DS Craze Lawsuit and FDA Action

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Patrick Arnold said:
need a better description of the chemical

does this mean N,alpha-diethyl-benzeneethanamine?

that would be very interesting. and very naughty!
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Check out post #59 on page 4 and post #112 (paragraph 1) on page 8. Thats the most informative post and what i based mine off. There are others posts if you want to look. They do not give more detail on the technical compound name though. And you are correct, I meant analog, not precursor. I will fix my post.
 
OMG

i cant say this is not a hoax. but this guy says N.alpha. which means deliberate methamphetamine analog. this is so serious i cant even imagine the implications to the industry. this could destroy our industry (if true)

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Docmattic said:
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Check out post #59 on page 4 and post #112 (paragraph 1) on page 8. Thats the most informative post and what i based mine off. There are others posts if you want to look. They do not give more detail on the technical compound name though. And you are correct, I meant analog, not precursor. I will fix my post.
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your posts are inaccurate chemically wise

what would be important here is to know the stereochemistry of this alleged n,alpha-diethyl. is it L (that would not be as bad but then it wouldnt really work). Is it D (very bad). Racemic (pretty much just as bad)
 
LMR01 said:
yes this is the one (confirmed from email from aus customs). pls tell us more about this
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Is this a personal email or something you can link to?
 
Patrick Arnold said:
your posts are inaccurate chemically wise

what would be important here is to know the stereochemistry of this alleged n,alpha-diethyl. is it L (that would not be as bad but then it wouldnt really work). Is it D (very bad). Racemic (pretty much just as bad)
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Sorry, i was just copy pasting. The information i am posting is not from my posts.
 
Docmattic said:
Is this a personal email or something you can link to?
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i think i will write a blog tomorrow and include structures

i will be careful to maintain that all this is alleged. However since its all over the net no on can accuse me of purposely trying to derail a company. Just reporting
 
The decision of the Leagues Anti-Doping Tribunal to impose a two-year sporting ban on Invalid Link Removed Troy Errington for the presence of prohibited substances has been acknowledged by the Australian Sports Anti-Doping Authority (ASADA).The substances 1-Phenylbutan-2-amine and N,alpha-diethyl-benzeneethanamine were detected in a sample ASADA collected in-competition from Mr Errington at a Sydney Shield match on 28 July 2012. The ban imposed on the Sydney Shield rugby league player by the Leagues Anti-Doping Tribunal was backdated to commence on the date of his provisional suspension. This means that Errington is ineligible to participate as an athlete or support person, in any sport that has adopted a World Anti-Doping Agency (Invalid Link Removed) compliant anti-doping policy until 25 August 2014.Despite the fact that 1-Phenylbutan-2-amine and N,alpha-diethyl-benzeneethanamine are not specifically named on WADA’s 2012 Prohibited List, they have similar chemical and biological effects of amphetamines and therefore classed as Category 6b stimulants on the List and are prohibited in competition. Stimulants generally act directly on the central nervous system for speeding up parts of the brain and body besides reduce fatigue and increasing alertness in athletes.In another development, rugby league player Terry Bridge has received a four-year anti-doping suspension from UK Anti-Doping after he was found guilty of multiple anti-doping offenses having been sentenced to ten months in prison for the possession of steroids in November 2011. He is banned from participation in sport from 6 February 2012 until 5 February 2016.

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hmmmm. craze?

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Patrick Arnold said:
what would be important here is to know the stereochemistry of this alleged n,alpha-diethyl. is it L (that would not be as bad but then it wouldnt really work). Is it D (very bad). Racemic (pretty much just as bad)
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You really think the chinese would make it stereoselective?
 
lronFist said:
You really think the chinese would make it stereoselective?
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i would suspect racemic yes. altough off the top of my head i cant really think of how this would be synthesized. i guess i dont spend alot of time thinking about synthesizing amphetamine analogsthats a good thing
 
Patrick Arnold said:
there is a n,alpha-diethylcathinone??

and its active?

tell me more!!
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Well I don't know offhand if there is an N,Alpha-diethylcathinone. I was just showing that the N-ethyl can be removed en vivo to the primary amine, which is what the guy popped for (in addition to the N, alpha-diethyl derivative)


or...it was just a contaminate. :)
 
lronFist said:
Well I don't know offhand if there is an N,Alpha-diethylcathinone. I was just showing that the N-ethyl can be removed en vivo to the primary amine, which is what the guy popped for (in addition to the N, alpha-diethyl derivative)


or...it was just a contaminate. :)
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but if you removed the ethyl from the n you would get 1-Phenylbutan-2-amine

ethyl plus ethyl equals butyl, and the amine is at position 2

you are spot on

i am gonna look so smart in my blog!
 
