Unanswered Which compounds have the least andro sides?

PHOTOSnFIBERS said:
Well i prefer to follow the law, i have a family who depends on me so im not willing to take chances. It's why 100mg or 600mg, as long as my doc wrote the scrip im good. But nice try.
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In the US the only ones you’re getting are Anavar and Deca Durabolin. Not sure if Durabolin itself is still in use, though. Deca is, for sure.

Durabolin and Deca Durabolin are two different drugs, legally.

You might also be able to get a prescription for HGH and with your doctors presumed attitude about hormone optimization, I would suspect you could get the script for a dose as high as maybe 6iu per day.

You might also get a prescription for hexarelin, ibutamoren, anamorelin, ipamorelin or other GH releasing peptides.

Most of us have families whom depend upon us.
 
hairygrandpa said:
Proviron is purely androgenic, zero anabolic. Most people don't grasp the importance of the androgenic part of roids, fearing hair loss and whatever.
Androgens are the "manly-makers" in roids, giving you confidence a harder physique, more vascularity, more libido and aggression. They make you a male, so to speak. Trying to avoid them is IMHO dumb, unless you are a feminist.
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Oh don't get me started on feminists 🤯 but yes i found a video a while back where a guy (doctor?) on TY mentions DHT actually enhances the CNS, ie strength. I keep my hair at a 1 anyway, no worries there.
 
The law certainly doesn’t stop me from using steroids, smoking cannabis, owning automatic rifles, shooting off fireworks, drinking in public, having sex in public, or any other things someone who loves freedom might do.


Not that I actually do those things... 😅
 
PHOTOSnFIBERS said:
Oh don't get me started on feminists 🤯 but yes i found a video a while back where a guy (doctor?) on TY mentions DHT actually enhances the CNS, ie strength. I keep my hair at a 1 anyway, no worries there.
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Well, I didn't know Proviron is illegal in US. No DHT for you, meaning no boners, no enhanced CNS, no garden hose like veins... The government knows whats good for you. ;)
 
hairygrandpa said:
Well, I didn't know Proviron is illegal in US. No DHT for you, meaning no boners, no enhanced CNS, no garden hose like veins... The government knows whats good for you. ;)
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It’s a bummer. The FDA never approved a lot of good stuff.

Wait... dht is what causes the great big oversized bicep veins? I never knew that. You learn something new every day.

I suppose if you think about it, that makes sense. You see the biggest garden hose veins on guys who use a lot of primo and halotestin...
 
Oh! You might also get your doc to prescribe T3 or t4 or both such as Armour Thyroid.
 
Old Witch said:
It’s a bummer. The FDA never approved a lot of good stuff.

Wait... dht is what causes the great big oversized bicep veins? I never knew that. You learn something new every day.

I suppose if you think about it, that makes sense. You see the biggest garden hose veins on guys who use a lot of primo and halotestin...
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DHT derivatives in general let veins pop, also PDE-5 inhibitors and insulin. BUT, you can't substitute proviron with, say, anavar. Not the same effect, especially on libido. More close is masteron. I suspect that potassium does have an effect on "veinyness", while sodium does the opposite. I'm still researching.... fiddling around with all of this. So far, Insulin is a game changer, that I'm sure.
 
Old Witch said:
The law certainly doesn’t stop me from using steroids, smoking cannabis, owning automatic rifles, shooting off fireworks, drinking in public, having sex in public, or any other things someone who loves freedom might do.


Not that I actually do those things... 😅
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I do -but I live in a third world country where its also forbidden (beside roids) -but fixed with a small pay-off.
 
hairygrandpa said:
DHT derivatives in general let veins pop, also PDE-5 inhibitors and insulin. BUT, you can't substitute proviron with, say, anavar. Not the same effect, especially on libido. More close is masteron. I suspect that potassium does have an effect on "veinyness", while sodium does the opposite. I'm still researching.... fiddling around with all of this. So far, Insulin is a game changer, that I'm sure.
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Well, yeah, make veins pop is one thing, but the overall trend for the diameter of them to grow on cycle is what I meant. GH makes them longer, it doesn’t make them bigger so I had always wondered what made them turn into hoses. I just always figured it was genetic and either happens or it doesn’t. This has me reading some things about dht and blood vessels.

