Appetite Suppressant without Stims

There is no such thing as "addictive personality" and you wouldn't know if you would become addicted to nicotine if you had never used it before. Addiction isn't a cover all. If someone is addicted to alcohol it doesn't mean they would become addicted to say creak cocain or vise versa.
 
Montego1 said:
There is no such thing as "addictive personality"
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Lol, you're kidding right? There is actual neurophysiology backing this up, not psychology. It has to do with excessive dopamine release from the ventral tegmental area into the nucleus accumbens, and yes, this predisposes to a variety of drug addictions because addictive drugs, by nature, cause a surge of dopamine in this reward center
 
Grambo said:
Unless you've had trouble with smoking/dipping/etc or possibly an addictive personality in the past in reality there is little chance of addiction with the gum. It's not as if you chew it and then can't stop. Also I've never smoked/dipped but I've used the gum and have zero desire to use the tobacco products.
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What would a pharmacologist need to know about addiction? Plz go
 
mr.cooper69 said:
Lol, you're kidding right? There is actual neurophysiology backing this up, not psychology. It has to do with excessive dopamine release from the ventral tegmental area into the nucleus accumbens, and yes, this predisposes to a variety of drug addictions because addictive drugs, by nature, cause a surge of dopamine in this reward center
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There is such thing as a generic pre disposition to addict but this has absolutely nothing to do with your personality.
 
mr.cooper69 said:
Lol, you're kidding right? There is actual neurophysiology backing this up, not psychology. It has to do with excessive dopamine release from the ventral tegmental area into the nucleus accumbens, and yes, this predisposes to a variety of drug addictions because addictive drugs, by nature, cause a surge of dopamine in this reward center
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Those dopamine releases you speak of don't activate from just drugs either. They activate from even seeing a drug. Or going to an aa or na meeting. There is nothing that can change your personality enough to make you become an addict. End of story. Being dependant on some drugs such as opiods though surely happens.
 
mr.cooper69 said:
Lol, you're kidding right? There is actual neurophysiology backing this up, not psychology. It has to do with excessive dopamine release from the ventral tegmental area into the nucleus accumbens, and yes, this predisposes to a variety of drug addictions because addictive drugs, by nature, cause a surge of dopamine in this reward center
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And no just because you are an addict doesn't mean you will crave all drugs the same. Sorry bud I've been down this road.
 
Montego1 said:
There is such thing as a generic pre disposition to addict but this has absolutely nothing to do with your personality.
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That's just semantics. And it can be environmental too

Montego1 said:
Those dopamine releases you speak of don't activate from just drugs either. They activate from even seeing a drug. Or going to an aa or na meeting. There is nothing that can change your personality enough to make you become an addict. End of story. Being dependant on some drugs such as opiods though surely happens.
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Sorry, this is totally false. Drugs are physiologically addicting because of this dopamine release. Talking about drugs at an AA meeting isn't going to trigger a dopamine surge like amphetamines would.

Montego1 said:
And no just because you are an addict doesn't mean you will crave all drugs the same. Sorry bud I've been down this road.
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Did I say you'll crave all drugs if you're an addict? Come on now...
 
mr.cooper69 said:
That's just semantics. And it can be environmental too


Sorry, this is totally false. Drugs are physiologically addicting because of this dopamine release. Talking about drugs at an AA meeting isn't going to trigger a dopamine surge like amphetamines would.

Did I say you'll crave all drugs if you're an addict? Come on now...
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The environment you are in has absolutely NOTHING to do with you being an addict. A person who grows up in the slums of Harlem and a person who grows up in a small town in Iowa have the same chance of becoming an addict if they are both pre-disposed GENETICLY to be addicts. The environment might supply more drugs to a person but they do not change the end result at all bud.

Since you like studies so much there is research showing subjects who are having brain scans during an AA meeting have the exact same parts of the brain firing and going off as if they were actually using. And yes talking about drugs to an addict DOES induce said brain activity. Talk to a recovering amphetamine user about doing meth and see what happens. Feet will start to tap. Eyes will start to dart around. Almost exactly the same response as using the drug itself.

