yates84
Well-known member
Ralox for sure. Prami will only help with prolactin where ralox is a serm and has a very high affinity for estrogen receptors in breast tissue. Ralox and exemestane knocked my gyno completely out in less than 2 weeks.
SARM's, MK, & GW : A User's Guide
- Thread starter The Press
- Start date
yates84
Well-known member
yates84
Well-known member
If you do any kind of night driving or need to see in the dark ( and I know you do both of these ) I would definitely not reccomend s4. Different users experience different levels of vision sides but the "night blindness" is pretty common among users.
yates84
Well-known member
Definitely stay away from s4 then. About the closest alternative would be rad140 as far as strength and hardness is concerned.
WAF
Active member
Noted thanks, yah i haven't heard anything good after its been out for awhile. Already got RAD-140 on deck bro, waiting as i build up the stock for my next run.
strickamania
New member
Update**
So I'm not bashing the products from OL but I've been on 2 caps EnduraShred and 1 cap Cardar1ne for one month at 1500 calories a day with my goal of fat loss. My BMR is roughly 1800 cals. I have only lost 1 pound and I feel like I'm working harder than ever in the gym and turning down pizza and burgers for salads ando chicken breasts
Again, not trying to say these products are bunk but I would like to ask again, has anyone legit cycled one or both of these products and seen fat loss?
So I'm not bashing the products from OL but I've been on 2 caps EnduraShred and 1 cap Cardar1ne for one month at 1500 calories a day with my goal of fat loss. My BMR is roughly 1800 cals. I have only lost 1 pound and I feel like I'm working harder than ever in the gym and turning down pizza and burgers for salads ando chicken breasts
Again, not trying to say these products are bunk but I would like to ask again, has anyone legit cycled one or both of these products and seen fat loss?
clown007
Well-known member
I didn't find Ostarine begin to shine until the second month, and then it was quite remarkable. I had terrific recomp effects running 10 weeks of Ostarine at 25mg. Also Ostarine had great effects on my joints- my knee health improved (and has since remained) greatly.
As for Carderine, I find the best benefit is the endurance increases which lead to shorter rest periods during weight training, and more intense cardio sessions. It was this that lead to the fat loss I saw as well.
Also just because the scale only changed by one pound doesn't mean there aren't overall changes. You could be building muscle while losing fat so the overall scale change may only be one pound when in fact there is far greater changes happening.
Give it some time. If your diet and training is in place you will see some recomp for sure.
I am a strong proponent of OL products, and when specifically speaking of Ostarine and Carderine- they are great products indeed.
NewAgeMayan
Well-known member
Have you been taking body measurements other than scale ie tape measure waist etc
strickamania
New member
Yes, my waist is down 1 inch, which is great but just not the results I was expecting with my dedication. And aren't you supposed to only run Ostarine at a max of 10 weeks? It kind of sucks if it doesn't really kick in till the 2nd month which is basically week 6.
GreenMachineX
Well-known member
I've run both 12 week and 16 week cycles of it. Loved it.
strickamania
New member
Was your goal fat loss? And at what week did you start pct if at all?
clown007
Well-known member
No, I'd expect to start seeing results after the first month- 4 weeks, so that gives you six weeks of noticeable results. Mind you there are obviously individual differences so some people may experience things earlier, some later... Thus far, Ostarine has been the best compound I have used.
NewAgeMayan
Well-known member
Keep in mind too that Ostarine will be a potent anti-catabolic during a cut, certainly more potent than any natty compound.
Thats how I look at Osta, in terms of expectation (that it will minimise muscle loss during kcal deficit).
Thats how I look at Osta, in terms of expectation (that it will minimise muscle loss during kcal deficit).
clown007
Well-known member
Totally agree. The not only did I lean out with Ostarine but vascularity and strength increased. Muscle size increased to a lesser degree as well.
LGD gave a bigger size kick but for me the lethargy was pretty strong. Ostarine had no side effects for me and provided a ton of noticeable benefits.
LGD gave a bigger size kick but for me the lethargy was pretty strong. Ostarine had no side effects for me and provided a ton of noticeable benefits.
strickamania
New member
Would someone with experience with Osta and GW recommend a certain diet for fat loss? I've previously went from 320 to 180, now i'm back to 240 pounds and the same methods aren't really working.
cubs1987
Well-known member
I've seen 20-25mg being the recommended dosage, yet other running it at 10-15mg... what did you run it at and what was your sweet spot?
