ANY NEW NATURAL ANABOLICS

Been using follidrone 2.0 for the last week with the flu and on antiobiotics haha. Made two very low key gym sessions instead of the normal 4-6 Day routine I follow. Pumps and fullness are off the charts (also using Glycøshield) but most notably I have been waking up with full wood (I’m on HRT with clomid and adex) and even when my labs are normal, I don’t ever get wood... the EC in follidrone 2.0 is shining right now
 
chedapalooza said:
Been using follidrone 2.0 for the last week with the flu and on antiobiotics haha. Made two very low key gym sessions instead of the normal 4-6 Day routine I follow. Pumps and fullness are off the charts (also using Glycøshield) but most notably I have been waking up with full wood (I’m on HRT with clomid and adex) and even when my labs are normal, I don’t ever get wood... the EC in follidrone 2.0 is shining right now
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Great experience with FD2!
 
chedapalooza said:
Been using follidrone 2.0 for the last week with the flu and on antiobiotics haha. Made two very low key gym sessions instead of the normal 4-6 Day routine I follow. Pumps and fullness are off the charts (also using Glycøshield) but most notably I have been waking up with full wood (I’m on HRT with clomid and adex) and even when my labs are normal, I don’t ever get wood... the EC in follidrone 2.0 is shining right now
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My current stack. I love fd2 and your product is right up there. I did toss in 5 grams of ceylon cinnamon on top of this and had 3 cups of chicken fried rice last night, my bg morning number today was 91.
 
GNO said:
No time to read through this thread...give me cliffs how do I gain 7lbs?

And wtf is MassMax & Vector?!?

God bless
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Bless you and the OL - R n D team..
I hope all is well, the truth will set you free..
 
chedapalooza said:
Been using follidrone 2.0 for the last week with the flu and on antiobiotics haha. Made two very low key gym sessions instead of the normal 4-6 Day routine I follow. Pumps and fullness are off the charts (also using Glycøshield) but most notably I have been waking up with full wood (I’m on HRT with clomid and adex) and even when my labs are normal, I don’t ever get wood... the EC in follidrone 2.0 is shining right now
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I swear Ecklonia cava is a miracle in this regard. It's like being 18 again.
 
So for the guys subbed in this thread. What in your opinion is a "natural anabolic"? The term "natural anabolic" is sort of new and has started to fill the places where ph and ds used to sit. So.... What is needed to qualify? What excludes? Where do we draw the lines...
Creatine?
Test booster? So is everything that raises test even slightly an anabolic?
Protein powder?
Or does it require more.....power.
 
brundel said:
So for the guys subbed in this thread. What in your opinion is a "natural anabolic"? The term "natural anabolic" is sort of new and has started to fill the places where ph and ds used to sit. So.... What is needed to qualify? What excludes? Where do we draw the lines...
Creatine?
Test booster? So is everything that raises test even slightly an anabolic?
Protein powder?
Or does it require more.....power.
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If it isn't originally manufactured in a lab I consider it a natty anabolic.
DHEA excluded for obvious reasons.
So SARMS, AAS, prohormones obvs not natty anabolics.
Everything else is fair game so plant extracts and all that.
Imo
 
taylor8461 said:
If it isn't originally manufactured in a lab I consider it a natty anabolic.
DHEA excluded for obvious reasons.
So SARMS, AAS, prohormones obvs not natty anabolics.
Everything else is fair game so plant extracts and all that.
Imo
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Ok, this makes logical sense.
But, not all plants or plant extracts are anabolic. Is resveratrol anabolic?
How about EGCG?
What effects validate a plant as an anabolic in your opinion?
 
brundel said:
Ok, this makes logical sense.
But, not all plants or plant extracts are anabolic. Is resveratrol anabolic?
How about EGCG?
What effects validate a plant as an anabolic in your opinion?
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Something that leads to significant muscle growth/ increased protein synthesis.
So technically I guess creatine could be considered a natty anabolic, but I feel like people prefer to class natty anabolics as more exotic things if that makes sense.
So rhaponticum, laxogenin, epicatechin and other flavnoids, even berberine etc.
 
taylor8461 said:
Something that leads to significant muscle growth/ increased protein synthesis.
So technically I guess creatine could be considered a natty anabolic, but I feel like people prefer to class natty anabolics as more exotic things if that makes sense.
So rhaponticum, laxogenin, even berberine etc.
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Ok, makes sense. What about validation?
So I suppose your saying that there should be significant clinical evidence that it increases muscle growth, protein synthesis etc?
Aside from a company just saying it works.
 
