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SARM's, MK, & GW : A User's Guide

mnemotron said:
pyrobatt how do you think about omega labs endurabolin?
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I can't comment on a company I've never used.

Chaos and pain gw15 16 is what I'll be using.
 
mnemotron said:
Anyone know something about omega labs company?
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Contact them and ask to see their 3rd party lab tests, then you will know for sure what they are selling
 
Bro im just waiting for Olympus UK debut here in EU since retailers are going to do sales on their products and as yates said
 
yates84 said:
Contact them and ask to see their 3rd party lab tests, then you will know for sure what they are selling
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An u.s supps seller write this to me: omega labs does not have a company website,they are legit. It's a retail exclusive company that doesn't do online sales at all. They are actually made by the same factory as Blackstone Labs and Prime Nutrition
 
See I hate stuff like that there's plenty of support shops in my town who have only retail brands you can find no I for about I'd skip that cause it's just sketchy
 
Invalid Link Removed my log of gw is up!
 
Not sure if this question was answered or not but does ostarine at minimum dose 5ml can still cause shut down? N would it be still beneficial for fat loss?
 
hamdysayed said:
Not sure if this question was answered or not but does ostarine at minimum dose 5ml can still cause shut down? N would it be still beneficial for fat loss?
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Ostarine has been shown to be suppressive at 3mg
 
bigjoe90 said:
Lucianooo and mnemotron it seems that I'm not the only italian fan of SARMs :D
I wish PMS will have the new OL UK line in stock by the end of this week cause I have big plans involving some OL UK and CnP stuff... yates84 Olympus Labs Olympus UK please give us europeans a sign!!!!
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We should be in the uk this week and they will be on sale! Keep an eye on your favorite UK supplement site!
 
hamdysayed said:
Yeah bro, it's I dont want to mess with that unless it's going to be aas only way ,that's only it will be kinda worth it to me.
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fair enough, ive seen this reasoning around here a bit and cant say i agree with it but obviously this is an important personal choice
 
I havent got any data or numbers to back my intuition up but, I would think the distinction is at least based on usefullness in discussion; ie, one refers to something mild whereas the other is much more extreme.

I mean, would we say that the test subjects who dosed 3mg ostar /d were suppressed, or shut down? We have these terms to help discussion and distinguish between certain hormonal states, no?
 
Maybe to give another example...some guys will be reluctant to run a compound that 'shuts them down', but happy to run one that 'suppresses them'. It seems clear to me that, based on the discussions Ive read at the various forums, people are making a distinction simply because there is a distinction to be made. Which only makes sense, given the variability in compound potencies and hormonal responses.
 
Suppressed simply means that your endogenous testosterone production has declined from its normal state. Shut down means endogenous testosterone production has stopped.
 
yates84 said:
Suppressed simply means that your endogenous testosterone production has declined from its normal state. Shut down means endogenous testosterone production has stopped.
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Yeah but if you run anabolics long enough it's just a matter or time from one to the other
 
yates84 said:
Suppressed simply means that your endogenous testosterone production has declined from its normal state. Shut down means endogenous testosterone production has stopped.
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I don't know I think it's a fine line. Either that or some kind of misconception. Once you start adding exogenous hormones your body is going to shut down endogenous production......Now as to whether or not blood test results show 0 testosterone or not who knows....I haven't heard of that specifically happening but I've heard of blood tests showing extremely low testosterone and people calling that "shut down" because that's not what their body in particular normally produces. Maybe that amount that is shows on blood work is somehow residual?. I think maybe people are splitting heirs here.
 
T-Bone said:
I don't know I think it's a fine line. Either that or some kind of misconception. Once you start adding exogenous hormones your body is going to shut down endogenous production......Now as to whether or not blood test results show 0 testosterone or not who knows....I haven't heard of that specifically happening but I've heard of blood tests showing extremely low testosterone and people calling that "shut down" because that's not what their body in particular normally produces. Maybe that amount that is shows on blood work is somehow residual?. I think maybe people are splitting heirs here.
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Extremely low, close to zero would have been a better way I could have said that.
 
