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NTNM - Diet , my un-scientific approach to leanness

hairygrandpa said:
I gained a few pounds on vacation. With renewed energy and dedication, I will this time stick to my diet.

Its a combination of intermittent fasting and complete fasting.
I call it:

NTNM - "No train-no meal."TM

-One meal on training days, no meal on off days.
-Only time a meal is allowed is after training.
-Meal has to stay under 2000 kcal.
-Meal has to be consumed in a 2 hour window after training.
-Macross: 65%Prot/20%Fat/15%Carbs
-Off days = water/ black coffee only.

Stay tuned for before/after pics!

Derailing this thread is encouraged!
Click to expand...

I honestly think you could bump your carbs to 200grams after this workout, and still burn just as much fat while allowing for improved performance while in the gym. YOu would gain more anabolism with the training and your blood sugar would be back down to nothing within an hour or so due to the insulin sensitivity. The Alternate Day Fasting method is very much like what you are doing here. When done with a workout the workout is done before the meal which is typically about every 36-48 hours. They also typically eat a full days worth of calories or very close on the day they do eat that meal.

SFreed said:
Updated the ever changing list. Again.
hairygrandpa rtmilburn alphagainz SFreed CJNator HIT4ME wesb2387 Tank999 DennisTheDane Juicedeez utz BEAST73 Alpha1agreda LeanEngineer coltonwalker Brandinooooo Sparkss Studhorse blueline438 lifted67 smith_69 rtmilburn FireTitan alphagainz ChocolateClen justhere4comm matt8483 ryane87 nostrum420 mmorso HIT4ME thebigt Dirty Dan Bmac63095 TNlifting BEAST73 Tank999 BloodManor angcd3 habajaba mmorso cwages TheMyth DemntedCowboy lukehayd Rocket3015 Oconns28 jalfrey bloodnthunder jtmass Martyfnemec
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It's funny I am about 99% sure I am the one who cleaned this list up so it didn't have duplicates and triplicates but somehow am still not on the damn thing myself. LMAO!!!
hairygrandpa said:
I'm pretty confident this hairy ape will survive, LOL! My guess is, workout intensity and volume will suffer -and the toilet will get clogged due to fire- extinguisher-sized dumps, caused by constipation.
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YOu don't have to deal with the constipation, you can definitely have some carbs and increase your fats with your single meal.
SFreed said:
Sometimes I hesitate to add people, due to the rambling, off subject nature of some of our threads. I will add you both in the next time "The List" gets used.
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Me too, me too!!!!
hairygrandpa said:
I hear you. Last time I did keto I fainted at work when ketosis kicked in. Don't know if I get into ketosis this time -as long as I don't faint, I don't care.
I may have to change macross around to avoid ketosis -or make the meal bigger.
If you plan to go to Orlando in your vacation, make sure you go on Monday or Tuesday. I was last Monday there, only 5-10 minutes to wait in line per attraction. Lots of tourists cancelled after "Irma", thats a plus!
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More likely you went hypoglycemic if you passed out. That wouldn't typically happen when in ketosis because the ketones then get used as energy where the blood sugar would have if at acceptable levels.

hairygrandpa said:
Clen and DMAA in the past. I made up my mind, my time as a lab rat is over. It does more harm than good for me. AAS use will from now on be conservative too.


None. No shakes, also no BCAA's. Only supplement is fish oil.
Cycle is : Test-e 250mg/w + Ostarine 20mg/day.


This time its over when I hit 200lbs. 22lbs have still to go.


Almost! Was at the farm pruning my plantation all day.


Update:
Yesterday night I had half a bottle of Vodka with Coke Zero at a "Spring Party". Not sure if this counts as cheating, I'd call it recreation.

Today is day 5 of NTNM. Scale says: 222lbs, 8lbs lost so far! Its Sunday and the family is eating ice cream right now -me, sitting in my office pretending I don't want ice cream.
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Well when it comes to alcohol it is higher in calories than protein or carbs, and actually takes preference in the digestive process because it is seen as a poison so any protein and or carbs ingested with it will be processed after the alcohol has been. So keep that in mind. Here is how it breaks down.
1oz of vodka is 65 kCal, half of 750ml = 375ml = 12.7 oz so the total extra calories = 825.5


hairygrandpa said:
Day 6:
Those "No meal off days" are torture.
Yesterday was the hardest day so far. Hunger cravings were mind numbing. Gym was closed on Sunday, so I couldn't work out to allow a meal.
I admit I cheated: 3 boiled eggs and about a dozen macadamia nuts. Will up cardio to burn those macadamias off.

