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Pro-/Prebiotics, the Gut, and Muscle Mass

Ptlhains said:
I am not able to get going on gut health either- please describe what you mean by histamine rushes.
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My hands and face turn bright red easily (and I’m super tan so it’s bizarre to see the redness so easily), a feeling of flushing unprovoked, red cracked eyes are my most easily noticeable symptoms.
 
GreenMachineX said:
My hands and face turn bright red easily (and I’m super tan so it’s bizarre to see the redness so easily), a feeling of flushing unprovoked, red cracked eyes are my most easily noticeable symptoms.
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There are bacterial species that can turn histadine into histamine. I think you are going to be one of those people in the "resistant" groups that don't see much improvement from just getting the basics of gut health, right. The complicated ones.
 
I have felt candida die off (or what I thought was that from the symptoms I had) when I started pro-biotics. However, I bought 6 months of gut health and it makes me feel so overwlemingly terrible (flu like with paranoia) over 1-2 weeks use - that I had to stop. I have tried twice - first time thinking it may have been something else or something else in combination. Any thoughts on this?
 
Ptlhains said:
I have felt candida die off (or what I thought was that from the symptoms I had) when I started pro-biotics. However, I bought 6 months of gut health and it makes me feel so overwlemingly terrible (flu like with paranoia) over 1-2 weeks use - that I had to stop. I have tried twice - first time thinking it may have been something else or something else in combination. Any thoughts on this?
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Gut Health is overwhelmingly popular for the vast majority of people. The very first version of it gave me minor cold symptoms, everytime, which was 3 times. The 2nd version did not. Now, he is on the 4th or 5th version.

The bacteria, themselves, can directly communicate with the vagal nerve straight to the brain, then back to the gut (plus, they release stuff that also can).

The understanding of this, especially on the outliers/non-responders/anti-responders/whatever you want to call it is still in its infancy.
 
Par Deus said:
Gut Health is overwhelmingly popular for the vast majority of people. The very first version of it gave me minor cold symptoms, everytime, which was 3 times. The 2nd version did not. Now, he is on the 4th or 5th version.

The bacteria, themselves, can directly communicate with the vagal nerve straight to the brain, then back to the gut (plus, they release stuff that also can).

The understanding of this, especially on the outliers/non-responders/anti-responders/whatever you want to call it is still in its infancy.
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Gonna have to ditch the gut health I guess. I was using a pro-biotic for about 8 months called 'Hyperbotics Better Body' with good results:
Proprietary Probiotic Blend
B. breve, L. plantarum, B. lactis, L. gasseri, L. paracasei, L. rhamnosus		5 Billion CFU†*
White Kidney Bean Extract†† (Phaseolus Vulgaris)500 mg*
Orafti P95 Prebiotic (FOS)50 mg
I was very obese much of my life, but am at about 18% bodyfat and have been no higher than 23% bodyfat for over 20 years (I am 51 years of age). I don't use any stimulants, don't drink or smoke, eat pretty clean and don't use anabolics. However, I used to treat mysef pretty bad. In light of gut health not agreeing with me, do you think I should stick with Better Body or something else? Ty for your opinion...
 
Ptlhains said:
Gonna have to ditch the gut health I guess. I was using a pro-biotic for about 8 months called 'Hyperbotics Better Body' with good results:
Proprietary Probiotic Blend
B. breve, L. plantarum, B. lactis, L. gasseri, L. paracasei, L. rhamnosus		5 Billion CFU†*
White Kidney Bean Extract†† (Phaseolus Vulgaris)500 mg*
Orafti P95 Prebiotic (FOS)50 mg
I was very obese much of my life, but am at about 18% bodyfat and have been no higher than 23% bodyfat for over 20 years (I am 51 years of age). I don't use any stimulants, don't drink or smoke, eat pretty clean and don't use anabolics. However, I used to treat mysef pretty bad. In light of gut health not agreeing with me, do you think I should stick with Better Body or something else? Ty for your opinion...
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I'm a don't break it if it isn't broke type. If that one is working for you, good deal.

But, 5 billion CFU is tiny (50-100 is more what you are looking for -- or, should, they are not a huge part of the cost of raws at all.

The phaseolus is just bean fiber. Good for you. Fine.

50mg of FOS is preposterous.
 
_Endure_ said:
^ Seems like trying to get any info on these products is sparse at best. Not sure why.
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I’m with you on his. I’m interested in these products bc the nutrition panel of each is pretty awesome. However, there’s virtually no reviews or reputation of this company online. When you google the company name, they don’t even come up
 
You have to go through a retailer... again they should pop up in the search as I'm not sure it's kosher to say without them being a board sponsor etc. You can buy it.
 
I've dealt with bloating/belching for the past decade that I have not been able to treat. Probably have tried every pharmaceutical OTC and RX under the sun (including rifaxamin), probiotics, etc. I've noticed it gets worse during stressful times but then doesn't return to baseline, and stimulants seem to exacerbate it.

Anyways, I just bought the stack from DPS and got it in today. Will run Shock Therapy for 10 days, and the follow up with the Suprabiotic and Primer. Let's see how it does!
 