As far as subs for Proviron, I think primobolan would be closest. Both extremely active with shbg.
 
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Pm me with any questions about anything I’ve said here.

Let’s not cloud up this guy’s thread too much, he already trusts his boutique doctor more than the fda dosage/safety information.
 
Old Witch said:
Anyone who is a beginner to steroids ought to watch the Anabolic Doc channel on YouTube for a dose of reality before they go trying to become Superman. You can’t just walk around with supraphysiological levels of test 24/7/365 and get away with it scot free. You absolutely will have health problems, and actually relatively soon.


He doesn’t know everything, or get it 100% right, because he isn’t one of us actually using it, he can only go off what he’s told. Just like any other doctor. He is just one of the few very knowledgeable ones.
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An interesting claim made here by Old Witch, and ironically he/she mentions i should go watch this YT channel, the Anabolic Doc. I have been subbed to this guy for a while now actually, and i thought i remembered a video where he discussed how different T doses can have drastically different outcomes per person. Sure enough, the info is there for all to hear.

Im glad you gave the Anabolic Doc such credit, unfortunately he disagrees with your prior statements. You are suggesting my 300g/w will put me in supraphysiological levels and that any doc who prescribes that must be unethical, i was saying im going to wait till the lab tests come back in 4mo to know what my levels really are.

At the 1:45 mark he gets the first question, somebody asking about T spikes with different esters and if he needs to worry about the yoyo effect. The .AD. goes on to say genetics plays a huge part in how esters are metabolized, which affects how the body absorbs them and how they dissipate.

He also says he has men who take 200mg every other day, which would be 700mg per week average (more than double mine) and has a TT level of 800. He also says another guy takes .3ML a week (about 65mg) and also has 800. Now even if we go with those numbers as the low points (nadir as he mentions on the .3ML patient), for cypionate it's a half life of about a week, so at most they are double that at their peak.

Surely the Anabolic Doc who you speak so highly of wouldn't be doing anything unethical right? How could he possibly be prescribing guys 700mg/w and it be safe, according to your cruze and blast stats? According to your 'guru' he's prescribing some men 700mg a week who are still in the safe zone. I think some of the members around here aren't quite as knowledgeable as they think they are. For a wake up call Mr Witch, start at 1:45 on the video below. Time to go back to school.

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He didn’t say those are prescribed doses, fella. He has guys on gear with issues coming to him all the time.


Must be some good crack in your neighborhood.
 
Old Witch said:
He didn’t say those are prescribed doses, fella. He has guys on gear with issues coming to him all the time.


Must be some good crack in your neighborhood.
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It doesn't matter if they are prescribed or not, he specifically states he has some men on 700mg/w and other men on 65mg/w and both have the same nadir T level of 800. You are back peddling bc you were proven wrong after boasting about your "knowledge", the guy you actually referenced explains that two people with greater than 10x difference in dosing can have the same level of TT.

You are making excuses and by the way, that is libel, saying that the doc is giving unethical and non prescription based T doses. He says it plain as day, two men can have drastically different doses and come out the same TT. It doesn't matter if it's prescribed or not, it's a biological variance and one you were proven wrong about.

Hows that for a dose of reality eh?
 
Yes, some magical man who only absorbs 1ng per mg of test injected.

Those are not real world numbers, no matter how much you’d like to think otherwise. These doctors (He and Doc McClain) throw out random fictitious numbers as examples all the time.

Anabolic Doc is known as “The Career Killer” because “When men come to me, they know I’m not going to let them keep taking those doses.”

So no, you’re wrong, because yet again you lack the cognitive abilities to actually understand the information presented.

Good day. And good luck.
 
Old Witch said:
Yes, some magical man who only absorbs 1ng per mg of test injected.

Those are not real world numbers, no matter how much you’d like to think otherwise. These doctors (He and Doc McClain) throw out random fictitious numbers as examples all the time.

Anabolic Doc is known as “The Career Killer” because “When men come to me, they know I’m not going to let them keep taking those doses.”

So no, you’re wrong, because yet again you lack the cognitive abilities to actually understand the information presented.

