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OLYMPUS LABS taking over the rest of 2018!!

Same reason PES discointuned eegonine it’s not a big seller. It doesn’t matter if Ol owned that market the company would take a loss on making it. The demand is not there and it doesn’t have a high enough ROI to produce it
DWeaver said:
Then you would own the market.
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The Solution said:
Same reason PES discointuned eegonine it’s not a big seller. It doesn’t matter if Ol owned that market the company would take a loss on making it. The demand is not there and it doesn’t have a high enough ROI to produce it
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Exactly. I saw Ergonine at the 2 letter shoppe for $8.99/tub. That was 75% off and speaks to how low the demand is for such a product. I’m as sad as anyone to hear about Tr1umph possibly never coming back though
 
u_e_s_i said:
☹️
Could producing pretty small batches occasionally, say once every three months, be profitable? You could only release an unflavoured version along with a single flavoured version as you did before to keep production simple
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Economies of scale = larger profit.

Small runs probably wouldn’t be worth it. Their per unit cost from the manufacturer would be higher, thus less profitable
 
aaronuconn said:
Economies of scale = larger profit.

Small runs probably wouldn’t be worth it. Their per unit cost from the manufacturer would be higher, thus less profitable
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I know, I was just inquiring as to whether or not it'd be profitable.
I mean if the folks at OL take triumph themselves and they could at least break even by producing small batches occasionally, then by producing those small batches they can keep themselves and the demigod nation stocked up whilst turning a small profit or at least not losing money.
If the spare production capacity is there, then personally I'd consider doing it

What someone said about how PES is discontinuing ergonine gets me thinking.
So, us lot, we get triumph because in theory that's backed by assorted studies done with the ingredients, triumph should ultimately help us make faster gains.
Most gym goers, probably don't even know what an 'ergogenic' is (tbf why would they), nor would they bother spending 5-10 minutes reading the listing of something they've never heard of. So when they saw tr1umph, they didn't know what it was, they weren't sure how beneficial it'd be (if at all) and they probably weren't willing to spend 5-10 minutes finding out

Has anyone ever logged tr1umph?

Hypothetically. If some volunteers were to participate in a double blind study about tr1umph's effect on strength gains and measurements,
and the results showed that tr1umph makes a statistically significant difference,
then tr1umph could be rebranded with a fresh new label, touting that tr1umph increases lean muscle mass growth by g%, bicep circumference by b%, etc

A product like that would draw attention and intrigue that much better than the old tr1umph, which unfortunately most people never got to know

Just postulating
 
u_e_s_i said:
I know, I was just inquiring as to whether or not it'd be profitable.
I mean if the folks at OL take triumph themselves and they could at least break even by producing small batches occasionally, then by producing those small batches they can keep themselves and the demigod nation stocked up whilst turning a small profit or at least not losing money.
If the spare production capacity is there, then personally I'd consider doing it

What someone said about how PES is discontinuing ergonine gets me thinking.
So, us lot, we get triumph because in theory that's backed by assorted studies done with the ingredients, triumph should ultimately help us make faster gains.
Most gym goers, probably don't even know what an 'ergogenic' is (tbf why would they), nor would they bother spending 5-10 minutes reading the listing of something they've never heard of. So when they saw tr1umph, they didn't know what it was, they weren't sure how beneficial it'd be (if at all) and they probably weren't willing to spend 5-10 minutes finding out

Has anyone ever logged tr1umph?

Hypothetically. If some volunteers were to participate in a double blind study about tr1umph's effect on strength gains and measurements,
and the results showed that tr1umph makes a statistically significant difference,
then tr1umph could be rebranded with a fresh new label, touting that tr1umph increases lean muscle mass growth by g%, bicep circumference by b%, etc

A product like that would draw attention and intrigue that much better than the old tr1umph, which unfortunately most people never got to know

Just postulating
Click to expand...

You do realize the cost of a study, and then making a product that would lose money. Thousands of dollars. You are in the minority here.

If you were a business owner would you formulate a product to lose money? Let us use common sense here.
You have a very bad tendency to oversupplement and your post history reflects it. You want a 90 year old grandmother to invest in joint products when she has a bad diet and is very overweight. That is not how you solve an issue. That is how you throw money down a drain, just like if OL Wanted to invest in a fully transparent ergogenic product. Every company that has produced one hasnt profited off of it. Which makes 0 sense for a company trying to market, make money, and succeed.

