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"Shredded by Summer" iparatroop's PX Black log.

mustang0341 said:
I hear ya bro, when I started about a year and a half ago I was fat, nasty and out of shape. I will def get some before and afters up once I'm done with my up coming ( 1st) cycle.

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I look forward to seeing those. Seeing results from those who put in hard work is nice. No homo.
 
Just want to throw this out there for those of you who aren't familiar; GVT is no punk. I had to wait til this afternoon to get my workout on due to a sick kid at the house. I took my normal two PXB this morning, but I added one this afternoon to help me through GVT. It paid off. PXB+GVT=win even if I do feel like puking.
 
Im doing a modified GVT right now, 5 sets of 10 5 workouts per... Ie chest and back is 10 working sets, 5 of chest and 5 of back. I also swap out supersets too, sometimes bench and deads others incline and bent rows. Also shrugs and hammer curls, dumbbell shoulder press and dumbbell curls.

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mustang0341 said:
Im doing a modified GVT right now, 5 sets of 10 5 workouts per... Ie chest and back is 10 working sets, 5 of chest and 5 of back. I also swap out supersets too, sometimes bench and deads others incline and bent rows. Also shrugs and hammer curls, dumbbell shoulder press and dumbbell curls.

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Nice. Right now I'm following poliquin's program to the T. It makes me want to yack by the time I'm done. Good times.
 
snagencyV2.0 said:
this guys modesty is extraordinary
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Hahahaha

mustang0341 said:
Im doing a modified GVT right now, 5 sets of 10 5 workouts per... Ie chest and back is 10 working sets, 5 of chest and 5 of back. I also swap out supersets too, sometimes bench and deads others incline and bent rows. Also shrugs and hammer curls, dumbbell shoulder press and dumbbell curls.

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That just sounds rough!!
 
Yah don't have much faith in Poloquin training for bodybuilders, he is from my home town and he trains pro athletes yah but his training does not convert well to what we do. Not in my opinion ... wouldn't work for me anyway.
 
DreamWeaver said:
Yah don't have much faith in Poloquin training for bodybuilders, he is from my home town and he trains pro athletes yah but his training does not convert well to what we do. Not in my opinion ... wouldn't work for me anyway.
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What!? Wow I put on more muscle and recomp with gvt than any other program. Moreso than DC and fst-7 by far. Love it.
 
many different programs/protocols can stimulate growth, if performed correctly
options are endless..
poliquin is an interesting cat, but his ideas on certain things can be considered, uhh, far-reaching
(his 30g fish oil daily for testosterone boost comes to mind lol)..
the guy has made a signature somewhat out of training anabolically enhanced athletes, and crediting his "natural approaches" for their growth & progress..i like him, is interesting source, but again all things must remain in perspective, is all
 
Here's what it boils down to for me. I PM'ed Kleen when Snags put me on the list and I asked him for a routine that, without sounding too cliche, would help me get bigger, stronger and faster. Being that I can sustain a 6-630 mile for quite some time, I needed more the bigger and stronger part. The catch was that I was (and still am) on a quest to find, in my own words, an "enduring" strength rather than a "dynamic" strength. The best way I can describe what that means is, I don't need to be able to bench a house, but I'd like to be able to push it down the street indefinitely.
Kleen rec'd GVT and Mattikus told me about P'quin and the outline looked decent. Granted, it's a take on an old routine, blah, blah, but I think it's a good foundation for my needs. I think volume is where it's at for me right now. If I don't gain ten pounds or look like Arnold at the end, that's fine. At this point in my career, being a bodybuilder isn't necessarily feasible anyway. I'll save that til I retire. I'm shooting for a Gronkowski-ish physique. It's a long way away, but it's a goal...
 
certainly, mr. troop :)
all understood, and hi-volume has been the successful tactic of many a men

with your goals in mind:
our new product would seem to be right up your alley..check it out

Invalid Link Removed
 
snagencyV2.0 said:
certainly, mr. troop :)
all understood, and hi-volume has been the successful tactic of many a men

with your goals in mind:
our new product would seem to be right up your alley..check it out

Invalid Link Removed
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Yessir, I've been following AB and Kleen and they're talking about 1" pumps as a result. Pretty insane. Of course, the better half of my relationship has the authority on my spending, so I'll have to sneak in a purchase without her knowing...
 
snagencyV2.0 said:
many different programs/protocols can stimulate growth, if performed correctly
options are endless..
poliquin is an interesting cat, but his ideas on certain things can be considered, uhh, far-reaching
(his 30g fish oil daily for testosterone boost comes to mind lol)..
the guy has made a signature somewhat out of training anabolically enhanced athletes, and crediting his "natural approaches" for their growth & progress..i like him, is interesting source, but again all things must remain in perspective, is all
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Yah never had much respect for him and his ideas.
 