Good day. And good luck.
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ROFL oh so now it's fictitious? LOL dude you are amazing, your powers of denial are on da juice. Amazing moving goalposts too, first you cite the Anabolic Doc for noobs to hormone use, then you tear him down and reduce his reliability to made up stories.

So you were suggesting people go learn from a Doctor on youtube that makes up stories? That's really bad advice dude, one might call it unethical. Again, Occam's razor, i think the more logical explanation is you were simply wrong, that there is a massive variation in how human's absorb and metabolize T.

You were wrong, welcome to reality.
 
What you’re discussing now is required dose to get to optimal levels thru trt. Maybe,possibly, out of 2938372773 someone could need 800mg okay LOL. but you do realize that 150mg to get to let’s say 1000 or 700 to get to 1000 is gonna be the fucking same except one is gonna be a lot more taxing on your body? Anyways a couple days ago you were arguing about why not being in the 2000-3000 range if my body can take it while this isn’t what this doc is talking about at ALL when he’s saying someone needs 800mg to get to TRT LEVELS. You make no fucking sense at all.
 
Old Witch said:
Yes, some magical man who only absorbs 1ng per mg of test injected.

Those are not real world numbers, no matter how much you’d like to think otherwise. These doctors (He and Doc McClain) throw out random fictitious numbers as examples all the time.

Anabolic Doc is known as “The Career Killer” because “When men come to me, they know I’m not going to let them keep taking those doses.”

So no, you’re wrong, because yet again you lack the cognitive abilities to actually understand the information presented.

Good day. And good luck.
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Now go to the 7:00 mark and he's talking about BB who do cycles, and he says, in an answer about blast n cruise, most guys who are cruising are on 400-600mg per week. That's up to double what my dose is, and im 255 right now FYI. Lets keep going in the vid shall we? This is good stuff, you are learning a lot, good school day for you.
 
You’re very toxic for someone who was asking what compounds had less Andro sides 2 days ago... damn lol
 
Mathb33 said:
What you’re discussing now is required dose to get to optimal levels thru trt. Maybe,possibly, out of 2938372773 someone could need 800mg okay LOL. but you do realize that 150mg to get to let’s say 1000 or 700 to get to 1000 is gonna be the fucking same except one is gonna be a lot more taxing on your body? Anyways a couple days ago you were arguing about why not being in the 2000-3000 range if my body can take it while this isn’t what this doc is talking about at ALL when he’s saying someone needs 800mg to get to TRT LEVELS. You make no fucking sense at all.
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Yea my point was people are in a range, so how do you know i won't be on the high end? You guys know nothing about me, but i was called a moron, i was personally attacked and name called and why? Because you somehow know what range metabolically i will be?

So tell me, how did the new guy know what the truth is and all you educated guys get it wrong? Im not saying i will be at 800, i never said that, i said it's impossible to know what my levels will be. In response every one of you were telling me i was on a cruse dose or even a blast does. YOU DON"T KNOW, get it?
 
I never said I knew anything about you. My point was no doctor would straight away put someone on 300 mg. Docs go from low to high and adjust. They don’t go let’s put that mofo on 300 and if he’s 3 times normal range ahh **** it we ll see from there. That’s all I said and I still think the same
 
Mathb33 said:
You’re very toxic for someone who was asking what compounds had less Andro sides 2 days ago... damn lol
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No, toxic is attacking somebody and insulting them bc they didn't just take your word for it. Im glad i didn't, i might have already contacted my doc and had him lower my dose. You guys don't know as much as you thought you did, and now you are calling me names for it again. Toxic? How bout the people throwing around insults on a forum?
 
Mathb33 said:
I never said I knew anything about you. My point was no doctor would straight away put someone on 300 mg. Docs go from low to high and adjust. They don’t go let’s put that mofo on 300 and if he’s 3 times normal range ahh **** it we ll see from there. That’s all I said and I still think the same
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Haaaaa no back peddling for you either, here is what you said, this is a quote.

"hey just explained what a range is... and 300mg test a week is NOT part of the trt dosing range. Nobody is gonna NEED freaking 300mg oftest at 120 lbs or 300 lbs to get around optimal levels (because that’s what trt is for, to get someone to optimal levels around 900-1000 so he lives a healthy life) Now if you and your doctor wanna put you in the 2000-3000s and mitigate the long term damage that’s another story. Just please stop trying to convince yourself that it’s gonna be a trt dose lol it’s not."

