were you're just sitting on it....and I can beat you to the punch and make billions.
I know you can't be that naive...mainly because you've displayed greater intelligence than this in other posts on this board.
muscleupcrohn
Legend
You mean to tell me that a German/UK/Australian PRIVATE pharmaceutical company has more to gain by getting Trump out than they do by being the first to market with a successful COVID treatment? Yeah, no.
thebigt
Legend
lol...and being financed by world globalists, imo.
xR1pp3Rx
Legend
oh I don't disagree one bit. if he fails to be re-elected, you can kiss America good bye. that's not speculation. its down to that point.
Rush always said it would be pretty impossible to stop the destruction once the progressives reached 50% of the population. welp, looks like that day has come. and unfortunately there are no mule deer on Mars.
FML
Rush always said it would be pretty impossible to stop the destruction once the progressives reached 50% of the population. welp, looks like that day has come. and unfortunately there are no mule deer on Mars.
FML
muscleupcrohn
Legend
Not MILLIONS. BILLIONS. And the reputation of being the company to "cure/fix/solve/etc." the worst pandemic in a century. Imagine passing this up because you don't like the leader of a FOREIGN country. It's laughable.
muscleupcrohn
Legend
Lol. Is Rush's word Gospel now? And you act like Bush hasn't done anything to help lead America down a bad path. Yeah, it's 100% ALL the Democrats fault. Republicans have NEVER done anything wrong. Nope. Not once.
thebigt
Legend
call me dumb, call me naive...by january 2021 drugs to treat covid 19 will be available, but not until after november-bookmark this post.
muscleupcrohn
Legend
It’s almost like multiple months matter...
HIT4ME
Well-known member
I think you are being far to conservative with your numbers as well. 45% of Americans have pre-existing conditions...but how about we think bigger...70% of Americans are overweight and 40% are obese - a major pre-existing condition that correlates with higher death rates and worse outcomes in Covid infections.
Now, add in the % of normal weight individuals with pre-existing conditions. I would be we are at 80% or more of Americans at risk for this disease.
The data that is out there suggests that in order for us to reach herd immunity, without any other better intervention first, more than 2M Americans will die. That's the losses of WW2 every year for the next 5 years as an example. Maybe the data I have at this point is not accurate, but it's accurate enough that I can't believe it won't be at least half that. The math is simple.
And to be clear - I'm not arguing against you - I'm arguing WITH you. I think you're arguments are restrained
I do agree that a lot of people are looking for globalism at the expense of America. There was an article today saying how "European leaders believe that Biden will repair the relationships that Trump has damaged". Well, honestly, maybe I don't see a need to repair those relationships. It's a "please sir, may I have another" situation. Like it is some privilege for us to be in an international relationship where we pay for things and provide support and aid and get almost nothing in return. Just like Trump with the WHO funding. We spent WAY more than any other country on WHO and I can see an argument that it is necessary - but what are we getting for paying for everyone else's share? Why do we need to repair relationships like this?
It's like an abuser saying, "You left me because I hit you every day. But leaving me was really bad and you owe me a lot before I'll let you come back."
HIT4ME
Well-known member
Great point. And it's for 4 years only.....
If I'm that evil that I would let at least hundreds of thousands of lives perish because I hate someone - well then I wouldn't care if Hitler runs the country for the next 4 years if I was guaranteed to make billions during that timeframe. It's going to be a good 4 years for me.
Obviously I hesitate to use that analogy over the internet, but I hope the meaning conveys.
I love Rush. He can be thought provoking. Not gospel...but....still.
The issue with republicans is that you CANNOT be a career politician AND a republican. They are in-congruent ideas. If you are a career politician, you gain power and benefits by making your job more and more indispensable - which means the more you grow the government and get people on hand outs, the more solidified your position becomes. Term limits is the only way to get true republicans back into power, in my humble opinion.
