Donald Trump running for president

ax1

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Im more upset that you think an AR15 is going to win a war against the most funded military in the world, but yet you clutch that deluded argument as though it is happening right now.

But hey, if you're happy fighting against reforming laws that could save 36000 lives in the US each year, then you keep fighting tha good fight.

Despite 63 lives senselessly lost in the LA riots, it was worth the 600,000 lives lost to gun violence in the US in the time from 1992-2019. Yep, that kinda logic makes it all worthwhile.
I got a better idea, if you prioritize saving human life you should focus on those mass murdering tyrants in the NZ government contributing to mass genocide in the middle east to disarm.
 

youngandfree

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My argument is that there is nothing an AR can do for the purpose of hunting that a single shot firearm cant also achieve.

The fact you need an AR for hunting is fallacious.
You've never hunted a charging feral pig before that sometimes takes more than one shot to put down. Or a running coyote. But go ahead and keep believing what you want.
 
Jiigzz

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Why should they be illegal? The war on drugs has cost about 2 trillion dollars since it launched, has put countless non-violent offenders in prisons, and fueled most of these mass shootings your so concerned about, has empowered criminal organizations financially, and caused the slaughter and invasion of multiple countries by the US government and CIA in both the Middle East, Central and South America.

What people want to put in their own bodies as long as they dont infringe on the rights of others what business is it for you to tell people what they can or cant do to themselves?

Wanna regulate drugs like food for consumer protection? Ill write off on that.



Why would I or anybody else legalize harming and stealing from other people? If that happens thats what guns are for, self defense. Thats my point, violence is bad, you cant prevent it from all happening but the first line of defense is self defense.

Whatcha talking about Willis? I am shocked you would even consider that that was my logic.



There is nothing wrong with firearms, people enjoy them for sport and self defense. Society having these firearms is just smart, you never know when you have riots/civil unrest, a government coup, foreign invasion....we have it good now but you never know what the future holds and if your not prepared and dont think long term by then its too late. Thats why the 2nd Amendment was put in there in the first place, its good common sense to keep civilians strong and powerful to face the hardships reality can bring us.

Do you know anything about the LA Riots and how Koreans were able to defend for themselves when almost the entire city was in mass chaos and people were left only to defend for themselves?

You go ask those Koreans what their guns are for rather than some spoiled silver spoon fed well nurtured millineal liberal naive twitter burping snowflake tourists strolling around Australian beaches John Oliver was interviewing to try to prove how awesome gun control is.

Its easy to blow down gun rights when in a position in comfort, but during a crisis of social unrest or a war not having proper military grade assault weapons available to the citizens will certainly be far more costly to everyones families.

This is real shyt. Its a powerful statement for the defense of the 2nd amendment.

[video=youtube;tgCiC6qTtjs]https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=tgCiC6qTtjs[/video]





Just as an add on, you do realise that class A drug users are often amongst the highest rate of violent, unpredictable and profilic offenders of crime, right?

People often rob to fuel drug habits. If you've ever worked in law enforcement you'd know the devastating impact of drugs in society. You might think the harm caused is limited to the person ingesting the material but you are far, far off base.

Drugs destroy families. Drugs destroy lives. A lot of violence occurs within the family home which becomes cyclic with children who then often progress into being primary offenders when they get older.

If you haven't been privvy to the world of drugs in this regard, believe me, class A drugs (methamphetamines etc) are a huge driver of crime.
 
ax1

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Despite 63 lives senselessly lost in the LA riots
Yes, I remember as a kid watching on TV people getting beaten to death in the middle of the street, but the smart prepared ones with the big guns survived.
 
Aleksandar37

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So you're just lying now?

VA law says public universities can make regulations banning firearms on campus. Va Tech has policy banning firearms pursuant to the virginia law. To argue that because no one was on the campus carrying a gun to stop a mass shooter proves that "good guys" don't stop mass murderers. ****ing stupid.