You said "and yes, this predisposes to a variety of drug addictions because addictive drugs, by nature, cause a surge of dopamine in this reward center"

Many addicts only addict to a single drug or substance and don't have the taste for others. A drug of choice its called. So you come on man.
 
Montego1 said:
The environment you are in has absolutely NOTHING to do with you being an addict. A person who grows up in the slums of Harlem and a person who grows up in a small town in Iowa have the same chance of becoming an addict if they are both pre-disposed GENETICLY to be addicts. The environment might supply more drugs to a person but they do not change the end result at all bud.

Since you like studies so much there is research showing subjects who are having brain scans during an AA meeting have the exact same parts of the brain firing and going off as if they were actually using. And yes talking about drugs to an addict DOES induce said brain activity. Talk to a recovering amphetamine user about doing meth and see what happens. Feet will start to tap. Eyes will start to dart around. Almost exactly the same response as using the drug itself.

You said "and yes, this predisposes to a variety of drug addictions because addictive drugs, by nature, cause a surge of dopamine in this reward center"

Many addicts only addict to a single drug or substance and don't have the taste for others. A drug of choice its called. So you come on man.
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I'm sorry, but what are you talking about in your first paragraph? What you just detailed is the opposite of reality. Environmental factors have nothing to do with addiction? If this were the case, mono/dizygotic twin studies would show 100% concordance with genetics. They don't. OF COURSE environmental factors can influence rates of addiction. To postulate otherwise is to live in a fantasy world.

I don't "like studies so much." Please stop putting me in this light as someone who only bases my thoughts off concrete-evidence. I have taken electives in addiction, worked with addicts, attended open AA meetings...but hey, studies studies studies! Since I love studies, I'll cite that 0% of concordance studies (of the thousands that have been conducted) show that environment has no effect on addiction.

Brain scans show what? A still-life image of the brain. I'm going to assume you meant fMRI/PET. Now, do these show release of dopamine, including the magnitude and duration? No. They show the anatomical region of the brain that receives greater bloodflow (perceived as higher metabolic demand) in response to a certain stimulus. I have NO DOUBT that regions in the mesolimbic system will fire in response to an AA meeting. However, to liken this metabolic response to the surge of dopamine that an addictive drug creates is...unreasonable. I'm not talking about how the subjects will react. I'm talking about the actual physiologic response.

And to your last point, the drug of choice simply uses a NT release mechanism to which the individual is most pre-disposed. That has nothing to do with their increased susceptibility to intrinsically addicting substances.
 
I shall let grambo take it from here. Given his background, he's probably the most qualified to speak on addiction of anyone in this thread. Plus, I'm trying to wind down right now, not get into a debate
 
mr.cooper69 said:
I'm sorry, but what are you talking about in your first paragraph? What you just detailed is the opposite of reality. Environmental factors have nothing to do with addiction? If this were the case, mono/dizygotic twin studies would show 100% concordance with genetics. They don't. OF COURSE environmental factors can influence rates of addiction. To postulate otherwise is to live in a fantasy world.

I don't "like studies so much." Please stop putting me in this light as someone who only bases my thoughts off concrete-evidence. I have taken electives in addiction, worked with addicts, attended open AA meetings...but hey, studies studies studies! Since I love studies, I'll cite that 0% of concordance studies (of the thousands that have been conducted) show that environment has no effect on addiction.

Brain scans show what? A still-life image of the brain. I'm going to assume you meant fMRI/PET. Now, do these show release of dopamine, including the magnitude and duration? No. They show the anatomical region of the brain that receives greater bloodflow (perceived as higher metabolic demand) in response to a certain stimulus. I have NO DOUBT that regions in the mesolimbic system will fire in response to an AA meeting. However, to liken this metabolic response to the surge of dopamine that an addictive drug creates is...unreasonable. I'm not talking about how the subjects will react. I'm talking about the actual physiologic response.

