Shin Sprints
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Yup, that is a good analogy.If your actual nipples are hard like if you walked into cold water that would be Letrone.
Why? I thought it reduces estrogen. Should I stop dosing?
Thanks.
Yup, that is a good analogy.If your actual nipples are hard like if you walked into cold water that would be Letrone.
He was referring to the post before yoursBodyweight exercises? Why?
How do I keep blood levels stable? What blood levels?
Thanks.
Lol...got itHe was referring to the post before yours
It had a diuretic effect, makes my nose all itchy and skin dry.Yup, that is a good analogy.
Why? I thought it reduces estrogen. Should I stop dosing?
Thanks.
If it concerns you, see a physician. It's very hard to diagnose an issue over a forum, and now with more symptoms that may or may not be related, its too much too read into. I can't say that I've personally heard the erect nipple symptom related to any of those supplements, but with Viron and Letrone not being products of ours, I'm not as up to date or well-versed regarding them. But again, if you are concerned, seeking a physician is likely your best course of action.Okay, I don't want to sound like a hypochondriac but rash is still there but doesn't seem to be getting any worse.
However, my nipples seem to be very "erect" for want of a better word. They have always tended towards that but right now they look even more so...not itchy but are hard and if pressed are somewhat sensitive, not sore definitely feel different.
I can't see it being Viron causing this but not sure what else. Currently 3 week into 2xViron, 2xLetrone and 2nd week of 1xCardar1ne (upped to 2x this morning) and 1xGher1ne.
Any insight?
Thanks.
Not concerned as yet but curious as to the occurrence.If it concerns you, see a physician. It's very hard to diagnose an issue over a forum, and now with more symptoms that may or may not be related, its too much too read into. I can't say that I've personally heard the erect nipple symptom related to any of those supplements, but with Viron and Letrone not being products of ours, I'm not as up to date or well-versed regarding them. But again, if you are concerned, seeking a physician is likely your best course of action.
Of course, I understand. I wish I could be of more help to you, but I will say that I don't believe that the rash and erect nipples are linked. As for potential estrogen issues, if you are experiencing them, they are not occurring from Cardar1ne or Ghar1ne, as neither have the potential to affect estrogen. Have you asked anyone regarding Letrone and Viron? One of the company reps?Not concerned as yet but curious as to the occurrence.
I will monitor some more and then decide.
I had blood tests three weeks ago and all was good...I just can't imagine that I would be having estro issues from the stack.
I didn't think it Cardar1ne or Ghar1ne.Of course, I understand. I wish I could be of more help to you, but I will say that I don't believe that the rash and erect nipples are linked. As for potential estrogen issues, if you are experiencing them, they are not occurring from Cardar1ne or Ghar1ne, as neither have the potential to affect estrogen. Have you asked anyone regarding Letrone and Viron? One of the company reps?
Oh, I didn't mean to imply you were saying they were to blame, I simply felt the need to point out that I don't believe either to be responsible and since there are products you are using we don't produce perhaps a rep for that company would be able to help! Text can be messy, I meant to convey no hostility or put words in your mouth, friend! I truly hope you are able to resolve your issue!I didn't think it Cardar1ne or Ghar1ne.
On Cardar1ne I believe I am seeing increase in endurance. One week in, upped to 2xpre.
I don't want to double post so will see of anyone chimes in here, if not, I will post to BLR.
No, no offence taken whatsoeverOh, I didn't mean to imply you were saying they were to blame, I simply felt the need to point out that I don't believe either to be responsible and since there are products you are using we don't produce perhaps a rep for that company would be able to help! Text can be messy, I meant to convey no hostility or put words in your mouth, friend! I truly hope you are able to resolve your issue!
Excellent. Well perhaps someone can give you answer soon regarding your issues, at least the rash isn't getting progressively worse. Though I wouldn't enjoy nipple sensitivity...No, no offence taken whatsoever
I knew where you were coming from.
Thanks.
Of course, I understand. I wish I could be of more help to you, but I will say that I don't believe that the rash and erect nipples are linked. As for potential estrogen issues, if you are experiencing them, they are not occurring from Cardar1ne or Ghar1ne, as neither have the potential to affect estrogen. Have you asked anyone regarding Letrone and Viron? One of the company reps?