:(

Woke up at 215.6 Lbs , 14.4lbs lost in 6 days!
I can see changes in the mirror from glycogen depletion and water loss.

Nowadays I inject Test-e subcutaneous. Each injection of 0.5ml with a slin pin, leaves a small bump under the skin, that dissolves in about 3 days. Will stick to this method, it's by far the most comfortable one.
Energy is a tad low and I feel less strong. Today's workout will be a challenge -but I'm eager to go to the gym, because after that: MEAL TIME!
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There really is no need to burn off the macadamias or do extra work. YOu are in a massive deficit, adding in cardio is really only going to push muscular catabolism. Other than a 10 minute warm up I wouldn't be touching cardio. Now taking a walk for general activity that would help and not really send cortisol through the roof.
 
Valuable input MrKleen73 !!! Much appreciated!

Will up the carbs after training and stay shy of cardio, you are right, it could be detrimental.
My protein intake is way under what some people would say is necessary to hold onto muscle.
I mentioned before that I have doubts about the supposed needed daily protein. I assume one needs much less than advertised. From my experience, when being in the army, I had a lean muscular body and ate only what was served, guessing it was about 80-100gr protein daily.
My diet will either proof me right -or wrong about this.

Edit: it was less then 100gr protein/day, more like 70-80, just recalculated.
 
hairygrandpa said:
Valuable input MrKleen73 !!! Much appreciated!

Will up the carbs after training and stay shy of cardio, you are right, it could be detrimental.
My protein intake is way under what some people would say is necessary to hold onto muscle.
I mentioned before that I have doubts about the supposed needed daily protein. I assume one needs much less than advertised. From my experience, when being in the army, I had a lean muscular body and ate only what was served, guessing it was about 80-100gr protein daily.
My diet will either proof me right -or wrong about this.

Edit: it was less then 100gr protein/day, more like 70-80, just recalculated.
Click to expand...

I think you must have written something down wrong somewhere if your protein intake is considered low by anyone then they are eating WAY TOO MUCH PROTEIN!!!!!

You said you are getting 65% of cals from protein -

2000 x .65=1300 1300/4=325 grams of protein in 1 meal. I don't eat 325 grams of protein in a day, like ever... well maybe once I ventured to 350 for a bit but it was uncomfortable. 170p, 200c 50f would be a nice way to eat just under 2000 cals surrounding a workout.
 
You might even try this by having an intra shake with say 50g isolate, and 100g HBCD or Malto in it to really get some great performance in on your workouts. Just start sipping it when you start our warm up. By the time you finish 10-15 minutes later the carbs will be entering your system to feed the workout. That way you are maximizing anabolism Peri-Workout and maximizing fat burn during the fasting.
 
MrKleen73 said:
I think you must have written something down wrong somewhere if your protein intake is considered low by anyone then they are eating WAY TOO MUCH PROTEIN!!!!!

You said you are getting 65% of cals from protein -

2000 x .65=1300 1300/4=325 grams of protein in 1 meal. I don't eat 325 grams of protein in a day, like ever... well maybe once I ventured to 350 for a bit but it was uncomfortable. 170p, 200c 50f would be a nice way to eat just under 2000 cals surrounding a workout.
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Oops, I never did the math, LOL!
Up to now, my meals were way under 2000kcal, 1500kcal max, I guess. I just could not eat that much in one session. Keep in mind, I don't eat anything on off days (if I'm not cheating...). Following your advise, I'll up the carbs!

MrKleen73 said:
You might even try this by having an intra shake with say 50g isolate, and 100g HBCD or Malto in it to really get some great performance in on your workouts. Just start sipping it when you start our warm up. By the time you finish 10-15 minutes later the carbs will be entering your system to feed the workout. That way you are maximizing anabolism Peri-Workout and maximizing fat burn during the fasting.
Click to expand...

Yes, you are right, but I stick to what I'm doing like a brick wall, if not -the diet rules change too much and get complicated for me. No shakes, period.
The whole idea of this diet is: avoiding to count everything down to an atom to make it "right". I'm aware that one could supplement a lot of stuff to balance out deficiencies -but nah. Not this time. Simply put: Train and have a meal. Don't train = no meal for you.
It will work -losing a bit of gains isn't the end of the world. If energy drops to zero, I may reconsider.

