Donald Trump running for president

thebigt said:
interesting take on this...my news about the states was very limited during the Reagan years.
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I wasnt even 4 yet when that happened, but I can verify Im an expert, lol just kidding.

What most people dont know is that Bush actually was friends with Hinckley's family for many many years and were even campaign donors.

Another interesting fact is Bush Sr. claimed he couldnt remember where he was when Kennedy was shot.......although he WAS in Dallas that morning!!! He actually called the FBI (confirmed by a FBI memo) claiming he knew who may have shot him, and it was someone he personally knew and of course it wasnt that person officially anyways.

Anyways its a long story but check this out....

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HHHmmmmm......Isreal is alarming sirens in Tel Aviv claiming 2 rockets were fired from Gaza.

Also, there is an election coming up on the 9th.

This is suspicious and concerning.
 
ax1 said:
HHHmmmmm......Isreal is alarming sirens in Tel Aviv claiming 2 rockets were fired from Gaza.

Also, there is an election coming up on the 9th.

This is suspicious and concerning.
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tel aviv is an interesting place. I was there in 78. what stood out to me was the amount of arab street vendors, you would look down a street and see many more arabs than jews. very historic place!!!
 
Israel counterstriked the paradise territory of the Gaza Strip and made it slightly less of a tourist destination than it was the day prior. Both Hamas and Islamic Jihad deny the initial rocket shots. Who knows what happened, but I always try to keep my eyes on these events.
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First my thoughts and 100% atheist prayers to NZ, this post is in no way to degrade what happened there.

So....120 Christians have been slaughtered in Nigeria by Fulani Muslim militants this past week and 52 this past Monday alone surpassing the NZ attack in a single day and this doesnt even make the news. Why?
 
ax1 said:
First my thoughts and 100% atheist prayers to NZ, this post is in no way to degrade what happened there.

So....120 Christians have been slaughtered in Nigeria by Fulani Muslim militants this past week and 52 this past Monday alone surpassing the NZ attack in a single day and this doesnt even make the news. Why?
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When any innocent persons life is taken by the hands of another their should be outrage and mourning. I agree, we should be compassionate to all those lost to senseless violence.

In saying that, these terror attacks in NZ happened approx 200m from my home, and approx 200m from where i was on friday. This kind of stuff just does not happen in NZ, and should not happen anywhere in the world.

What I am proud of is how our police and government responded to the attacks. Our gun laws will be reformed yet again and the immense police presence, not just in Christchurch, but all across the country - outside mosques and churches alike, is truly a show of force and solidarity like no other. All of the victims families will have full access to financial compensation by the way of total funeral cover AND ongoing financial support from our ACC for as long as they need - whether they are a citizen, resident or migrant.
 
Jiigzz said:
When any innocent persons life is taken by the hands of another their should be outrage and mourning. I agree, we should be compassionate to all those lost to senseless violence.

In saying that, these terror attacks in NZ happened approx 200m from my home, and approx 200m from where i was on friday. This kind of stuff just does not happen in NZ, and should not happen anywhere in the world.

What I am proud of is how our police and government responded to the attacks. Our gun laws will be reformed yet again and the immense police presence, not just in Christchurch, but all across the country - outside mosques and churches alike, is truly a show of force and solidarity like no other. All of the victims families will have full access to financial compensation by the way of total funeral cover AND ongoing financial support from our ACC for as long as they need - whether they are a citizen, resident or migrant.
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were the cops armed with guns when confronting the murderer?
 
Jiigzz said:
What I am proud of is how our police and government responded to the attacks. Our gun laws will be reformed yet again and the immense police presence, not just in Christchurch, but all across the country - outside mosques and churches alike, is truly a show of force and solidarity like no other. All of the victims families will have full access to financial compensation by the way of total funeral cover AND ongoing financial support from our ACC for as long as they need - whether they are a citizen, resident or migrant.
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Glad you and your family were safe.

I have a question if you dont mind responding, if you arent in the mood I understand.

How did the shooter get that kind of gun in NZ and how would further gun reform prevent that from happening again? I thought at most people can have are single shot guns.
 
thebigt said:
were the cops armed with guns when confronting the murderer?
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Most definitely. Our police do have access to firearms, but dont carry them on normal policing duty.
 
ax1 said:
Glad you and your family were safe.