DNME24
New member
Was the lethargy that bad? As im about to do an LGD run for the first time.
NewAgeMayan
Well-known member
If he has time Hastur may have some advice on this, try pm him.
HardB0iled
Active member
SARM's, MK, & GW : A User's Guide
I'm at the end of week seven of an LGD + MK (mass gh) run. The lethargy did get pretty bad but I also wasn't running a test base. I introduced Tr3st at the beginning of week 6 and it's made a world of difference both with lethargy and libido.
I am currently up 12 lbs. my strength gains have been phenomenal. I would do it again in a heart beat... But running Tr3st from the get go.
I'm at the end of week seven of an LGD + MK (mass gh) run. The lethargy did get pretty bad but I also wasn't running a test base. I introduced Tr3st at the beginning of week 6 and it's made a world of difference both with lethargy and libido.
I am currently up 12 lbs. my strength gains have been phenomenal. I would do it again in a heart beat... But running Tr3st from the get go.
clown007
Well-known member
Hard to say without diet specifics.
Could you post a sample day or two of your intake and quantities?
clown007
Well-known member
I started with 20mg for 4 weeks and then went to 25mg for the duration. I had absolutely no sides with it and PCT was a breeze.
I'd do another run next time with 4 weeks of RAD to begin with while also including a test base since RAD is quite suppressive from what others have said.
As I said I thought Ostarine was great!
fro60ol
Active member
I am starting a rad/osta with trest shortly ( waiting on the rad)
BamBam0319
Well-known member
My next cycle is RAD, LGD, MK 677, oral and TD trest. I also have a surplus of ostarine but not sure id really benefit from adding it in to what I already have.
fro60ol
Active member
I am going to log it once I start I will link it up here so you can follow it.... I am really excited to start
CJNator
Well-known member
Imo save the Ostarine but ****! What will your dosages look like?
fro60ol
Active member
I am going to save my mk 677 for pct
BamBam0319
Well-known member
RAD 8mg weeks 1-3
LGD 8mg weeks 1-6
MK 677 10mg throughout cycle and PCT, and beyond
Oral trest 50mg PWO weeks 1-8
Dermatrest 25mg weeks 1-8 might bump to 50mg
Might bridge into something else after LGD drops, but we'll see.
I have enough for at least 8months continuous usage so I'll be starting about 4 weeks prior to the beginning of my cycle, and run it through the cycle and pct.
clown007
Well-known member
I'm interested to follow your experience with these. I wonder how the lethargy will be with LGD and RAD together? I'm sure the Trest will off-set it though.
BamBam0319
Well-known member
I'll probably log it so when I start it at the beginning of February I'll try to remember to throw a link up. I imagine the trest will do fairly well at preventing lethargy, from all I've heard about it.
fro60ol
Active member
Awesome! Yea I don't have that much to run it that long I would love too tho
WAF
Active member
I'm planning the same but with Osta and without TD Trest. Ill be continuing laxo and epicat throughout. I'm a lil leary on throwing YK-11 in there as not much has been studied on it, and too many unknowns. Not to mention AAS
So far my favorites have been MK-677 and Osta....LGD is great but i get so damn tired, it's like a bunch of pigme warriors following me around shooting me with tranq darts LOL.
hairygrandpa
Legend
Apparently, GH is only anabolic in a high test environment, I posted a link to an article two weeks ago, meaning it's almost worthless for PCT.
pyrobatt
Well-known member
Anything that directly or indirectly increases igf1 is valuable in pct.
yates84
Well-known member
I definitely agree^^^
In pct you aren't looking for anabolic effect anyway, it's all about getting back to baseline. Gharine/mk677 is great on or off cycle and for many different reasons.
kboxer7
Well-known member
I respectfully disagree. While it doesn't directly contribute to muscle growth, the following holds true:
Possible benefits of HGH:
a. Reduces excess body fat
b. Indirectly aids in increasing muscle mass
c. Reduces wrinkling of the skin and some other effects of skin aging.
d. Re-grows certain internal organs that have atrophied with age.
e. Increases bone density.
f. Strengthens the immune system.
g. Possibly reverses cognitive decline.
h. Stimulates production of the bone marrow cells that produce red blood cells.
i. Slows the progression of cardiovascular disease
j. Improves lipid profile
By age of 30, our HGH levels are only about 20 percent of their peak levels during childhood. Past age 30, GH levels continue to decline at a rate of about 12-15% every 10 years
zman86
Member
Yep I'm 29 y/o and Mk677 will be a major component of both on/off cycle regime.