brundel said:
Ok, makes sense. What about validation?
So I suppose your saying that there should be significant clinical evidence that it increases muscle growth, protein synthesis etc?
Aside from a company just saying it works.
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Studies, trials, bloodworks etc. are all important to validate any anabolic otherwise you would have companies blasting out random useless extracts.
 
brundel said:
Ok, makes sense. What about validation?
So I suppose your saying that there should be significant clinical evidence that it increases muscle growth, protein synthesis etc?
Aside from a company just saying it works.
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In an ideal world, yes
 
taylor8461 said:
Studies, trials, bloodworks etc. are all important to validate any anabolic otherwise you would have companies blasting out random useless extracts.
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actually with recent changes, the FDA has new protocols for bringing new ingredients to market.. this is not an issue like it used to be as long as the company applies GMP
 
xR1pp3Rx said:
actually with recent changes, the FDA has new protocols for bringing new ingredients to market.. this is not an issue like it used to be as long as the company applies GMP
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One of the few good things the FDA has done then imo.
Gotta get rid of the snake oil
 
taylor8461 said:
Something that leads to significant muscle growth/ increased protein synthesis.
So technically I guess creatine could be considered a natty anabolic, but I feel like people prefer to class natty anabolics as more exotic things if that makes sense.
So rhaponticum, laxogenin, epicatechin and other flavnoids, even berberine etc.
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Berberine is literally the opposite of an anabolic
 
chedapalooza said:
In simplest terms, people will try to scare others into thinking that berberine is catabolic / will prevent muscle growth bc it activates ampk. This is only (partially) accurate in bolus dosing (minimum 500mg in a single serving).
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Who mentioned the word catabolic? I won’t get into a discussion on it with you cause it will obviously ruffle jimmies
 
NoAddedHmones said:
Explain what a nutrient partitioner is, how it works and specifically how berberine’s MOA’s work.
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A nutrient partitioner is meant to prevent excess carbs from being converted into fat in a similar way to insulin.
From what I understand berberine turns on AMPK, which helps blood glucose and lipid levels and prevents catabolism.

Educate me if you know something I don't fam. Coming off a little rude
 
I did. I’ve personally experienced it in testing.. you know the thing you do when you actually use the products you sell so you have relevant feedback to provide instead of using studies and quoting big words that the general population doesn’t understand or want to hear.
 
taylor8461 said:
A nutrient partitioner is meant to prevent excess carbs from being converted into fat in a similar way to insulin.
From what I understand berberine turns on AMPK, which helps blood glucose and lipid levels and prevents catabolism.

Educate me if you know something I don't fam. Coming off a little rude
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Sorry man, didn’t mean to come off that way. By definition ampk activation is a cellular signalling pathway for energy production, not consumption ie breaking down molecules to produce energy.

Ampk activation does cause glucose uptake from the bloodstream into skeletal muscle and fat cells indiscriminately as glut4 receptors are expressed in both.

My point was it can’t be an anabolic when its MoA is promoting AMPK
 
NoAddedHmones said:
Sorry man, didn’t mean to come off that way. By definition ampk activation is a cellular signalling pathway for energy production, not consumption ie breaking down molecules to produce energy.

Ampk activation does cause glucose uptake from the bloodstream into skeletal muscle and fat cells indiscriminately as glut4 receptors are expressed in both.

My point was it can’t be an anabolic when its MoA is promoting AMPK
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It's coolcool. Surely theres still use for it then, I don't think any claim to push ALL carbs into muscle, even if it helps shuttle a few carbs in the right direction it helps. I have to imagine carbs and a GDA help even more preworkout, I've certainly noticed a difference.
Lots of people on forum swear by GDAs too.
So liiiike anabolics sixth cousin twice removed?
 
NoAddedHmones said:
Sorry man, didn’t mean to come off that way. By definition ampk activation is a cellular signalling pathway for energy production, not consumption ie breaking down molecules to produce energy.

Ampk activation does cause glucose uptake from the bloodstream into skeletal muscle and fat cells indiscriminately as glut4 receptors are expressed in both.

My point was it can’t be an anabolic when its MoA is promoting AMPK
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'sorry' is one of, if not the most underrated word in the dictionary, imo....good man!!!
 
taylor8461 said:
It's coolcool. Surely theres still use for it then, I don't think any claim to push ALL carbs into muscle, even if it helps shuttle a few carbs in the right direction it helps. I have to imagine carbs and a GDA help even more preworkout, I've certainly noticed a difference.
Lots of people on forum swear by GDAs too.
So liiiike anabolics sixth cousin twice removed?
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Yeah they definitely have their place for certain circumstances and individual goals. Building muscle is certainly not a category that they fit very well into.
 