I have a question if you dont mind responding, if you arent in the mood I understand.

How did the shooter get that kind of gun in NZ and how would further gun reform prevent that from happening again? I thought at most people can have are single shot guns.
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I thought this too, and have said as much in this thread. As it turns out, our gun laws weren't as tight as we thought - at least not in the way of weapon restriction.

It is hard to obtain a firearms licence but once that is obtained, there are numerous weapons you can legally buy in NZ capable of what the attacker bought.

That will change for sure.
 
Jiigzz said:
I thought this too, and have said as much in this thread. As it turns out, our gun laws weren't as tight as we thought - at least not in the way of weapon restriction.

It is hard to obtain a firearms licence but once that is obtained, there are numerous weapons you can legally buy in NZ capable of what the attacker bought.

That will change for sure.
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I just hope that the Muslims there feel like NZ is totally behind them and that they have a safe home. I think what I saw in the news so far confirms that.
 
Jiigzz said:
I thought this too, and have said as much in this thread. As it turns out, our gun laws weren't as tight as we thought - at least not in the way of weapon restriction.

It is hard to obtain a firearms licence but once that is obtained, there are numerous weapons you can legally buy in NZ capable of what the attacker bought.

That will change for sure.
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are they sure that the gun wasn't smuggled across border with Australia?
 
thebigt said:
are they sure that the gun wasn't smuggled across border with Australia?
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Yeah, he bought the guns here unfortunately.
 
ax1 said:
I just hope that the Muslims there feel like NZ is totally behind them and that they have a safe home. I think what I saw in the news so far confirms that.
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Yeah, me too. Our Prime Minister has been amazing in giving that reassurance
 
thebigt said:
were the cops armed with guns when confronting the murderer?
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What I read is that NZ Police Union have been repeatedly lobbying for better access to guns while simultaneously further restricting it for the citizens.

--------

Jiiggz, do you support police carrying guns and to what extent?
 
ax1 said:
What I read is that NZ Police Union have been repeatedly lobbying for better access to guns while simultaneously further restricting it for the citizens.

--------

Jiiggz, do you support police carrying guns and to what extent?
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Not to carrying weapons, outside of situations like this or times of high treat to the safety of officers.

Police do have access to weapons, and i fully support their need to do so.

That may sound crazy to you guys, but here in NZ, trust and confidence of the public in the police is about 80% which is why the majority of the public are happy with whatever the police deem appropriate.
 
Jiigzz said:
Not to carrying weapons, outside of situations like this or times of high treat to the safety of officers.

Police do have access to weapons, and i fully support their need to do so.

That may sound crazy to you guys, but here in NZ, trust and confidence of the public in the police is about 80% which is why the majority of the public are happy with whatever the police deem appropriate.
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I think its great that there is high confidence and great relationship between the citizens and authorities.

My concern is when it comes to those few low life idiots that when they want to harm the public in mass, how long does it take for the response team to acquire their weapons and afterwards respond to the scene. We are talking situations where seconds can cost lives. Now, this is outside of the armed civilian debate, Im sticking strictly with whats best for law enforcement. Im sure there are police at the station that can quickly respond, but its certainly longer than the response of active on the street/road officer.

If you rethink this, do you now see advantages to having carry on armed law enforcement? Or at least (maybe they do already) have weapons readily accessible in their vehicles? Maybe they already do that, you can inform me.

Hopefully this will never happen again, but predicting the future involves endless hypotheticals. People have different ideas on where to draw the line, and believe me it is far far crossed that here in the US where some police precincts appear to be more powerful that many country's militaries, I think the next step for them is to have portable nukes, lol.
 
ax1 said:
I think its great that there is high confidence and great relationship between the citizens and authorities.

My concern is when it comes to those few low life idiots that when they want to harm the public in mass, how long does it take for the response team to acquire their weapons and afterwards respond to the scene. We are talking situations where seconds can cost lives. Now, this is outside of the armed civilian debate, Im sticking strictly with whats best for law enforcement. Im sure there are police at the station that can quickly respond, but its certainly longer than the response of active on the street/road officer.

