Mesomorph finally getting dethroned? Extreme dust!

Tmac29 said:
That makes zero sense. And you are literally telling people they have no personal accountability for the things they choose to ingest.

Next thing you know, fat people are going to start suing Nestle for eating too many candy bars "cause they taste good" or Coors for being a drunk.
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Thank you! That was one of the most absurd posts I've seen. Alcohol makes people feel good. So only sell single shots/cans of beer/glasses of wine? Junk food makes people feel good. Single servings it is! Sorry, sir, you can only buy one cigarette today! All three of those can be dangerous if consumed irrationally.

Could you imagine a business only selling single servings, and with a limit to each consumer on top of that! Good luck staying in business.
 
Meh, looks like a stim bomb. You'd need 1.5 scoops to get the clinically studied doses of cit mal or BA which would give you way too much stimulation... Honestly may as well just buy bulk caffeine and DMAA if you want a ton of stims. Will cost less than 10 cents per serving too.

Also in b4 someone who never takes any caffeine decides to double or triple scoop this and ends up in the ER. Could see young or inexperienced lifters doing something stupid like this.
 
BRUstrong said:
Thank you! That was one of the most absurd posts I've seen. Alcohol makes people feel good. So only sell single shots/cans of beer/glasses of wine? Junk food makes people feel good. Single servings it is! Sorry, sir, you can only buy one cigarette today! All three of those can be dangerous if consumed irrationally.

Could you imagine a business only selling single servings, and with a limit to each consumer on top of that! Good luck staying in business.
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x2

Sleep makes me feel good.

15 MINUTES FOR YOU AND NOT A SECOND MORE!!!
 
ssor331 said:
Meh, looks like a stim bomb. You'd need 1.5 scoops to get the clinically studied doses of cit mal or BA which would give you way too much stimulation... Honestly may as well just buy bulk caffeine and DMAA if you want a ton of stims. Will cost less than 10 cents per serving too.

Also in b4 someone who never takes any caffeine decides to double or triple scoop this and ends up in the ER. Could see young or inexperienced lifters doing something stupid like this.
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Yeah no ****. The pre's on the market ate strong enough as is. May as well start snorting blow before the gym if you take this mesomorph product.
 
ssor331 said:
Meh, looks like a stim bomb. You'd need 1.5 scoops to get the clinically studied doses of cit mal or BA which would give you way too much stimulation... Honestly may as well just buy bulk caffeine and DMAA if you want a ton of stims. Will cost less than 10 cents per serving too.

Also in b4 someone who never takes any caffeine decides to double or triple scoop this and ends up in the ER. Could see young or inexperienced lifters doing something stupid like this.
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You can't find bulk DMAA anymore. People are pushing for Hi-Tech to make it though.


But using a couple scoops of this is no different than kids downing 6+ Big Cans of Monsters in a couple hours time (yes it happens)



Edit: Poster above me, you might want to get your products straight, we are talking about Dust Extreme, NOT Mesomorph.
 
Tmac29 said:
You can't find bulk DMAA anymore. People are pushing for Hi-Tech to make it though.


But using a couple scoops of this is no different than kids downing 6+ Big Cans of Monsters in a couple hours time (yes it happens)



Edit: Poster above me, you might want to get your products straight, we are talking about Dust Extreme, NOT Mesomorph.
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Yes, you can buy bulk DMAA in powder (just not caps). Type "bulk dmaa" into google and click the first link. Depending on how much you buy it can cost about 6-9 cents for 25 mg. The difference between powder and energy drinks is it is much more likely for someone to notice bad side effects from caffeine before over-ingesting it since it will take more time to take in all that fluid. You'd need 4 16 oz monsters to get the caffeine content of two scoops of OPs mentioned product. Unless the user was REALLY drinking them fast he'd be able to tell he'd had enough before having too many of them. And there is no DMAA in Monster so it's hard to really compare the two in regards to stimulation TBH.
 