Toren
Well-known member
The potential benefits of HGH use are well documented and I like the idea of using a supplement that allows our body to 'naturally' increase it's production while not abusing it.
To the question of whether or not one should use it during a cycle or during PCT, I would say one would be better served using it on cycle, and for a few reasons. First, cycles are generally longer in duration (6-12 weeks on average) than a typical 4 week PCT. To see positive benefits from increased HGH production (other then improved sleep), HGH or HGH-promoting compounds should be used for longer periods of time then most people will use them. Most guys like to use a bottle or two of a particular substance and then move on to the next newest thing. Second, HGH really does shine when combined with high levels of other anabolic compounds. It has long been considered as the holy grail in the bodybuilding world when you can combine gear with HGH. Lastly, most guys tend to train much harder on cycle and are at an increased risk for injuries and will greatly benefit from the increased reparitive properties of higher than norml levels of HGH/IGF-1 while on cycle.
Having said that, I think using compounds like MK-677 during PCT has its benefits as well. I just think a lot of PCT users will expect some type of miracle during their 30 capsule run of MK-677 during PCT. As far as increasing HGH/IGF-1 during PCT, that can also be done with whey protein/dairy/amino acids, short-burst high intensity training, formestane, and even creatine. There is no doubt though that increased IGF-1 (HGH) during PCT will help with muscle retention after your cycle, as well as healing/regenerating damaged tissues.
The best of both worlds would be to run a compound like MK-677 during the cycle as well as during the post cycle period. On cycle for increased synergism, growth and repair when stacked with other anabolics; During PCT for muscle retention and overall recovery.
It's pretty amazing what HGH/IGF-1 can do within the body. The amount or growth and regeneration it can stimulate is quite impressive, especially when levels are artifically inflated for longer duations of time. Of course, with all that good, there must be some bad too, right? There have been studies that show all that increased growth can lead to increased stress on the body over long periods of time. There have also been non-human studies that show elevated levels of IGF-1 will equate to a shortened lifespan. Also, the ability for IGF-1 to affect cell apoptosis means it may also keep the body from ridding itself of pre-cancerous cells prior to them becoming cancerous. You didn't think all that growth was free did you?
Some of us here are familiar with the knowledge that extreme things lead to extreme outcomes, and the outcomes are not always as we desire. You are told to live an active, healthy lifestyle and not to abuse your body. As bodybuilders, we do things like train beyond where we 'should' with the ultimate goal of being bigger, better, faster and stronger. The exercise can be great for us but excessive amounts of it can also be a degenerative factor on our joints and even our endocrine sytem when 'supplementation' is factored in.
Eating healthy food is great for us but as bodybuilders we take that to the extreme. We slam our faces full of food with the hope of getting bigger, better, faster and stronger. Once again, it had been shown that eating copious amounts of food can lead to more oxidative stress on our bodies and can prematurely age our organs that have to deal with all of the excess. People who eat in moderation are generally better off then bodybuilders that are constantly trying to slam 5000 kcal into their bodies everyday. Let's not even begin with the extreme of heavy bulking and cutting that professional body builders do year 'round. That is a lot of stress on the body. Again, there is always a trade-off.
In my humble opinion, It's no different with artificially raising IGF-1/HGH levels for VERY long periods of time. We are doing something that is naturally out of the normal range of what our bodies would normally do (abnormal HGH deficiencies not withstanding). As we age, our bodies naurally decrease HGH production and I believe that is for a reason and that the reason is natural to the human species. As our cells age and our DNA begins to break down, cell apoptosis needs to take place at an increased rate (not a decreased rate from increased IGF-1) in order for our bodies to stay as healthy as possible for as long as possible. Without the ability for our bodies to kill off damaged cells, we would all have a very poor life that I do not think would last very long. This above consideration is another reason why taking anti-oxidants and catechins such as resveratrol and green tea extract (EGCG) is also a good idea when using substances that can affect cell apoptosis. The anti-oxidants and anti-oxidant promoting compounds (such as EGCG) can help to protect DNA from degredation when the cellular structure has been allowed to live beyond its regular programmed life cycle.