Note how you didn't say, it's a range as the beginning TRT, you simply said it's not "part of the TRT dosing range". Well the Anabolic Doc, who Mr Witch thinks is one of the few smart ones, disagrees with you. That's the problem with forums, what you say is still there for all to read, and now people reading this thread can see you guys eating your feet.

You were wrong, stop back peddling and be a man and admit it. You said 300mg/w is not, oops, 'NOT' part of the dosing range. Well, i guess it is eh? Nobody needs 300mg? The AD said there are people who take more than twice that and are still 800 at the nadir. Welcome to reality, throw out that forum bro science dude, it's making you look dumb.
 
PHOTOSnFIBERS said:
Now go to the 7:00 mark and he's talking about BB who do cycles, and he says, in an answer about blast n cruise, most guys who are cruising are on 400-600mg per week. That's up to double what my dose is, and im 255 right now FYI. Lets keep going in the vid shall we? This is good stuff, you are learning a lot, good school day for you.
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Cruising is not TRT. BB'ler have to keep their muscles when over the genetic limit, hence more test. Also, when he speaks of people pinning 700mg, having 800 total test, he is referring to what BB'lers told him, who might be pinning underdosed UGL gear.
Stop defending your choices. If you like to be on 300, 500 or 650 its up to you. Having a doc prescribing you 300/w is AWESOME! See it like that.
 
Mathb33 said:
You’re very toxic for someone who was asking what compounds had less Andro sides 2 days ago... damn lol
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Just wait til he finds out the doctors get most of their data from us and not the other way around.
 
hairygrandpa said:
Cruising is not TRT. BB'ler have to keep their muscles when over the genetic limit, hence more test. Also, when he speaks of people pinning 700mg, having 800 total test, he is referring to what BB'lers told him, who might be pinning underdosed UGL gear.
Stop defending your choices. If you like to be on 300, 500 or 650 its up to you. Having a doc prescribing you 300/w is AWESOME! See it like that.
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Stop using words like cruising and blasting and TRT, those are irrelevant in this discussion now. My point was that any particular dose doesn't necessarily equate to a specific TT. How many of you told me 300mg/w would put me in supraphysiological levels?

I have simply been saying since the beginning, in two threads now, that we don't know what my TT will be till my bloods next time. It's possible my TT will be 2500, it's possible they will be 400. You don't know and neither do i. Yet people here were so sure of their opinion that i was called a moron, Mr Witch even insulted my wife. Like really? How mature.

So now you all have egg on your face. Play semantics all you want, i was right, there's a huge variance in how each person metabolizes hormones and 300mg/w doesn't automatically equal any particular number.
 
As I said before, the doctor is not always 100% accurate.

Nobody has egg on their face right now but yourself.
 
Old Witch said:
As I said before, the doctor is not always 100% accurate.

Nobody has egg on their face right now but yourself.
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Back peddling is great for the quads. If the doc is not always 100% accurate, then neither are you. Right? So let's get specific, the doc said there is a range of variance that people have in metabolism of T. Are you saying you disagree with this?

Be specific, i get the feeling you are being vague to avoid finding a conclusion here. You say the doc isn't always right, yet you fail to mention where he was wrong. Clearly you are avoiding specifics, so now im asking you. What part is he wrong about?

He said there's a variance in our metabolism of T, some guys take 700mg/w and have the same TT as other guys who take 65mg/w. Are you saying this is untrue?
 
PHOTOSnFIBERS said:
He said there's a variance in our metabolism of T, some guys take 700mg/w and have the same TT as other guys who take 65mg/w. Are you saying this is untrue?
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Yes. That is untrue. There may be an extremely rare individual or two for whom this could maybe possibly be true. However that wide a variance is not supported by any of the known literature about testosterone.
 
The FDA approved dosing for TRT is 50-200mg. Anything outside of that would be an unapproved dosage. That dosage reflects the indications/findings of the known literature.
 