Oh ****, how did this happen and no one caught when under scrutiny and doing testing on Craze. I am under wada and I get screened at work. I would hunt fat boy mc down and do some serious orbital, radius and ulna damage if I pegged because of Craze. I may be missing something because you guys are kind of beating around the bush. Will Craze make you test positive depending on panels tested? WADA is way broader than my work or sponsors. I did get tested after Craze and also passed a hair test, but hair test was only like ten panel or five panel.
 
996ttelise said:
Oh ****, how did this happen and no one caught when under scrutiny and doing testing on Craze. I am under wada and I get screened at work. I would hunt fat boy mc down and do some serious orbital, radius and ulna damage if I pegged because of Craze. I may be missing something because you guys are kind of beating around the bush. Will Craze make you test positive depending on panels tested? WADA is way broader than my work or sponsors. I did get tested after Craze and also passed a hair test, but hair test was only like ten panel or five panel.
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this is a very legitimate and interesting question. Hmmmm

ASADA found it. But was that after they found out it was in craze (allegedly) and decided to screen for it?

Why wouldnt it cross react on an immunoassay?

Unfortunately I am not knowledgable enough to answer these questions
 
So if Craze possibly contains an analog of methamphetamine, and if I have taken Craze several times and felt NO effects aside from increased BP/HR, does that mean I would be a "non-responder" to methamphetamine? Just curious...
 
SpicedCider said:
So if Craze possibly contains an analog of methamphetamine, and if I have taken Craze several times and felt NO effects aside from increased BP/HR, does that mean I would be a "non-responder" to methamphetamine? Just curious...
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its so confusing cuz there are supposedly good batches of craze and bad batches

and then supposed counterfeits
 
Patrick Arnold said:
its so confusing cuz there are supposedly good batches of craze and bad batches

and then supposed counterfeits
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A few months ago, I actually went out of my way to contact 30+ online supplement retailers and tracked down a tub of Grape Craze from an early production run. I noticed that it increased my HR/BP moreso than Craze from more recent batches, but I still didn't feel any of the euphoria, energy, etc. It was like I took a heart attack-promoting pill.
 
Some guy from Australia received a letter from customs that Craze contained N,alpha-diethyl-benzeneethanamine. Invalid Link Removed

But meh, I want to see an official release from somewhere legit that it does contain something other than what is listed.
 
I tried this when it first came out, bought a jar, split it with my roommate, neither of us felt a thing. Bad batch or non-responders...who knows.
 
This is a total ****ing joke, whatever is in craz the half life is way shorter than any amphetamine type drug I've ever heard of. I'm also "experienced" with amphetamines and craze definitely dosnt have any of the typical fiendish craving causing effects that should come with something that is strongly dopaminergic. I'm putting the effects on crappy qa on the raws, specifically all the PEAs.
 
SpicedCider said:
A few months ago, I actually went out of my way to contact 30+ online supplement retailers and tracked down a tub of Grape Craze from an early production run. I noticed that it increased my HR/BP moreso than Craze from more recent batches, but I still didn't feel any of the euphoria, energy, etc. It was like I took a heart attack-promoting pill.
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I have it to, I notice increased HR fot hrs after!
 
Just came out of massive joes supplement store...

They said DS have asked them to take the YouTube clip about craze having a analogue of meth in it, because DS needs more information about it before people make accusations.

He went on and said "we have a letter from a pharmacist saying they found it in there"

I don't personally give a crap about it, tried it, was ok. Not a massive fan
 
Patrick Arnold said:
i think i will write a blog tomorrow and include structures

i will be careful to maintain that all this is alleged. However since its all over the net no on can accuse me of purposely trying to derail a company. Just reporting
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I hope to hell none of this is true. One, that means hundreds and more likely thousands of us were putting that in our bodies. Two, you're right abou the impact on the industry. $30 for a bottle of Vitamin C might not be as unrealisitc as once thought.... and not so far off either. I hope it's all overexaggerated and not as bad as it looks, but wow that will be bad for so many people if it's not. Look forward to the blog post, PA.
 