You have to know the law of diminishing returns it would be for a growing company like OL to take a loss on making a new product when they could reformulate another product (Re1gn, Assassinate, Ar1macare Pro, Super PCT etc) and make much more revenue, ROI, and profit off of it.

I don't know about you, but supplement companies dont make products to suit a SMALL crowd, they are out there to make money, make business, and mass market. The demographic and demand for ergogenics.. Not at all.
 
u_e_s_i said:
I know, I was just inquiring as to whether or not it'd be profitable.
I mean if the folks at OL take triumph themselves and they could at least break even by producing small batches occasionally, then by producing those small batches they can keep themselves and the demigod nation stocked up whilst turning a small profit or at least not losing money.
If the spare production capacity is there, then personally I'd consider doing it

What someone said about how PES is discontinuing ergonine gets me thinking.
So, us lot, we get triumph because in theory that's backed by assorted studies done with the ingredients, triumph should ultimately help us make faster gains.
Most gym goers, probably don't even know what an 'ergogenic' is (tbf why would they), nor would they bother spending 5-10 minutes reading the listing of something they've never heard of. So when they saw tr1umph, they didn't know what it was, they weren't sure how beneficial it'd be (if at all) and they probably weren't willing to spend 5-10 minutes finding out

Has anyone ever logged tr1umph?

Hypothetically. If some volunteers were to participate in a double blind study about tr1umph's effect on strength gains and measurements,
and the results showed that tr1umph makes a statistically significant difference,
then tr1umph could be rebranded with a fresh new label, touting that tr1umph increases lean muscle mass growth by g%, bicep circumference by b%, etc

A product like that would draw attention and intrigue that much better than the old tr1umph, which unfortunately most people never got to know

Just postulating
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It's worth mentioning that the vast majority of loggers will not really want to comply with what is really standard "study procedures" of not changing any other variables besides supplement use, and even in some instances a standardization of training and/or diet to further match the supplement group with the placebo group. You'd also want your subjects to all be around the same experience level, as the gains someone who has been lifting for a year or two and benches 200 pounds will not be the same as a veteran lifter who benches 350. There's a lot that goes into a double-blind study that people don't really think about...

... and that's not even mentioning that to replicate a double-blind study they'd actually have to send half of the loggers bottles with placebo in them, which could then in turn turn these people off of the product and sour them to the company before the product is even out. And if this was some sort of internal testing, as in not publicly logged, the general population would probably dismiss it entirely anyway.
 
The Solution said:
You do realize the cost of a study, and then making a product that would lose money. Thousands of dollars. You are in the minority here.

If you were a business owner would you formulate a product to lose money? Let us use common sense here.
it is bad enough you make countless thread on how many supplements you can give to a 90 year old grandmother with joint issues when you even stated her diet is lackluster.
What supplements can you take for how bad your sleep is
Investing in a years worth of TTA for minimal results.... etc.

You have to know the law of diminishing returns it would be for a growing company like OL to take a loss on making a new product when they could reformulate another product (Re1gn, Assassinate, Ar1macare Pro, Super PCT etc) and make much more revenue, ROI, and profit off of it.

I don't know about you, but supplement companies dont make products to suit a SMALL crowd, they are out there to make money, make business, and mass market. The demographic and demand for ergogenics.. Not at all.
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Hence why the only companies that tend to sponsor studies on full products are your MuscleTech’s, MusclePharm’s, USPLabs, etc. They can afford the upfront costs of a study.

Someone please correct me if I’m off, but I’d imagine sponsoring a study is in the $100,000’s. Paying for the physicians, study design, recruiting the subjects, the tests, etc.

A company that’s growing like OL probably isn’t trying to throw that amount of money at a study (especially on a product with low-demand) when they could allocate that type of money towards R&D/product development, marketing, sales, etc.
 
aaronuconn said:
Hence why the only companies that tend to sponsor studies on full products are your MuscleTech’s, MusclePharm’s, USPLabs, etc. They can afford the upfront costs of a study.

Someone please correct me if I’m off, but I’d imagine sponsoring a study is in the $100,000’s. Paying for the physicians, study design, recruiting the subjects, the tests, etc.