Par Deus said:
Predator Nutrition has it. Don't know if they just serve the european part of the American Commonwealth or the rest of yall, too.
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Predator is fkin expensive, perhaps try to expand in EU with other UK/EU retailers.

I'll for sure recommend you to my usual UK store and hope they start carrying your products.
 
Duywayne said:
I've dealt with bloating/belching for the past decade that I have not been able to treat. Probably have tried every pharmaceutical OTC and RX under the sun (including rifaxamin), probiotics, etc. I've noticed it gets worse during stressful times but then doesn't return to baseline, and stimulants seem to exacerbate it.

Anyways, I just bought the stack from DPS and got it in today. Will run Shock Therapy for 10 days, and the follow up with the Suprabiotic and Primer. Let's see how it does!
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I am gonna say that until I stopped taking stims (I currently drink 2-3 coffee's a day only) and managed my stress - my gut did not start to heal no matter what I did otherwise to get it to heal. Good luck bro....
 
Ptlhains said:
I am gonna say that until I stopped taking stims (I currently drink 2-3 coffee's a day only) and managed my stress - my gut did not start to heal no matter what I did otherwise to get it to heal. Good luck bro....
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Thanks man. I consume maybe 150 to 200mg caffeine per day (coffee and energy drinks) but managing stress is the real battle. Anyways I'm trying the stack, not expecting a cure or really for it to do anything but will report back at the end and let you guys know how it does. I'm on day 3 of the Shock Therapy and so far all I've noticed is I spend the first hour after taking it burping up methol lol. Almost like I swallowed a cough drop. Is this meant to be on an empty stomach or does it not matter?
 
Duywayne said:
Thanks man. I consume maybe 150 to 200mg caffeine per day (coffee and energy drinks) but managing stress is the real battle. Anyways I'm trying the stack, not expecting a cure or really for it to do anything but will report back at the end and let you guys know how it does. I'm on day 3 of the Shock Therapy and so far all I've noticed is I spend the first hour after taking it burping up methol lol. Almost like I swallowed a cough drop. Is this meant to be on an empty stomach or does it not matter?
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On Shock Therapy, my thoughts were that I could see reasons for with meals or empty stomach having its advantages, so I didn't specify. I figure most people take with meals out of habit unless a product intended for empty stomach. Pre/Probiotics themselves should definitely be as part of meal (or at least protein shake size snacks)

Also, in regard to stimulants/stress and the gut. Stimulants literally recreate a big chunk of the stress response. And signalling in the gut-brain axis is bidirectional communication as far as stress and gut dysbiosis. Stress pathways directly make the gut worse (and the gut makes the brain part of the stress axis worse, so vicious circle. Huge correlations between anxiety/stress related parameters and IBS.
 
Interested in giving these a try, but I’ll hold my hands up and say I’m prone to drinking a few beers once or twice a week. What kind of harm is that doing to my digestion and will it kind of make this supplementation pointless?
 
UKG said:
Interested in giving these a try, but I’ll hold my hands up and say I’m prone to drinking a few beers once or twice a week. What kind of harm is that doing to my digestion and will it kind of make this supplementation pointless?
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Alcohol is definitely bad on the gut -- literally on all of inflammation, dysbiosis, and decreased barrier integrity (i.e. "leaky gut"). Obviously, similar to alcohol in general where a couple is not a problem, but lots is. People who drink alcohol, regularly, need pre/probiotics more than those who do not.
 
Par Deus said:
Alcohol is definitely bad on the gut -- literally on all of inflammation, dysbiosis, and decreased barrier integrity (i.e. "leaky gut"). Obviously, similar to alcohol in general where a couple is not a problem, but lots is. People who drink alcohol, regularly, need pre/probiotics more than those who do not.
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Ok, thank you for the swift response. I’ll get on it when I’m back off hols. So it’s shock therapy followed by supribiotic?
Can these be stacked with mild PHs or natural anabolics or should I let this kick in first?
PS, I’m slightly in awe of anyone who has the knowledge and means to put these product out for consumption. Hope it’s worth my faith
 
UKG said:
So it’s shock therapy followed by supribiotic?
Can these be stacked with mild PHs or natural anabolics or should I let this kick in first?
PS, I’m slightly in awe of anyone who has the knowledge and means to put these product out for consumption. Hope it’s worth my faith
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Yeah, you take the full bottle of Shock Therapy before switching to the probiotic/prebiotic. Combining with PH/androgens and basically anything is fine (obviously introduces variables on body composition, but wouldn't interfere with anything )
 
UKG said:
Ok, thank you for the swift response. I’ll get on it when I’m back off hols. So it’s shock therapy followed by supribiotic?
Can these be stacked with mild PHs or natural anabolics or should I let this kick in first?
PS, I’m slightly in awe of anyone who has the knowledge and means to put these product out for consumption. Hope it’s worth my faith
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I've noticed quite a bit of GI disruption when consuming oral hormonal compounds, it goes away once coming off but during on times you definitely notice it. That was just me, FYI.
 
