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Anabeta vs. Anabeta Elite

This is the first I have heard of Forskolin related hair loss.
Must only effect a few, I have done an 8-week run of ABE + 100mg Forskolin (4 caps ASF-95)

Which was +/- 150 mg per day, with no issues whatsoever.
 
This is the first I have heard of Forskolin related hair loss.
Must only effect a few, I have done an 8-week run of ABE + 100mg Forskolin (4 caps ASF-95)

Which was +/- 150 mg per day, with no issues whatsoever.

I don't have any issues either. Not even stomach problems.
 
No issues with hair loss at all.

I had a day or so of loose stools when I started straight in at a high dose but I have a history of IBD. My GI tract is extremely sensitive and Forskolin-95 barely effected it.
 
No issues with hair loss at all. I had a day or so of loose stools when I started straight in at a high dose but I have a history of IBD. My GI tract is extremely sensitive and Forskolin-95 barely effected it.
I notice no hair loss or stool issue. :)
That's right I rock!
 
Forskolin does not act on the AR.

Interesting. Still could trigger hair loss acceleration in prone individuals strictly by virtue of it raising test levels. Androgenic side effects are a highly individualized event; some experience none while others are quite susceptible. I'm in the latter camp. Maybe my sides were due to a combination of the forskolin and anacyclus.

It would be nice to see some in vivo research - both compounds are pretty fascinating.

Monte
 
Interesting. Still could trigger hair loss acceleration in prone individuals strictly by virtue of it raising test levels. Androgenic side effects are a highly individualized event; some experience none while others are quite susceptible. I'm in the latter camp. Maybe my sides were due to a combination of the forskolin and anacyclus.

It would be nice to see some in vivo research - both compounds are pretty fascinating.

Monte

There are close to 10 human studies on forskolin, tens (maybe hundreds) in the murine model, and extensive human traditional medicine use + rodent data on anacyclus pyrethrum. Absolutely no shortage of in vivo data
 
There are close to 10 human studies on forskolin, tens (maybe hundreds) in the murine model, and extensive human traditional medicine use + rodent data on anacyclus pyrethrum. Absolutely no shortage of in vivo data

Thanks - I would be very interested in reviewing them if you can refer me to a link or website.

Best,
Monte
 
Thanks - I would be very interested in reviewing them if you can refer me to a link or website.

Best,
Monte

Pubmed is your friend here. I feel I can safely speak on Coops behalf that he won't link you to all the studies on Forskolin.
 
Thanks, Jiigzz. Always thought that was a fee-based site so I never bothered searching it. Will take a look.

Monte

No problem. Its not fee based but some of the studies cost if you want to read the full text. Luckily my uni subscribes to many journals so I can a few
 
No but it does increase sTAR (steroidogenic-acute-regulatory protein), as well as cAMP - this leads to increases in AR receptor expression. Making it very synergistic with something like say, Quadracarn.

Your first sentence was spot on. I fail to see any synergy with quadracarn though. LCLT has the ability to protect the skeletal muscle AR from exercise-induced damage, but this isn't synergistic: only additive.
 
Your first sentence was spot on. I fail to see any synergy with quadracarn though. LCLT has the ability to protect the skeletal muscle AR from exercise-induced damage, but this isn't synergistic: only additive.

Coop/daAMx: Jiigzz suggested checking out Pubmed; I did and found the following. Would be curious to hear your thoughts (Jiigzz, yours as well). While this is only a single study, it seems to suggest the possibility that forskolin supplementation can accelerate male pattern baldness in genetically susceptible persons:

Evidence that activation of protein kinase A inhibits human hair follicle growth and hair fibre production in organ culture and DNA synthesis in human and mouse
hair follicle organ culture.

Authors Harmon CS, et al. l
Harmon CS, Nevins TD.

JournalBr J Dermatol. 1997 Jun;136(6):853-8.
AffiliationPreclinical Dermatology Research, Hoffmann-La Roche, Nutley, NJ 07110, USA.