And to your last point, the drug of choice simply uses a NT release mechanism to which the individual is most pre-disposed. That has nothing to do with their increased susceptibility to intrinsically addicting substances.
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My first paragraph is stating that because you are raised around drugs. Because you take drugs. Because your momma took drugs has NOTHING to do with if you are an addict. There is no choice in addiction. You think people who are addicts actually ENJOY being addicts? The only way an environment can influence addiction is if you are geneticly pre-dispositioned to addict AND drugs are more redily available for use. When you are shat out of your mothers womb you are either an addict or you are not. And of course identical twins are not really identical are they?

Ok Im not by any means a scientist and have nfi what a mFRI or a PET are. This was a general statement for 99% of the people on this board who are like me and have no clue what certain medical procedures are used in whatever case it may be and their exact terminoligy. And no I did NOT say that an AA or NA meeting will give the same high as actually using. Just that the same synapsis in the brain fire when exposed to a stimulus. If of course you don't believe me I can dig up the studies on this.

And your last point. You contradicted yourself. Like I said not all drugs will have the same effect on the addict so yeah.

So here are my questions to you.

Are you born an addict?
Could I make YOU an addict? Or could I only make you dependant on a drug?
 
SXIPro said:
This thread is full of FAIL.
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Am not really seeing full of fail only a rooting out for truth.
mr.cooper69 said:
I'm sorry, but what are you talking about in your first paragraph? What you just detailed is the opposite of reality. Environmental factors have nothing to do with addiction? If this were the case, mono/dizygotic twin studies would show 100% concordance with genetics. They don't. OF COURSE environmental factors can influence rates of addiction. To postulate otherwise is to live in a fantasy world.
Click to expand...
 
Sorry OP for derailing the thread. My apologies.
 
Montego1 said:
My first paragraph is stating that because you are raised around drugs. Because you take drugs. Because your momma took drugs has NOTHING to do with if you are an addict. There is no choice in addiction. You think people who are addicts actually ENJOY being addicts? The only way an environment can influence addiction is if you are geneticly pre-dispositioned to addict AND drugs are more redily available for use. When you are shat out of your mothers womb you are either an addict or you are not. And of course identical twins are not really identical are they?

Ok Im not by any means a scientist and have nfi what a mFRI or a PET are. This was a general statement for 99% of the people on this board who are like me and have no clue what certain medical procedures are used in whatever case it may be and their exact terminoligy. And no I did NOT say that an AA or NA meeting will give the same high as actually using. Just that the same synapsis in the brain fire when exposed to a stimulus. If of course you don't believe me I can dig up the studies on this.

And your last point. You contradicted yourself. Like I said not all drugs will have the same effect on the addict so yeah.

So here are my questions to you.

Are you born an addict?
Could I make YOU an addict? Or could I only make you dependant on a drug?
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Environments affect people in the worst ways...it is the permissive nature of "evil" or "ill doing" in those environments which can distort personalities into those of chronic addicts or "evil doers". Now the evil can be even done to themselves...or to someone else, in which case addicts do both. True that some can be genetically pre-dispossed to a different "drug of choice" due to the larger reaction one can get form it, but it is ultimately the environment which will play a huge roll also in the matter of going snowballing down hill in the hill of evil done to thyself or to thy peers...I actually do know of a sociological study that can show how the environment can twist and destroy someone's personality. While not directly related to drugs...you can see that even sociological evidence exists that the environment can coerce people into darkness, and one can realize that even when in this study it is not about hurting themselves (and thus those around them) with drugs, you can see what I mean about the environment pushing them, and allowing them to do it...

[video=youtube;OsFEV35tWsg]http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=OsFEV35tWsg[/video]

Alas just an analogy but I did love the video a lot, and do think that it can be used as a way to show that the environment will , and can affect someone's personality, and their choices. So not only does the medical side of it proves it, but also sociological evidence? Just food for thought...

Not trying to raise any anger or anything...just became an addict to TED Talks again haha, and like spreading the good ones around ^^
 
I have always had an issue with hunger no matter what fat loss product I took, however I have recently started taking DCP 2.0 and literally have to force myself to eat!
 
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