NoAddedHmones said:
You know I mean well with the majority of my posts BigT! I just like to get peoples thought processes before giving my opinion.
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I know that...but not everyone knows you as well as I...as far as posts in this thread you are holding your own quite nicely!!!
 
chedapalooza said:
In simplest terms, people will try to scare others into thinking that berberine is catabolic / will prevent muscle growth bc it activates ampk. This is only (partially) accurate in bolus dosing (minimum 500mg in a single serving).
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Its not really proper to just state something activates AMPK so therefore will prevent muscle growth.
In most species, AMPK exists as an obligate heterotrimer, containing a catalytic subunit (a), and two regulatory subunits (β and γ).
Epicatechin increases AMPK. Is it catabolic?
Im not at all saying Berberine is anabolic. Im just stating that saying something increases AMPK doesnt mean catabolic necessarily.
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iamyourfather said:
what are the new restrictions? no substances without clinical human studies? or what kind of changes do you mean?
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in laymens terms... its basically impossible to bring new stuff to market now. you almost have to be able to spend like big pharma and be able to prove efficacy and safety, ect..
 
xR1pp3Rx said:
in laymens terms... its basically impossible to bring new stuff to market now. you almost have to be able to spend like big pharma and be able to prove efficacy and safety, ect..
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You also have to be really careful not to make a label claim like we have xxx chemical extracted from xxx plant.
If xxx isnt in the plant you claim your open to some pretty heavy legal stuff.
Or if your stating your using xxx chemical extracted from xxx plant and its synthetic meaning there are no traces of the plant you face pretty nasty legal stuff.
They are even going after people using synthetic caffeine.
So if your introducing a new chemical that hasnt been used in a supplement before you had better have your ducks in a row. Or.....you can be in seriously deep water. And if we have learned anything its that even discontinuing the product wont protect you. For example they have gone after a number of companies and raided them because many years ago they had a superdrol product.
Same goes for people selling sarms and chemicals not known in nature. Your REALLY asking for trouble. Just a giant FN target.
Hope those products made you tens or hundreds of millions cause the jail time isnt worth it otherwise. Or even worth it if you did make millions.
 
mbonheur said:
I am currently running some cheap Tribulus 90% (obviously Bulls...) at 4 grams a day (which is double the recommended dosage) 500 caps at 500mg were less than 20$ (it is sold in Germany or via Amazon).

I am three weeks in, strength is up, recovery is better and mood is good. So basically what test boosters at 30-40$ are doing, and I have tried them all.

I think I will stick with this, save some money and rotate with my beloved Turkesterone extract which performs better in the recovery department.
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You say its BS but it seems to be working great for you. What brand is it?
 
brundel said:
Its not really proper to just state something activates AMPK so therefore will prevent muscle growth.
In most species, AMPK exists as an obligate heterotrimer, containing a catalytic subunit (a), and two regulatory subunits (β and γ).
Epicatechin increases AMPK. Is it catabolic?
Im not at all saying

Berberine is anabolic.


Im just stating that saying something increases AMPK doesnt mean catabolic necessarily.
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Exactly. Which is why is not appropriate to say then that berberine will prevent muscle growth
 
rowz4broz said:
Funny that you have been liking my posts and quoting me because I recall you specifically saying you were going to purchase C&P predator and put it head to head with GlycoShield. That is the kind of market research/awareness I’m talking about.
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While it's good to be able to compare, the most unbiased opinion will come from someone with no skin in the game.
 
We are getting close to launch for Vector.
I should have some data up regarding ingredient 1 today and will release the other 2 over the next 2 weeks.
Keep an eye out. This stuff is killer.
Or go to our site and sign up for newsletter so you know when the intro sale will be. I think it should be 40% off for 24 hours.
 
brundel said:
We are getting close to launch for Vector.
I should have some data up regarding ingredient 1 today and will release the other 2 over the next 2 weeks.
Keep an eye out. This stuff is killer.
Or go to our site and sign up for newsletter so you know when the intro sale will be. I think it should be 40% off for 24 hours.
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Time is getting closer people!
 
brundel said:
We are getting close to launch for Vector.
I should have some data up regarding ingredient 1 today and will release the other 2 over the next 2 weeks.
Keep an eye out. This stuff is killer.
Or go to our site and sign up for newsletter so you know when the intro sale will be. I think it should be 40% off for 24 hours.
Click to expand...

Did you ever post any data not hat one ingredient or all!?
 