**** man..to all the people saying the manufacturer should take responsibility? You people need to pick a damn side. "The man is taking our suppz!, okay now they need to control them more because they're too good!"

Who cares if it's reckless? Buyer assumes all responsibility upon purchase.
 
Audioph1x said:
**** man..to all the people saying the manufacturer should take responsibility? You people need to pick a damn side. "The man is taking our suppz!, okay now they need to control them more because they're too good!"

Who cares if it's reckless? Buyer assumes all responsibility upon purchase.
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BOOM...MIC DROP
 
Haha. Can't believe this has become a debate on whether or not BSL is irresponsibly loaded the product up with stims. You can see exactly how much of the ingredients your getting. As long as you follow the label and assess your tolerance like you should with every pre workout, you will be fine. The product is nothing "ground breaking" but it nonetheless a solid product. I don't see many people doing a full scoop on this which does take away from some of the ingredients, but this pre workout was obviously geared towards energy/focus. I honestly think this is gonna be a top notch product. Slight changes can make huge differences.
 
Audioph1x said:
**** man..to all the people saying the manufacturer should take responsibility? You people need to pick a damn side. "The man is taking our suppz!, okay now they need to control them more because they're too good!"

Who cares if it's reckless? Buyer assumes all responsibility upon purchase.
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Thank you.


Too many bitching about a nanny FDA, but then want companies held responsible for their moronic choices. You are on the only person that is responsible for you when it comes to ingesting things.
 
Ever hear of addictive personalities? Provide and enable well then be prepared to take full responsibility of your consumer!!! If a coke dealer put "just do two lines" on their bag of **** are they not liable for an overdose?
 
TheMaster said:
Ever hear of addictive personalities? Provide and enable well then be prepared to take full responsibility of your consumer!!! If a coke dealer put "just do two lines" on their bag of **** are they not liable for an overdose?
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Did you just really compare a pre workout to illicit drugs? And no, the dealer is NOT held liable for the persons OD. Just like doctors are not held liable for those that take too many pain pills.


Stop advocating for people not taking any personal responsibility, if you want a nanny state, move somewhere where there is one.



Like I said, do people sue beer companies for being a drunk? No. The judge would laugh them out of the court room.
 
Tmac29 said:
Like I said, do people sue beer companies for being a drunk? No. The judge would laugh them out of the court room.
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No, but the bartender can be sued or held liable in instances where they continued to serve a patron and the patron causes harm to others.
 
Daycrawler said:
No, but the bartender can be sued or held liable in instances where they continued to serve a patron and the patron causes harm to others.
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That rarely happens. And you know it. Its extremely hard to prove that bartender knowingly served a patron booze on purpose with the intent for them to cause them wreck their car.


You guys are really grasping at straws.



Accept responsibility as a consumer. Quit asking for a babysitter.
 
Tmac29 said:
That rarely happens. And you know it. Its extremely hard to prove that bartender knowingly served a patron booze on purpose with the intent for them to cause them wreck their car.


You guys are really grasping at straws.



Accept responsibility as a consumer. Quit asking for a babysitter.
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Yes rare but still happens.

In any case, my point was that the amount of stims in this product seems beyond any reasonable amount that should be in a single scoop of a Preworkout.

I remember when people said the same about Muscle Marinade from Purus.
 
Daycrawler said:
Yes rare but still happens.

In any case, my point was that the amount of stims in this product seems beyond any reasonable amount that should be in a single scoop of a Preworkout.

I remember when people said the same about Muscle Marinade from Purus.
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Yea and you know what happened? People didn't use if they didn't want to. Its ****ing magic how that happens!

I would be considerably more on your side if the it was a giant prop blend.

Its not.

Everything is right there on the label. Do people sue a resturant when they ordered the hottest wings on the menu and it says on the menu "made with Ghost Chilli's, extremely hot"?

No.

Because they have a brain
 
as long as stuff like this is appropriately labeled, warned, and put out in the open...I am all for it. It's up to people to buy what they feel is right for them, not just indiscriminately dump powders into their mouth and just hope for the best.
 
