BlockBuilder
Well-known member
Yep so does boldanic the company that makes exubol yet it is a very potent product. Iron forged has made some very good products. Looks can be deceiving
Unanswered ecdysterone any experience ?
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Yep so does boldanic the company that makes exubol yet it is a very potent product. Iron forged has made some very good products. Looks can be deceiving
GreenMachineX
Well-known member
True, except this past order directly from Iron Forged’s website still hasn’t shipped and it’s been a week. Order from TGB if your going to try Iron Forged’s for now.
soxbsbll05
Active member
Yeah I am running the Exubol during my next bulk. Have to take 5-6 caps for a full dose though so a bottle only lasts about 15-20 days.
DWeaver
Well-known member
Just out of curiosity, would this benefit someone on TRT?
BeardedBreast
Active member
10 weeks of training on any untrained person will yield at least 2KG of lean body mass
DWeaver
Well-known member
Maybe I’m misreading that but I believe it was given to two groups. Those that workout and those that do not and the non workout group did not see any results. I do not believe the non workout group started working out.
soxbsbll05
Active member
According to studies, ecdy didn't effect anything hormonal on the test subjects so I don't think you should have any issues but I'm not too well versed on TRT since I am not on it.
DWeaver
Well-known member
Gotcha
Danksta710
Active member
Is the new Kre Anabolyn one of your products @Mixelflick ?
Cheeky Monkey
Well-known member
They had four groups of men; three of the groups were already trained athletes and the control group had no training experience at all. The control group saw zero results despite supplementation whereas all three trained groups saw some results at varying levels of ecdy supplementation. The highest dose (48mg) group saw the most pronounced results.
Basically ecdy is banned by WADA so that must mean that it imparts some ergogenic benefits that is not acceptable in organized sports.
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Powercage
Board Sponsor
It doesn't seem to work in humans in any practical sense, unfortunately. Even with the Isenmann study, there is no proof it actually causes body comp changes in actual humans since the situation was not isocaloric or isoproteinic (among other issues with that study). The fact that this hasn't even been remotely shown over the years is discouraging. It would be nice to see some reproducibility under more strict conditions.
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poison
Board Sponsor
Oh look debbie downer shows up to piss on the supp parade!
Yeah I'm skeptical, but the wada thing is interesting.
Powercage
Board Sponsor
lol, yea....damn science. WADA has had it banned for years even based off of insect data, it's a precautionary measure.Oh look debbie downer shows up to piss on the supp parade!
I would love it to work. I tried a ton of different high potency sourcings at mega dosing. Sadly nothing, and the research isn't favourable either.
The problem is that even if it might work, we either have major sourcing issues or it requires mega-dosing to make it effective which makes it cost prohibitive. Neither of which are good situations for the consumer at this stage.
I'd save my money until we get some decent research.
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GreenMachineX
Well-known member
Which brands and products have you tried?
Powercage
Board Sponsor
You name it, I've pretty much tried it. Including Iron Forged.
One of the problems Ive seen with many ecdy products over the years is they are a very real concern for prohormone spiking issues (which explains some of the very adamant anecdotal reports). Tread carefully, my friends.
One of the problems Ive seen with many ecdy products over the years is they are a very real concern for prohormone spiking issues (which explains some of the very adamant anecdotal reports). Tread carefully, my friends.
mbonheur
Active member
Ecdy is not on the WADA list (yet)
Powercage
Board Sponsor
I could have sworn it was on there years ago. Thanks for the update.
mbonheur
Active member
Interestingly enough they used Ecdysone by Peak which claims to have 100mg ecdy from a Spinach Extract. When they tested for the Ecdy content, they only found 6mg of ecdy per capsule. Also no roids or anything else were found. The group which increased their muscle mass according to this study was effectively consuming 48mg of ecdy a day.
All in all, pretty weird study and not sure on which basis they suggest putting it on WADA.
Powercage
Board Sponsor
yea, the entire study is bizarre.
DaeshDontSurf
Member
If you respond like lots of males do to a proven drug (off label clomid for trt), your t levels will be at top of range, or even slightly over - a. that nullifys anything tou think ecdy is doing, and b. why waste money on those other two? its drug that works really well, will not have 1+1+1 - will have 1+0+0
Cheeky Monkey
Well-known member
You know the old adage; if it's too good to be true then it usually is. I don't doubt that ecdy has health promoting or athletic enhancing abilities but nothing that a good diet, sound sleep, and solid training cannot replicate.
soxbsbll05
Active member
I think the key here is the source of where the ecdy is coming from. As with any supplement product out there, there are many shady companies willing to blatantly lie on the label to make a quick buck. Many ecdy products out there but there seems to be only 2-3 brands that are actually truthful in what they put in their product.
slickwillie
Member
That is disturbing to hear. Any published reports of particular brands to be wary of?
Mixelflick
Active member
I highly recommend purchasing the full study, such that you can see the extent to which these researchers went to in order to achieve an objective finding. There will be no dismissing this as junk science. Just today, I read a thread on here about a study showing CLA grows muscle/burns fat. It does nothing of the sort, not in the real world. This is different, a LOT different.