ERIOBOTRYA JAPONICA -1000mg/100:1 extract.
Eriobotrya Japonica (EJ) or Loquat is a fruiting plant commonly used for food, added to alcholic beverages and sometimes used for health and longevity. EJ contains a host of interesting chemicals with a number of effects that are beneficial to those looking to build muscle, burn fat or increase athletic performance. Loquat for bodybuilders? On the surface EJ doesnt seem to be super exciting but nothing could be further from the truth. There have been a number of studies indicating that the proper extract at a high enough dose can lead to gains in muscle mass, strength and fat loss. Studies indicate EJ Increases the expression of myogenic genes MyoD, Myogenin and MyHC. This increased expression corresponds with an increase in the activity of Creatine Kinase a myogenic differentiation marker. Finally EJ activates the AKT/mTOR pathway and subsequently promotes muscle protein synthesis and a gain in lean muscle mass. In studies EJ was shown to prevent muscle atrophy and increase muscle hypertrophy so its great if your cutting and want to preserve muscle and its great if you want to bulk.
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AKT/Mtor
Akt is known as effector of insulin/IGF-1 signalling and it can induce muscle hypertrophy through a pathway involving rapamycin-sensitive mTOR.
mTOR regulates PGC-1a expression, which is a key regulator of mitochondria biogenesis, and the expression of PGC-1a has been implicated in the control of skeletal muscle mass. The activation of the Akt/mTOR pathway and its downstream targets, p70S6K and PHAS-1/4E-BP1, is requisitely involved in regulating skeletal muscle fiber size. Acute AKT activation also leads to a decrease in adipose tissue (fat loss)

QUOTE"
The pathways that are sufficient to induce hypertrophy in skeletal muscle have been the subject of some controversy. We describe here the use of a novel method to produce a transgenic mouse in which a constitutively active form of Akt can be inducibly expressed in adult skeletal muscle and thereby demonstrate that acute activation of Akt is sufficient to induce rapid and significant skeletal muscle hypertrophy in vivo, accompanied by activation of the downstream Akt/p70S6 kinase protein synthesis pathway. Upon induction of Akt in skeletal muscle, there was also a significant decrease in adipose tissue. These findings suggest that pharmacologic approaches directed toward activating Akt will be useful in inducing skeletal muscle hypertrophy and that an increase in lean muscle mass is sufficient to decrease fat storage."

MyHC
Myosin heavy-chain synthesis rate is correlated with measures of muscle strength, circulating insulin-like growth factor 1 and
dehydroepiandrosterone sulfate in men and women and free testosterone levels in men.

MyoD
both MyoD and myogenin genes are necessary in the regenerative process for the proliferation of satellite cells (myoblasts) and for the development of early regenerating fibers (myotubes). The expression of Myod is sufficient to convert a fibroblast to a skeletal muscle cell,
 
Lower doses or the incorrect extraction process has been shown to be ineffective so the extraction process is very important with EJ. So lets dig into whats inside the plant itself.
Just a short list of the chemical constituents of EJ-

Epicatechin
Ursolic acid
Chlorogenic acid
Corosolic acid
Oleanolic acid
Caffeic acid
Procyanidin B2
Protocatechuic acid
Ferulic acid
Tormentic acid
Naringenin
Ellagic acid
EGCG
Quercetin

This is a pretty impressive list of actives. Lets take a look at what some of these do.

Epicatechin.
EJ doesnt have as much epicatechin as something like cocoa or green tea but there is still a decent amount. Its estimated that there is about 150mg per 100g in cocoa and there is about 60mg in EJ so a little less than half. None the less there is enough that epicatechin will be active especially with Narinigenin, EGCG and quercetin in the mix as these all increase the absorption of epicatechin. Lets think of epicatechin as sort of a bonus.

Ursolic acid.
There is a decent dose in here at upwards of 150mg estimated per daily dose of our EJ extract but Ursolic acid is also a major constituent of another of Vectors ingredents giving us approx 300mg + of Ursolic acid per dose. Ursolic acid orally has been show in studies to increase muscle mass, Increase strength, Increase brown fat, Increase glucose utilization and increase exercise capacity. Its been stated that UA is not viable orally but I think I disagree and it seems as though studies also indicate that it is orally active although it has a very poor absorption rate. High doses are required and studies indicate 300+ should be enough orally to produce the desired results.

