Best bang for the buck Epicatechin product

jgntyce said:
I should clarify that Brundel provided research showing the purity of his product. I have been on it for the past month with great results. thanks for your question.
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Ok so nothing to do with effect results at all lol
 
Correct, and researchers (in this case from actual drug companies) don't use supplements in their studies. The latest one showing the blood plasma concentrations over time, used -(-)Epi from Sigma-Aldrich, that they purified even more.

IMO "proof" for -(-)Epi involves testing myo/folli levels, other than that... "the placebo is strong in that one". I guess *maybe* if all you are taking is -(-)Epi... but is anyone here *only* taking -(-)Epi? NO OTHER SUPPS AT ALL? JMO, don't kill me :)

Here's the "product" used:

2.2 Study compound

(−)-EPI extracted was obtained from Sigma-Aldrich Inc. To prepare for administration, (−)-EPI was re-purified in a Good Manufacturing Practices (GMP) facility. First, (−)-EPI was dissolved in ethanol then treated with charcoal and filtered to remove insoluble materials. The solvent was exchanged to purified water and dried by lyophilization. The re-purified compound was tested in a GMP certified analytical lab using HPLC methodology. Specifications required >90% purity, <5% of the enantiomer and 5% catechin.
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Invalid Link Removed
 
Driven2lift said:
Ok so nothing to do with effect results at all lol
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previous posts mention they prefer follidrone over the other epi products. and I'm not bashing other epi products. I just trust the epi that Brundel sells.
 
jgntyce said:
previous posts mention they prefer follidrone over the epi products. and I'm not bashing other epi products. I just trust the epi that Brundel sells.
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Oh thats fine you like it

But there are just as many OL fans, Evomuse fans, and Myokem fans that prefer theirs
 
EP1C.

I wanna see the TD EP1C I tested about 2 montha released. Quality product
 
Piston Honda said:
SNS reps love epicatechin. They're so interested in tearing down other companies' products that have been proven to be effective that they barely spend time promoting their own.
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One rep is all of us? Keep your generalizations to yourself.

At least we dont go tearing down the company we rep for. I think you called it, integrity.

Fwiw, I have nothing against epi based products and have used several myself including follidrone
 
Could look into Epic Gainz, they use a liquid absorption complex much like Primordial used to do with the LV technology
 
i have used, Follidrone, myosyenrgy, ep1c, and magnitropin. i enjoyed all of them, but cost wise i like getting more epi-(-), so i will have to say either folli or ep1c. i think follidrone is dosed very well despite it being a prop blend i had amazing results of it. the same endurance and strength takeover effects i also had with ep1c and myo (much less often though on myo.) i think you need a higher dose of it for it to be effective, and extract quality could be an important factor. ep1c was a close second to follidrone for me, but happy with both. Magnitropin was more of an all round endruance enhancer not really enough epi-(-) in it for the same strength and endruance / repeat effort and acute increased volume like folli or ep1c.
 
Follidrone is legit! I feel the differnce between one (-)-epi product to another. My next purchase will be follidrone from now on.

With that said, if you have the luxury I say try both. Dnt listen or have your opinion swayed by posts in this forum.
 
goodvibes said:
Follidrone is legit! I feel the differnce between one (-)-epi product to another. My next purchase will be follidrone from now on.

With that said, if you have the luxury I say try both. Dnt listen or have your opinion swayed by posts in this forum.
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But... You just gave an opinion :) haha

When you day you feel a difference from one to the other, do you mean they may be dosed differently bottle to bottle?
 
Epi question since this thread is so active.

Is epi effective in pct to help keep muscle mass from cycle or does it need a stable hormonal balance and normal range test. to really work?

Just curious if it's worth adding to pct or best to run after I'm balanced out.
 
organometal said:
Epi question since this thread is so active.

Is epi effective in pct to help keep muscle mass from cycle or does it need a stable hormonal balance and normal range test. to really work?

Just curious if it's worth adding to pct or best to run after I'm balanced out.
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it will be good to aid with increasing the amount of volume you can do each workout, in doing so that in itself will help keep your gainz. i would eat at a small surplus when your on it, and maybe run it with Anabeta elite or forskolin 95. and be sure to track training volume, and progressively overload each week.
 
Auslifter said:
it will be good to aid with increasing the amount of volume you can do each workout, in doing so that in itself will help keep your gainz. i would eat at a small surplus when your on it, and maybe run it with Anabeta elite or forskolin 95. and be sure to track training volume, and progressively overload each week.
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Yeah completely change your diet and training because that'll tell you if a new supplement you haven't used before is working or not.
 