HIT4ME
Well-known member
Sorry - I hope you know I wasn't calling you dumb or naive, I don't think of you as being either by a long shot and I didn't mean to call names if it came out that way. I should have communicated better.
thebigt
Legend
it's also laughable that you think this chance for money will disappear if they wait until after november.
muscleupcrohn
Legend
If ONE company decides they love money more than they hate Trump, and gets it out before November, then yeah, the money will be greatly diminished if you're not the first one to the punch. If the pandemic is still around when one company brings a safe and effective treatment to market, say in November, imagine how much money they'll make, and the market share they'll eat up, while other companies sit on finished products for MONTHS because they hate Trump, the leader of a FOREIGN COUNTRY. It's beyond laughable really...
muscleupcrohn
Legend
Go through my post history. I shared my sources for where I got my % values from. I'm not sure if it's only obesity, or only morbid obesity, they considered to be a true risk factor here, but they were reputable papers, and even "only" 45% is still a pretty damn huge number, and directly conflicts with the people here saying "oh, just quarantine retirement homes and the few people at risk." Man, it's half the damn population, not just a bunch of old people and a few people with cancer. But people ITT won't let facts get in the way of "what they see." What a shame...I think you are being far to conservative with your numbers as well. 45% of Americans have pre-existing conditions...but how about we think bigger...70% of Americans are overweight and 40% are obese - a major pre-existing condition that correlates with higher death rates and worse outcomes in Covid infections.
Now, add in the % of normal weight individuals with pre-existing conditions. I would be we are at 80% or more of Americans at risk for this disease.
The data that is out there suggests that in order for us to reach herd immunity, without any other better intervention first, more than 2M Americans will die. That's the losses of WW2 every year for the next 5 years as an example. Maybe the data I have at this point is not accurate, but it's accurate enough that I can't believe it won't be at least half that. The math is simple.
And to be clear - I'm not arguing against you - I'm arguing WITH you. I think you're arguments are restrained
I do agree that a lot of people are looking for globalism at the expense of America. There was an article today saying how "European leaders believe that Biden will repair the relationships that Trump has damaged". Well, honestly, maybe I don't see a need to repair those relationships. It's a "please sir, may I have another" situation. Like it is some privilege for us to be in an international relationship where we pay for things and provide support and aid and get almost nothing in return. Just like Trump with the WHO funding. We spent WAY more than any other country on WHO and I can see an argument that it is necessary - but what are we getting for paying for everyone else's share? Why do we need to repair relationships like this?
It's like an abuser saying, "You left me because I hit you every day. But leaving me was really bad and you owe me a lot before I'll let you come back."
thebigt
Legend
lol...you ever hear of a little oil organisation called opec?
opec was founded in 1960, you don't think todays phamaceutical giants haven't learned a thing or two, lol.
if a bunch of arab countries that hated each other could come together, you don't think phamaceutical companies could?
c'mom, man
muscleupcrohn
Legend
I hate to break it to you, but 99.9% of politicians today, on both sides, are in favor of big government. They just want to control you in different ways.
Democrats want to tax the hell out of you, and have more control of the economy, and want to ban most/all guns, but want less social laws/rules, less illegal drugs.
Republicans want less taxes and control over the economy, and less gun-control laws, but want more restrictive social laws, things that make/keep a ton of drugs illegal, that prevent abortions (often even in the case of rape and incest), and often that prevent gay couples from having the same rights under the law as straight couples. Now, I'm ALL for allowing a given religion to accept and refuse whatever they want, but the GOVERNMENT should grant a CIVIL UNION to any two consenting, mentally sound adults, and their religion of choice can accept or deny their "marriage" as they see fit.
And then BOTH parties seem to love spying on people, whether it's Bush and the Patriot Act, or Obama and the NSA Spying.