Virginia isn't the only state that issues non resident concealed carry permits "without training". In VA you do have to provide a certificate of completion with your application, whether you are a resident or non resident. So technically you received training. Plenty of people take online classes for many different things and are considered trained or educated on that topic. The reason people choose a VA non resident permit is because many other states recognize them. So for someone that travels to many states, it provides them the ability to be licensed to carry concealed. I've got a VA permit, and a non resident Utah permit that covers me in about 38 states. The Utah permit covers me in some states that don't recognize VA permits. It required a 6+ hour classroom and didn't require firearm handling. Prior to me getting a Utah permit, I had a non resident permit from PA. I printed an application, photo copy of VA permit, and a check for $25 and sent it off. Never even had to speak to a person in PA. So feel free to **** on all the other states that do the same thing that VA does.
I'm not lying because I learned in grade school that a university isn't one of the political bodies that pass laws. Universities make rules and policies that come with such sanctions as these stated in Virginia Tech's firearm policy: "Individuals who violate this policy may also be subject to arrest for trespass and/or violation of the appropriate state criminal statute, and/or may be barred from campus. For employees, an act of off-duty violent conduct may be grounds for disciplinary action, up to and including dismissal per applicable personnel policies."

You can say it's a law all you want, but it's a rule. Applebee's can put a no firearms sign in their door, but again that's not passing a law. So, when you shouted that it's the "****ing law" you were incorrect. Rather than checking your info, like usual, you doubled down on false information and now it's just you lying. Otherwise, you'd have to admit that you're one of those proud AR15-carrying Virginians that like to talk big, but don't do **** when it matters because you're afraid of getting kicked off campus.
 
Jiigzz

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You've never hunted a charging feral pig before that sometimes takes more than one shot to put down. Or a running coyote. But go ahead and keep believing what you want.
Yes i have lol. And i didnt need an AR to do it LOL
 
rascal14

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My argument is that there is nothing an AR can do for the purpose of hunting that a single shot firearm cant also achieve.

The fact you need an AR for hunting is fallacious.
I own an AR and 100% agree with you, but it also goes the other way in that I don't think an AR is anymore dangerous than any other semi auto rifle so banning the gun isn't the right answer. But, I'm also not going to throw a fit if they ban ARs because I just don't ****ing need it. Lol

My pistol and shotgun are plenty for self defense and my AR isn't going to do jack against the government. It looks cool, you can do some cool mods to it, and it is what I use to hunt with, but there's other options.
 
Jiigzz

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I got a better idea, if you prioritize saving human life you should focus on those mass murdering tyrants in the NZ government contributing to mass genocide in the middle east to disarm.
Nice strawman lol.
 
ax1

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Just as an add on, you do realise that class A drug users are often amongst the highest rate of violent, unpredictable and profilic offenders of crime, right?

People often rob to fuel drug habits. If you've ever worked in law enforcement you'd know the devastating impact of drugs in society. You might think the harm caused is limited to the person ingesting the material but you are far, far off base.

Drugs destroy families. Drugs destroy lives. A lot of violence occurs within the family home which becomes cyclic with children who then often progress into being primary offenders when they get older.

If you haven't been privvy to the world of drugs in this regard, believe me, class A drugs (methamphetamines etc) are a huge driver of crime.
Notice ALL of this is all still happening while these drugs are completely illegal.
 
Jiigzz

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I own an AR and 100% agree with you, but it also goes the other way in that I don't think an AR is anymore dangerous than any other semi auto rifle so banning the gun isn't the right answer. But, I'm also not going to throw a fit if they ban ARs because I just don't ****ing need it. Lol

My pistol and shotgun are plenty for self defense and my AR isn't going to do jack against the government. It looks cool, you can do some cool mods to it, and it is what I use to hunt with, but there's other options.
I believe in restricted access to firearms. By that i mean more stringent controls on who can own a firearm, and the types of firearms a person can own.

Do I think people should be able to own firearms for hunting? Absolutely. I don't think anyone would argue for a complete firearm ban, but rather a few more controls around what a person can own and who can own a firearm.

I don't think of that as being unreasonable
 
ax1

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Nice strawman lol.
I hate these nonsensical wars. Thats where the real violence is at, so to convince me to have a mass murdering machine the US government is weaken society here is impossible....not your fault, as Ive said before I admire your heart.

I wish Wikileaks can pull out military date from NZ, would like to know if they helped US troops grown the opium while they were in Afghanistan and also helped export it out of the country.
 