T-Bone said:
I don't know I think it's a fine line. Either that or some kind of misconception. Once you start adding exogenous hormones your body is going to shut down endogenous production......Now as to whether or not blood test results show 0 testosterone or not who knows....I haven't heard of that specifically happening but I've heard of blood tests showing extremely low testosterone and people calling that "shut down" because that's not what their body in particular normally produces. Maybe that amount that is shows on blood work is somehow residual?. I think maybe people are splitting heirs here.
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Many people are misinformed more like it. One you supressed natural testosterone production long enough you get "shutdown" hard shutdown easy recovery it's all variable from one cycle to the next even with same compounds I've taken exact same compounds exact same dosages exact length of time and had levels come back pretty different I've felt shutdown had testicular shrinkage and tested better than times where I've felt great with no shrinkage no lethargy etc. You can't do one or two or 5 cycles and get a good idea what shutdown feels like it takes years and lots of bloodtests to verify what you think your feeling
 
mixedup said:
Umm is 2 close enough to zero.... what the fawk was I running to come up with 2 lmao glad I saved that one
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That's pretty much shut down!
 
yates84 said:
That's pretty much shut down!
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So it's much easier just to say shut down than suppressed....I think if your gonna be suppressed you might as well say shut down because it's likely the person asking about the anabolics isn't going to understand this minute difference you are talking about. I see it more as black and white and no grey. If a guy is gonna run Ostarine at 20 mg for 2 weeks, he might just be "suppressed". However it's more likely he's gonna want to run it for at least 8 weeks for 20mg or more and that will definitely cause what you define as "Shut down". Separating the two terms to be specific is just gonna cause problems. See what I'm trying to say?
 
T-Bone said:
So it's much easier just to say shut down than suppressed....I think if your gonna be suppressed you might as well say shut down because it's likely the person asking about the anabolics isn't going to understand this minute difference you are talking about. I see it more as black and white and no grey. If a guy is gonna run Ostarine at 20 mg for 2 weeks, he might just be "suppressed". However it's more likely he's gonna want to run it for at least 8 weeks for 20mg or more and that will definitely cause what you define as "Shut down". Separating the two terms to be specific is just gonna cause problems. See what I'm trying to say?
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For the sake of the end user reading this thread we should not try and define the difference is what you're saying, right?
 
T-Bone said:
Yes that and throughout the entire board. I think it's safer just to refer to it as "shutdown".
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Sounds good to me
 
Ahhhh but don't forget the difference between sarms and AAS effect on LH and FSH so even shutdown from sarms recovery is much quicker
 
Nutriverse shipment finally arriving tomorrow! Going to start ghar1ne and cardar1ne right away. Can I get a spot check on my plan here?

MK677 - 3 months, 10/20/30 (based on yates' guide)
GW1516 - 8 weeks, 7/7/14/14/14/14/14/14
Tribulus - 2x/day for cox2 inhibition with the cardar1ne

Other stuff I'm already on:

Soy lecithin granules (phophatidic acid) - 5tbsp split before/after gym

PES High Volume - preworkout

Guayusa tea - preworkout, for caffeine (love this stuff. mixing it with a non-stim preworkout feels better to me than any stimmed pre-wo i've ever tried)

Athletix Ergonine - daily

Multivitamin (Alive! gummies, because I try to get my micronutrients from food and just use this as insurance, and sorry not sorry I love gummies)

DoMatcha Green Tea - 1 teaspoon per cup, 1-3 cups/day

Fish oil

Questions:

- I'm basing my mk677 dosage off of the guide in this thread, but I'm wondering if 10mg is too low for the first month? I see lots of logs around various boards that start at 20mg. Does anyone have real world experience with dosing 10mg and how that went?

- I've read recommendations to use huperzine a along with mk677 for its somatostatin inhibiting properties, for the purpose of mitigating desensitization to the mk677. Is this worthwhile or necessary? On the other hand, wouldn't inhibiting somatostatin make GH bleed more probable, as opposed to the desired pulses throughout the day?

-Any merit to the idea of running mk677 5 on 2 off per week or something similar?

-Does it matter what time of day I take the cardar1ne?

-Is there any logic to tapering down at the end of the run for either of these?