Par Deus said:
Yeah, you take the full bottle of Shock Therapy before switching to the probiotic/prebiotic. Combining with PH/androgens and basically anything is fine (obviously introduces variables on body composition, but wouldn't interfere with anything )
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Is shock therapy okay to take with another product that contains menthol? Specifically, evomuse dcp which contains 30mg of additional menthol/day - Here is the ingredient label if you aren’t familiar. Invalid Link Removed
 
mavup said:
Is shock therapy okay to take with another product that contains menthol? Specifically, evomuse dcp which contains 30mg of additional menthol/day - Here is the ingredient label if you aren’t familiar. Invalid Link Removed
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Yeah, that would be fine.
 
Ape McGrapes said:
@Par Deus What is your opinion on treatments for Chronoc Constipation/IBS-C? I've tried a few different probiotics, digestive enzymes, bitters etc. Little to no relief.

Found this interesting
Invalid Link Removed
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Senna- can be uncomfortable but works.
Stay hydrated!!! (To point that you piss every hour)
Grease the tracks as well- aloe juice, mineral oil
And finally,
"Oxi-mag" or magnesium ozonite, which made my poops so bug and fluffy that even if it took 2-3 days to poop at least it came out easy. But filled the bowl. Sorry for tge descriptions but when you are really dealing with this stuff descriptors help to know if a product will help w your specific issues.
I think oxi-mag should be used by anyone w constipation issues. Also helps cleanse the system.
 
Also, VSL3 you can get w/out a prescription and it is crazy expensive but works very well amd is prolly best probiotic out there after learning how they Truly* work in the body and where they go and theur functions etc most of the stuff you buy is worthless. Not vsl #3 tho.
 
chemjr said:
Also, VSL3 you can get w/out a prescription and it is crazy expensive but works very well amd is prolly best probiotic out there after learning how they Truly* work in the body and where they go and theur functions etc most of the stuff you buy is worthless. Not vsl #3 tho.
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Isn’t the actual real deal Visbiome now? The guy who had the OG patent used to have his formula in VSL3 but left and things got messy so it’s currently only in Visbiome I believe. VSL3 now uses an imitation from my understanding.
 
Reviews so far..

Finished up the Shock Therapy, can't say it did much. Happy to be off of it as the menthol in the product burned and gave quite a bit of discomfort. Did that for 10 days and now I'm using the probiotic/prebiotic stack. I noticed when I first started using it was doing 5 capsules probiotic with 4 scoops of the prebiotic. Whenever I used the combination I had one major problem: gas. It was like non stop just bloat, pass, and repeat. I tested it a few times by taking the probiotic without the prebiotic and the problem went away. I added the prebiotic and bam, gas city. I reduced the down prebiotic to two scoops now, still having the bloat but not as bad.

On a side note, I have been leaning out which I know that this is something stack was supposed to do, so its a nice benefit. Still a couple weeks to go.
 
5 capsules a day? Aren’t you only supposed to do 1-2 a day? It’s a potent probiotic so you might be overdoing it on that front.
 
GreenMachineX said:
How long? Any effects yet?
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Only been on about 5 days. I know that as of now I have no complaints. No bloat issue for me. Not extra gassy. Digestion overall seems good. The first few days bowel movements were more like diharea, but now they aren't diharea, and they aren't large bowel movements either (good food absorbtion). My wife may be having the bloat/gas issue, but I eat overall better than her, and she came off antibiotics, so may be why she seems to have more initial sides.
 
Yes according to Par Deus its 5 capsules per day, but you can reduce down the dose if you want.

Bloat is only when combining with the prebiotic product, if I take just the probiotic capsules I dont get the bloat/gas side effects.
 
I also have a lot of bloat issues and when i took a probiotic the bloating and pain got even worse, probably from what presume was candida die off. I then i took a digestive enzyme and pain and bloating went way down. perhaps many of us suffering from bad gut biome also not producing enough natural enzymes. I want to test this idea with a round of different enzymes notably entric coated serrapeptase for 6 months which is known to digest scar and necrotic tissue. Prehaps our gall bladers are backed up and not releasing its full powers into our gi tract.
 
Duywayne said:
On a side note, I have been leaning out which I know that this is something stack was supposed to do, so its a nice benefit. Still a couple weeks to go.
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A lot of people need to ramp up dosing with prebiotics/fiber until the body adjusts to avoid excess gas.
 
Perseusdeus said:
I also have a lot of bloat issues and when i took a probiotic the bloating and pain got even worse, probably from what presume was candida die off. I then i took a digestive enzyme and pain and bloating went way down. perhaps many of us suffering from bad gut biome also not producing enough natural enzymes. I want to test this idea with a round of different enzymes notably entric coated serrapeptase for 6 months which is known to digest scar and necrotic tissue. Prehaps our gall bladers are backed up and not releasing its full powers into our gi tract.
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Producing enzymes is something that probiotics eventually help with, so I definitely wouldn't be shocked if that is a big part of dysbiosis for a lot of people.
 
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