Aleksandar37

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Driving a car is a privilege and not a constitutionally protected right. The government does have regulations on rate of fire for guns under the NFA regulations. If you want to have a gun that shoots more than 1 bullet with each trigger pull, you have to submit fingerprints, pay a $200 "tax", and at some point you had to get the approval of your local chief of police. Never mind that it could take up to a year to get approved to buy a machine gun that costs north of $10,000, adding to more burden on the buyer.
I'm fairly certain from our "conversations" that I know the Constitution a lot better than you. Hell, you think Virginia Tech can pass laws. I was using analogies (look it up) to show that the government does indeed have a long record of getting involved in trying to make driving safer. The comparison had absolutely nothing to do with rights.
 
Jiigzz

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Yes, I remember as a kid watching on TV people getting beaten to death in the middle of the street, but the smart prepared ones with the big guns survived.
Like i said, it truly is tragic what happened. Honestly, i, in no way shape or form am trying to minimise the suffering of those people. No life should be lost at the hands of another.

And that last sentence is exactly why id fight so hard for gun control.

But 600,000 peoples lives is a high price to pay for that freedom.

But im going to let this go now. Arguments that run in circles will see no compromise and therefore no further point in arguing.
 
Aleksandar37

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I own an AR and 100% agree with you, but it also goes the other way in that I don't think an AR is anymore dangerous than any other semi auto rifle so banning the gun isn't the right answer. But, I'm also not going to throw a fit if they ban ARs because I just don't ****ing need it. Lol

My pistol and shotgun are plenty for self defense and my AR isn't going to do jack against the government. It looks cool, you can do some cool mods to it, and it is what I use to hunt with, but there's other options.
That's because you're honest. Many others go back and forth between "it just looks scary and there are way more dangerous guns" and "it's the top of the food chain and the only option to taking down a feral pig" depending on what narrative they are currently pushing.
 

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I'm not lying because I learned in grade school that a university isn't one of the political bodies that pass laws. Universities make rules and policies that come with such sanctions as these stated in Virginia Tech's firearm policy: "Individuals who violate this policy may also be subject to arrest for trespass and/or violation of the appropriate state criminal statute, and/or may be barred from campus. For employees, an act of off-duty violent conduct may be grounds for disciplinary action, up to and including dismissal per applicable personnel policies."

You can say it's a law all you want, but it's a rule. Applebee's can put a no firearms sign in their door, but again that's not passing a law. So, when you shouted that it's the "****ing law" you were incorrect. Rather than checking your info, like usual, you doubled down on false information and now it's just you lying. Otherwise, you'd have to admit that you're one of those proud AR15-carrying Virginians that like to talk big, but don't do **** when it matters because you're afraid of getting kicked off campus.
Nice irrelevant comparison for your typical semantics argument you always make. People didn't carry guns in San Bernadino because the law said they couldn't. People don't carry at Va Tech because they could be arrested as you quoted. You don't get arrested if you don't break the law can you?

Since you're hung up on VaTech, which assault rifle ban would have stopped that massacre? None of them since he used a 9mm handgun and a 22lr handgun with, wait for it, 10 round magazines. So a 10 round mag limit wouldn't have stopped it either.


It's ok, all you've got are personal attacks like always.
 

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That's because you're honest. Many others go back and forth between "it just looks scary and there are way more dangerous guns" and "it's the top of the food chain and the only option to taking down a feral pig" depending on what narrative they are currently pushing.
More flat out lying.
 
ax1

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My pistol and shotgun are plenty for self defense and my AR isn't going to do jack against the government. It looks cool, you can do some cool mods to it, and it is what I use to hunt with, but there's other options.
But if 50 million of us have it....and by that I mean well trained, qualified and mature respectable gun culture its certainly balances things out a little more closely as it originally was intended to be. There would have to be better organization of course but we live in a snowflake culture these days and I personally admit Im a part of it as I was raised that way, lol
 
Jiigzz

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Notice ALL of this is all still happening while these drugs are completely illegal.
It sure is, and the question still remains:

"So unless you can stop all drug related crime 100%, is there any point in having any laws around drugs at all?"

Most people would argue yes. And i do too. Just because people dont always adhere to a law doesn't mean that law has no place in society. Burglaries still happen despite the law, and like i asked earlier, if you apply your same logic about drugs as you might to other crime, then what is the point of any law?

Drugs fuel crime. If you worked in law enforcement youd know that very, very well. Drugs fuel mental instability. If you worked in law enforcement youd know that very very well. Drugs may seem like a personal decision, but i assure you, the harm it reaches is far, far wider.
 