Viron can raise estrogen because of the tongkat ali. Now i don't see a correlation between higher estrogen andI didn't think it Cardar1ne or Ghar1ne.
On Cardar1ne I believe I am seeing increase in endurance. One week in, upped to 2xpre.
I don't want to double post so will see of anyone chimes in here, if not, I will post to BLR.
Any chance of getting bloodwork to see if something hormonal is to blame?I didn't think it Cardar1ne or Ghar1ne.
On Cardar1ne I believe I am seeing increase in endurance. One week in, upped to 2xpre.
I don't want to double post so will see of anyone chimes in here, if not, I will post to BLR.
I have taken Viron before with Erase Pro and not seen issues.Any chance of getting bloodwork to see if something hormonal is to blame?
Presumably (if Letrone is as strong as touted), it wouldn't be an Estro issue...but I haven't seen much bloodwork on Letrone to confirm.
I have seen a couple reports of nip issues using Viron with low or no Letrone. That said, I don't know that I'm convinced otc test boosters would cause nip issues. Though I suppose if one was gyno prone or overly sensitive anything is possible.
We also don't know the 1/2 life of Letrone nor if it is suicidal. Heck, it may only be effective for 2 hours at a time, causing some rebound effects or something between doses.
Not knocking the product (I'm on it now), just pointing out some unknown factors with it.
Wishing u the best man.
2x each.Viron can raise estrogen because of the tongkat ali. Now i don't see a correlation between higher estrogen and
erect nipples (can cause puffy nipples).
But your also taking Letrone, which will seriously lower estrogen, even for someone taking high dose of Test.
I can't say for sure, what is causing your erect nipples. Maybe they're cold
Whats your Viron & Letrone dosing like..?
No need for this.Keep your blood levels stable and keep dosing Id find a way to do body weight exercises , if there's a will there's a way .
I don't think there is any need to imply that, clearly he experienced the rash before being concerned about it. I don't think it's fair to the guy to call him paranoid just because he values his health and is seeking help and advice.No to be mean here Shin splints but I think you're just a bit paranoid. You're making these "problems" problems by stressing out over them. Have you ever heard of Somatisation disorders? Check out the link below
Well I see a lot of running these types of products for the first time and and also for the 17th time and they get really paranoid about every little thing. It's common. It's not meant as a "burn" or to be mean. It's meant to help.I don't think there is any need to imply that, clearly he experienced the rash before being concerned about it. I don't think it's fair to the guy to call him paranoid just because he values his health and is seeking help and advice.
No worries and no burn taken.Well I see a lot of running these types of products for the first time and and also for the 17th time and they get really paranoid about every little thing. It's common. It's not meant as a "burn" or to be mean. It's meant to help.
Honestly we had the supressive debate and conclusion was supressed is supressed once your shut down that's it especially if you do a long enough run if a so called mild compound will shut you down the sameHas anyone heard any feedback yet on how suppressive radar1ne might be compared to osta or lgd?
Fair enough, I guess a better question is what the recovery is like. Suppressed maybe be suppressed no matter what, but I think it's pretty clear that ostarine, for example, has a quicker easier recovery than lgd. No?Honestly we had the supressive debate and conclusion was supressed is supressed once your shut down that's it especially if you do a long enough run if a so called mild compound will shut you down the same
I agree, shutdown is shutdown. The length of time you stay shutdown seems to be what dictates recovery. Obviously there are other variables at work as well, but this one seems to be noteworthy.Honestly we had the supressive debate and conclusion was supressed is supressed once your shut down that's it especially if you do a long enough run if a so called mild compound will shut you down the same
I never subscribed to the pseudo-scientific theory of less suppressive, quicker recovery. When you introduce something that stops your endogenous Testosterone production, it stops. Recovery seems to be individual, like with all things. Some may recover easily from LGD, while others don't recovery easily from Ostarine. Diet, training, genetics, supplements, PCT ancillaries, time spent shutdown, half life of compounds (more of an AAS concern regarding restarting HPTA).Fair enough, I guess a better question is what the recovery is like. Suppressed maybe be suppressed no matter what, but I think it's pretty clear that ostarine, for example, has a quicker easier recovery than lgd. No?