TheMaster said:
Ever hear of addictive personalities? Provide and enable well then be prepared to take full responsibility of your consumer!!! If a coke dealer put "just do two lines" on their bag of **** are they not liable for an overdose?
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Why would anyone other than yourself take responsibility for your actions? That's ridiculous. A reasonable person would believe that you, the buyer, take full responsibility for what you ingest, illicit or otherwise.
 
Daycrawler said:
Yes rare but still happens.

In any case, my point was that the amount of stims in this product seems beyond any reasonable amount that should be in a single scoop of a Preworkout.

I remember when people said the same about Muscle Marinade from Purus.
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Exactly and a person must be one pathetic mother****er if they can't get a good feeling off of caffeine alone. Yeah keep doing that DMAA garbage cause you need it to get you jacked for the gym. How ****ing stupid!

Now on the other hand I do understand that once in a while everyone can use a good kick in the ass such as when they have leg day or a punishing chest day. But to rely on **** like this day in and day out is just not a good sign that you really are cut out for the gym or the lifestyle.
 
I can't believe people are actually advocating for a company to be held liable for an open label product that is high in stims.


OPEN LABEL.


I feel like I'm taking ****ing crazy pills.



Lol. "I don't like this product, so you are pathetic" lol. Just lol.
 
Audioph1x said:
Why would anyone other than yourself take responsibility for your actions? That's ridiculous. A reasonable person would believe that you, the buyer, take full responsibility for what you ingest, illicit or otherwise.
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The provider is just as responsible as the consumer. Especially when you give them a full tub of ****!
 
TheMaster said:
Exactly and a person must be one pathetic mother****er if they can't get a good feeling off of caffeine alone. Yeah keep doing that DMAA garbage cause you need it to get you jacked for the gym. How ****ing stupid!

Now on the other hand I do understand that once in a while everyone can use a good kick in the ass such as when they have leg day or a punishing chest day. But to rely on **** like this day in and day out is just not a good sign that you really are cut out for the gym or the lifestyle.
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What? I don't think anyone is saying they NEED this stuff to workout, just that it sure makes it a bit easier.


Why do you draw the line at DMAA? I personally don't use any stims prior to gym time, so should I look down on you for needed to dope yourself up with the most commonly abused drug in the entire western world, caffeine?


Just because caffeine is more common than DMAA doesn't mean its any better, or should be viewed in any different light. A stim is a stim is a stim.
 
TheMaster said:
The provider is just as responsible as the consumer. Especially when you give them a full tub of ****!
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Just stop. We realize you need someone to coddle you and tell you that all the bad companies will be be sued into oblivion for your moronic choices.
 
VaughnTrue said:
What? I don't think anyone is saying they NEED this stuff to workout, just that it sure makes it a bit easier.


Why do you draw the line at DMAA? I personally don't use any stims prior to gym time, so should I look down on you for needed to dope yourself up with the most commonly abused drug in the entire western world, caffeine?


Just because caffeine is more common than DMAA doesn't mean its any better, or should be viewed in any different light. A stim is a stim is a stim.
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Good point and respected.
 
TheMaster said:
Good point and respected.
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Don't think I'm sitting here and attacking you, I'm not. I'm just trying to show you why others may not agree with your viewpoint.

It's easy to finger point and tell people "you dont need that crap!" when in reality, you dont need ANY of this crap...but we all love to try it out and use the stuff that works for us. It's exciting to take a product and feel a distinct difference...especially with how intense DMAA can be.


Now, after all that, I think I'm gonna have to dose some DMAA tonight before I train, got myself all amped up.
 
Daycrawler said:
Yes rare but still happens.

In any case, my point was that the amount of stims in this product seems beyond any reasonable amount that should be in a single scoop of a Preworkout.