Jiigzz

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So you've had to shoot a charging pig more than once with a single shot rifle?
Didn't need to shoot it more than once with a 22.

Hunting is big sport in NZ, and most people dont use ARs.
 
ax1

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Like i said, it truly is tragic what happened. Honestly, i, in no way shape or form am trying to minimise the suffering of those people. No life should be lost at the hands of another.

And that last sentence is exactly why id fight so hard for gun control.

But 600,000 peoples lives is a high price to pay for that freedom.

But im going to let this go now. Arguments that run in circles will see no compromise and therefore no further point in arguing.
How many of those 600,000 were caused by gang on gang violence and how many of the victims were weak prey due to both being regulated out of self defense....for example, I cant get a carry on in NY and people all over Chicago are dying because they cant own firearms?

How many millions of innocent civilians has the US government slaughtered across the globe over oil, drugs and other various resources and "democratic (ROFL)" regime changes? And you want them to be the moral authority to take our guns? Thats like asking Jeffery Dahmer to guard a teenage gay brothel.
 
ax1

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It sure is, and the question still remains:

"So unless you can stop all drug related crime 100%, is there any point in having any laws around drugs at all?"

Most people would argue yes. And i do too. Just because people dont always adhere to a law doesn't mean that law has no place in society. Burglaries still happen despite the law, and like i asked earlier, if you apply your same logic about drugs as you might to other crime, then what is the point of any law?

Drugs fuel crime. If you worked in law enforcement youd know that very, very well. Drugs fuel mental instability. If you worked in law enforcement youd know that very very well. Drugs may seem like a personal decision, but i assure you, the harm it reaches is far, far wider.
I got a good idea, how about banning the government from bringing it in the first place?

Drugs do fuel crime, of course....so did alcohol during prohibition.

I support strong police forces and justice on criminals, so I would be dealing with actual crime no problem and dealing with drugs strictly as a medical issue.
 
Jiigzz

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But if 50 million of us have it....and by that I mean well trained, qualified and mature respectable gun culture its certainly balances things out a little more closely as it originally was intended to be. There would have to be better organization of course but we live in a snowflake culture these days and I personally admit Im a part of it as I was raised that way, lol
Except you dont need to be well trained to own a firearm.
 
thebigt

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Well then that's not CNN and politicians. That's cops not doing their job or not having the resources to do their job.
we need cnn and politicians to call cops out on this and quit acting like all deaths are by guns. the cops get their marching orders from politicians.
 
ax1

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Except you dont need to be well trained to own a firearm.
I support decentralized and/or licensing training for guns in some way. I have blockchain licensing in mind, something that can hide the government from keeping a database....or Id think this over more deeply with other minds if I got serious about it some time. Also would implement gun education at younger ages in schools as part of phys ed or something like in the video below. I did bow and arrow with compound bows in my high school, guns would have been cooler.

I just bought a home this past year and wanna get some stuff soon for self defense, Im going to sign both I and my wife up for class thats for sure. Never wanted a gun in an apartment complex, thats just too risky for me.

 
thebigt

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Of course ive never been shot. Not many NZers have, and thats the entire point of my argument that the chance of that happening in my own country is next to zero.

I have been involved in an accident, but i dont then say, "well f*** it! I just crashed, might as well have a gun in case i also now get shot!"

Where im from, we recognise cars are useful forms of travel and grant immense freedom of movement, but we dont apply that same broken logic to needing a firearm that MUST be carried everywhere by a person whose shot 10 bullets in their life, sat a 3 page exam and then given free reign to purchase an AR15 then expected to take down an active shooter should the need arise.

If you liken driving and owing a car to owing a high powered rifle, then that is on you.
lol...point is here as in NZ chances of getting hit by a car are a lot greater than getting hit by bullet...it seems to me your time would be better spent promoting safe driving...just sayin


btw-what are statistics on drunk driving in NZ, you have a lot of that there?
 
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ax1

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Didn't need to shoot it more than once with a 22.

Hunting is big sport in NZ, and most people dont use ARs.
I dont hunt or kill animals but if I did I would get the biggest fulfillment doing big game with a compound bow and arrow.
 
ax1

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But im going to let this go now. Arguments that run in circles will see no compromise and therefore no further point in arguing.
Dont worry its not a waste it makes for good brain training in my opinion.