Now, don't think I am bashing the use of HGH, I am not. I am taking MK-677 as we speak and while not all positve, I can see some benefits and am willing to continue with it's use for a decent period of time. My aim will be to see what type of cellular repair I can do while keeping an eye on how my body is changing as well. I think the best use of an HGH secretagogue is to use it for a long enough duration of time to see benefits while not trying to be so greedy as to push the envelope beyond what our bodies can handle. For every positive aspect of increased HGH production there has to be some sort of coinciding action that we may not see as beneficial to the human body. I think there is so much to the natural homesostasis of the human body that is and will forever be very far beyond the grasp of our humanity. Some of the complexities of the human body may be a secret for a reason afterall; self-preservation anybody? Human nature will keep pushing that envelope though, and I have no problem with that. It is what makes us human and all that I have written should just be a consideration, no more no less, of our individual humanity and how we choose to go about exploring that individuality.
Now, bring on dem gains bruh! (with an open mind of course)
To the question of whether or not one should use it during a cycle or during PCT, I would say one would be better served using it on cycle, and for a few reasons. First, cycles are generally longer in duration (6-12 weeks on average) than a typical 4 week PCT. To see positive benefits from increased HGH production (other then improved sleep), HGH or HGH-promoting compounds should be used for longer periods of time then most people will use them. Most guys like to use a bottle or two of a particular substance and then move on to the next newest thing. Second, HGH really does shine when combined with high levels of other anabolic compounds. It has long been considered as the holy grail in the bodybuilding world when you can combine gear with HGH. Lastly, most guys tend to train much harder on cycle and are at an increased risk for injuries and will greatly benefit from the increased reparitive properties of higher than norml levels of HGH/IGF-1 while on cycle.
Having said that, I think using compounds like MK-677 during PCT has its benefits as well. I just think a lot of PCT users will expect some type of miracle during their 30 capsule run of MK-677 during PCT. As far as increasing HGH/IGF-1 during PCT, that can also be done with whey protein/dairy/amino acids, short-burst high intensity training, formestane, and even creatine. There is no doubt though that increased IGF-1 (HGH) during PCT will help with muscle retention after your cycle, as well as healing/regenerating damaged tissues.
The best of both worlds would be to run a compound like MK-677 during the cycle as well as during the post cycle period. On cycle for increased synergism, growth and repair when stacked with other anabolics; During PCT for muscle retention and overall recovery.
It's pretty amazing what HGH/IGF-1 can do within the body. The amount or growth and regeneration it can stimulate is quite impressive, especially when levels are artifically inflated for longer duations of time. Of course, with all that good, there must be some bad too, right? There have been studies that show all that increased growth can lead to increased stress on the body over long periods of time. There have also been non-human studies that show elevated levels of IGF-1 will equate to a shortened lifespan. Also, the ability for IGF-1 to affect cell apoptosis means it may also keep the body from ridding itself of pre-cancerous cells prior to them becoming cancerous. You didn't think all that growth was free did you?
Some of us here are familiar with the knowledge that extreme things lead to extreme outcomes, and the outcomes are not always as we desire. You are told to live an active, healthy lifestyle and not to abuse your body. As bodybuilders, we do things like train beyond where we 'should' with the ultimate goal of being bigger, better, faster and stronger. The exercise can be great for us but excessive amounts of it can also be a degenerative factor on our joints and even our endocrine sytem when 'supplementation' is factored in.
Eating healthy food is great for us but as bodybuilders we take that to the extreme. We slam our faces full of food with the hope of getting bigger, better, faster and stronger. Once again, it had been shown that eating copious amounts of food can lead to more oxidative stress on our bodies and can prematurely age our organs that have to deal with all of the excess. People who eat in moderation are generally better off then bodybuilders that are constantly trying to slam 5000 kcal into their bodies everyday. Let's not even begin with the extreme of heavy bulking and cutting that professional body builders do year 'round. That is a lot of stress on the body. Again, there is always a trade-off.