T-Bone said:
Yeah completely change your diet and training because that'll tell you if a new supplement you haven't used before is working or not.
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increasing volume isn't really a huge change, i only suggested that since that's what epi-(-) helps out with so if hes tracking volume each that should help him decide if it is working or not, and if hes consistent with adherence to diet and training then it will be easier to judge. only reason i said to eat in a small surplus is to help balance his hormones while in pct, and if hes running an epi-(-) product that he can gain something from it.
 
Auslifter;4869016[B said:
]increasing volume isn't really a huge change[/B], i only suggested that since that's what epi-(-) helps out with so if hes tracking volume each that should help him decide if it is working or not, and if hes consistent with adherence to diet and training then it will be easier to judge. only reason i said to eat in a small surplus is to help balance his hormones while in pct, and if hes running an epi-(-) product that he can gain something from it.
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Changing from what the person was doing into a higher volume program off the bat is a BIG change. It would be more appropriate for him to continue with how he was lifting during the cycle and increase volume and/or strength in line with how he is feeling/lifts during workouts.
 
If we marketed a supplement with a phase one and two, 8 week stacks that required specific corresponding programs for each (a studied high volume and a studied power program)

It would be the most effective supplement of all time.

And it would not matter what was in it
 
Feisty group. I wasn't really shooting for PCT advice here and certainly don't want to steal the thread. The reps are pushing epi hard nowadays so it seemed like a good time to discuss whether there was any particular value in its usage during PCT.
 
Don't all shoot me at once lmao. I didn't mean go balls to the walls with volume right off the bat but yea increase volume gradually, or try to, and self regulating helps allot to I mean if you have more in you and are not hitting failure try to get that extra set or few reps short of failure. That's what I m doing on ep1c right now and it's working well. I certainly don't mean go off and try do some IFBB type routine with ridiculous volume beyond what a natty can do either lol.
 
There's still more research needed. We have Follistatin increases, we have half life (1.5 hrs), and we have blood plasma levels over time (200mg=~3 hrs),,, so what does this do in regards to LBM? Those time frames are pretty short. Price needs to come waaaaay down in order to dose current products 6x/Day :)
 
chainsaw said:
just shopping around, I want to try this product out for 8 weeks, seems to be a lot on the market, which one is best quality and offers most cost efficient?
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I'd recommend trying follidrone by BLR if you want to see how epicatechin works for you. Its a common name here on the boards and a lot of people have tried it and liked it. To see good results i would run two full bottles of it back to back. But check out the link below at Strong Supplement Shop.

http://www.strongsupplementshop.com/follidrone-by-black-lion-research
 
Auslifter said:
Don't all shoot me at once lmao. I didn't mean go balls to the walls with volume right off the bat but yea increase volume gradually, or try to, and self regulating helps allot to I mean if you have more in you and are not hitting failure try to get that extra set or few reps short of failure. That's what I m doing on ep1c right now and it's working well. I certainly don't mean go off and try do some IFBB type routine with ridiculous volume beyond what a natty can do either lol.
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Well the thing is, I like to have my supplements work for me, whereas it sounds like you are working for your supplements. I don't let my supplements determine the way I train and eat. I train and eat the way I want and the supplements are just along for the ride. I'm not gonna make accommodations for them.
 
T-Bone said:
Well the thing is, I like to have my supplements work for me, whereas it sounds like you are working for your supplements. I don't let my supplements determine the way I train and eat. I train and eat the way I want and the supplements are just along for the ride. I'm not gonna make accommodations for them.
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Agreed. It's not really a "supplement" if you're changing everything for it.
 
T-Bone said:
Well the thing is, I like to have my supplements work for me, whereas it sounds like you are working for your supplements. I don't let my supplements determine the way I train and eat. I train and eat the way I want and the supplements are just along for the ride. I'm not gonna make accommodations for them.
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Well said and too often not applied.
 
A lot of supplements are used along with certain changes.

Ie. You take a burner when you start eating less to diet,
Of course you will lose weight.

You take a natural anabolic and follow directions to eat more or "feed the gains",
Of course you will gain weight.

A good supplement would effectively just support this change such as a burner helping with low energy and hunger.
Or the natty anabolic better partitioning weight gain to lean mass

It also takes a LOT of self knowledge and experience to be able to tell when a supplement run did work itself
 
Driven2lift said:
A lot of supplements are used along with certain changes.

Ie. You take a burner when you start eating less to diet,
Of course you will lose weight.

You take a natural anabolic and follow directions to eat more or "feed the gains",
Of course you will gain weight.

A good supplement would effectively just support this change such as a burner helping with low energy and hunger.
Or the natty anabolic better partitioning weight gain to lean mass

It also takes a LOT of self knowledge and experience to be able to tell when a supplement run did work itself
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The point is you should already have been working towards your specific goals for some time before the additional variable of the supplement is added to contribute to your specific goals. Otherwise you really can't gauge how or if the supplement is working, sort of like having "baseline" bloodwork, you need a baseline of how your body reacts to the training and diet you are currently using before additional variables are included.
 