Having other peoples most emotional honest valuations of various situations is valuable to me. Even if some many issues I disagree, it helps me understand opposing views and why people feel that way and I do actually pick up on ideas including yours in different ways. I dont get that as much in real life to life encounters. Its all positive in my books, we really have the same end goal which is maximizing human life.
 
Aleksandar37

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Nice irrelevant comparison for your typical semantics argument you always make. People didn't carry guns in San Bernadino because the law said they couldn't. People don't carry at Va Tech because they could be arrested as you quoted. You don't get arrested if you don't break the law can you?

Since you're hung up on VaTech, which assault rifle ban would have stopped that massacre? None of them since he used a 9mm handgun and a 22lr handgun with, wait for it, 10 round magazines. So a 10 round mag limit wouldn't have stopped it either.


It's ok, all you've got are personal attacks like always.
Are you trying to say that because Virginia Tech can call the police to get somebody arrested for trespassing that that is the same as passing a gun law?

When did I say a ban would have stopped it or said I was in favor of banning anything? You always cry semantics when I call you out on your lying and you just keep doing it. San Bernardino doesn't have a ban on guns. California has some strict rules, but no ban. So even though it's your favorite example because it's an easy one to fit into your narrative, it's not true to say the law doesn't allow people there to carry guns.
 
thebigt

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ok, Jiigzz I did a little research....NZ is well know for having horrible drivers, lol....guns might not kill you, but crazy drivers gonna git ya, lol. it seems you all have a bit of the alcohol before driving issue also!!!
 
Aleksandar37

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we need cnn and politicians to call cops out on this and quit acting like all deaths are by guns. the cops get their marching orders from politicians.
So you're telling me that CNN isn't reporting on any other deaths except those from guns? Call your local government and local news and tell them to look into it. Keep calling until they do. You don't even like CNN, so stop expecting them to do anything for you.
 
rascal14

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I believe in restricted access to firearms. By that i mean more stringent controls on who can own a firearm, and the types of firearms a person can own.

Do I think people should be able to own firearms for hunting? Absolutely. I don't think anyone would argue for a complete firearm ban, but rather a few more controls around what a person can own and who can own a firearm.

I don't think of that as being unreasonable
There absolutely needs to be better controls. All of my guns have been gifted to me, my name was never once ran to own the gun because it was a gift, the guns have never been transferred into my name, yet the whole situation is 100% legal. There is something sketchy about that to me.

I'm sure the government knows by now seeing as I have bought ammo and parts online, but you get the idea lol
 
rascal14

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ok, Jiigzz I did a little research....NZ is well know for having horrible drivers, lol....guns might not kill you, but crazy drivers gonna git ya, lol. it seems you all have a bit of the alcohol before driving issue also!!!
Horrible drivers, excessive guns, and excessive alcohol use? Sounds like Texas.
 

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Are you trying to say that because Virginia Tech can call the police to get somebody arrested for trespassing that that is the same as passing a gun law?

When did I say a ban would have stopped it or said I was in favor of banning anything? You always cry semantics when I call you out on your lying and you just keep doing it. San Bernardino doesn't have a ban on guns. California has some strict rules, but no ban. So even though it's your favorite example because it's an easy one to fit into your narrative, it's not true to say the law doesn't allow people there to carry guns.
For starters I didn't bring up San Bernadino. I never said Va Tech passes laws either. Third, California does in fact ban many guns. So a person can't even purchase the same gun that can be bought in other states. Please quote where I said California bans the carrying of guns. I very clearly stated that since only 2/10 of 1% of the population of California have carry permits and there is no open carry, that the chances of a person with a gun to stop the San Bernadino shooting is close to zero. Also copy and paste where I quoted you saying that a ban would have stopped anything. I never said such a thing.
 

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There absolutely needs to be better controls. All of my guns have been gifted to me, my name was never once ran to own the gun because it was a gift, the guns have never been transferred into my name, yet the whole situation is 100% legal. There is something sketchy about that to me.