Well Poliquin is interesting the GVT did not come from him he adopted it and brought it to the US. German Volume Training has been something the Germans have done for years and with great success. Doug if you have never done GVT I would not be quick to put it by the wayside without trying regardless of if the Poliquin name was attached to it. When it comes to high volume workouts I have NEVER responded to anything better than GVT, and it is amazing for also leaning up plus what it does for joint and tendon preservation is amazing.

I think a lot of Poliquins stuff is off the cuff like Snags mentioned with the 30g fish oil or some of his other creations but when it comes to growing muscle while leaning up and increasing work capacity you will be HARD PRESSED to find a program that matches it. If I had more time available to me in the gym I would do a run of this right now.
 
MrKleen73 said:
Well Poliquin is interesting the GVT did not come from him he adopted it and brought it to the US. German Volume Training has been something the Germans have done for years and with great success. Doug if you have never done GVT I would not be quick to put it by the wayside without trying regardless of if the Poliquin name was attached to it. When it comes to high volume workouts I have NEVER responded to anything better than GVT, and it is amazing for also leaning up plus what it does for joint and tendon preservation is amazing.

I think a lot of Poliquins stuff is off the cuff like Snags mentioned with the 30g fish oil or some of his other creations but when it comes to growing muscle while leaning up and increasing work capacity you will be HARD PRESSED to find a program that matches it. If I had more time available to me in the gym I would do a run of this right now.
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I never repsond well to any kind of high volume training. I have done a lot of things like it. I think high volume training like that can be a big mistake for some people anyways. I respond well to shorter more intense trainng. I have even gone less volume lately with a lot more success. Now some of this is due to age, as you get older I think you will agree, You have to make every little thing count the older you get. Getting rid of extra volume is a real key to growth for older people. It will likely happen to all of us. Economy of volume is important so that intensity can be maintained. If I did not make this adjustment I would not have been successful. It won't work for some of the older people I train. It may work for people 40 and under better. I used to work more volume in my 30's but I am progressing just as well in my 50's with pretty low volume. I stall when volume is increased, but I simply can't handle it as my joints will just give out so I am rarely able to complete what I set out to do. I just think you may change your mind once age some more. Maybe not I don't know every fuggin thing... I do believe strongly in volume economy though.
 
It is maybe more intriging when you guys cut it down to 5 sets of 10 though provided it is only 2 to 3 exercises on a 3 day split. That may be ok for even me as I just finished somethng very similar. Mind you 4 weeks and my joints were fuggin completely finished. 4 weeks is all I could handle but I do think it was a good idea in the situation I was in as it allowed be to increase power while I was in an anabolic state allowing me ot use more weight when I went back to full body training.
 
DreamWeaver said:
I never repsond well to any kind of high volume training. I have done a lot of things like it. I think high volume training like that can be a big mistake for some people anyways. I respond well to shorter more intense trainng. I have even gone less volume lately with a lot more success. Now some of this is due to age, as you get older I think you will agree, You have to make every little thing count the older you get. Getting rid of extra volume is a real key to growth for older people. It will likely happen to all of us. Economy of volume is important so that intensity can be maintained. If I did not make this adjustment I would not have been successful. It won't work for some of the older people I train. It may work for people 40 and under better. I used to work more volume in my 30's but I am progressing just as well in my 50's with pretty low volume. I stall when volume is increased, but I simply can't handle it as my joints will just give out so I am rarely able to complete what I set out to do. I just think you may change your mind once age some more. Maybe not I don't know every fuggin thing... I do believe strongly in volume economy though.
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Under normal volume training principles I agree with you completely however not with how GVT is laid out. The only thing that makes GVT intense is the cumulative fatigue of the muscle, not the intensity IE weight... YOu never end up going heavy with GVT so it is not as taxing on the joints or tendons. To increase the volume as this program does you MUST drop intensity down around the 60% range. IE do 10 reps per set with a weight you can do for 20. Certainly when you try to keep intensity vie weight up while addin volume you are going to run into massive issues with your joints and tendons and of course while you are getting older that increases but this is laid out a different way and you can't really even go up in weight on it until you can complete all 10 sets of 10 reps. Many people don't get to that point in 1 cycle of GVT if so they may go up like 5 lbs 10 on a major lift.
 
DreamWeaver said:
It is maybe more intriging when you guys cut it down to 5 sets of 10 though provided it is only 2 to 3 exercises on a 3 day split. That may be ok for even me as I just finished somethng very similar. Mind you 4 weeks and my joints were fuggin completely finished. 4 weeks is all I could handle but I do think it was a good idea in the situation I was in as it allowed be to increase power while I was in an anabolic state allowing me ot use more weight when I went back to full body training.
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5 sets of 10 with 3 exercise is 15 sets, that is more than what is involved in GVT, it is 10 sets of 10 on ONE exercise per body part at 60% of your 1RM. You can add in 3 sets of an ancillary exercise but the premise is the 10 sets of 10 at 60% of your 1 rep max. Typically 2 body parts done per workout and in a staggered superset fashion.