tigerbunny said:
This is a total ****ing joke, whatever is in craz the half life is way shorter than any amphetamine type drug I've ever heard of. I'm also "experienced" with amphetamines and craze definitely dosnt have any of the typical fiendish craving causing effects that should come with something that is strongly dopaminergic. I'm putting the effects on crappy qa on the raws, specifically all the PEAs.
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Bro, I'm "experienced" with amphetamines, too (just not meth). The first three tubs of Craze I tried were unlike anything I've experienced from a dietary supplement. I could take 2 scoops of that in the morning and be good to go for 6+ hours. And it definately gave me the urge to re-dose like amphetamines tend to do. The crash from Craze was horrific and even 12+ hours after taking it my heart was still racing.
It didn't have your classic amphetamine feel though I've only taken Adderall so couldn't really compare it to standalone D-Aphetamine or Methamphetamine. But it definately had a "drug-like" feel to it as well as side-effects.
Maybe you got one of the later batches. Sounds like you didn't take what myself and so many others did.
 
Yeah this is all over Aussie sites.
Apparently stocks are running low.
Quick search of eBay shows prices between $80 to $170 AUD.
Not a big fan of it, definitely not worth $80 and certainly not $170 lol

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The product Driven Sports Craze was recently tested by the National Measurement Institute (NMI) on behalf of the Australian Sports Anti-Doping Authority (ASADA).

The results indicated that Driven Sports Craze was found to contain Alpha-Diethyl-Benzeneethamine which is a synonym for Methamphetamine.

Methamphetamine contains the stereoisomer Levomethamphetamine which is a prohibited import substance under Customs legislation.

As a result, the importation of Driven Sports Craze into Australia would see the product seized by Customs officials due the presence of this prohibited import ingredient present in the formulation.

As a result, the importation of Driven Sports Craze into Australia is a Customs matter.

Businesses or persons supplying Driven Sports Craze within Australia are liable to action from the relevant Food Authority Enforcement Branch in each State as Driven Sports Craze is a powder product that you add water to before consuming. These types of products are generally considered to be foods.

The TGA are responsible for the regulation of medicines which are typically products in capsule and tablet format that make therapeutic claims on the label.
 
Jiigzz said:
Some guy from Australia received a letter from customs that Craze contained N,alpha-diethyl-benzeneethanamine. Invalid Link Removed

But meh, I want to see an official release from somewhere legit that it does contain something other than what is listed.
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yes thats the structure, an alternative name (probably the more common name)
 
Glad I'm not in Australia. I love the product. Been using it from the beginning. IMO, nothing can touch the focus I get from it, without the anxiety or elevated heart rate. Top notch product IMO.
 
Ceredumbellum said:
I hope to hell none of this is true. One, that means hundreds and more likely thousands of us were putting that in our bodies. Two, you're right abou the impact on the industry. $30 for a bottle of Vitamin C might not be as unrealisitc as once thought.... and not so far off either. I hope it's all overexaggerated and not as bad as it looks, but wow that will be bad for so many people if it's not. Look forward to the blog post, PA.
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maybe people will stop talking about DMAA for five minutes OTOH
 
Ceredumbellum said:
Bro, I'm "experienced" with amphetamines, too (just not meth). The first three tubs of Craze I tried were unlike anything I've experienced from a dietary supplement. I could take 2 scoops of that in the morning and be good to go for 6+ hours. And it definately gave me the urge to re-dose like amphetamines tend to do. The crash from Craze was horrific and even 12+ hours after taking it my heart was still racing.
It didn't have your classic amphetamine feel though I've only taken Adderall so couldn't really compare it to standalone D-Aphetamine or Methamphetamine. But it definately had a "drug-like" feel to it as well as side-effects.
Maybe you got one of the later batches. Sounds like you didn't take what myself and so many others did.
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Theoretically speaking we really dunno exactly what the effects of this meth analog would be. It is expected to be resistant to MAO because of the alpha ethyl group so it should last a while. It should penetrate BBB. However its effects on neurotransmission cant really be predicted by a cursory look at the structure (at least not by me)
 