I'm sure the government knows by now seeing as I have bought ammo and parts online, but you get the idea lol
You can always surrender them like they are doing in NZ. :)
 
thebigt

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So you're telling me that CNN isn't reporting on any other deaths except those from guns? Call your local government and local news and tell them to look into it. Keep calling until they do. You don't even like CNN, so stop expecting them to do anything for you.
tomorrow trump says he is going to give a billion dollars worth of grants to local police to enforce traffic laws...what do you think the response would be?
 
ax1

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Drugs fuel crime. If you worked in law enforcement youd know that very, very well. Drugs fuel mental instability. If you worked in law enforcement youd know that very very well. Drugs may seem like a personal decision, but i assure you, the harm it reaches is far, far wider.
If you support the having drugs illegal, thats fine, you have the right intent and I respect that. Just to be clear on my side Im very engaged with having solutions to help people with these issues.

But you DO also support having alcohol also illegal, right? Alcohol fuels and probably is the leading cause of domestic violence and rape which I know NZ has issues with as we have here in the USA, triggers violence and fights in bars, alcohol fuels mental instability, drains the health care system, drinking and driving, murder, nothing good, etc....

Do cops drink in NZ? And the politicians and bureaucrats enforcing drug laws, do they purchase drink alcohol too?
 
ax1

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tomorrow trump says he is going to give a billion dollars worth of grants to local police to enforce traffic laws...what do you think the response would be?
Higher revenue collecting for the states and local governments.

It will just raise taxes on the people through more revenue collecting....and the people are paying the billions out of their own pocket to so more of it can be collected and monthly revenue quotas met.

Spend billions of tax dollars taken from all of us at gunpoint to raise billions more, thats real smart, nice one Dump!
 

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I support decentralized and/or licensing training for guns in some way. I have blockchain licensing in mind, something that can hide the government from keeping a database....or Id think this over more deeply with other minds if I got serious about it some time. Also would implement gun education at younger ages in schools as part of phys ed or something like in the video below. I did bow and arrow with compound bows in my high school, guns would have been cooler.

I just bought a home this past year and wanna get some stuff soon for self defense, Im going to sign both I and my wife up for class thats for sure. Never wanted a gun in an apartment complex, thats just too risky for me.

Make sure it only holds 7 rounds. :(
 
Aleksandar37

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Nice irrelevant comparison for your typical semantics argument you always make. People didn't carry guns in San Bernadino because the law said they couldn't. People don't carry at Va Tech because they could be arrested as you quoted. You don't get arrested if you don't break the law can you?
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For starters I didn't bring up San Bernadino. I never said Va Tech passes laws either. Third, California does in fact ban many guns. So a person can't even purchase the same gun that can be bought in other states. Please quote where I said California bans the carrying of guns.
Maybe you were talking about San Bernardino, Ohio
 
Aleksandar37

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tomorrow trump says he is going to give a billion dollars worth of grants to local police to enforce traffic laws...what do you think the response would be?
Response from who? The police? If we're going to do theoreticals, why not tomorrow intelligent and reasonable laws are put into place and enforced so that cops can spend less time dealing with dead children and more time monitoring rolling stops.
 
Jiigzz

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we need cnn and politicians to call cops out on this and quit acting like all deaths are by guns. the cops get their marching orders from politicians.
Maybe not all deaths are gun related, but 35000 deaths per year are. It's still a big deal
 
Jiigzz

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lol...point is here as in NZ chances of getting hit by a car are a lot greater than getting hit by bullet...it seems to me your time would be better spent promoting safe driving...just sayin


btw-what are statistics on drunk driving in NZ, you have a lot of that there?
It's not a competition to see what method kills people more than another. It's not a case of "well more people die from car related things than anything else, so unless we can control that then we wont bother caring about other ways people die".

One stat being worse than another doesn't discredit the lower stat.

Alcohol related harm in NZ is shocking. Drivers in NZ are shocking. our state main highways that run the length of the country or that connect smaller towns together are often single lane, 100km/hr stretches of windy roads where people get over confident.

But our roads being a known problem and our driving being a known problem doesn't detract from the gun violence that occured.
 
Jiigzz

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If you support the having drugs illegal, thats fine, you have the right intent and I respect that. Just to be clear on my side Im very engaged with having solutions to help people with these issues.

But you DO also support having alcohol also illegal, right? Alcohol fuels and probably is the leading cause of domestic violence and rape which I know NZ has issues with as we have here in the USA, triggers violence and fights in bars, alcohol fuels mental instability, drains the health care system, drinking and driving, murder, nothing good, etc....