My "after pics" will do it justice, I swear! Just you wait... muhahahaha!
 
If not, will there be another round of tub pics?? I asked earlier, but I think you're avoiding me.
 
hairygrandpa said:
Day 6:
Those "No meal off days" are torture.
Yesterday was the hardest day so far. Hunger cravings were mind numbing. Gym was closed on Sunday, so I couldn't work out to allow a meal.
I admit I cheated: 3 boiled eggs and about a dozen macadamia nuts. Will up cardio to burn those macadamias off.

:(

Woke up at 215.6 Lbs , 14.4lbs lost in 6 days!
I can see changes in the mirror from glycogen depletion and water loss.

Nowadays I inject Test-e subcutaneous. Each injection of 0.5ml with a slin pin, leaves a small bump under the skin, that dissolves in about 3 days. Will stick to this method, it's by far the most comfortable one.
Energy is a tad low and I feel less strong. Today's workout will be a challenge -but I'm eager to go to the gym, because after that: MEAL TIME!
Click to expand...

You're being too harsh on yourself with this NTNM. It could be detrimental to keeping muscle. But, points for holding on for 5days. I don't think there would be a lot of people who could actually pull this off even for 2days. I definitely wouldn't be able to. Salute you, sir.
 
End of day 6:

Workout:

Inclined press machine
230lbs x8
220lbs x9/7

DB hex press flat
2x45lbs x16
2x55lbs x12
2x65lbs x6

Shoulder press machine
110lbs x6
90lbs x12/10

Seated row one armed:
220lbs x9/9/7

Lat pull down narrow grip
170lbs x10/10/10

Landmine press one armed
45lbs x10/10/10
90lbs x8/9

reverse pec deck
160 lbs x10
140lbs x12/10

Linear leg press
500lbs x25/22/18

Leg extensions
3 sets

Face pulls
4 sets

One armed arnold DB press
45lbs x12/12/12

Inclined abs
35/25

Volume is going down as expected, was out of gas after 45min.

Here the one meal for today:

Chicken hearts and pasta:

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jtmass said:
You're being too harsh on yourself with this NTNM. It could be detrimental to keeping muscle. But, points for holding on for 5days. I don't think there would be a lot of people who could actually pull this off even for 2days. I definitely wouldn't be able to. Salute you, sir.
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I tried every diet imaginable before, it has to be "all-out" for me. Thank you for the heads up!
 
Day 7:

Scale: 216lbs (+0.4lbs) , water fluctuation.
Already getting signals that I need more time -or food for recovering. Thinking about a split routine from now on.
Overall feeling good, getting out of bed was a bit of a hassle.
Everything will get more difficult -but I'm mentally prepared!
 
I feel that this thread is lacking something...........











Oh yeah, now I remember........


Something to warm you up by the fire.
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That looks and sounds nasty. If that is all I had to eat I would fast as well! lol


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If you were up to doing just one protein shake a day then this plan would probably help: 3000 cals on workout days...200P, 175f, 400c during Periworkout only... So Intra drink start with 75 grams isolate, and a bunch of gatorade, or whatever you prefer to get some liquid carbs in. Drink throughout workout. Follow up with 1lb sirloin steak 122p, 64fats as a nice base then add in carb sources and healthy fats. Eat the 3000 cals over 2-4 hours then be done with it.

I know it isn't picture perfect here for the minimal supplements thing you are doing now, but you have to consider gastric distress here as well as simplicity. Simply put if gastric distress becomes much of an issue then things like Acid Reflux can plague you and once you get that crap it is a mofo for having really big meals after that. Ideally for you if you can not do the supplements then you will find some easily digested sources of protein and carbs. However for a set up like this trying to cram 2000+ calories into a very small window gastric issues are very likely if you can not use supplements.

As always you know I am watching to see how things go for you and your self experiments!
 
I like chicken hearts !!
 
Rocket3015 said:
I like chicken hearts !!
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I have never had them. Is the consistency anything like liver or a gizzard because that is a HARD NO for me. LOL
 
Chicken hearts are the best. My brothers and I use to fight over it when my mom would cook a whole chicken
 
MrKleen73 said:
I have never had them. Is the consistency anything like liver or a gizzard because that is a HARD NO for me. LOL
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Every time I had them, they were breaded and fried with gizzards and livers. Couldn't really tell much difference between the 3.
 
lukehayd said:
Every time I had them, they were breaded and fried with gizzards and livers. Couldn't really tell much difference between the 3.
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I can't handle the grainy texture of anything like liver. That includes things like lima beans too. That texture just sets off the "GROSS!!!!!" alarm as soon as I begin to chew it.
 