I remember when people said the same about Muscle Marinade from Purus.
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This. Nothing wrong with caff or DMAA for responsible users who know what they are doing... It's people who don't follow directions or are ignorant about ingredients/dosages that ruin things for everyone else. Products that include 350 mg of caff and 75 mg of DMAA (not to mention some added huperzine) in a scoop make the chance of idiots screwing things up more likely. Believe it or not most users of preworkout aren't educated on doses and ingredients like members of AM are. This is why we can't have nice things. How much DMAA and caff did the OG Jack3d have? Maybe a third as much per scoop? Yet a couple people still managed to screw that one up. I think we all could agree that we don't want another FDA crackdown.
 
ssor331 said:
This. Nothing wrong with caff or DMAA for responsible users who know what they are doing... It's people who don't follow directions or are ignorant about ingredients/dosages that ruin things for everyone else. Products that include 350 mg of caff and 75 mg of DMAA (not to mention some added huperzine) in a scoop make the chance of idiots screwing things up more likely. Believe it or not most users of preworkout aren't educated on doses and ingredients like members of AM are. This is why we can't have nice things. How much DMAA and caff did the OG Jack3d have? Maybe a third as much per scoop? Yet a couple people still managed to screw that one up. I think we all could agree that we don't want another FDA crackdown.
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how did people manage to screw up with Jack3d? It had nothing to do with the stim dosing, just FDA attacking an ingredient which showed no adverse health effects in all reality.

It had 100mg caff/25mg DMAA/scoop, and most people dosed it at 3 scoops which was the max suggested dosing on the label.
 
TheMaster said:
The provider is just as responsible as the consumer. Especially when you give them a full tub of ****!
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You seriously make me want to bang my head against a wall. I am just going to breathe. I'm not going to school you on the actual law here in America, mainly because I don't want to hear crap from @TinGorilla about me being an attorney. But as a litigator at a business firm, I spend a lot of time working on products liability cases for our clients in the manufacturing and pharmaceutical industries. You honestly sound so stupid right now. Not even from just a legal standpoint, but also from business AND common sense standpoints as well.

Also, if you want to make a comparison to bartenders, most state's dram shop laws do NOT allow for recovery for injuries/death suffered by the person consuming the alcohol. It's called assumption of the risk. There is generally no recovery if someone drinks himself to death at a bar, or injuries himself in some other fashion.

If you're that concerned with the product, why don't you go start a petition. Or maybe just be a "reasonable" consumer and exercise your right to not purchase it? Either way, good luck my friend.
 
This thread feels like the perfect place to discuss whether appropriate action was taken this past weekend when a gorilla was shot...lol



But seriously -- non prop. blends = just fine. Not a product I got overly excited about when seeing, but that's just my personal take on it. I do enjoy non prop. blends when it comes to things, though; especially stimulants.
 
MidwestBeast said:
This thread feels like the perfect place to discuss whether appropriate action was taken this past weekend when a gorilla was shot...lol



But seriously -- non prop. blends = just fine. Not a product I got overly excited about when seeing, but that's just my personal take on it. I do enjoy non prop. blends when it comes to things, though; especially stimulants.
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Could not agree with this post more...this thread hurts my head
 
MidwestBeast said:
This thread feels like the perfect place to discuss whether appropriate action was taken this past weekend when a gorilla was shot...lol



But seriously -- non prop. blends = just fine. Not a product I got overly excited about when seeing, but that's just my personal take on it. I do enjoy non prop. blends when it comes to things, though; especially stimulants.
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R.I.P. Harambe...brb, pouring out a little Dust Extreme for my gorilla homie.
 
I can go up to 600mg of caffeine and 100mg of DMAA without a problem provided the product lists the amounts clearly. This product is a step above mesomorph being an open formula. I don't understand why the F--k people are complaining about it being overdosed...if it's too much for you then simply Do Not buy or use this product. I hope htp takes notice and open up the mesomorph formula...
 
bashar said:
I can go up to 600mg of caffeine and 100mg of DMAA without a problem provided the product lists the amounts clearly. This product is a step above mesomorph being an open formula. I don't understand why the F--k people are complaining about it being overdosed...if it's too much for you then simply Do Not buy or use this product. I hope htp takes notice and open up the mesomorph formula...
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Don't they disclose the amount of caff and DMAA? I've seen Vaughn mention the amount a couple of times.
 