It is cool for you to have done it and not like it but until it has been done trust me it is an entirely different animal than you think. Sets 1-5 typically not hard at all, 6-7 you tend to fail to get 10 reps 8-9 sometimes you will get back up to 10 or increase reps then 10 you probably aint gonna get 10 if you do you go up.
 
So far, all I have to add is that the recommendation is that the weight be between 40-60% 1RM. My sorry ass is gearing more toward the 40% range. Haha.
 
MrKleen73 said:
5 sets of 10 with 3 exercise is 15 sets, that is more than what is involved in GVT, it is 10 sets of 10 on ONE exercise per body part at 60% of your 1RM. You can add in 3 sets of an ancillary exercise but the premise is the 10 sets of 10 at 60% of your 1 rep max. Typically 2 body parts done per workout and in a staggered superset fashion.

It is cool for you to have done it and not like it but until it has been done trust me it is an entirely different animal than you think. Sets 1-5 typically not hard at all, 6-7 you tend to fail to get 10 reps 8-9 sometimes you will get back up to 10 or increase reps then 10 you probably aint gonna get 10 if you do you go up.
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so you are doing 20 total sets if you are doing 2 body parts 60% maybe it's not as bad is some of the ones I use to do when I think about it. I would still rather less sets. When I do 3 execises that would be like an arm and shoulder day. Anything else would be 2 exercises. I used to to this for a 2 day split and do 3 or 4 exercises but I think I would be dead if I did that now.
 
DreamWeaver said:
so you are doing 20 total sets if you are doing 2 body parts 60% maybe it's not as bad is some of the ones I use to do when I think about it. I would still rather less sets. When I do 3 execises that would be like an arm and shoulder day. Anything else would be 2 exercises. I used to to this for a 2 day split and do 3 or 4 exercises but I think I would be dead if I did that now.
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I did 26 sets yesterday (chest and back)
10x10 decline DBs palms facing each other
10x10 pulldowns palms facing me (supposed to be chin-ups but I'm not at a point where I can do 100 chins)
3x12 incline flyes
3x12 1 arm DB bent-over rows
In and out of the gym in less than 45 minutes and I'm sore as hell today.
It's quick and feels efficient. I like it so far. We'll see what a few weeks of it does for me.
 
DreamWeaver said:
so you are doing 20 total sets if you are doing 2 body parts 60% maybe it's not as bad is some of the ones I use to do when I think about it. I would still rather less sets. When I do 3 execises that would be like an arm and shoulder day. Anything else would be 2 exercises. I used to to this for a 2 day split and do 3 or 4 exercises but I think I would be dead if I did that now.
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Yeah it is about as much volume as you do on the HST if you consider your warm ups as sets since the weight is so light with GVT there is no warm up set the weights just feel heaver with every set. It is interesting for certain. Definitely not for the person who does not want to work hard though. It will put you through the paces.
 
MrKleen73 said:
Yeah it is about as much volume as you do on the HST if you consider your warm ups as sets since the weight is so light with GVT there is no warm up set the weights just feel heaver with every set. It is interesting for certain. Definitely not for the person who does not want to work hard though. It will put you through the paces.
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It feels like warm up sets for the first 3. After that, not so much.
 
iparatroop said:
I did 26 sets yesterday (chest and back)
10x10 decline DBs palms facing each other
10x10 pulldowns palms facing me (supposed to be chin-ups but I'm not at a point where I can do 100 chins)
3x12 incline flyes
3x12 1 arm DB rows
In and out of the gym in less than 45 minutes and I'm sore as hell today.
It's quick and feels efficient. I like it so far. We'll see what a few weeks of it does for me.
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I thought GVT was all compound lifting ... 26 is a lot but given they were isolated. Here's how I like to to that type of training I would intensify with giant sets. I call it muscle satruation and it's very good for precontest training. I would take 3 exercises for chest all isolated so just with the db's I would go a drop for all these so I set is actually 6 sets X the 3 working sets = 18 sets just for chest but done more intensely. It's isolated to that is a horse of a different color. I will do my back with something very simliar so another 18 sets = 36 sets and I will throw in weighted lat shrugs as a 4th exercise so add 3 more sets for a total of 39 and ithis needs to be down in aobut 45 minutes. Oh yah you can hammer with isolation. It just about kills you the first time out. Even though it works out to a fair amount of volume it's the intensity that makes it good.
 