Abstract
We have investigated the possibility that protein kinase A (PKA) may play a part in regulating the activity of human and mouse hair follicles in whole organ culture. Human hair follicles were isolated from facial skin by microdissection, and hair follicle and hair fibre length measurements were made daily during suspension culture. Incubation of human hair follicles with dibutyryl-cAMP (db-cAMP) resulted in a dose-dependent inhibition of total cumulative follicle growth (IC50 = 100 mumol/L, 85% inhibition at 1 mmol/L). db-cAMP (0.5 mmol/L) also caused a rapid, partial inhibition of follicular DNA synthesis (20.3% inhibition at 6 h, 48.0% inhibition at 24 h). Human hair follicle growth was inhibited by the phosphodiesterase inhibitors 3-isobutyl-1-methylxanthine and Ro 20-1724, and by the adenylate cyclase activator, forskolin. In addition, db-cAMP inhibited DNA synthesis in organ cultures of whisker follicles isolated from neonatal mice by microdissection. Taken together, these findings indicate that agents which increase cAMP levels are potent inhibitors of human and mouse hair follicle growth, and suggest that PKA may play a part in the regulation of hair follicle activity in vivo.

PMID9217816 [PubMed - indexed for MEDLINE]
 
PKA is a fairly ubiquitous molecule in 2nd messenger cascades. It would be like me saying that breathing air, which contains oxygen, will turn on aerobic respiration and make you burn fat.
 
This is definitely more Coop's field than my own. I'm more of a nutrition/ physiology kind of guy than a biochemist. Although I do try to dabble to biochem somewhat (it interests me), how everything interacts is well beyond my scope of knowledge.

But kudos to looking and investigating for yourself on the subject. :D
 
I never tried Anabeta but have ran an 8 wk cycle of ABE. I'll tell you all this, i am a college football player and used ABE as a bulking agent bc i heard so many great things about it. It is awesome...i noticed a big difference weighing at 205 w/ and w/o supplementing ABE....without using ABE to go from 190 to 205 in 8wks, i gained more fat and lost lots of vascularity in my upper body....energy was low and felt like a fat ass....but taking ABE made me gain wt in different areas of my body in a good way...i look really thick, more explosive, and retained all vascularity using this product...i know its not a PED but sort of works like one for me....i got bigger, faster, and stronger w/ this product....most ppl will say "it's all in your head. you got all those results from hard work and dedication." that is certainly true, but ABE is that difference maker. I am totally bought in w/ this product and cant wait for new formula to come out
 
PKA is a fairly ubiquitous molecule in 2nd messenger cascades. It would be like me saying that breathing air, which contains oxygen, will turn on aerobic respiration and make you burn fat.

Coop, thanks. Understood, but what caught my eye was this: "Taken together, these findings indicate that agents which increase cAMP levels are potent inhibitors of human and mouse hair follicle growth..."

Forskolin would qualify as an "agent which increases cAMP levels," correct? If so, then this study would imply that forskolin (and similar cAMP-increasing agents) is detrimental to human/mouse hair follicle growth.

Monte
 
I never tried Anabeta but have ran an 8 wk cycle of ABE. I'll tell you all this, i am a college football player and used ABE as a bulking agent bc i heard so many great things about it. It is awesome...i noticed a big difference weighing at 205 w/ and w/o supplementing ABE....without using ABE to go from 190 to 205 in 8wks, i gained more fat and lost lots of vascularity in my upper body....energy was low and felt like a fat ass....but taking ABE made me gain wt in different areas of my body in a good way...i look really thick, more explosive, and retained all vascularity using this product...i know its not a PED but sort of works like one for me....i got bigger, faster, and stronger w/ this product....most ppl will say "it's all in your head. you got all those results from hard work and dedication." that is certainly true, but ABE is that difference maker. I am totally bought in w/ this product and cant wait for new formula to come out

Congrats on the fine results. I also noticed improvements on the recomp side. Refreshing to see a quality OTC as I've been burned many times in the past (haven't we all?).

Monte
 
This is definitely more Coop's field than my own. I'm more of a nutrition/ physiology kind of guy than a biochemist. Although I do try to dabble to biochem somewhat (it interests me), how everything interacts is well beyond my scope of knowledge.

But kudos to looking and investigating for yourself on the subject. :D

Well, thanks for the suggestion, bro - I might evolve into a Pubmed junkie. So much information, so little time...