I think that's it for now, though I'm sure I'm forgetting something. Thanks!
 
warpyfunch said:
Nutriverse shipment finally arriving tomorrow! Going to start ghar1ne and cardar1ne right away. Can I get a spot check on my plan here?

MK677 - 3 months, 10/20/30 (based on yates' guide)
GW1516 - 8 weeks, 7/7/14/14/14/14/14/14
Tribulus - 2x/day for cox2 inhibition with the cardar1ne

Other stuff I'm already on:

Soy lecithin granules (phophaditic acid) - 5tbsp split before/after gym

PES High Volume - preworkout

Guayusa tea - preworkout, for caffeine (love this stuff. mixing it with a non-stim preworkout feels better to me than any stimmed pre-wo i've ever tried)

Athletix Ergonine - daily

Multivitamin (Alive! gummies, because I try to get my micronutrients from food and just use this as insurance, and sorry not sorry I love gummies)

DoMatcha Green Tea - 1 teaspoon per cup, 1-3 cups/day

Fish oil

Questions:

- I'm basing my mk677 dosage off of the guide in this thread, but I'm wondering if 10mg is too low for the first month? I see lots of logs around various boards that start at 20mg. Does anyone have real world experience with dosing 10mg and how that went?

- I've read recommendations to use huperzine a along with mk677 for its somatostatin inhibiting properties, for the purpose of mitigating desensitization to the mk677. Is this worthwhile or necessary? On the other hand, wouldn't inhibiting somatostatin make GH bleed more probable, as opposed to the desired pulses throughout the day?

-Any merit to the idea of running mk677 5 on 2 off per week or something similar?

-Does it matter what time of day I take the cardar1ne?

-Is there any logic to tapering down at the end of the run for either of these?

I think that's it for now, though I'm sure I'm forgetting something. Thanks!
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Mk677 should be taken every day. If your wondering about the 5 days on 2 off of huperzine a then yes . There's plenty of merit. Mainly due to huperzine a causing some issues (neurotransmitter wise) via continuous use.

Aka depression,anger,mental fog ect.

Gw is once a day dosing and no need to tapper gw or mk.
 
foofighter said:
Thought it was ok to ask if products were gtg people post pictures to ask if something looks legit whats difference
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We cannot confirm nor deny any source material or chemicals. Thus can be found reading the forum rules.
 
yates84 said:
Ok....due to an abundant amount of misinformation out there, I decided to put together a SARM, PPAR modulator, and GH secretagogue HOW TO! Here is all the info I find to be beneficial and have decided to share with everyone.....

SARMS, or selective androgen receptor modulators, provide the benefits of traditional AAS (more muscle, less fat, and better bone density) while producing significantly less unwanted side effects (estrogen related sides and water retention). SARMS are a unique class of molecules that are currently being developed to treat diseases that are currently being treated with AAS. Some SARMS have even gone to trial as TRT. When SARMS bind to the receptor they demonstrate anabolic and hypertrophic activity in both muscle and bone. This makes them ideal candidates for TRT, osteoporosis treatment, as well as muscle wasting treatment. SARMS can have as high as a 10:1 anabolic to androgenic ratio. That 10:1 ratio is what allows them to build muscle with little to no side effects. SARMS, also, typically display a high bioavailability.

Let's discuss the benefits of SARMS over traditional AAS. SARMS are nontoxic to the liver, and have little effect on blood pressure. As a result, this eliminates the for preloading and on cycle support supplements. Subsequently, a SARM cycle will ultimately be less expensive than a traditional AAS/Ph cycle. The chances of estrogen related sides an water retention is significantly lower than a AAS/Ph cycle, as well.

Now....let's get familiar with SARM's, PPAR modulators, and GH secretagogues!!

LGD 4033 - a SARM like Ostarine, but 12 times as powerful at only 1/3 the dose! Consequently, this makes it more suppressive to the HPTA. So, a SERM post cycle therapy is recommended. LGD has proven itself as a good bulking agent, where Ostarine is better used in a cutting cycle. LGD has a half life ranging between 24 and 36 hours. So, once daily dosing is optimal. A study performed at Boston University showed that healthy men who were given 1mg of LGD daily gained, on average, about 3 pounds in 3 weeks. No clinically significant changes in liver function tests, PSA (prostate issue/functions test), hematocrit, or ECG were seen or noted. Due to the possibility of high estrogen sides while using LGD, it is recommended that you have an AI, like Exemestane, on hand.

