If FOLLIDRONE is bunk & results R placebo Ill take placebo

TheMovement said:
What numbers do you want? Have you read through this thread as he comes close to answering many times and explains his usage of a blend countless times. I'm sure our curious but have you not wasted enough money on products that may work? Time to cough it up for one that's received more than stellar reviews. Seriously only 1 user has reported not feeling anything and ya know what non-responders exist. Make your own informed decision and make a purchase. That's the only way YOU will know for sure. What's best isn't always convenient.
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Please, dont sit there and like people dont practically hype up nearly every single product on the market that is released, and subsequently talk about how great it is after using it. Dont get me wrong, Im hopping on this follidrone hype-train too. But lets not be naive about how the release of practically EVERY product is.

Piston Honda said:
So you expect him to give you the mg amount? Let's say he does; now you want the extract %. If he gives that to you, anyone can undercut him.

This applies to all companies who use a prop blend. I hate it as much as anyone, and hated it in certain formulas when I repped for MAN Sports. But that's the only way to protect your product.

Brundel has assured us that he is using more than anyone else and of a higher % than anyone else. The logs and anecdotal feedback seem to support that. And I'm ok with that.

Not trying to come off like a jerk, but being in the game as long as I've been, I've come to accept that this is just the way things are.
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Hes already touted off on several occasions that his extract is 95%, so thats no secret. I think a prop blend of two ingredients is honestly a huge mistake. It would be way too easy to just dose a product at 300 or 400mg and call it good; just in the middle range so the chance of the effects being different is slim to none.
 
nasrenegade said:
Please, dont sit there and like people dont practically hype up nearly every single product on the market that is released, and subsequently talk about how great it is after using it. Dont get me wrong, Im hopping on this follidrone hype-train too. But lets not be naive about how the release of practically EVERY product is. Hes already touted off on several occasions that his extract is 95%, so thats no secret. I think a prop blend of two ingredients is honestly a huge mistake. It would be way too easy to just dose a product at 300 or 400mg and call it good; just in the middle range so the chance of the effects being different is slim to none.
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Unfortunately nothing could be further from the truth. It would cost 35-40$ a bottle just to manufacture. THis means you would likely pay 100$+ a bottle. Assuming it was the proper ingredient. Second, considering clones are already coming out of the woodwork the Prop blend was a good idea. Especially since thus far nobody has got it right.
 
When after the dust settles we let out the exact blend...people will be surprised.
 
brundel said:
Ours is higher by a good deal.
Ours has been tested by hundreds of users with only positive results reported. Theirs 0
Ours is produced by a company with a reputation for solid products. They have no products I am aware of and 0 reputation.
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If it is Duracap producing it and you know them personally then you would know they have a great reputation with a previous brand they owned. No reason to bash every company out there
 
nasrenegade said:
Please, dont sit there and like people dont practically hype up nearly every single product on the market that is released, and subsequently talk about how great it is after using it. Dont get me wrong, Im hopping on this follidrone hype-train too. But lets not be naive about how the release of practically EVERY product is.

Hey I hear ya on that one as Its done on this Forum ALOT! Being one who remembers the first threads from this company asking for loggers, to seeing the landslide of skeptics, and the much more honest active members of this community use, log, and agree that this product has great potential to become a real staple is something that needs to not only be considered its becomes a point of wondering what else Folli is inferior then could this many people be lying? No way, how many sups have you seen fly off the shelf? Hype or no hype I have seen more than my own fair share of effects from it and am sure theres plenty more left. I would like to try it out on a bulk to gauge its muscle building properties but if this product isnt worth throwing the dice on, I beg anyone to tell me what is.
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prebzmaister said:
Point taken. Not trying do be disrespectful in any way. just trying to find the most convinient way for me to get my hands on on this stuff.

things is just really complicated and expencive for me, since I live in Norway, which has totaly retarded import rules. have to order all my stuff to Finland and get it there. ans shipping to scandinavia is really expencive from most american sites.
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You are from Norway and you compain about the price? Average net monthly income in Norway is around USD 5,000 a month. Going to MacDonalds will cost you already USD 100 right?
 
Stierenek213 said:
You are from Norway and you compain about the price? Average net monthly income in Norway is around USD 5,000 a month. Going to MacDonalds will cost you already USD 100 right?
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Your numbers is a bit of, average income is about 4000,- taxes 27% house rent about 1000,- per month. Then again my income is way lower than average since I'm still a student. The price of a big mac is 10,- USD. Then again, I've only bought a big mac once in my life, and I spit it out, tastes horrible.