A company that’s growing like OL probably isn’t trying to throw that amount of money at a study (especially on a product with low-demand) when they could allocate that type of money towards R&D/product development, marketing, sales, etc.
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It may also be worth noting that some studies on pre-workouts can be sort of unnecessary anyway, at least the way they often test them. We KNOW that caffeine can increase power output. To test a pre-workout with a ton of caffeine against placebo and say it's effective just because it outperformed placebo doesn't really tell us much of anything besides what we already know, that caffeine works. These studies should really compare their product to an equivalent dose of caffeine as well if they're determined to measure power output, to see if it'll actually do anything more than caffeine alone. Just my $0.02.
 
no one was looking forward to new T1UMPH more than I was, maybe as much, but not more....:disappointed:


with that said, I am really looking forward to trying the new pct product, formula looks great.
 
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Tr1umph will return but we will need to pump a lot of money into user education and product awareness since its a new category that doesn't contain stims.. We're focusing on growing our D2C and then bringing it back. There is a whole new branding campaign under way which will bring OL to the next level. We have been working relentlessly on the backend to bring this fruition looking to launch by Black Friday. Everything will change besides the product labels.
 
The Solution said:
You do realize the cost of a study, and then making a product that would lose money. Thousands of dollars. You are in the minority here.

If you were a business owner would you formulate a product to lose money? Let us use common sense here.
You have a very bad tendency to oversupplement and your post history reflects it. You want a 90 year old grandmother to invest in joint products when she has a bad diet and is very overweight. That is not how you solve an issue. That is how you throw money down a drain, just like if OL Wanted to invest in a fully transparent ergogenic product. Every company that has produced one hasnt profited off of it. Which makes 0 sense for a company trying to market, make money, and succeed.

You have to know the law of diminishing returns it would be for a growing company like OL to take a loss on making a new product when they could reformulate another product (Re1gn, Assassinate, Ar1macare Pro, Super PCT etc) and make much more revenue, ROI, and profit off of it.

I don't know about you, but supplement companies dont make products to suit a SMALL crowd, they are out there to make money, make business, and mass market. The demographic and demand for ergogenics.. Not at all.
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I'm saying that I believe Tr1umph would benefit a lot from a rebranding, from being an ergogenic to being an innovative natural muscle building supplement with a fresh new look and proven results.
'Ergogenics' only appeal to a small crowd but 'natural muscle builders' appeal to the mass market.
If Tr1umph were to be rebranded as a new, more eye-catching product that consumers feel they understand (the 'natural muscle builder' tag they'd understand), then OL could well start profiting from it.

muscleupcrohn aaronuconn
I'm sure that commissioning a third party to conduct a double blind study wouldnt be cheap.
Now, I don't know anything about the legal things behind studies and claims and what.
Ive come across studies that allow the participants to eat and train as they wish whilst only adding in a supp for some of them and a placebo for others. Something like that sounds like it could be done fairy cheaply and so long as there's a qualified supervisor making sure everything's ship shape, i wouldn't be surprised if the results from that could be used in the new ad.
So long as the groups are random, I think the 'experienced lifters' tag could be quite accomodating.
The people who receive the placebo should be aware that they may have received the placebo and so shouldn't discount Tr1umph if they don't get good results.

As for my grandma.
Dude, you repeatedly selectively ignore some of my posts and certain parts of other posts to fit your narrative and talk trash about me. I said it three or four times, that changing her diet is the first thing im going to do. That said, shes an old lady with gout and part of her lungs missing. I really don't think that changing her diet alone is going to allow her to walk pain-free, hence why I'm looking into the supplements.
Please could you not selectively filter what I say and misrepresent me
 
Olympus Labs said:
Tr1umph will return but we will need to pump a lot of money into user education and product awareness since its a new category that doesn't contain stims.. We're focusing on growing our D2C and then bringing it back. There is a whole new branding campaign under way which will bring OL to the next level. We have been working relentlessly on the backend to bring this fruition looking to launch by Black Friday. Everything will change besides the product labels.
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Thats great to hear

Do you mean that there'll be a new tr1umph out in time for black Friday?

I think half the battle for you guys will be getting the label right. Consumers need to be able to understand what tr1umph ultimately does from a quick scan of the label.
 
u_e_s_i said:
I'm saying that I believe Tr1umph would benefit a lot from a rebranding, from being an ergogenic to being an innovative natural muscle building supplement with a fresh new look and proven results.
'Ergogenics' only appeal to a small crowd but 'natural muscle builders' appeal to the mass market.
If Tr1umph were to be rebranded as a new, more eye-catching product that consumers feel they understand (the 'natural muscle builder' tag they'd understand), then OL could well start profiting from it.
Click to expand...