T-Bone said:
The point is you should already have been working towards your specific goals for some time before the additional variable of the supplement is added to contribute to your specific goals. Otherwise you really can't gauge how or if the supplement is working, sort of like having "baseline" bloodwork, you need a baseline of how your body reacts to the training and diet you are currently using before additional variables are included.
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Yep thats tied in with my point
In general people give too much credit to supplements.

Or just expect them to work on their own
 
T-Bone said:
The point is you should already have been working towards your specific goals for some time before the additional variable of the supplement is added to contribute to your specific goals. Otherwise you really can't gauge how or if the supplement is working, sort of like having "baseline" bloodwork, you need a baseline of how your body reacts to the training and diet you are currently using before additional variables are included.
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Even most average joes know how their own bodies "baseline" responds to extra volume or different training stimuli. If youre not training to add sets to your workout, or higher efficiency of reps at normal sets than idk what youre doing. Endurance, or the ability of increased workload is pretty much what a large portion of ergogenic supplements revolve around its not some novel concept. sounds like youre just splitting hairs for the sake of it really.
 
squirtguns89 said:
Even most average joes know how their own bodies "baseline" responds to extra volume or different training stimuli. If youre not training to add sets to your workout, or higher efficiency of reps at normal sets than idk what youre doing. Endurance, or the ability of increased workload is pretty much what a large portion of ergogenic supplements revolve around its not some novel concept. sounds like youre just splitting hairs for the sake of it really.
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I think hes trying to say that placebo effect and proof become a grey area when you dont maintain consistency throughout.
 
EMPIREMIND said:
I think hes trying to say that placebo effect and proof become a grey area when you dont maintain consistency throughout.
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i realize that. but considering what were are measuring the argument is redundant. who here does not spend tons of time throughout the year trying to add sets/reps to their lifts? you dont exactly need a phd in broscience or be on some special training schedule to notice endurance benefits. if something is helping you add volume, then add volume, its not really grey area.

Something like this which claims to add endurance is not the same as taking alphamine at the beginning of a cut right after youve been bulking (thats where his concept would apply).
 
While it pains me to say it, t-bone is right. It's like troubleshooting 101, you need to rule out all variables and start with a baseline or you will never know what is doing what. And I would disagree that most average Joes know what is going on with their progress or improvements. Logs and experience are essential.
 
squirtguns89 said:
i realize that. but considering what were are measuring the argument is redundant. who here does not spend tons of time throughout the year trying to add sets/reps to their lifts? you dont exactly need a phd in broscience or be on some special training schedule to notice endurance benefits. if something is helping you add volume, then add volume, its not really grey area.

Something like this which claims to add endurance is not the same as taking alphamine at the beginning of a cut right after youve been bulking (thats where his concept would apply).
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^^ Right.
If your strength goes up, endurance goes up, and you don't increase volume or weight on your lifts.. why? Isn't the point to increase volume and/or weight?
"I'm just gonna take this supplement right here who's benefits are endurance and strength gain, and just like, keep everything the same and not take the benefit of increased endurance" Makes sense......... yea......... If you want to try and make the supp look like it does less maybe.... Oh wait was that the point? My baaaaaaaad :)

I don't think a single person here works out to stay the same. Unless I'm mistaken and that's the goal..
 
BigBlackGuy said:
But... You just gave an opinion :) haha

When you day you feel a difference from one to the other, do you mean they may be dosed differently bottle to bottle?
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I had to give an opinion but I still want the other users to try it out. I did folli first and then epic, then epic first and then folli. I'm on my third epic run since I bought a lot during a sale. Don't get me wrong epic still gives me strength gains but the added volume on folli is almost double for me. Now that the prices are almost even then I just have to stick to what gives the better results.
 
rosemont83 said:
^^ Right.
If your strength goes up, endurance goes up, and you don't increase volume or weight on your lifts.. why? Isn't the point to increase volume and/or weight?
"I'm just gonna take this supplement right here who's benefits are endurance and strength gain, and just like, keep everything the same and not take the benefit of increased endurance" Makes sense......... yea......... If you want to try and make the supp look like it does less maybe.... Oh wait was that the point? My baaaaaaaad :)

I don't think a single person here works out to stay the same. Unless I'm mistaken and that's the goal..
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Of course you adjust, but you need to start from the same spot to assess improvement. Many, many people decide to change a routine or add several supplements, or add 500 calories, etc and then think they actually can determine what is helping or hindering improvements. You simply cannot. So, if you are going to add in something and want to see how it affects you, you need to keep everything else the same as before the addition of anything. Then, you can adjust as needed and can likely determine that there is benefit from the addition of the supplement, food, sleep, etc.
 
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