Shipping to Norway usually is about 30,- USD. Then again, almost everything is illlegal here, so I can't order it to Norway, thus Finland.
 
prebzmaister said:
Your numbers is a bit of, average income is about 4000,- taxes 27% house rent about 1000,- per month. Then again my income is way lower than average since I'm still a student. The price of a big mac is 10,- USD. Then again, I've only bough a big mac once in my life, and I spit it out, tastes horrible.Shipping to Norway usually is about 30,- USD. Then again, almost everything is illlegal here, so I can't order it to Norway, thus Finland.
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Big Macs are quite terrible lol, id rather uncap Folli lol (Yes I did it, was a mistake lol)
 
Out of curiosity, why is everyone stressing the % extract? On both follidrone and massterone, I see no mention of a plant extract being used. They both list a pure compound, which according to labeling laws, means that neither is an extract. So you should really just compare dose for dose
 
mr.cooper69 said:
Out of curiosity, why is everyone stressing the % extract? On both follidrone and massterone, I see no mention of a plant extract being used. They both list a pure compound, which according to labeling laws, means that neither is an extract. So you should really just compare dose for dose
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If I'm not mistaken, if the companies are actually using a plant extract, they would be legally obligated to specify the exact plant being used, by its common name.

You can't just have a plant extract, for some % (-)-epicatechin in your product, and then label it as (-)-epicatechin.

But, label law is pretty much ignored by every company so why would anyone expect them to comply in this case ;)
 
mr.cooper69 said:
Out of curiosity, why is everyone stressing the % extract? On both follidrone and massterone, I see no mention of a plant extract being used. They both list a pure compound, which according to labeling laws, means that neither is an extract. So you should really just compare dose for dose
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By this logic we have more so thats that.
 
mr.cooper69 said:
Out of curiosity, why is everyone stressing the % extract? On both follidrone and massterone, I see no mention of a plant extract being used. They both list a pure compound, which according to labeling laws, means that neither is an extract. So you should really just compare dose for dose
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Well one says 90% epi so i figure there must be purity issues at least
 
brundel said:
Unfortunately nothing could be further from the truth. It would cost 35-40$ a bottle just to manufacture. THis means you would likely pay 100$+ a bottle. Assuming it was the proper ingredient. Second, considering clones are already coming out of the woodwork the Prop blend was a good idea. Especially since thus far nobody has got it right.
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No one has got what right? Copying your exact formula? Maybe that isnt the goal? I understand you have a duty to protect your investment but I dont understand the logic that you use to come up with some of these "possibilities". You're right, other products are being released, so tell me that you dont think that A) A company much larger than yours would NOT undercut you to acquire customers, and B) Any given company would not price their product in any sort of relativity to yours in this competition based market. You are far from the first to claim everyone else would price their product significantly higher than your own.

TheMovement said:
Hey I hear ya on that one as Its done on this Forum ALOT! Being one who remembers the first threads from this company asking for loggers, to seeing the landslide of skeptics, and the much more honest active members of this community use, log, and agree that this product has great potential to become a real staple is something that needs to not only be considered its becomes a point of wondering what else Folli is inferior then could this many people be lying? No way, how many sups have you seen fly off the shelf? Hype or no hype I have seen more than my own fair share of effects from it and am sure theres plenty more left. I would like to try it out on a bulk to gauge its muscle building properties but if this product isnt worth throwing the dice on, I beg anyone to tell me what is.
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But again, a lot supplements are like that even if they do nothing; wasnt CEE the ****?
 
nasrenegade said:
No one has got what right? Copying your exact formula? Maybe that isnt the goal? I understand you have a duty to protect your investment but I dont understand the logic that you use to come up with some of these "possibilities". You're right, other products are being released, so tell me that you dont think that A) A company much larger than yours would NOT undercut you to acquire customers, and B) Any given company would not price their product in any sort of relativity to yours in this competition based market. You are far from the first to claim everyone else would price their product significantly higher than your own.


But again, a lot supplements are like that even if they do nothing; wasnt CEE the ****?
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You cant say hundreds of independent logs, majority of them orignally being skeptics, is placebo my friend, im sure when people started logging follidrone, a few of the people just wanted to see it fail to shut down all the ludicrous claims. Turns out it was all true. Have you taken follidrone yet? no. so do yourself a favour and keep your opinion to yourself until you've personally tried and tested it. Don't be a sheep
 
Joshlm69 said:
You cant say hundreds of independent logs, majority of them orignally being skeptics, is placebo my friend, im sure when people started logging follidrone, a few of the people just wanted to see it fail to shut down all the ludicrous claims. Turns out it was all true. Have you taken follidrone yet? no. so do yourself a favour and keep your opinion to yourself until you've personally tried and tested it. Don't be a sheep
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Are you familar with Pink Magic?
 