Do cops drink in NZ? And the politicians and bureaucrats enforcing drug laws, do they purchase drink alcohol too?
I will admit that alcohol is a tricky one, but yeah id be happy if it were gone. The reason why is that we do have a terrible alcohol culture here in NZ and it fuels an incredible amount of harm to families. Knowing that getting rid of it entriely is not the solution (same as guns), the best way is to better regulate the types of alcohol people can buy and the strength of alcohol people can buy. Teenagers dont need 50% alcoholic beverages. In my version of an ideal world, theyd be limited to 2-3% alcoholic beverages or something like that.

Like guns, people can be responsible drinkers. I won't deny that i think many of you on this board are responsible gun owners. However, there is no denying alcohol causes a HUGE amount of work for police - everything from general disorder to quite intense family harm episodes.

In my view, we wont ever get rid of crime 100%, but we can better control peoples access to harmful substances and weapons for the betterment of society. We are all clearly incapable of making good choices when left to our own devices.
 
Jiigzz

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Jiigzz

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Dont worry its not a waste it makes for good brain training in my opinion.

Having other peoples most emotional honest valuations of various situations is valuable to me. Even if some many issues I disagree, it helps me understand opposing views and why people feel that way and I do actually pick up on ideas including yours in different ways. I dont get that as much in real life to life encounters. Its all positive in my books, we really have the same end goal which is maximizing human life.
You are 100% right here.

I totally agree. We all just want what's best for our own countries, for our own wellbeing and sanity.

Apologies if emotions have been running high, I have no ill feelings toward any of you guys.
 

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Maybe you were talking about San Bernardino, Ohio
California bans open carry of guns. As well as the state has to deem you or your family member is in enough danger to warrant them issuing a carry permit.

Try again
 
ax1

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I will admit that alcohol is a tricky one, but yeah id be happy if it were gone. The reason why is that we do have a terrible alcohol culture here in NZ and it fuels an incredible amount of harm to families. Knowing that getting rid of it entriely is not the solution (same as guns), the best way is to better regulate the types of alcohol people can buy and the strength of alcohol people can buy. Teenagers dont need 50% alcoholic beverages. In my version of an ideal world, theyd be limited to 2-3% alcoholic beverages or something like that.

Like guns, people can be responsible drinkers. I won't deny that i think many of you on this board are responsible gun owners. However, there is no denying alcohol causes a HUGE amount of work for police - everything from general disorder to quite intense family harm episodes.

In my view, we wont ever get rid of crime 100%, but we can better control peoples access to harmful substances and weapons for the betterment of society. We are all clearly incapable of making good choices when left to our own devices.
That sounds good your not a load of hypocrisy.

With alcohol does it really matter how strong it is? If its 4% or 100% maybe you simply just drink more to get the same effect, right?

I used to drink when I was in high school and a couple of years after that so I do have some experience with that I just remember not needing to drink as much when we had hard liquor. I actually quit when I was about 22, just wasnt as fun anymore and combating my body-weight along with my love for lifting and bodybuilding (no not competitively, lol) save my life. Some people are saved by Jesus....I was saved by Iron, lol

Ok so lets say now you regulate, your compromising accessibility for drugs. Your not a hypocrite and have concerns for alcohol which is good. Now what do you think that would do over night to the black market and the potential to empower organized crime? How would that effect police work and how do you prevent the police from not participating?

I know your from a different part of the world so you may not know USA history as much, but you may find Al-Copone and the story of alcohol prohibition interesting.

To be clear, decriminalizing it (Id rather do that than simply making a "legal" slogan) and putting all resources to treating it as a medical condition can help. I always wanted self funded drug facilities with heavily regulated drugs (quality control) that provided in house rehab programs and medical care. Alot of cant afford treatment and have access to help.

These facilities would always encourage education, information, treatment and social services help.

It wont be perfect but it would reduce alot of strain on police and they can put their resources into violent crimes and other important issues they cant keep up with. More resources can be put into education in our schools tool.

Regulation (remember, Im not an anarchist, lol) can control promotion and advertisement so we wouldnt want a situation of marketing its use to people or anything like that.

Anyways its not a perfect solution but the resources into the drug on wars here in the USA is insane and has been nothing but a colossal failure.

I HATE DRUGS!
 

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