Recovery should be quick like every other sarm due to the limited amount of suppression on LH and fsh. Shut down is shut down but testosterone levels aren't the only thing we need to take into account hereFair enough, I guess a better question is what the recovery is like. Suppressed maybe be suppressed no matter what, but I think it's pretty clear that ostarine, for example, has a quicker easier recovery than lgd. No?
This is true. Regardless, I always run a SERM in PCT, and I always have an AI on hand. No matter what you've been told, or heard, regarding the suppressive qualities of a compound, unless you have blood tests for yourself pre and post cycle, you don't know. Be cautious, you may react better or worse to a compound than what you've read in the anecdotal reports of others.Recovery should be quick like every other sarm due to the limited amount of suppression on LH and fsh. Shut down is shut down but testosterone levels aren't the only thing we need to take into account here
Agreed. I always reccomend clomid for even the most mild cycle, you never know how your body will reactThis is true. Regardless, I always run a SERM in PCT, and I always have an AI on hand. No matter what you've been told, or heard, regarding the suppressive qualities of a compound, unless you have blood tests for yourself pre and post cycle, you don't know. Be cautious, you may react better or worse to a compound than what you've read in the anecdotal reports of others.
Exactly. It's always better to take every precaution!Agreed. I always reccomend clomid for even the most mild cycle, you never know how your body will react
I have not ran Osta yet so I'll let some of the other gents chime in on that aspect.Guys, speaking of PCT...Ill finish my 12 week run of Ostar1ne next week, and Im currently cutting, lets say 4-500 cals under maintenance , Im gonna take clomid, ABE, XGELS, creatine, organ shield and DAA for PCT, so my big Q is...should I jump directly to maintenance cals, or above?
With prohormones I have read we should increase cals vs cycle cals in order to keep most of gains and since SARM gains are more easy to keep, does trying to drop 1-1.5 more pounds after Osta cycle, a really bad idea?
thanks!
thanks for your answer, an OTC AI will do the trick, like Eliminate?I have not ran Osta yet so I'll let some of the other gents chime in on that aspect.
But I will say that I REALLY like to take an AI while on clomid (even if OTC) starting two weeks in and ending a couple weeks post clomid. I've seen a TON of bloodwork and while extremely effective at raising T, it also raises E a LOT.
Yeah an OTC AI should be just fine. We want a good test-to-E ratio during PCT not to crush it.thanks for your answer, an OTC AI will do the trick, like Eliminate?
thanks bro! So 2 caps dode apart for 4 weeks is enough?Yeah an OTC AI should be just fine. We want a good test-to-E ratio during PCT not to crush it.
El1minate would work great and has a good amount of servings per bottle.
One analysis of Androst 3,5-dein-7,17dione (Arimistane) showed that peak plasma levels following oral administration were reached in 2.2 hours, with a half life of 2.17 hours. Further investigation yielded that twice daily administration led to somewhat stable blood plasma levels.
So I always like splitting my Arimistane (which is what El1minate has in it) dose up into 2 per day.
I don't remember what your Clomid set up is like, but I'd start it about 2 weeks into your clomid dosing and continue for about two weeks past cessation of clomid.thanks bro! So 2 caps dode apart for 4 weeks is enough?
I take Toremifene for my SERM of choice, and I too experience high E while on it. It raises T high enough that the aromatizing is pretty significant. I had used Exemestane in the past with it, but it turned out to be completely bunk. When my PCT ended, I puffed up quite a bit, so there was definite Estrogen Rebound going on. If my Exemestane had been legit, I would have been fine, I believe.I have not ran Osta yet so I'll let some of the other gents chime in on that aspect.
But I will say that I REALLY like to take an AI while on clomid (even if OTC) starting two weeks in and ending a couple weeks post clomid. I've seen a TON of bloodwork and while extremely effective at raising T, it also raises E a LOT.
This is my plan for my upcoming PCT.thanks for your answer, an OTC AI will do the trick, like Eliminate?
Exactly, all solid points! I plan to spread my dosages throughout the day due to the half-life.Yeah an OTC AI should be just fine. We want a good test-to-E ratio during PCT not to crush it.
El1minate would work great and has a good amount of servings per bottle.