You miss the point
How many compnies have releaesd ergogenics and had to DC them?
Its a lost cause
The company will lose money, consumers are uneducated. Period

All people want is stuff that tastes good, is cheap, and they dont care about how innovative and how breakthrough the ingredient profile is. That is the minority on the market. You realize the market of supplement users is 95% of people who dont have a single clue what they are taking or what an ingredient profile is right? You are in the minority.

If you really think making products that don't sell well is a logical step you should consider taking economics and understanding return on investment (ROI). Because it is clear your mind is made up to go one way, but not to the mass market, or understanding the trend on what is popular and what is not.

Ive never met a person who thinks just because it may suit you means it suits the mass market. It doesn't matter how many studies you would make, or how hard you would try to educate a consumer. There is a reason why things that are underdosed sell beter then those that are fully transparent, fully open label, and clincally dosed. People pay for taste and convenience.

If someone sees BOGO 9/10 times they will buy the product compared to buying quality (something like an OL Product) over quantity (walmart, BPI garbage protein etc.)
sad but true.
 
Has anyone seen their bloodshed checked in to the post office yet? A label was created at 6pm Monday for mine and it’s still in “pre shipment” as of this morning. I ordered Assassinate at the same time and its scheduled to be delivered by tomorrow.
 
The Solution said:
You miss the point
How many compnies have releaesd ergogenics and had to DC them?
Its a lost cause
The company will lose money, consumers are uneducated. Period

All people want is stuff that tastes good, is cheap, and they dont care about how innovative and how breakthrough the ingredient profile is. That is the minority on the market. You realize the market of supplement users is 95% of people who dont have a single clue what they are taking or what an ingredient profile is right? You are in the minority.

If you really think making products that don't sell well is a logical step you should consider taking economics and understanding return on investment (ROI). Because it is clear your mind is made up to go one way, but not to the mass market, or understanding the trend on what is popular and what is not.

Ive never met a person who thinks just because it may suit you means it suits the mass market. It doesn't matter how many studies you would make, or how hard you would try to educate a consumer. There is a reason why things that are underdosed sell beter then those that are fully transparent, fully open label, and clincally dosed. People pay for taste and convenience.

If someone sees BOGO 9/10 times they will buy the product compared to buying quality (something like an OL Product) over quantity (walmart, BPI garbage protein etc.)
sad but true.
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The average joe supp consumers fall into two groups.
One group, buys what looks pro and is supposed to help them make awesome progress (even if it costs $70). Think the folks who get supps from GNC. A great example brand is muscletech. They don’t put out industry leading products but their products look very professional and some of them have studies that make them sound awesome to undiscerning buyers. So they sell well and make good money.
The other group, go for what’s cheap and looks good and/or tastes good. As you pointed out, the folks who’ll buy whatever has BOGO deal.

What I purported is that by creating a simple, easy to understand stat that’s enticing (tr1umph increases lean muscle mass growth by g%), OL can leave the technical stuff like MTor, AMPK, etc off the label, and tr1umph will become a lot more appealing to your average supp buyer because there’ll be an important stat that they understand, in the foreground.

Crucially, by advertising tr1umph as a ‘natural muscle builder’ and not as an ‘ergogenic’, OL would reposition tr1umph into a different market. A mass market. One that appeals to the average supp buyer.

The above along with a damn pretty new label, would appeal directly to the types of folks who buy supps at GNC.

When people used to see tr1umph, they’d think
‘Do I want an ergogenic?’ Or
‘Dafuq does that mean?’ Or
‘What’s MTor? And AMP... what?’

Rebranded, they’ll see tr1umph and think
‘Do I want a muscle builder that’ll help me gain g% more muscle? It’s natural too.’