If you rethink this, do you now see advantages to having carry on armed law enforcement? Or at least (maybe they do already) have weapons readily accessible in their vehicles? Maybe they already do that, you can inform me.

Hopefully this will never happen again, but predicting the future involves endless hypotheticals. People have different ideas on where to draw the line, and believe me it is far far crossed that here in the US where some police precincts appear to be more powerful that many country's militaries, I think the next step for them is to have portable nukes, lol.
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I truly hope nz police do not need to carry firearms. Most patrol cars have access to firearms if they need them, but they do not carry them.

Not carrying weapons makes police more approachable to the community - and that is what our police are known for and respected for.

When an NZ police officer draws a weapon, their purpose is to shoot the offender. A gun is never pulled on someone unless absolutely required for the safety of others or themselves. US police pull firearms as a means of detainment - im glad our police don't do this.

But rest assured, police have access to firearms if and when the need requires.
 
Gun laws. :fool2:

Lets take them out of the hands of the good people, and just ignore the fact bad guys will not turn theirs in.
Now an unarmed and weakened public. People cant defend themselves, easier for criminals.

Just think about Chicago and how well it worked there.
 
Power-Lift said:
Gun laws. :fool2:

Lets take them out of the hands of the good people, and just ignore the fact bad guys will not turn theirs in.
Now an unarmed and weakened public. People cant defend themselves, easier for criminals.

Just think about Chicago and how well it worked there.
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I find it remarkable that this is a common train of thought from people in the US.
Let's remember key facts here:

The gunman was stopped by police approx 17 minutes after the first shots were reported, despite him leave the first and seconds scenes in that time and being on his way to a third.

The gunman was not apprehended by a member of the public. He may have been deterred from further attack, but he was allegedly on his way to a third site when he was pulled over.

Chicago is near other cities and states with weak gun laws. It is a small place within the continental US. NZ is talking about reforming the entire gun laws of the country, not of the city of Christchurch.

Let's also not skew facts here - the US has had its fair share of horrific mass shootings - not many of which have been stopped by members of the public, despite its gun laws.

What i love is the blind adherent to logic that gun control doesn't work, and in fact it is actively discouraged. I guess Australia disagrees with that sentiment. They've had pretty good success with gun control law reform, as seen in the video below:

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And this one:

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But hey, to each their own. Just know that most kiwis are fully prepared and are happy for tighter gun control for the safety of the country. Sometimes it takes a little personal sacrifice for the better of everyone else ;)
 
In the US we can 100% ban guns but then the CIA and FBI along with other interests will supply it to all the gangs that comply with the system, so forgetaboutit. Serious. They will send them to NZ too if there was a political agenda no problem.

Guns save lives and there are many stories you dont even get to see because good stories dont help ratings and political agendas. Fortunately most of these mass shootings which is actually extremely rare and tiny scale in a country of 300 million (its all blow out of proportion by the media) and mass border issues. Most of the shootings are from people either on prescription meds, gangs (war on drugs, government empowered violence, and unintended consequences from silly war on drug laws with the combination of the US government being the main importer,) DARPA agents, and other branches of the US government itself, 9/11 being the largest scale attack which of course if pilots on planes were allowed to have guns at that time 9/11 most likely would not have been pulled off unless the remote control/gassing theory was accurate. Run on sentence, lol but Im busy :)
 
I don't know what all the fuss is about for gun laws...I feel much more threatened driving around in my truck than I do about getting shot....there are some truly horrible drivers out there!!!


I say if you get caught driving recklessly the punishment should be having to drive a smart car or fiat for 3 years.
 
Jiigzz said:
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Sent from my SM-G920F using Invalid Link Removed
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Hardly anybody even lives in Australia and they have far less border problems (no borders yippie) so their short term experiment so far looks ok unless their government turns into a bunch of drug dealing terrorists along with many other cultural and complex issues in the USA. Id say not if but when.
 
thebigt said:
I don't know what all the fuss is about for gun laws...I feel much more threatened driving around in my truck than I do about getting shot....there are some truly horrible drivers out there!!!