Best,
Monte
 
Coop, thanks. Understood, but what caught my eye was this: "Taken together, these findings indicate that agents which increase cAMP levels are potent inhibitors of human and mouse hair follicle growth..."

Forskolin would qualify as an "agent which increases cAMP levels," correct? If so, then this study would imply that forskolin (and similar cAMP-increasing agents) is detrimental to human/mouse hair follicle growth.

Monte

This is too deep of an extrapolation, again. Human trials typically report adverse effects, and in the case of forskolin, alopecia was never noted as far as I know...only GI discomfort.
 
This is too deep of an extrapolation, again. Human trials typically report adverse effects, and in the case of forskolin, alopecia was never noted as far as I know...only GI discomfort.

Coop, thanks. I'll respectfully disagree the extrapolation is too far-reaching. I think it is a reasonable question to raise 1) based on the Hoffmann-LaRoach study I shared (stating cAMP-increasing agents inhibit human hair growth) and 2) given forskolin's ability to raise testosterone levels. These two items alone suggest the possibility MPB *could* be accelerated in prone persons. You mentioned there are approximately 10 human studies on forskolin, so the data we have to work with is quite limited and I'm not sure how much we can conclude (Note: I will search for those studies on Pubmed - curious about study construction, duration, dose, sample population, etc.).

I'm a strong believer in scrutinizing the side effect profile of our supplements. Some people may view even the potential for accelerated MPB as an unacceptable risk. MPB varies from person to person and clearly not everyone will be adversely impacted. Only time will tell.

Here is another study about forskolin's potential deleterious impact on hair follicles:

Localization of forskolin-binding cyclases in bullfrog saccular hair cells
Peter S STEYGER PhD , Andrew J. HORDICHOK , Sarah Peters

Invalid Link Removed

"Forskolin activates adenylate cyclase and up-regulates cAMP synthesis, killing hair cells while inducing DNA synthesis and cell division in supporting cells (2). Fluorescent BODIPY-forskolin labels enteric neurons that co-express calbindin and has similar distribution patterns to anti-adenylate cyclase (4). Cyclases and associated proteins are also involved in polymerization of actin filaments (3). To identify the distribution of forskolin-binding cyclases that may be involved in the differential cell-specific activity and toxicity of forskolin in the inner ear, we incubated bullfrog saccular explants in amphibian culture media supplemented with 150 M BODIPY-forskolin (Molecular Probes). Control explants received 150 M BODIPY. After 1 hour, explants were fixed and mounted for confocal microscopy using a x60 (n.a. 1.4) lens, with an xy resolution of 230 nm.
BODIPY-forskolin was specifically localized in the hair bundles, and pericuticular cytoplasm (single arrowheads) of hair cells. Diffuse labeling was observed throughout the hair cell and supporting cell soma. The cellular regions associated with the junctional complex were negligibly labeled. A thin band of labeling was clearly visible within this presumed junctional complex (double arrowheads in A), probably delineating the membranous interface between two adjacent cells. This labeling pattern mimics the 'negative' labeling pattern of fluorescent phalloidin that labels the actiniferous junctional complex, yet excluded from a thin band at the center of the multi-cellular junctional complex (double arrowhead in B). The hair cell labeling of BODIPY-forskolin strongly resembles that for calbindin (1). The distribution of BODIPY-forskolin suggests that forskolin-binding cyclases may be involved in assembly and maintenance of the actin cytoskeleton (3), as well as cellular mechanisms of ototoxicity.

1 Baird et al (1997) Hear Res 103:85-100.
2 Bell et al (1999) ARO Midwinter Meeting Abstracts 25:#518.
3 Freeman NL, Field J (2000) Cell Motil Cytoskeleton 45:106-120.
4 Liu et al (1998) Cell Tissue Res 293:57-73.