Tmac29 said:
Don't they disclose the amount of caff and DMAA? I've seen Vaughn mention the amount a couple of times.
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60 DMAA and 325 caffeine if I'm not mistaken
 
bashar said:
I can go up to 600mg of caffeine and 100mg of DMAA without a problem provided the product lists the amounts clearly. This product is a step above mesomorph being an open formula. I don't understand why the F--k people are complaining about it being overdosed...if it's too much for you then simply Do Not buy or use this product. I hope htp takes notice and open up the mesomorph formula...
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we've publicly announced the mesomoprh formula. 300mg caffeine, 65mg DMAA, 4g BA is what I have personally seen released, but after that its pretty easy to decipher the whole formula give or take.

IFN is working on a new product right now that will be 100% open label and includes DMAA
 
Lmfao at this thread.

Buyer assumes responsibility? What about prop blended products? Now sure, warning says not to use more than one scoop and by virtue they don't, but how many times do you hear people say "I never go past half a scoop because dem stimzzz"?

So I use one scoop, heart starts pounding and I start freaking, but label says dont exceed one?

Manufacturers have responsibility as well. Jesus
 
Woody said:
YAH GORILLAS > INNOCENT CHILDREN!!!!!! GRAB YOUR PITCH FORKS!!!!!!!!!!!
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The kid climbed over. There's a fence for a reason. Sure, he's young and sure it was the only option but you can't blame an animal when you climb into their space
 
Jiigzz said:
Lmfao at this thread.

Buyer assumes responsibility? What about prop blended products? Now sure, warning says not to use more than one scoop and by virtue they don't, but how many times do you hear people say "I never go past half a scoop because dem stimzzz"?

So I use one scoop, heart starts pounding and I start freaking, but label says dont exceed one?

Manufacturers have responsibility as well. Jesus
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except we're discussing a non-proprietary blend in this thread...
 
VaughnTrue said:
except we're discussing a non-proprietary blend in this thread...
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Im aware, which is why I stated what about non prop. Same argument can be made for non prop if a buyer has NO idea how 75mg of DMAA will feel, or even what it is.

A non regular supp user buys a pre workout containing 350mg caffeine, 75mg DMAA, 50mg higanamine, a d who knows what else, but is only aware that caffeine is a stim.

Sure, they can look it up but cmon, that doesn't happen and they won't spend 1hr researching everything on a label, especially for stims that have no safety data (pre DMAA studies, now these new stimulants).

Manufacturers have due care as well.
 
VaughnTrue said:
except we're discussing a non-proprietary blend in this thread...
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Exactly. Nobody is saying that manufacturer's should be absolved of liability. This is about a product, with a transparent label, and adequate warnings. If you hide your ingredients/doses, or spike your product with something, then yes, the manufacturer should face some liability. But, as you point out, that's not what we are discussing.
 
If people are not wise enough to research anything they are ingesting, then maybe Darwin just needs to take effect.



The fact we have to put "do not ingest" on bleach bottles tells me the human race is doomed.
 
Jiigzz said:
Im aware, which is why I stated what about non prop. Same argument can be made for non prop if a buyer has NO idea how 75mg of DMAA will feel, or even what it is.

A non regular supp user buys a pre workout containing 350mg caffeine, 75mg DMAA, 50mg higanamine, a d who knows what else, but is only aware that caffeine is a stim.

Sure, they can look it up but cmon, that doesn't happen and they won't spend 1hr researching everything on a label, especially for stims that have no safety data (pre DMAA studies, now these new stimulants).

Manufacturers have due care as well.
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Based on this argument, the only solution is to take all other stimulants out of pre workouts
 
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