I say if you get caught driving recklessly the punishment should be having to drive a smart car or fiat for 3 years.
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Getting shot in the USA is statistically almost IMPOSSIBLE!!!!!!!!!!!!!

Dying in a car is far riskier.
 
Jiigzz said:
I find it remarkable that this is a common train of thought from people in the US.
Let's remember key facts here:

The gunman was stopped by police approx 17 minutes after the first shots were reported, despite him leave the first and seconds scenes in that time and being on his way to a third.

The gunman was not apprehended by a member of the public. He may have been deterred from further attack, but he was allegedly on his way to a third site when he was pulled over.

Chicago is near other cities and states with weak gun laws. It is a small place within the continental US. NZ is talking about reforming the entire gun laws of the country, not of the city of Christchurch.

Let's also not skew facts here - the US has had its fair share of horrific mass shootings - not many of which have been stopped by members of the public, despite its gun laws.

What i love is the blind adherent to logic that gun control doesn't work, and in fact it is actively discouraged. I guess Australia disagrees with that sentiment. They've had pretty good success with gun control law reform, as seen in the video below:

Invalid Link Removed

Sent from my SM-G920F using Invalid Link Removed
Click to expand...

No one said he was apprehended by a civilian. But because of the actions of that brave civilian, the killing stopped at that mosque.

When seconds count, the police are only 17 minutes away.
 
ax1 said:
Getting shot in the USA is statistically almost IMPOSSIBLE!!!!!!!!!!!!!

Dying in a car is far riskier.
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prioritizing gun laws over enforcing traffic laws is insane, imo.
 
Jiigzz said:
I find it remarkable that this is a common train of thought from people in the US.
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Why would it be remarkable for US citizens to not want a mass murdering government that for decades has terrorized millions of people around the globe, commits mulitple genocides for decades and decades, creates, funds and arms terrorists regimes? And also domestically terrorizes and threatens the entire population here at gun point simply for people trying to keep the fruits of their labor, brings in gangs, drugs w/ masses of coke and heroin, a government who will assassinate its domestic enemies and journalists, and both bomb and fly planes into buildings and much much more?
 
thebigt said:
if the choice is trump kool aid or what the democrats are up to you had better have lots of cups because i'm drinking a lot of kool aid.
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I'm not talking about the what that phrase has morphed into, I mean actually handing out kool aid like they did in Jonestown, although I guess that was technically Flavor Aid.
 
youngandfree said:
No one said he was apprehended by a civilian. But because of the actions of that brave civilian, the killing stopped at that mosque.

When seconds count, the police are only 17 minutes away.
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You are correct, he was a brave brave man. Who stopped the shooting with out using or carrying a firearm of his own.

Police apprehended him in 17 mins. They were on scene in less than 4 minutes.

Don't be a smartass on facts you clearly havent read up on.

It took hours for police to gun down the San Bernardino shooters after their rampage. Where were all the civvys with guns when this happened?
 
ax1 said:
In the US we can 100% ban guns but then the CIA and FBI along with other interests will supply it to all the gangs that comply with the system, so forgetaboutit. Serious. They will send them to NZ too if there was a political agenda no problem.

Guns save lives and there are many stories you dont even get to see because good stories dont help ratings and political agendas. Fortunately most of these mass shootings which is actually extremely rare and tiny scale in a country of 300 million (its all blow out of proportion by the media) and mass border issues. Most of the shootings are from people either on prescription meds, gangs (war on drugs, government empowered violence, and unintended consequences from silly war on drug laws with the combination of the US government being the main importer,) DARPA agents, and other branches of the US government itself, 9/11 being the largest scale attack which of course if pilots on planes were allowed to have guns at that time 9/11 most likely would not have been pulled off unless the remote control/gassing theory was accurate. Run on sentence, lol but Im busy :)
Click to expand...
Im not going to get into it with you. You clearly have your mind made up, but dont forget that Australia hasn't had a mass shooting since 1996 because they reformed gun laws.
 
thebigt said:
I don't know what all the fuss is about for gun laws...I feel much more threatened driving around in my truck than I do about getting shot....there are some truly horrible drivers out there!!!