In my humble opinion, It's no different with artificially raising IGF-1/HGH levels for VERY long periods of time. We are doing something that is naturally out of the normal range of what our bodies would normally do (abnormal HGH deficiencies not withstanding). As we age, our bodies naurally decrease HGH production and I believe that is for a reason and that the reason is natural to the human species. As our cells age and our DNA begins to break down, cell apoptosis needs to take place at an increased rate (not a decreased rate from increased IGF-1) in order for our bodies to stay as healthy as possible for as long as possible. Without the ability for our bodies to kill off damaged cells, we would all have a very poor life that I do not think would last very long. This above consideration is another reason why taking anti-oxidants and catechins such as resveratrol and green tea extract (EGCG) is also a good idea when using substances that can affect cell apoptosis. The anti-oxidants and anti-oxidant promoting compounds (such as EGCG) can help to protect DNA from degredation when the cellular structure has been allowed to live beyond its regular programmed life cycle.
Now, don't think I am bashing the use of HGH, I am not. I am taking MK-677 as we speak and while not all positve, I can see some benefits and am willing to continue with it's use for a decent period of time. My aim will be to see what type of cellular repair I can do while keeping an eye on how my body is changing as well. I think the best use of an HGH secretagogue is to use it for a long enough duration of time to see benefits while not trying to be so greedy as to push the envelope beyond what our bodies can handle. For every positive aspect of increased HGH production there has to be some sort of coinciding action that we may not see as beneficial to the human body. I think there is so much to the natural homesostasis of the human body that is and will forever be very far beyond the grasp of our humanity. Some of the complexities of the human body may be a secret for a reason afterall; self-preservation anybody? Human nature will keep pushing that envelope though, and I have no problem with that. It is what makes us human and all that I have written should just be a consideration, no more no less, of our individual humanity and how we choose to go about exploring that individuality.
Now, bring on dem gains bruh! (with an open mind of course)
bighulksmash
Legend
Anyone know anything about HMG?
strickamania
New member
It's pretty basic and boring, steel cut oats and whey shake for breakfast, chicken breast and broccoli for lunch, power crunch or cliff bar as a snack, whey shake and almonds, cottage cheese. Extra whey on workout days... I think my metabolism might just be jacked up from being very obese a few years back
clown007
Well-known member
What are the quantities of the foods you are eating?
If you record your meals for a few days you can see what your calorie intake is, as well as your macronutrient breakdown; you will be able to get a better grasp of what your diet looks like.
An app like MyFitnessPal can help you log your food intake easily and accurately.
After a few days with an app like that you can post up your calorie intake and macros and people will be able to give you more useful dietary information.
cheeky1
Active member
As an aside for the MK - lethargy link. I reintroduced Mk in the form of 10mg of Ghar1ne daily during pct with a view to a loooong run of it. I got tired, really quickly. After a week I stopped taking it as it was the only change to my routine at that point & a week later that dratted daytime lethargy subsided. Culprit found.
I have dermatrest on the way & dermacrine on hand. I know many of you guys are big trest fans, any thoughts on the dermacrine with MK as i'd like to get back on it asap - just not with this debilitating lethargy. My stinkin sleep apnoea & slightly average adrenals mean it's almost unbearable & i'm not going back to the ridiculous volume of stims I was using to get through the day last MK cycle. I have used dermacrine before & liked it, but can't recall the energy boost it gave (if any).
Also, any timeframe for the lethargy subsiding? I remember 2 weeks for some, longer for others. Anyone just unable to shake the tiredness even after 4+ weeks?
I have dermatrest on the way & dermacrine on hand. I know many of you guys are big trest fans, any thoughts on the dermacrine with MK as i'd like to get back on it asap - just not with this debilitating lethargy. My stinkin sleep apnoea & slightly average adrenals mean it's almost unbearable & i'm not going back to the ridiculous volume of stims I was using to get through the day last MK cycle. I have used dermacrine before & liked it, but can't recall the energy boost it gave (if any).
Also, any timeframe for the lethargy subsiding? I remember 2 weeks for some, longer for others. Anyone just unable to shake the tiredness even after 4+ weeks?
strickamania
New member
Thanks I'll try that, I known my ending calories including those burned from workouts are between 1200-1600, I don't belive in the starvation mode crap but I guess something isn't right, I'm also taking the sarms and working out on an empty stomach.
NewAgeMayan
Well-known member
No-overlap-bridge them instead of stacking ie run lgd for 6-8wks then rad for 4
strickamania
New member
Another thing i'd like to add is, i'm taking 21mg of GW a day because i heard thats an optimal fat loss dose. is there any truth to that or would 14mg with osta be plenty?