LGD example cycle:
Beginner
LGD 4/4/4/8/8/8
OL Eliminate 2/2/2/2/2/2
PCT:
Clomid 50/25/25
OL Super PCT as indicated on label
AI of choice on hand

Advanced
LGD 4/4/8/8/8/8/12/12
OL Eliminate 2/2/3/3/3/3/3/3
PCT:
Clomid 50/50/25/25
OL Super PCT as indicated on label
AI of choice on hand
*Armicare Pro can be substituted for Eliminate during cycle for full protection

MK 677 (Ibutamoren) - is a non-peptidic, orally active and selective agonist of the growth hormone secretagogue receptor. MK 677 mimics the action of ghrelin in the stomach. As a result this raises growth hormone and IGF-1 levels, but does not affect cortisol levels. Human studies have shown it to increase both muscle mass and bone mineral density. At 25mg daily, Ibutamoren has been shown, in humans, to increase IGF-1 levels 60%in 6 week. A 72% increase in IGF-1 levels was seen after 12 months. MK 677 is non-hormonal, and therefore requires no PCT after cycle is over. MK 677 can best be utilized in at least a 3 month cycle with dosage increasing each month. The optimal dosing time for MK 677 is at night directly before going to bed. One should start notice a deeper sleep almost immediately. If one should
wake up with numb or tingly hands, do not worry. This is a common side effect of the extra GH in the
system.

MK 677 example cycle:
Month 1 - 10mg once daily
Month 2 - 20mg once daily
Month 3 - 30mg once daily

GW 501516 - is actually not a SARM. In fact it is a PPAR Delta Modulator....this means it is a selective agonist with a high affinity for the PPAR. As a result, this modulation allows the body to utilize more glucose and to allows it to create more muscle tissue. GW also regulates the various proteins that the body uses for energy. What does this mean for the user? It means an increase in energy and endurance. Additionally, it may also mean an increase in muscle mass. It is possible that GW may have a positive affect on blood pressure and lipid profile. Dosing is in the 7mg to 21mg range, with 14mg being the "sweet spot". The average GW cycle is typically 4 to 12 weeks. GW is non-hormonal, and therefore requires no PCT. However, it does stack well with SARMS to further increase fat loss and endurance.

GW 505516 example cycle:
Beginner
GW 7/7/14/14/14/14

Intermediate
GW 7//14/14/14/14/21

Advanced
GW 14/14/14/14/21/21/21/21

RAD 140 - is very new! Therefore, there isn't a lot of real world data on it yet. However, it does look very promising!! RAD 140 has an impressive anabolic to androgenic ratio of 90:1! Resulting in one experiencing all the muscle building effects without all the androgenic side effects. RAD is powerful enough to limit the effect of testosterone on the prostate and other unwanted areas. RAD 140 has even been shown to be more anabolic than testosterone, as well. Dosing appears to be in the 4mg to 12mg range, with optimal cycle length being 4 to 6 weeks. Due to its shorter half life (16 hours) RAD needs to be dosed at least twice daily.

RAD 140 example cycle:
RAD 140 4/4/8/8/12/12
PCT:
OL Super PCT as indicated on label
Clomid (if needed) 50/25/25
*Also have AI of choice on hand
*Armicare Pro can be used during cycle for full protection

More to come soon.....
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Before we get into the technical stuff, how can an anabolic build muscle and burn fat? Fat loss is s catabolic process, and fat gain is an anabolic process
 
jbryand101b said:
Before we get into the technical stuff, how can an anabolic build muscle and burn fat? Fat loss is s catabolic process, and fat gain is an anabolic process
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What compound are you referring to? So you're saying that fat loss and muscle gain can't happen at the same time? I seem to do this every cycle. Please explain why recomping isn't possible
 
yates84 said:
What compound are you referring to? So you're saying that fat loss and muscle gain can't happen at the same time? I seem to do this every cycle. Please explain why recomping isn't possible
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When I diet down for contests, it's the most noticeable gains that I have encounter. I do believe in burning fat and going muscle at the same time.
 
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