I say if you get caught driving recklessly the punishment should be having to drive a smart car or fiat for 3 years.
Click to expand...
So just because cars kill more people, we shouldn't also try stop people from dying from other means?

You should really watch that first video i posted
 
ax1 said:
Hardly anybody even lives in Australia and they have far less border problems (no borders yippie) so their short term experiment so far looks ok unless their government turns into a bunch of drug dealing terrorists along with many other cultural and complex issues in the USA. Id say not if but when.
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Ah, so unless i can find a country with a equal number of people to the US, no argument will ever suffice.

Strong argument, much logic.

"Short term experiment" that has lasted more than 2 decades looks "ok", despite stopping mass shootings entirely.

As they said in the video, "whoop de doo".

If your argument is that the US is unique and no argument used in Australia or NZ applys there, stop trying to apply US logic to NZ and Australia problems.

Let's not forget that less than 3% of active shooters in the US are stopped by a member of the public with a gun. Glad to see that working out well for you guys so far
 
ax1 said:
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Click to expand...
Many countries, including my own and Australia, were colonised by Britain.

What's the point of your argument here?

Btw, all of your arguments against gun control are covered in the first video i posted. You should watch it. It's only a few minutes
 
Jiigzz said:
Im not going to get into it with you. You clearly have your mind made up, but dont forget that Australia hasn't had a mass shooting since 1996 because they reformed gun laws.
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It doesnt really mean its because of the gun reform...the prior big mass shooting above and beyond what happened in 96 was way way back in 1928 without gun reform, perhaps nobody went super bezerk. But as far as I see people want to kill its business as usual and I see rape is been on the climb (overall crime down though :)) in Australia. Its only a matter of time (and I 100% want to be wrong with this) that something will match or surpass '96 shooting and the main cause of the unnecessary deaths will be both the combination of gun control and anti-gun culture just like unfortunately happened in NZ the other day. Was the shooter in '96 taking prescribed anti-depressent drugs? Whats his medical history?

Its mass murder in Australia as usual anyways, they happen all the time. Many people there are violent especially law authorities but Ill get to that later in this post.
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Keep in mind Australia is just like the US and have a "documented" 270 massacres over a period of 140 years since the invasion of the indigenous land and had gone through racial cleansing the past century and clearly are all screwed up, oppressed, have a double digit less life expectancy by the government of Australia in which part of the reason is government tyranny and handling as where the indigenous people are murdered by police and prison authorities, a total of 407 and counting since 1991 and 140 this past decade alone. I would like to ask them how the they feel historically about gun control. (excuse the long run on again, lol)
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Depending on who's shoes your in, for many Australia sounds like a vast shythole,.....not that I dont think most people are cool and damn I would love to visit there some day.

Just have to add final shot at Australia, that government props up mass murder and genocide globally, in particular the middle east. That government is a no good mass murdering machine.
 
Jiigzz said:
Many countries, including my own and Australia, were colonised by Britain.

What's the point of your argument here?

Btw, all of your arguments against gun control are covered in the first video i posted. You should watch it. It's only a few minutes
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Its called learning from its history and not repeating their mistakes.

I know the dude in the video, he is not my cup of tea and is on the extreme left. I used to like him during the Bush years actually, but he ended up being a typical hypocritical liberal and contributed to my political conversion after Obama (who I actually had voted for in 07) took office when all the liberals let me down.

I honestly respect your opinion far greater than the guy in the video, yours is more genuine. John Stewart is an insider.
 
Jiigzz said:
Let's not forget that less than 3% of active shooters in the US are stopped by a member of the public with a gun. Glad to see that working out well for you guys so far
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The USA had terrible and very strict gun laws here, I cant even get a carry on. The public as a whole is oppressed of their 2nd Amendment rights and the gun culture and concepts of self defense have been run over by snowflakes.

So yes, its not working out well. The number is low because good people both cant by law and dont know how to defend themselves. You would want to looks at how the stats are taken as well, I dont care for gang wars (when innocent bystanders are not involved) which often is used to favor the stats. Also, total prevention (completely stopping the mass shooting before a single death...aka not knows as mass shooting) and deterrents are not accounted for in the stats, John is manipulating public perception. Many of these shootings take place in gun free zones where its unlawful for law abiding citizens to have firearms. I still think altough 3% is extremely flawed number and taken out of context its better than 0%.