Corosolic acid.
Corosolic acid is a GDA generally extracted from Banaba (lagerstroemia speciosa) but a significant amount is present in Eribotrya J. Corosolic acid works orally at relatively low doses and has some interesting effects. Even doses of 10mg are viable to display its impressive effects. Most people have heard of Corosolic acid for its glucose effects as it is a major GDA. Corosolic acid can help to keep glucose down with multiple mechanisms of action. Glut4 translocation, reduced insulin resistance as well as all kinds of enzymatic suppression and or expression.
-Corosolic acid has been shown to reduce cholesterol levels and enhance lipid metabolism.
-Corosolic acid is also a great fat burner not only through antidiabetic effects but also by retarding absorption of fatty acids.
-Corosolic acid is a potent and selective inhibitor of the enzyme (11-beta hydroxysteroid dehydrogenase type 1) that converts inactive cortisone to active cortisol. Therefore, corosolic acid may prevent excessive cortisol production.
Overall Corosolic acid is one of Vectors great components. Increased Glucose uptake into muscles, decreased blood sugar, increased insulin sensitivity, increased fat utilization and decreased fat diposition plus decreased cortisol make Corosolic a powerhouse.

Oleanolic acid
Oleanolic acid (OA) is a constituent of Olea Europea, Viscum Album and Eriobotrya japonica as well as others.
Its long been used in Chinese medicine for treatment of liver disorders and other ailments. OA increases glucose utilization, is a solid vasodilator and increases expression of the AKT pathway.

Protocatechuic acid
Insulin like activity by activating PPAPy.
Decreases ROS
Antiageing
Anti inflammatory
Antiseptic
analgesic
GLUT4 upregulation
Antioxidant
Protects the testes from damage and stress
Cardio protective

Caffeic acid
Increased exercise capacity
Reduced Blood Lactate
Increased fat loss
Endurance

Ferulic acid, 4-hydroxy-3-methoxycinnamic acid, is one of the most ubiquitous phenolic acids, found in the
bran of grasses such as wheat, rice, and oats. It belongs to the family of plant hydroxycinnamic acids, which
include caffeic acid, sinapic acid, and p-coumaric acid. Recent studies have provided evidence that ferulic acid reduces the risk of disease, including
Alzheimer’s disease, cardiovascular disease, diabetes, and colon cancer. Currently, ferulic acid is used to enhance athletic
performance, both in humans and racehorses. Supplementation by it has been found to increase muscle strength in weight lifters.

In one animal study a single acute administration of Ferulic acid increased swimming time by 170%.
Ferulic acid prevented the decrease in catalase, superoxide dismutase and protected against the depletion of GST activity induced by exhaustive
exercise.
Exercise can be associated with oxidative stress. Thus exercise can act as a powerful source of Reactive Oxygen Species, depending on duration and intensity. During exhaustive exercise, fat is typically used as the primary energy source, thus sparing glycogen stores, which in turn retards fatigue. However, during strenuous exercise substantial production of ROS occurs via beta oxidation during the utilization of fat.
In addition, a dramatic increase in oxygen consumption in the body creates an imbalance between ROS and the antioxidant defense system resulting in fatigue.
Acute adminstration of Ferulic acid prevents fatigue, increases endurance and protects the body during exhaustive exercise.

Chlorogenic acid
CA often reffered to as green coffee extract is widely known for its antiobesity effects via PPARa agonism and by preventing proliferation of new fat cells. CA can increase muscular glucose uptake both by stimulating Non insulin dependent AMPK as well as stimulating pAKt. Great for keeping bodyfat off while promoting muscle growth.

Tormentic acid
Anti diabetic
Glut4
AMPK





REFS:
1.Loquat leaf extract enhances myogenic differentiation, improves muscle function and attenuates muscle loss in aged rats.
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2.Loquat (Eriobotrya japonica) extract prevents dexamethasone-induced muscle atrophy by inhibiting the muscle degradation pathway in Sprague Dawley rats.
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3.Effect of Loquat Leaf Extract on Muscle Strength, Muscle Mass, and Muscle Function in Healthy Adults: A Randomized, Double-Blinded, and Placebo-Controlled Trial
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4.Ethanol Extract of Eriobotrya japonica Leaves Enhanced Swimming Capacity in Mice
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5.Cell Suspension Culture of Eriobotrya japonica Regulates the Diabetic and Hyperlipidemic Signs of High-Fat-Fed Mice
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6.Tormentic Acid, a Major Component of Suspension Cells of Eriobotrya japonica, Suppresses High-Fat Diet-Induced Diabetes and Hyperlipidemia by Glucose Transporter 4 and AMP-Activated Protein Kinase Phosphorylation
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one of theleast appreciated effects/actions of AAS are the cortisol lowering effects... this is exciting stuff~!!
 
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