MrKleen73 said:
If you were up to doing just one protein shake a day then this plan would probably help: 3000 cals on workout days...200P, 175f, 400c during Periworkout only... So Intra drink start with 75 grams isolate, and a bunch of gatorade, or whatever you prefer to get some liquid carbs in. Drink throughout workout. Follow up with 1lb sirloin steak 122p, 64fats as a nice base then add in carb sources and healthy fats. Eat the 3000 cals over 2-4 hours then be done with it.

I know it isn't picture perfect here for the minimal supplements thing you are doing now, but you have to consider gastric distress here as well as simplicity. Simply put if gastric distress becomes much of an issue then things like Acid Reflux can plague you and once you get that crap it is a mofo for having really big meals after that. Ideally for you if you can not do the supplements then you will find some easily digested sources of protein and carbs. However for a set up like this trying to cram 2000+ calories into a very small window gastric issues are very likely if you can not use supplements.

As always you know I am watching to see how things go for you and your self experiments!
Click to expand...

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All your advise is sound and I may implement it when it gets really hard -but will not change anything right now, besides upping carbs.
 
MrKleen73 said:
I can't handle the grainy texture of anything like liver. That includes things like lima beans too. That texture just sets off the "GROSS!!!!!" alarm as soon as I begin to chew it.
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Has a somewhat chewy texture, not like liver! Chicken hearts I make once a month with lots of onions and garlic. I cut away most of the fat -and that aorta hanging out.
 
hairygrandpa said:
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All your advise is sound and I may implement it when it gets really hard -but will not change anything right now, besides upping carbs.
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Love the gif, and so very fitting for this scenario!!!

I knew that was going to be the response, even mentioned why but just tossing options out there for when if/when you decide to tweak it for better recovery from your workouts. I know you and your need to be able to work hard, so there is only so long you will trade one off for the other. :) Us intense fools just don't have much choice when it comes to that. Going through the motions is just not in our nature and therefor not maintainable for long!!!!

hairygrandpa said:
Has a somewhat chewy texture, not like liver! Chicken hearts I make once a month with lots of onions and garlic. I cut away most of the fat -and that aorta hanging out.
Click to expand...

So more like a calamari texture? l love me some calamari!!!! I can do chewy like that or tripe not problem. I love that stuff when cooked right!
 
MrKleen73 said:
Love the gif, and so very fitting for this scenario!!!

I knew that was going to be the response, even mentioned why but just tossing options out there for when if/when you decide to tweak it for better recovery from your workouts. I know you and your need to be able to work hard, so there is only so long you will trade one off for the other. :) Us intense fools just don't have much choice when it comes to that. Going through the motions is just not in our nature and therefor not maintainable for long!!!!



So more like a calamari texture? l love me some calamari!!!! I can do chewy like that or tripe not problem. I love that stuff when cooked right!
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Yes, texture like calamari, good comparison! Sh1t...I realized I'm drooling while writing, LOL.
Lets stop the food talk!
 
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Did "off" today, meaning no meal.
Guys, I did it again.... I cheated. Steak, a quarter pound...nothing on the side. Just couldn't restrain me, my wife already had it in the frying pan.

It was delicious!!! I hate myself.
 
SFreed said:
Wow. Here I am, spent 8 hours driving, 6 hours at Corp meetings, and this is what I come home to??

That's it. No more secret nudes for you Mister
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Go look at what I left for you and Kleen in the jugs promo. I'm sure you'll forgive me. ;)
 
hairygrandpa said:
Did "off" today, meaning no meal.
Guys, I did it again.... I cheated. Steak, a quarter pound...nothing on the side. Just couldn't restrain me, my wife already had it in the frying pan.

It was delicious!!! I hate myself.
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Lolz.. Resisting steak would be considered as a federal offense.. No foul.
 
jtmass said:
Lolz.. Resisting steak would be considered as a federal offense.. No foul.
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Right! Federal offense, LOL!

Could not get my azz up and train. Was thinking hard about what muscle isn't fatigued yet and could be trained, didn't found one.
Not a bad cheat, I guess.... about 380kcal for today, mainly protein and a bit of fat. Could have been worse if my wife had baked a pie -or something.
 
hairygrandpa said:
Right! Federal offense, LOL!