But really, its almost impossible here in the USA to be shot, dont worry. Its a very safe country. Just dont get in a car and you will be safer.
 
ax1 said:
Was the shooter in '96 taking prescribed anti-depressent drugs? Whats his medical history?
Click to expand...

Ill answer my own question, and just as I suspected and I swear I never looked into this shooter before he had been prescribed Prothiaden, a tricyclic antidepressant.

Side effects:
Hypomania
Delusions
Hallucinations
Anxiety
Ataxia (dunno what that is but sounds spooky so I’ll list it, LOL!)
Restlessness
Excitement

And much more: Invalid Link Removed

I would like to see his entire medical history and find out what else he may have been on, but to me it sounds like Australian doctors created Martin Bryant as the way he was in '96. Im not saying intentionally, but most mass shooters in modern developed places this is excactly the case.
 
ax1 said:
Ill answer my own question, and just as I suspected and I swear I never looked into this shooter before he had been prescribed Prothiaden, a tricyclic antidepressant.

Side effects:
Hypomania
Delusions
Hallucinations
Anxiety
Ataxia (dunno what that is but sounds spooky so I’ll list it, LOL!)
Restlessness
Excitement

And much more: Invalid Link Removed

I would like to see his entire medical history and find out what else he may have been on, but to me it sounds like Australian doctors created Martin Bryant as the way he was in '96. Im not saying intentionally, but most mass shooters in modern developed places this is excactly the case.
Click to expand...

Why not blame water then? Or the sun? You pick out one thing from this person's life and pin the blame on that. Antidepressants are widespread and have helped a lot of people, but some people don't respond or are not properly diagnosed and managed. This is like blaming a chemotherapy drug for somebody that died from stage 4 pancreatic cancer. As for ataxia, that refers to muscle movement and coordination, something that would prevent a shooter from hitting targets.
 
ax1 said:
It doesnt really mean its because of the gun reform...the prior big mass shooting above and beyond what happened in 96 was way way back in 1928 without gun reform, perhaps nobody went super bezerk. But as far as I see people want to kill its business as usual and I see rape is been on the climb (overall crime down though :)) in Australia. Its only a matter of time (and I 100% want to be wrong with this) that something will match or surpass '96 shooting and the main cause of the unnecessary deaths will be both the combination of gun control and anti-gun culture just like unfortunately happened in NZ the other day. Was the shooter in '96 taking prescribed anti-depressent drugs? Whats his medical history?

Its mass murder in Australia as usual anyways, they happen all the time. Many people there are violent especially law authorities but Ill get to that later in this post.
Invalid Link Removed

Keep in mind Australia is just like the US and have a "documented" 270 massacres over a period of 140 years since the invasion of the indigenous land and had gone through racial cleansing the past century and clearly are all screwed up, oppressed, have a double digit less life expectancy by the government of Australia in which part of the reason is government tyranny and handling as where the indigenous people are murdered by police and prison authorities, a total of 407 and counting since 1991 and 140 this past decade alone. I would like to ask them how the they feel historically about gun control. (excuse the long run on again, lol)
Invalid Link Removed
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Invalid Link Removed

Depending on who's shoes your in, for many Australia sounds like a vast shythole,.....not that I dont think most people are cool and damn I would love to visit there some day.

Just have to add final shot at Australia, that government props up mass murder and genocide globally, in particular the middle east. That government is a no good mass murdering machine.
Click to expand...
You are incorrect. In the 18 years prior to the 96 attack there were 13 massacres involving 4 or more people. After 96 their were zilch, nada, zero.

But yeah, not related at all to gun control reform :rollseyes:
 
Jiigzz said:
You are incorrect. In the 18 years prior to the 96 attack there were 13 massacres involving 4 or more people. After 96 their were zilch, nada, zero.

But yeah, not related at all to gun control reform :rollseyes:
Click to expand...

In the link from the post you quoted I counted 12 specific massacres involving 4 or more people since after ‘96. The 3 that were double digits were all from arson so we should look into banning matches and lighters.
 
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