Old Witch said:
Yes. That is untrue. There may be an extremely rare individual or two for whom this could maybe possibly be true. However that wide a variance is not supported by any of the known literature about testosterone.
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Well there's two things you should hear. One, you can't be sure you have been exposed to all known literature, you don't know what you don't know. And two, how do you know im not one of the outliers? You know nothing about me other than the vague stuff i have mentioned, i don't even know if im an outlier.

But that's my point from the beginning, i will wait and see. But before you knew for sure, you insulted 3 people. I think you should step back and reconsider your attitude, you are rude and think you know it all. Clearly you don't.
 
Old Witch said:
The FDA approved dosing for TRT is 50-200mg. Anything outside of that would be an unapproved dosage. That dosage reflects the indications/findings of the known literature.
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So you recommend people who are new to this, go learn from a doc who self admittedly doses people at 3.5x the FDA recommended dose? May as well send them to the local gym dealer, or how bout a shaman down in Brazil?
 
PHOTOSnFIBERS said:
Stop using words like cruising and blasting and TRT, those are irrelevant in this discussion now. My point was that any particular dose doesn't necessarily equate to a specific TT. How many of you told me 300mg/w would put me in supraphysiological levels?

I have simply been saying since the beginning, in two threads now, that we don't know what my TT will be till my bloods next time. It's possible my TT will be 2500, it's possible they will be 400. You don't know and neither do i. Yet people here were so sure of their opinion that i was called a moron, Mr Witch even insulted my wife. Like really? How mature.

So now you all have egg on your face. Play semantics all you want, i was right, there's a huge variance in how each person metabolizes hormones and 300mg/w doesn't automatically equal any particular number.
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I bet my left nut that your levels are above "normal" (400-1000) at 300mg/w. The people you are talking to here on AM are self administering testosterone for years, even decades. Stop telling us what 300mg pharma test will do -or not. Its laughable, seriously.

Have you ever done a google search of: "TRT testosterone prescribed dosages"? You should, your endo too.

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If the first chart looks blurred to you, its because too high blood serum testosterone affects eyesight.
 
So go show those charts to the AD on youtube, and show them to the guy who he gives 700mg/w and see what they say. Your charts are just numbers and averages. There are 8 billion people on earth, you don't know how all of them will responds. If im even on the lower 10% of outliers, im still way under what you guys think i will be on my 300mg.

Just because something works a certain way for you doesn't mean it will for everybody else. You seem to not get that point. So either you are calling the Anabolic Doc a liar, or you admit charts don't apply to everybody. Which is it?
 
PHOTOSnFIBERS said:
So go show those charts to the AD on youtube, and show them to the guy who he gives 700mg/w and see what they say. Your charts are just numbers and averages. There are 8 billion people on earth, you don't know how all of them will responds. If im even on the lower 10% of outliers, im still way under what you guys think i will be on my 300mg.

Just because something works a certain way for you doesn't mean it will for everybody else. You seem to not get that point. So either you are calling the Anabolic Doc a liar, or you admit charts don't apply to everybody. Which is it?
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I’m saying you don’t understand everything that’s being said and where it’s coming from. Doctors are lied to all the time. Scientific studies are controlled.
 
On a side note here i found some of my old blood work and 250mg had me at 2300 3 days after my shot 4 weeks in
 
Old Witch said:
I’m saying you don’t understand everything that’s being said and where it’s coming from. Doctors are lied to all the time. Scientific studies are controlled.
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So again, you are discrediting the anabolic doctor, the guy you previously recommended for noobs here. Why not just cite these "scientific studies" rather than talk up a doctor only to **** on him after that? And studies are only as reliable as the variance of people they test. I have never been in a TRT study, so how can any study tell me exactly how my body will react?
 
One question:

I remember you said (could be I'm wrong) you use pre-filled syringes of Test-cyp, right? How much is in each syringe (ml) ?

PHOTOSnFIBERS said:
So go show those charts to the AD on youtube, and show them to the guy who he gives 700mg/w and see what they say. Your charts are just numbers and averages. There are 8 billion people on earth, you don't know how all of them will responds. If im even on the lower 10% of outliers, im still way under what you guys think i will be on my 300mg.