The selective outrage is funny.


(brb complaining about a supplement/label I'm not going to buy)
 
this is actually becoming pretty amusing to read. why all the bashing? The issue was never that anyone was questioning if follidrone work.
Just by naming another product with the same ingredient, does not mean one is bashing the original product.

There may be a purity issue of the ingredient, or not. and The dosing may be lower, or not. I fully understand that BLR would want to keep the details secret, but then again one would only have his word that theirs dosing is higher.
As a customer which does not know this guy it's hard for me to blindly trust him, tho not fully blind, since I could always look at the logs results.

No one has ever said anyting about Massterone, which may be bad, or good, seems to me like there is only a matter of time till we'll find out, since there are no hard proof that follidrone is dosed higher than massterone.

then again, I'm not taking any side. I'm just trying to spend my money on the best product, from what the hard facts tell me.
 
I wonder how the multiple patent holders with specific claims for human performance enhancement (endurance...vasodilation...strength...via catechins, including specifically (-)-epicatechin would feel about their intellectual property being used by all of these companies with marketing claims that fall within their patents.

Inb4 Tawnsaura buys exclusive licensing rights.
Outb4 lawsuits.
 
De__eB said:
I wonder how the multiple patent holders with specific claims for human performance enhancement (endurance...vasodilation...strength...via catechins, including specifically (-)-epicatechin would feel about their intellectual property being used by all of these companies with marketing claims that fall within their patents.
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You really think people care or is this another gotcha attempt?
 
Admin said:
You really think people care or is this another gotcha attempt?
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I think if the ingredient gains significant traction, law firms like tawnsaura would absolutely make an attempt to get an exclusive license and sue people.

They've paid universities for exclusive licenses with enforcement rights on numerous other ingredients.

There's also a few other abandoned patent applications with varying priority dates that will almost certainly be revived if the Sphaera Pharma clinical trial on the ingredient goes successfully.

I'm just saying I could see a messy legal future coming for the ingredient if it gets very popular and people start seeing dollar signs.
 
De__eB said:
I think if the ingredient gains significant traction, law firms like tawnsaura would absolutely make an attempt to get an exclusive license and sue people.

They've paid universities for exclusive licenses with enforcement rights on numerous other ingredients.

There's also a few other abandoned patent applications with varying priority dates that will almost certainly be revived if the Sphaera Pharma clinical trial on the ingredient goes successfully.

I'm just saying I could see a messy legal future coming for the ingredient if it gets very popular and people start seeing dollar signs.
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I'm sure the companies using it are grateful for your contribution then. Now they are aware.
 
Admin said:
I'm sure the companies using it are grateful for your contribution then. Now they are aware.
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Or companies can just plug their ears and ignore intellectual property issues and get sued, then complain later when they have to pay a settlement.

That's good for consumers and manufacturers amirite?
 
De__eB said:
Or companies can just plug their ears and ignore intellectual property issues and get sued, then complain later when they have to pay a settlement.

That's good for consumers and manufacturers amirite?
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Depends on the IP and patent. There are patents which are valid and patents which are purposefully general and vague for the purpose of patent trolling. Very recently the Supreme Court has ruled software patents which cover "abstract ideas" to be invalid. Something to keep in mind.
 
De__eB said:
Or companies can just plug their ears and ignore intellectual property issues and get sued, then complain later when they have to pay a settlement.

That's good for consumers and manufacturers amirite?
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Like I said, I'm glad we have you here to identify all these potentional threats for companies out there.

I think everyone here believes you do this out of the kindness of your heart. amirite?




If you want to talk about theoretical patents and theoretical lawsuits, you might want to take it somewhere else. It won't look as if you are just trying to stir the pot, because we know you wouldn't do that!
 
De_eb's empathy for the licensing issues facing BLR make me sympathetic to the SNS brand and make me want to purchase more of their products.
 
Admin said:
Like I said, I'm glad we have you here to identify all these potentional threats for companies out there.

I think everyone here believes you do this out of the kindness of your heart. amirite?
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People can believe whatever they want to believe.

Companies ignoring patents is bad for the industry.
Companies spiking products is bad for the industry.
Companies not complying with label law is bad for the industry.
Companies not following GMP is bad for the industry.

I'm a consumer of supplements, I buy and use a lot of supplements.