Could not get my azz up and train. Was thinking hard about what muscle isn't fatigued yet and could be trained, didn't found one.
Not a bad cheat, I guess.... about 380kcal for today, mainly protein and a bit of fat. Could have been worse if my wife had baked a pie -or something.
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You just gave your muscle some protein to repair the damage done in the gym. So, don't consider this as cheat.

i am sure you don't feel like this after the steak.
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[
hairygrandpa said:
Did "off" today, meaning no meal.
Guys, I did it again.... I cheated. Steak, a quarter pound...nothing on the side. Just couldn't restrain me, my wife already had it in the frying pan.

It was delicious!!! I hate myself.
Click to expand...
Weak sauce!!!! What the F*cK kind of a soup sandwich is this? Get your crap together Maggot!

"This is my fork, and this is my spoon, if I put the wrong things on them then I am a Poon!"

Poontang that is!!!!

Okay there was a little military style motivation. See if that helps! ;)

hairygrandpa said:
Right! Federal offense, LOL!

Could not get my azz up and train. Was thinking hard about what muscle isn't fatigued yet and could be trained, didn't found one.
Not a bad cheat, I guess.... about 380kcal for today, mainly protein and a bit of fat. Could have been worse if my wife had baked a pie -or something.
Click to expand...
I am sure it did not hurt progress, only pride.
jtmass said:
You just gave your muscle some protein to repair the damage done in the gym. So, don't consider this as cheat.

i am sure you don't feel like this after the steak.
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The reason he is considering it as a cheat has nothing to do with if it was healthy or even more beneficial than his actual plan. Just that he went against his plan by having it at all. In reality his recovery ability is obviously already dropping quickly and it probably helped him more than anything.

Somewhere between 24-34 grams of protein and some fats depending on the cut of meat could only aid him in recovery at this point. Definitely not likely to be stored since he isn't actually starving just fasting.
 
hairygrandpa said:
Did "off" today, meaning no meal.
Guys, I did it again.... I cheated. Steak, a quarter pound...nothing on the side. Just couldn't restrain me, my wife already had it in the frying pan.

It was delicious!!! I hate myself.
Click to expand...

I'm disappointed!
 
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Day 8:
Scale says: 217lbs (+1lbs to yesterday)
Scale is an azzhole.
 
Rocket3015 said:
I don't think you can blame the scale, stand up be a man and take responsibility !!
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Scale is working against me, I know him by now, LOL
The other guy, Mirror, is predictable, showing me pictures of the same fat man every day.
 
Chest/Legs

Workout was : "Meh", no enthusiasm, no aggression
-about 35 sets with focus on chest.

Meal will be: Fish fillets + white rice + broccoli
 
Day 9:

Scale is still an azzhole, just ridiculous. If scale is right, I did not had fish for dinner, it was whale -stuffed with skittles.
Time has come to get some help from "Radiate". Got a tub for free for posting boob pics (think about it!).
 
hairygrandpa said:
Day 9:

Scale is still an azzhole, just ridiculous. If scale is right, I did not had fish for dinner, it was whale -stuffed with skittles.
Time has come to get some help from "Radiate". Got a tub for free for posting boob pics (think about it!).
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Mmmmmmm......Skittles
 
hairygrandpa said:
Day 9:

Scale is still an azzhole, just ridiculous. If scale is right, I did not had fish for dinner, it was whale -stuffed with skittles.
Time has come to get some help from "Radiate". Got a tub for free for posting boob pics (think about it!).
Click to expand...

I know of a guy who would say that you have gone to deep into the fasting and low calories with all of the resistance training. That guy would make mention of the fact your recent weight gain is VERY likely water retention from excessively high cortisol levels that will slow fat loss and rob you of hard earned muscle. That guy might suggest IntraWorkout supplementation like carbs and whey isolate to stave off this effect, and prolong the diet. He may even push the subject since you are now willing to introduce supplements to treat symptoms of this situation like a stimmed diet powder. Now that the "keeping as basic as possible" principle is not being used. Perhaps you could consider other supplements that could resolve the issue and clear up the symptoms instead of just tossing something for energy on top of it.

In other words... don't toss gasoline on the fire to get the flames up while your house is burning down... add things to resolve the issue instead if you are going to add something.

I know you do have a plan and are testing a theory or idea out. I know what the results will end up being with the current strategy and am just trying to provide some options to help improve the process, rather than only being a cheerleader for you.
 
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