They tested the product for its claimed contents. They tested it for banned/prohibited substances. They tested the subjects for banned substances. They dotted every I and crossed off every T. And they left no doubt as to their findings, summing up their conclusions as follows..
“Our results strongly suggest including ecdysterone in class S1 “Anabolic Agents".
Folks, take it from me: It isn't cheap to test for these compounds/their metabolites. WADA isn't in the business of adding another PED to test for just for fun. It's expensive. Other than that there isn't much to say. Except that there is no ad copy I can dream up that speaks louder than what these researchers found. Today, everyone who used and advocated for Ecdysterone has been vindicated, and in the months and years to come, there will be more to follow..
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Tommywantwingy
New member
Is it possible that people in the past have not had great success with ecdy is because although it can help build muscle by activating ERB it also has the ability to activate ERA which could lead to less AR expression and potentially less testosterone being manufactured by the body. Taking it with an ERA antagoinst may lead to better gains but most coumpounds that are an antagonist or ERA also do the same to ERB. So maybe taking ecdy with an armotase inhibitor would yield better results because any testosterone that would normally be converted to estrogen will not occur so only ecdy will be activating ERA not Ecdy+estrogen. Any thoughts?
GreenMachineX
Well-known member
Interesting thought, and because I’m on TRT on a fixed dose, I wouldn’t see the drop in testosterone perhaps explaining my success with it?
Powercage
Board Sponsor
The good news is, if this is true, reproducibility should be no issue. I'd hold off on vindication just yet as we may have another HMB on our hands. HMB seemed to be the next coming until you realize that even a leucine control mitigates its effects to essentially zero.
But this does give a bit of hope for the product. It will be interesting to see how it plays out. It would be wonderful if we could find another safe supplement that actually works.
megadeth
Active member
If recovering like you are on steroids is worth $85 to you, then YES, it's worth it!(No Bull!)
Powercage
Board Sponsor
It is murine, so far from definitive (and probably unlikely). But the fact that it looks like so many people megadose ecdy is concerning.
There certainly should be safety testing in humans to rule out possible kidney damage from ecdy supplementation. The above study was also Sub Q injection vs oral. So that will have to be taken into account.
GreenMachineX
Well-known member
So what labs should we do on ourselves while we run ecdy?
Powercage
Board Sponsor
I wouldn't spend money on ecdy yet personally. Like I said, I am not convinced by the current research (and having tried numerous products myself I saw nothing, although that is n=1, so you should take that with a grain of salt). There are other studies that have been done in humans where it has shown no change in body comp such as Wilborn 2006. There's something going on here; we haven't been able to identify a mechanism or even replicate positive results.
A colleague of mine pointed out: "ingesting ecdy orally (shown by radioactive labeling in humans) shows that it is ingested in the ileum with bile acids. It gets metabolized in the liver and then excreted in the kidney. Ecdy is too water soluble to be able to systemically enter delivery to muscles, and if you somehow did get around this (nobody has), it may not even do anything."
Also as I mentioned, there are too many bunk/tainted ecdy products on the market, so health risks are somewhat of a crap shoot. There is no real testing standard for third party labs, that's how sketchy ecdy currently is. Price tag is too high for too little return at the moment.
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BigGame84
Well-known member
Any place in the US that sells this? Seems like only available in the UK.
megadeth
Active member
Make sure you follow the direction on the label.
Invalid Link Removed
Suggested Use:
* For targeted athletic and recovery benefits, take 4-8 capsules immediately prior and post exercise, and/or before sleep with 10 oz of juice (cherry/tart styles being best) or water.
I think he has changed the suggestion to immediately prior, mid-workout and post workout.
* For peak nutrition optimization and to boost cellular repair, muscle recovery, protein synthesis and anti-aging/life enhancement benefits, take 2-4 capsules 10 minutes before meals.
mbonheur
Active member
I have read the full article and they used Ecdysone by Peak, which is an underdosed spinach extract product that has been discontinued. It does not meet the label claims at all and the results that lead to their conclusion is based on an oral ingestion of 48mg ecdy. The full study is pretty weirdly designed and I am not sold on it. Can't believe that Wada will follow their suggestion.
Mixelflick
Active member
Sorry for the late reply, I don't come here very often..
The answer is no, Kre-Anabolyn is not my product. I was consulted on the ecdysterone source way back when, and it's the same high quality Rhaponticum Carthamoides Extract as found in Synthagen (a product I do have a vested interest in).
Both are produced by the same company, which has a 25 year history with Ecdy going back to the original ZOE Discoveries Zebutol..
GreenMachineX
Well-known member
You must’ve missed my comments and reviews on ecdy because I had amazing success with it. Price tag was high, yes, but compared to running anything else natural for only a little more? And actually getting enhanced results? Nothing else natural came close.
Powercage
Board Sponsor
I didnt miss them. I dont put stock in anecdote. There are a lot of reasons you could believe something works. I think it’s irresponsible to promote something with so many issues and so little research backing. That may change in the future if better research is presented.
This is the supplement world, if it sounds too good to be true, it likely is. That latest study showed a nearly 10kg increase in bench. Come on...
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GreenMachineX
Well-known member
Iron Forged is what worked for me.