I'd very much like if the supplement industry stayed as open and unregulated as possible and fostered bringing new ingredients to the market, even ingredients like this that I remain skeptical of.

But if current trends continue, not only will the industry face significant regulatory hardship in the future, but the market will grow less and less hospitable towards small companies, and industry consolidation into very large manufacturers will continue.

Look at my forum history going back years and years and it should be pretty obvious that the issues I go after have nothing to do with specific companies.
 
De__eB said:
People can believe whatever they want to believe.

Companies ignoring patents is bad for the industry.
Companies spiking products is bad for the industry.
Companies not complying with label law is bad for the industry.
Companies not following GMP is bad for the industry.

I'm a consumer of supplements, I buy and use a lot of supplements.

I'd very much like if the supplement industry stayed as open and unregulated as possible and fostered bringing new ingredients to the market, even ingredients like this that I remain skeptical of.

But if current trends continue, not only will the industry face significant regulatory hardship in the future, but the market will grow less and less hospitable towards small companies, and industry consolidation into very large manufacturers will continue.

Look at my forum history going back years and years and it should be pretty obvious that the issues I go after have nothing to do with specific companies.
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Companies very blatantly and obviously patent trolling... bad for everyone, both industry and consumers.
 
Piston Honda said:
De_eb's empathy for the licensing issues facing BLR make me sympathetic to the SNS brand and make me want to purchase more of their products.
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Your empathy for MAN Sports until their board presence was dismantled, followed by your constantly down-talking the brand once you weren't getting free product from them any more make me more sympathetic towards your opinions and make me want to purchase more products you recommend.
 
kissdadookie said:
Companies very blatantly and obviously patent trolling... bad for everyone, both industry and consumers.
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Yes, it is.

But companies should accept the fact that the trolling is here to stay and do something about it.

Look at some of the more recent rights acquisition lawsuits. On ingredients like citrulline.

Fundamental ingredient that everyone had been selling for years and that university patent holders had ZERO intent to enforce.

And yet not one single company even hired a lawyer for a few hours to get a license-on-transfer agreement with the original party?
 
De__eB said:
People can believe whatever they want to believe. Companies ignoring patents is bad for the industry. Companies spiking products is bad for the industry. Companies not complying with label law is bad for the industry. Companies not following GMP is bad for the industry. I'm a consumer of supplements, I buy and use a lot of supplements. I'd very much like if the supplement industry stayed as open and unregulated as possible and fostered bringing new ingredients to the market, even ingredients like this that I remain skeptical of. But if current trends continue, not only will the industry face significant regulatory hardship in the future, but the market will grow less and less hospitable towards small companies, and industry consolidation into very large manufacturers will continue. Look at my forum history going back years and years and it should be pretty obvious that the issues I go after have nothing to do with specific companies.
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....which has nothing to do with thread until you conveniently brought it up. I know your post history...you spend quite a bit of energy pointing out the negatives of other companies.

If you want to talk about the future of the industry and it's legal hurdles, make a thread about it or better yet, write an article and I will make sure it gets noticed....but doing inside this thread looks....suspicious.
 
De__eB said:
Yes, it is.

But companies should accept the fact that the trolling is here to stay and do something about it.

Look at some of the more recent rights acquisition lawsuits. On ingredients like citrulline.

Fundamental ingredient that everyone had been selling for years and that university patent holders had ZERO intent to enforce.

And yet not one single company even hired a lawyer for a few hours to get a license-on-transfer agreement with the original party?
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What can be enforced are novel compounds. Naturally occurring amino acids like cirulline even if you found it worked really well for certain applications is simply next to impossible to enforce, as they are naturally occurring compounds. Even if you include it in a formula, since it's not a drug/pharmaceutical, it's treated as foodstuff and with that, a formula really is just a recipe, recipes are pretty much impossible to protect with a patent thus you would go down the industrial secrets route a la Coca Cola.

Keyword for a valid patent: novelty.

Let's for example say that a person found that sugar boosts performance and this person was practically the first to ever come up with the idea and patents it, you honestly think that's going to stick and be enforceable? It's a novel concept but there's not much that can be enforced since it's a natural substance and contained in a myriad of other things. Now if that person comes up with a tweaked and novel form of sugar, ok, then that person can patent that novel form of sugar that has a novel use.
 
To put things in even easier to understand terms: there's a reason why pharmaceutical companies rarely if ever puts out actual drugs which consists of all natural occurring compounds. Pharmaceutical companies like to go down the route of actually creating new compounds for a reason, because they can easily patent and enforce the patent for the novel compound.
 
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