Funded by Oregon Lions Sight & Hearing Foundation & NIDCD 03028
 
Look, I don't want to be a prick so I won't argue any further, but you are completely and I mean completely off base in your investigation here. I mean, the "hair cells" in the study you just posted are inner ear hair cells, which are NEURONS. But I digress. Herein lies the danger of attempting to construe bits and pieces of science without a proper background in the big picture
 
Look, I don't want to be a prick so I won't argue any further, but you are completely and I mean completely off base in your investigation here. I mean, the "hair cells" in the study you just posted are inner ear hair cells, which are NEURONS. But I digress. Herein lies the danger of attempting to construe bits and pieces of science without a proper background in the big picture

First, it would be nice to discuss these things in a civil manner and without sarcasm. And let's forget both studies for a moment. The mere fact that forskolin can raise T levels means it possesses the possibly to exacerbate hair loss in prone individuals. Period. That is not conjecture. More T means potentially more DHT conversion in prone persons, leading to potentially accelerated hair loss. I raised a reasonable point for discussion - I was not "arguing" as you put it. I was trying to engage in a discussion.

I recently started posting again on this board. But if this is how new ideas are treated by senior vets, maybe those thoughts best belong elsewhere.

Thanks to everyone who contributed to the discussion and PM'ed on this topic.

Monte
 
I appreciate your curiosity Monte, but I would use caution with these studies. Pathways tend to have A LOT of regulation and feedback loops, so just because something causes an increase in the lab, it may get canceled out in the human body. You also have to think about significance. Just because something causes a change, doesn't mean that it is enough to actually do anything in real life. I would recommend keeping that in mind when looking through future articles. Also, be cautious about abstracts. People tend to straight up lie or at least exaggerate about their findings in the abstract as compared to what the actual results show :)
 
I appreciate your curiosity Monte, but I would use caution with these studies. Pathways tend to have A LOT of regulation and feedback loops, so just because something causes an increase in the lab, it may get canceled out in the human body. You also have to think about significance. Just because something causes a change, doesn't mean that it is enough to actually do anything in real life. I would recommend keeping that in mind when looking through future articles. Also, be cautious about abstracts. People tend to straight up lie or at least exaggerate about their findings in the abstract as compared to what the actual results show :)

Aleksandar, thanks for the note and your suggestion about reading too much into studies. It's definitely a fair point. Studies aside, I think it is important to focus on any compound that impacts hormone levels - something forskolin seems to do. Increasing T levels can lead to undesirable sides in certain persons and in some groups - men with with prostate issues, for instance - it can be hazardous.

I think it's a fascinating supplement. I thought it worked well but the androgenic sides were too much for me. In the next life, maybe I won't be the poster boy for androgenic side effects. Ha ha.

Best,
Monte
 
First, it would be nice to discuss these things in a civil manner and without sarcasm. And let's forget both studies for a moment. The mere fact that forskolin can raise T levels means it possesses the possibly to exacerbate hair loss in prone individuals. Period. That is not conjecture. More T means potentially more DHT conversion in prone persons, leading to potentially accelerated hair loss. I raised a reasonable point for discussion - I was not "arguing" as you put it. I was trying to engage in a discussion.

I recently started posting again on this board. But if this is how new ideas are treated by senior vets, maybe those thoughts best belong elsewhere.

Thanks to everyone who contributed to the discussion and PM'ed on this topic.

Monte

No sarcasm my friend. My post was completely serious. I seriously don't want to argue further because we will end up agreeing to disagree. I highly encourage doing your own research and I think it's great that you're doing it. I'm just trying to put it in perspective of the big picture.
 
Shave your head like me. Problem solved. (Mine's genetic btw)
 
No sarcasm my friend. My post was completely serious. I seriously don't want to argue further because we will end up agreeing to disagree. I highly encourage doing your own research and I think it's great that you're doing it. I'm just trying to put it in perspective of the big picture.

Coop, thanks. I welcome the varying opinions - makes life interesting and forces us to examine the other side of the equation. And that's a good thing. I wish you well.

Monte
 
No sarcasm my friend. My post was completely serious. I seriously don't want to argue further because we will end up agreeing to disagree. I highly encourage doing your own research and I think it's great that you're doing it. I'm just trying to put it in perspective of the big picture.

Awesome post here Coop. Reading through this I encourage you Monte and everyone on this board to do the research. Search pubmed and do some leg work it always feels good to me when I have free time to really delve into some good old research.
 
Montego, my brother did that and he's loving it. I'll probably join you in the not-too-distant future.

Or do what I've done. Still have a head of hair after battling hair loss for 15 years through a combination of topical antiandrogens and hair transplants.
 
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