One analysis of Androst 3,5-dein-7,17dione (Arimistane) showed that peak plasma levels following oral administration were reached in 2.2 hours, with a half life of 2.17 hours. Further investigation yielded that twice daily administration led to somewhat stable blood plasma levels.
So I always like splitting my Arimistane (which is what El1minate has in it) dose up into 2 per day.
This is the best way to run an AI with a SERM to avoid any estrogen rebound. I'm following the same protocol.I don't remember what your Clomid set up is like, but I'd start it about 2 weeks into your clomid dosing and continue for about two weeks past cessation of clomid.
Start with 2 caps dosed apart (am + pm or something like that). If you happen to be sensitive to estro it is possible you'll need to go to 3 caps but prob not past that. Just be aware of symptoms of high E and dose accordingly.
The bottle is a WHOPPING 120 caps at about $25 so you can't beat the amount of servings for the price. You'll likely have leftover for another run.
If it doesn't you have exemestane on hand so no worries.And I gotta give a shout out to yates84 for hooking me up with a solid AI plan for my PCT, I was on the fence about using an OTC AI, but after talking to him, I'm confident it will do the job. Thanks, bro!
Anytime! We're always glad to help! I think Elim1nate will get the job done, and at a more reasonable cost.thank you guys Hastur kboxer7 , I was also considering letrone, but its way more expensive and I might crash estro
Exactly! Just in case! And at least unlike Exemestane, Arimistane won't crush my estrogen quite as much, and we all know we need a healthy ratio for proper HPTA function.If it doesn't you have exemestane on hand so no worries.
No problem man. We are here to help.thank you guys Hastur kboxer7 , I was also considering letrone, but its way more expensive and I might crash estro
Lol I just posted in the letrone thread my dilemma... I can tell my e2 is up there at the moment after two weeks clomid. I AM on 1 cap el1minate and I don't have enough at this point to increase to two or three. The bottle will be gone in one week and that's when I planned on starting letrone but these e2 sides (itchy hot skin and water retention in belly and chest) are killing me. I don't want to skew my initial labs though, so for the sake of science I am going to endure this and go find a bra.No problem man. We are here to help.
I'm on Letrone now. Not sure I buy into how powerful it is supposed to be from an AI standpoint. Don't get me wrong, I do like it, but there is a lot of info we don't yet know about it like half life and if it is suicidal or not.
I can take 3 caps, not even on PCT or anything that would aromatize, and I don't feel my estro is crushed. I know that's not bloodwork, but I am pretty in tune to how I feel when I crush estro (been there before).
I still like the product and feel as if it has helped, so I don't want to sound like I"m bashing it. Our man Chedda is going to be running bloodwork on it while on clomid so stay tuned to his logs if you are interested in how that fairs for him.
At least with Arimistane we know the half life, and potency has been pretty well established over time from users. I feel like as it stands, El1minate is more predictable (not to mention affordable) and is what I'll be using as well.
I like maintenance bur make sure it's your maintenance for new weight not pre cycleohh BTW, you guys helped me alot with the PCT theme, but what about the calorie intake? Should I go maintenance, slighlty under or above? lol thanks!
why not just switch to the letrone immediately? how would that skew results?Lol I just posted in the letrone thread my dilemma... I can tell my e2 is up there at the moment after two weeks clomid. I AM on 1 cap el1minate and I don't have enough at this point to increase to two or three. The bottle will be gone in one week and that's when I planned on starting letrone but these e2 sides (itchy hot skin and water retention in belly and chest) are killing me. I don't want to skew my initial labs though, so for the sake of science I am going to endure this and go find a bra.
Because I won't know my starting estrogen levels after being on clomid. Before starting clomid I was at 33... I've gotta be at least 1:1 ratio at this point given the sides and knowing my total Test is 569.. Probably high 40s-low 50s at the moment for e2why not just switch to the letrone immediately? how would that skew results?
Gotcha. Misunderstood. Thought you already had your pre-letrone numbers.Because I won't know my starting estrogen levels after being on clomid. Before starting clomid I was at 33... I've gotta be at least 1:1 ratio at this point given the sides and knowing my total Test is 569.. Probably high 40s-low 50s at the moment for e2
If I take letrone now, it SHOULD start lowering e2 (if it works) before I know where it is