Ceredumbellum said:
Bro, I'm "experienced" with amphetamines, too (just not meth). The first three tubs of Craze I tried were unlike anything I've experienced from a dietary supplement. I could take 2 scoops of that in the morning and be good to go for 6+ hours. And it definately gave me the urge to re-dose like amphetamines tend to do. The crash from Craze was horrific and even 12+ hours after taking it my heart was still racing.
It didn't have your classic amphetamine feel though I've only taken Adderall so couldn't really compare it to standalone D-Aphetamine or Methamphetamine. But it definately had a "drug-like" feel to it as well as side-effects.
Maybe you got one of the later batches. Sounds like you didn't take what myself and so many others did.
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I was going off of the assumption this was still in craze today given that AU customs got mad about this like last month. I had 1 tub of the original craze with the throat numbing and everything. It probably was better, but since then ther has still been some variability from batch to batch. If this compound still is in craze, it's not what drove the effects of the original.
 
tigerbunny said:
This is a total ****ing joke, whatever is in craz the half life is way shorter than any amphetamine type drug I've ever heard of. I'm also "experienced" with amphetamines and craze definitely dosnt have any of the typical fiendish craving causing effects that should come with something that is strongly dopaminergic. I'm putting the effects on crappy qa on the raws, specifically all the PEAs.
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this is the monoethyl but i would expect similarities

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it says greatly reduced dopaminergic. interesting
 
I see them doubling-down big time on the whole "counterfeit Craze" explanation if even half of what I'm reading on the internet is true. Even so... it's probably not gonna turn out good for several people.
 
Ceredumbellum said:
I see them doubling-down big time on the whole "counterfeit Craze" explanation if even half of what I'm reading on the internet is true. Even so... it's probably not gonna turn out good for several people.
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a conspiracy minded individual might find that counterfeit thing to be quite "convenient"
 
Ceredumbellum said:
I see them doubling-down big time on the whole "counterfeit Craze" explanation if even half of what I'm reading on the internet is true. Even so... it's probably not gonna turn out good for several people.
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No joke. I swear craze messed up body. I have lingering constant chest/heart pain on my left side 24/7. It used to only happen on craze days and I eventually stop but the side effect never did. Also, I got bloods drawn and for the first time in my life I had high cholesterol. 227 overall and LDL was High. Stopped craze and it dropped back to normal. No diet change at all. Either way I hope ds and Cahill get what's coming if its true
 
In my case... there is NO addiction feeling for craze. I have been taking it from 1st batch & am still using it twice a week. If anyone would be addicted, it would be me. I even cut back to just twice a week. I feel no need or want to take it more than that. I know everyone is different when it comes to supplements but IMO... I have not felt any dependence for it or any other supplement.
 
Same here. I have bottles from the original run and I only take it 2-3 times a week, no addiction issues, bp issues, cholesterol issues, not talking to unicorns at night, not referring to myself in the third person while engaged in conversation. I do, however, cry when it rains...that one is probably Craze.
 
Patrick Arnold said:
a conspiracy minded individual might find that counterfeit thing to be quite "convenient"
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I guess my question is the drug tests I've passed while using tubs of what we consider 'OG'. Exp Date: 01/15 on the tubs. Lot # 1201378.

For instance, Instant Release Adderall is out of your system in 1-3 days. I was taking Craze nearly everyday though when I got drug-tested, even the morning of as I worked out in the morning then took my drug test a few hours after.

I've never heard of something being able to leave your system that quickly, especially if it's the analog they discovered that you posted.

My chem knowledge isn't as advanced as yours, obviously, but can you offer any 'theories' on how an analog would be able to not get popped on your typical "SAMHSA-5" test?
 
Just popped in here again...
So apparently it sounds like someone could possibly pop for meth at an employment related drug screen?
 
custom said:
Is it me, or all of the threads on BB.com being deleted?
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They are. I mean.... It was their "breakout" supplement of the year. Not that they have a financial interest or have been raided by the FDA in the past or anything. I do recall Hitler, Stalin, and Mussolini suppressing anything state opposed lol. Not being slanderous of course :)
 
rhino67jg said:
In my case... there is NO addiction feeling for craze. I have been taking it from 1st batch & am still using it twice a week. If anyone would be addicted, it would be me. I even cut back to just twice a week. I feel no need or want to take it more than that. I know everyone is different when it comes to supplements but IMO... I have not felt any dependence for it or any other supplement.
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the addictive potential of the analog is unknown, so this is not proof of anythingin fact, seeing how the mono-ethyl has reduced dopaminergic action compared to amphetamine this would be consistent somewhat
 
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