Best bang for the buck Epicatechin product

rosemont83 said:
^^ Right.
If your strength goes up, endurance goes up, and you don't increase volume or weight on your lifts.. why? Isn't the point to increase volume and/or weight?
"I'm just gonna take this supplement right here who's benefits are endurance and strength gain, and just like, keep everything the same and not take the benefit of increased endurance" Makes sense......... yea......... If you want to try and make the supp look like it does less maybe.... Oh wait was that the point? My baaaaaaaad :)

I don't think a single person here works out to stay the same. Unless I'm mistaken and that's the goal..
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im with ya. This is being way over complicated. I do agree, going from one extreme to the other. ie, hard bulking to cutting (loss of endurance) or hard cutting to bulking (gaining endurance) would skew results. BUT that wasnt the context of original comment, saying their needs to be a baseline when under normal circumstances who isnt trying to increase workout? this is just over complicating something for the sake of it.
kisaj most people wouldnt notice the effects of increased endurance/strength assuming theyre on a regular diet? or notice feeling worn out from said increased workout.. thats pretty basic.

i feel like these straw man arguments are only relevant if the variables are to the extreme. ie changing dieting protocols, changing from power lifting to bodybuilding typical training, or if someone has no concept of macros in general. I dont think this would apply to the original concept of what i responded to.
 
EMPIREMIND said:
I would see if nutra still has the follidrex, which was two bottles for 20 bucks with a shirt lol. Then you could use both bottles in a month, see if you respond to it, and if so jump into a more expensive like follidrone, or ep1c. Ep1c seems to be more for your money and is open label, follidrone is renown and from what i know the innovator of that compound being brought to light in the supplement game.
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I still recommend this to the OP. also consider blackstone labs epicat which has some added absorbtion ingredients as well. Think theres a sale on it in the company promotions forum.
 
kisaj said:
Of course you adjust, but you need to start from the same spot to assess improvement. Many, many people decide to change a routine or add several supplements, or add 500 calories, etc and then think they actually can determine what is helping or hindering improvements. You simply cannot. So, if you are going to add in something and want to see how it affects you, you need to keep everything else the same as before the addition of anything. Then, you can adjust as needed and can likely determine that there is benefit from the addition of the supplement, food, sleep, etc.
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Yes, starting from the same spot of course..
 
squirtguns89 said:
im with ya. This is being way over complicated. I do agree, going from one extreme to the other. ie, hard bulking to cutting (loss of endurance) or hard cutting to bulking (gaining endurance) would skew results. BUT that wasnt the context of original comment, saying their needs to be a baseline when under normal circumstances who isnt trying to increase workout? this is just over complicating something for the sake of it.
kisaj most people wouldnt notice the effects of increased endurance/strength assuming theyre on a regular diet? or notice feeling worn out from said increased workout.. thats pretty basic.

i feel like these straw man arguments are only relevant if the variables are to the extreme. ie changing dieting protocols, changing from power lifting to bodybuilding typical training, or if someone has no concept of macros in general. I dont think this would apply to the original concept of what i responded to.
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Do you really think most people understand volume, density, frequency or how they respond to manipulations of it?

How is it that so many people use the gym and NEVER grow beyond 60kgs if they know it so well? Because they do not understand and beyond the inital noob gains, they have zero understanding how to improve. Thats why so many look to drugs/ supplements because they assume thats what creates results.

Tbone and kisaj are correct; adding in supplements when you change a routine/ diet/ job whatever only add to the noise. Increased endurance may also be a feeling of placebo because they have been self limiting their progress by not pushing for additional reps when they could have- enter supplements and they all of a sudden push harder.

I saw cell tech reviews saying increased maxes of 10kg upward which tells me the person was not pushing hard enough earlier
 
Jiigzz said:
Do you really think most people understand volume, density, frequency or how they respond to manipulations of it?

How is it that so many people use the gym and NEVER grow beyond 60kgs if they know it so well? Because they do not understand and beyond the inital noob gains, they have zero understanding how to improve. Thats why so many look to drugs/ supplements because they assume thats what creates results.

Tbone and kisaj are correct; adding in supplements when you change a routine/ diet/ job whatever only add to the noise. Increased endurance may also be a feeling of placebo because they have been self limiting their progress by not pushing for additional reps when they could have- enter supplements and they all of a sudden push harder.

I saw cell tech reviews saying increased maxes of 10kg upward which tells me the person was not pushing hard enough earlier
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ill be quite frank here, i read the thread but missed the original context about adding calories and other supplements concurrently(which i indirectly agreed with Tbone). i just saw AUS mention adding volume to his workout. chalk this up as a L for SG. and yes, the average joe point was probably a bit argumentative in nature, people arnt that intelligent in that manner generally (irony of me saying that right).

to be fair i blame it on the SNS DAA. aggression and lack of reading ability from peak t levels is getting to me.
 
squirtguns89 said:
ill be quite frank here, i read the thread but missed the original context about adding calories and other supplements concurrently(which i indirectly agreed with Tbone). i just saw AUS mention adding volume to his workout. chalk this up as a L for SG. and yes, the average joe point was probably a bit argumentative in nature, people arnt that intelligent in that manner generally (irony of me saying that right).

to be fair i blame it on the SNS DAA. aggression and lack of reading ability from peak t levels is getting to me.
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Only my POV as well, but its just a trend I see :D

Its easy to forget that there are people who have been consistant with using the gym but yet never show progress because we are around people who understand the processes better. But I see it daily :D

I must also apologise if my posts come off as rude. Its never intended. Its just my writing style lol
 
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louisaboy said:
Best bang is: Black Lion Research Follidrone.
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I was skeptical when Follidrone came out, some of the claims, etc. I even told that to the Black Lion dude (Brundel), I must say, I ran it and was very impressed. My max lifts went up at age 48, and I went for blood work thinking it was spiked, came back clean and healthy. (Low LDL, high HDL, perfect liver enzymes,etc)...
Ive tried everything over my 35 years of lifting, this stuff is the real deal. The only natty supp that ever worked for me...
 
Power-Lift said:
I was skeptical when Follidrone came out, some of the claims, etc. I even told that to the Black Lion dude (Brundel), I must say, I ran it and was very impressed. My max lifts went up at age 48, and I went for blood work thinking it was spiked, came back clean and healthy. (Low LDL, high HDL, perfect liver enzymes,etc)...
Ive tried everything over my 35 years of lifting, this stuff is the real deal. The only natty supp that ever worked for me...
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Thanks bro I really appreciate this. This is why I stood my ground.
I know how amazing this stuff is.
Its not every day we see something that is anabolic and also has positive health benefits. Most things that grow muscle are also harmful to some degree. Im happy that we have a viable natural alternative with no negative sides.
 
I have bought countless bottles of Magnitropin before I came on with the company. It has become a staple in my supps
 
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