Of course, those thoughts tend to lead to different things
 
Olympus Labs said:
Tr1umph will return but we will need to pump a lot of money into user education and product awareness since its a new category that doesn't contain stims.. We're focusing on growing our D2C and then bringing it back. There is a whole new branding campaign under way which will bring OL to the next level. We have been working relentlessly on the backend to bring this fruition looking to launch by Black Friday. Everything will change besides the product labels.
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Good news. If you couldn’t tell, we’re looking forward to it (whether or not you have a published study showing its effectiveness)
 
Olympus Labs said:
Tr1umph will return but we will need to pump a lot of money into user education and product awareness since its a new category that doesn't contain stims.. We're focusing on growing our D2C and then bringing it back. There is a whole new branding campaign under way which will bring OL to the next level. We have been working relentlessly on the backend to bring this fruition looking to launch by Black Friday. Everything will change besides the product labels.
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Excited for the news and especially that first sentence about Tr1umph returning!!
 
Can you guys stop bickering with each other and can we just get back to all the awesome stuff OL has released, is releasing and will release!?!?

Like more importantly I am Supreme standard and when I can buy it direct from OL! Lol. As soon as it becomes available I’m doing a good sized order!
 
Olympus Labs said:
Tr1umph will return but we will need to pump a lot of money into user education and product awareness since its a new category that doesn't contain stims.. We're focusing on growing our D2C and then bringing it back. There is a whole new branding campaign under way which will bring OL to the next level. We have been working relentlessly on the backend to bring this fruition looking to launch by Black Friday. Everything will change besides the product labels.
Click to expand...

D2C?
 
DWeaver said:
Has anyone seen their bloodshed checked in to the post office yet? A label was created at 6pm Monday for mine and it’s still in “pre shipment” as of this morning. I ordered Assassinate at the same time and its scheduled to be delivered by tomorrow.
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Mine is due to be delivered today. You got two different tracking numbers?
 
DWeaver said:
Has anyone seen their bloodshed checked in to the post office yet? A label was created at 6pm Monday for mine and it’s still in “pre shipment” as of this morning. I ordered Assassinate at the same time and its scheduled to be delivered by tomorrow.
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I have the exact same order and it is out for delivery now.
 
The Solution said:
Again you miss the point. You are trying to market OL into a GNC when in reality they are not, and compare those to buyers in stores.
Therefore mass consumers who shop in a GNC or a VS do not have a clue who OL is, or what the products natural purpose is. OL is marketed in smaller stores to help get brand recognition. When they get larger we hope to see them get into those big businesses because of their demand and growth of sales. They can get there and have the team to do so.

Go ask 10 people at your gym what an ergogenic is. I bet 9/10 of them start at you like a deer in headlights.
You are trying to pitch a product that has no functional use to most consumers who want a basic pre-workout amino beverage.

It doesn't matter how you market an ergogenic if you put it as a "natural muscle builder" you will need research and studies to back that label claim . Do companies have thousands and thousands of dollars to do so? Some studies could cost upward to $100,000 + (Think MT and their label claims on clear muscle)

Appealing to a small market is great, especially us who want high dosed and fully transparent products. The problem is we are a minority. If it sold well for a larger population and crowd every company would make these products and they would sell like hot cakes. The truth is, they do not. Again this is why companies continue to make them and why they have not had success.

You just do not see the big picture, and your trying to reinvent a wheel that hasn't made any profit. Show me a company that has had a transparent and open label ergogenic product that has been a massive money maker for them. You will be hard pressed to find one becasue they are low sellers compared to a pre, amino, protein etc....
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I’m using GNC patrons as an example of mainstream supps consumers, who don’t know what the vast majority of the ingredients in their supplements are.
Consumers like that don’t buy ergogenics because they don’t know what they are and aren’t sure what their benefits are.
What I purported above is aimed at making tr1umph appeal to that consumer group. If it can start doing that, then sales will increase.

A lot of consumers want gains first and foremost.
If you simplify the benefits of taking tr1umph to ‘it’ll give you gains’ then those consumers will start paying attention.

The thing is, I bet that you could get a study done for a lot less than $100k.
For example, you could pay some college scientists to run the study. Who will the participants be? If you give college kids a chance to take part in a study for a muscle building supplement, whereby if they take part there’s a 1in2 chance they’ll get to take something that’ll help them make awesome gains in three months or something, for free, you’ll probably get enough applications for the study.
Muscletech have used this technique
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And they can advertise the results, meaning OL would be able to do likewise.

Theyve probably all made the mistake of advertising their ergogenics as ‘ergogenics’, something that doesn’t capture consumers’ interest.
Just like how people are drawn to supps containing laxogenin and epicatechin, if tr1umph were advertised are a natural muscle builder, mainstream consumers would actually pay attention
 
jalfrey said:
Mine is due to be delivered today. You got two different tracking numbers?
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Yes 2 different orders and 2 different tracking numbers. I think it’s possible they realized later on that both of those items go to the same address and put them both in 1 of the shipments.
 