NEITHER party is "small government" in 2020. Just big in different ways.
muscleupcrohn
Legend
So you think EVERY SINGLE FOREIGN PHARMACEUTICAL COMPANY IN THE ENTIRE WORLD are all waiting for the US election to end, because they ALL hate a FOREIGN LEADER so much that NONE OF THEM will want to be the first to market what would be viewed as a literal MIRACLE DRUG?
Comparing this to oil is wrong. Oil is something with a CONSTANT demand for years/decades. This COVID drug would be an immediate commodity, with whoever gets it first making a killing, and everyone else left sitting on their hands with their thumbs up their asses, and tens of millions of dollars of R&D dollars wasted because they sat on a finished product for MONTHS waiting for a FOREIGN ELECTION to end.
It's just bad logic man. I'm sorry, but you're better than that...
muscleupcrohn
Legend
Also, in addition to the points raised in my other post, oil is oil, so they can all work together to try to set the market and prices to benefit them all. You can't patent oil...
But with pharmaceutical companies, the first one to the punch gets the patent, and the first one to the market gets the market share and the press. It's not even remotely comparable.
thebigt
Legend
i hate to break this to you but i understand more than you think...most republicans are as much for globalism as the democrats...trump is the only one with the balls to stand in their way.
no other politician, republican or democrat would have pulled out of the paris climate accord, withdrew from obama's iran deal, took on the UN, or defunded WHO....c'mon, man
thebigt
Legend
ever hear of something called a flu shot?
it's needed every year since virus's mutate-right?
muscleupcrohn
Legend
You just supported my point man... most Republicans in 2020 ARE for big government and globalism. Trump isn't your typical/average Republican. We agree on that...
muscleupcrohn
Legend
A vaccine is not the same as a treatment. You yourself said you were talking about a drug to TREAT this virus. Vaccines have demand always, treatments only have as much value as there are active cases. Which means during a pandemic is when the treatment would be the most valuable. Are you talking vaccines or treatments? Experts have been saying we wouldn't have a vaccine here until 2021 since they started researching it. That's not news, and you don't need conspiracy talk to say that.
thebigt
Legend
the flu shot is not a vaccine, there is no vaccine even after all these years, and the flu season comes every year-what makes you think covid would be any different? they still have no aids vaccine, but they have very expensive 'treatments' that require a lifetime on meds---compared to how few people have aids a seasonal treatment for covid would be very profitable for a pharmaceutical 'conglemerate' .
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muscleupcrohn
Legend
The flu shot IS a vaccine. Why do you post nonsense that is easily disproven? Do some research before you post... you’re wasting both of our time now.
“An annual seasonal flu vaccine is the best way to help protect against flu..”
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thebigt
Legend
definition of vaccine-to provide protection against disease...many years the protection is against the wrong strand and provides virtually no protection against getting the flu---if it provides no protection then it is inaccurate to describe it as a vaccine---duh!!!
the flu shot is at best hit or miss!!!
muscleupcrohn
Legend
"Duh?" So you're saying the CDC is wrong, that it's not a vaccine.
Glad to know that the US got it wrong. And the UK. And Australia...
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It is a vaccine, just only for some strains of the flu. It provides protection against those strains. That doesn't make it "not a vaccine."
At first thought you were just misinformed, but now you are being willfully ignorant, and I have no respect for people who choose to remain willfully ignorant.
muscleupcrohn
Legend
Flu shot effectiveness per year tends to be ~40-60%. How is that "virtually no protection." You just type s**t up that is EASILY shown to be OBJECTIVELY incorrect. Not a perfect vaccine doesn't mean it's not a vaccine. And the audacity to then punctuate your wrong claims with "duh" is the epitome of audacity and arrogance.
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thebigt
Legend
dude, if you do a little research you will find that many years they admit they made the wrong vaccine for the strand of flu that season rendering it virtually useless.
even people who believe in vaccines don't bother with flu shots---why do you think most people refer to them as flu shots instead of flu vaccines---i will tell you why, because by calling flu shots vaccines they know they would be discrediting vaccines that actually work!!!