Just because something works a certain way for you doesn't mean it will for everybody else. You seem to not get that point. So either you are calling the Anabolic Doc a liar, or you admit charts don't apply to everybody. Which is it?
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IMHO? Your endo is either a quack -or he is a medium who could magically foresee that you are a "very special case" needing the double dose of test. Which is it?
And yes, I know how at least half of the 8 billion people will respond to 300mg/w test: By having an enlarged clitoris.
 
hairygrandpa said:
One question:

I remember you said (could be I'm wrong) you use pre-filled syringes of Test-cyp, right? How much is in each syringe (ml) ?



IMHO? Your endo is either a quack -or he is a medium who could magically foresee that you are a "very special case" needing the double dose of test. Which is it?
And yes, I know how at least half of the 8 billion people will respond to 300mg/w test: By having an enlarged clitoris.
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Like i said before, my doc has been doing HRT for over 15 years, and now some bro science dudes on A/M want to cite studies and charts? My doc has real world experience treating thousands of men (and women), and so does the Anabolic Doc on youtube.

You guys are throwing everything you have, insults, back peddling, hyperbole, being vague, all to avoid the glaring truth here. That you don't really know how my body will respond. Skirt around it all you want, you don't know and neither do i. Only my next bloods will tell. My guess is my doc knows what dose is safe for 4 mo and then he will go from there.

So what's wrong with you guys just saying, hey the average guy will have such and such reaction, but we will see on your next bloods? Instead you all were so sure minded that i was insulted. Other than a few reasonable replies, you guys have some real growing up to do.
 
PHOTOSnFIBERS said:
I just looked and they are at 1.5ml.
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You have 1.5ml pre filled Test-cyp syringes, totaling 300mg test.
That means your pharma test is a 200mg x 1ml mixture. I admit it was a trick question. Was hoping to demonstrate that no prescription test is formulated at lets say 300mg/ml. :p
 
You were asking for less androgenic sides -but readily defending 300mg/w test as a TRT approach.
We showed you that most people are on TRT with half that dose. They also have half of the androgenic sides, right?
Its all a bit confusing.
 
I think all you want is us agreeing you could be that guy who need 700mg to be at range? Ok you could! be that 1 guy out of 100000000. It’s funny that you’re trying so hard to show us you could be that guy cause that guy is pobably the unluckiest mofo alive. Yet you’re fighting to show us you’re gonna BE the one.
 
hairygrandpa said:
You have 1.5ml pre filled Test-cyp syringes, totaling 300mg test.
That means your pharma test is a 200mg x 1ml mixture. I admit it was a trick question. Was hoping to demonstrate that no prescription test is formulated at lets say 300mg/ml. :p
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LOL well im not lying, everything i have said is true, even my blood numbers. I would guess some people make stuff up for fun maybe, i don't know, im just not one of them.
 
Mathb33 said:
I think all you want is us agreeing you could be that guy who need 700mg to be at range? Ok you could! be that 1 guy out of 100000000. It’s funny that you’re trying so hard to show us you could be that guy cause that guy is pobably the unluckiest mofo alive. Yet you’re fighting to show us you’re gonna BE the one.
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Im just trying to track down what is true and correct. Just because somebody tells me something here doesn't mean it's correct. How do you determine if new information is true? The common way i would imagine is to gather information from as many sources as you can, find what seems to be the most common answers, and cross reference that with common sense.

In time i will have my own personal experiences to draw on as well.
 
PHOTOSnFIBERS said:
Im just trying to track down what is true and correct. Just because somebody tells me something here doesn't mean it's correct. How do you determine if new information is true? The common way i would imagine is to gather information from as many sources as you can, find what seems to be the most common answers, and cross reference that with common sense.

In time i will have my own personal experiences to draw on as well.
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Why not use that wisdom on your claim? Someone told you to use 300mg/w of test. By special pleading, that somebody must be right, because he is an endo. You dismiss scientific studies and other endos who advocate lesser dosages. You also dismiss opinions of roid-heads who had experience with test when you still were at pre-school. You trust in a youtube celebrity -or better, cherry picked some of his comments, to make a case for your claim.
By your own words, you should consider that, maybe 200mg, would be a better choice. Also less androgenic, right?

BTW, how do you feel? Any positive changes since you are on test? (Besides upped bitchyness on online forums due to aromatizing test) ;)
 
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