DWeaver said:
Has anyone seen their bloodshed checked in to the post office yet? A label was created at 6pm Monday for mine and it’s still in “pre shipment” as of this morning. I ordered Assassinate at the same time and its scheduled to be delivered by tomorrow.
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My bloodshr3d is expected be delivered today. Hopefully in a couple of hours. I can't wait to give it a try. Got some Amnes1a and gingerbread protein too.
 
DWeaver said:
Has anyone seen their bloodshed checked in to the post office yet? A label was created at 6pm Monday for mine and it’s still in “pre shipment” as of this morning. I ordered Assassinate at the same time and its scheduled to be delivered by tomorrow.
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Mines out for delivery
 
Mines out for delivey as well cant wait to try the new bloodshred i loved the old bloodshred ran that religiously n also getting my first bottle of kinslayer as well
 
I just notice says new member but i been here since 2008 just dont post much i have learned alot throught the years so thank guys n ol has become one of my favorite company keep it up
 
Oconns28 said:
Can you guys stop bickering with each other and can we just get back to all the awesome stuff OL has released, is releasing and will release!?!?

Like more importantly I am Supreme standard and when I can buy it direct from OL! Lol. As soon as it becomes available I’m doing a good sized order!
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Very much appreciate the support brother. We won’t keep you waiting too long
 
Threw down 2 scoops of blood shred and a bronkaid...sweat my ballllllls off. So much better than the old version and no yohimbine makes it so much smoother.
 
The sweating is unreal from the new bloodshred. Crazy Effective and Delicious.

I won't tease much more about what we're doing i'll show you come black friday

A lot of you will LOVE the direction we're taking a lot of you will NOT get it but the industry is about reaching millenials now in branding and identity and thats where we're going in our branding direction. As far as formulas go those will still be the same and best its all about presentation now
 
BillD said:
Threw down 2 scoops of blood shred and a bronkaid...sweat my ballllllls off. So much better than the old version and no yohimbine makes it so much smoother.
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How long did the energy last? Noticeable crash? It wasn’t over stimulating? Did you get any feel good effects? Any noticeable anxiety?

Sorry all the questions. Mine should be in today. I plan on starting with a half dose.
 
BillD said:
Threw down 2 scoops of blood shred and a bronkaid...sweat my ballllllls off. So much better than the old version and no yohimbine makes it so much smoother.
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Happy you’re enjoying it so far!!
 
Got to try bloodshr3d this morning. Did 1.5 scoops to be safe. Good energy and really smooth. 4 hours later and no crash so far. Mood was really unchanged and i am not hungry, so appetite suppression is there. Sucker punch is a great flavor. Exactly what it says, sweet and sour candy. Going full dose tomorrow. Invalid Link Removed
 
So i got home n there was my bloodshreed n kingslayer waiting for me so i took half a scoop at 630p since i workout at 8 pm n was i sweating at the gym n here again in the morning took 1 scoop n im at my desk sitting n im having to wipe my forhead cus i have a little sweat nothing crazy but enough to where u have to wipe off n i dont normally sweat alot so that says something
 
ELROCK said:
How long did the energy last? Noticeable crash? It wasn’t over stimulating? Did you get any feel good effects? Any noticeable anxiety?

Sorry all the questions. Mine should be in today. I plan on starting with a half dose.
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Zero crash zero anxiety and not jittery at all. Took it and was playing around the house with my 2 yr old daughter. I’ll take it today before gym and see how it goes.
 
thatsuppguy said:
Got to try bloodshr3d this morning. Did 1.5 scoops to be safe. Good energy and really smooth. 4 hours later and no crash so far. Mood was really unchanged and i am not hungry, so appetite suppression is there. Sucker punch is a great flavor. Exactly what it says, sweet and sour candy. Going full dose tomorrow. Invalid Link Removed
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Ever use assasinate? Curious how it is...one of the few Olympus products I’ve yet to try.
 
BillD said:
Ever use assasinate? Curious how it is...one of the few Olympus products I’ve yet to try.
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I did a long time ago, when it was first released. At the time I didnt feel I got much out of it, but I am giving it another go with my diet in check this time.
 
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