Now we may be getting close to agreeing I just saw GVT and remembered the 10 X 10 of compound exercises.
 
I'm learning a lot of new stuff coming back to AM. I'm glad I'm logging, as a lot of the stuff I'm learning is contained in the log I'm keeping, and the ones I'm subscribed to. I have a long way to go to get where I want to be, and a lot of ways to get there. This is good.
 
iparatroop said:
I'm learning a lot of new stuff coming back to AM. I'm glad I'm logging, as a lot of the stuff I'm learning is contained in the log I'm keeping, and the ones I'm subscribed to. I have a long way to go to get where I want to be, and a lot of ways to get there. This is good.
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Plenty of ways to skin a Cat I guess... always lots to learn on this board and we have an expert team. I can be old and stubborn sometimes though....well ... a lot of times. It's just that as I have gotten older the less is more policy has been golden for me. I often wonder if I hadn't been doing too much volume all along. There is volume and there is volume on isolaton which is much less taxing for the body than volume on compound exercises which is really more of what I against, for my situation anyway.
 
Yeah, your muscle saturation workout is fun too.
 
supersets..double-doubles..giant sets..and always speed, baby, speed -- now we are getting into my own preferences
is why i think i enjoy contest prep so damn much - the training is right up my alley
 
MrKleen73 said:
Yeah, your muscle saturation workout is fun too.
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I love warrior too and it offers a good contrast to prepare for saturation workouts.

snagencyV2.0 said:
supersets..double-doubles..giant sets..and always speed, baby, speed -- now we are getting into my own preferences
is why i think i enjoy contest prep so damn much - the training is right up my alley
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Yah it's in my wheelhouse as well.
 
Poliquin's view on fish oil never made sense to me personally, and I can think of a couple folks that even did logs on it here in AM (EasyJEL) that had nothing to show for it besides an excellent cholesterol profile.

GVT is just a simple program that produces results. Most programs will when truly understood. Would I follow Poliquin's protocols while heavily dieting? Hell no. It took me a few tries to get it right, as does any program for me. The ten sets of ten is certainly based on compound exercises, is meant to tax the cns, conditioning, and willpower of anyone following the program. Too much self modification and it is not GVT, it is something else. Not saying self modification isn't productive, but I as a trainer have yet to see this program not produce phenomenal results when executed correctly. It is designed to push yourself past failure, in more ways than simply strength. I encourage any skeptic to follow the program for a minimum of three weeks, not skimping on any detail, and see where it takes them.
 
mattikus said:
Poliquin's view on fish oil never made sense to me personally, and I can think of a couple folks that even did logs on it here in AM (EasyJEL) that had nothing to show for it besides an excellent cholesterol profile.

GVT is just a simple program that produces results. Most programs will when truly understood. Would I follow Poliquin's protocols while heavily dieting? Hell no. It took me a few tries to get it right, as does any program for me. The ten sets of ten is certainly based on compound exercises, is meant to tax the cns, conditioning, and willpower of anyone following the program. Too much self modification and it is not GVT, it is something else. Not saying self modification isn't productive, but I as a trainer have yet to see this program not produce phenomenal results when executed correctly. It is designed to push yourself past failure, in more ways than simply strength. I encourage any skeptic to follow the program for a minimum of three weeks, not skimping on any detail, and see where it takes them.
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We developed a few hybrids based the the same principles and I know what the premise is, I still don't buy into though. I have had much more success avoiding overwork than I have using these types of protocols, again could be an age thing. Have to do what works for me.
 
mattikus said:
Poliquin's view on fish oil never made sense to me personally, and I can think of a couple folks that even did logs on it here in AM (EasyJEL) that had nothing to show for it besides an excellent cholesterol profile..
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i didn't run a log, but i too experimented with protocol
felt decent, no deleterious effects - but increased test?
uh, simply no
 
So, yesterday wasn't such a great day. After lunch things went downhill. By 430pm I felt like i had been hit by a train. Dry heaving isn't fun. I went home and was asleep by 545. I woke up a few times during the night sweating and generally feeling like ass. This morning isn't much better. I took my PXB and I've got some energy but overall I still feel like crap, physically. Here's the bonus...I can't eat. My stomach feels like there's a bunch of little people in it trying to punch their way out. PXB is keeping my appetite down, so that helps a lot. Being sick is stupid, good thing it only happens to me once every couple of years. I didn't have any problems sleeping last night, for 14 hours.
Needless to say, no gym today. Oh well.
Tomorrow morning will be my first weigh-in since starting PXB and I may just post some pics. Holler.
 
Sucks you are not feeling good but it really says something about how smooth PX Black is considering you can still take it on an empty stomach.
 
iparatroop said:
So, yesterday wasn't such a great day. After lunch things went downhill. By 430pm I felt like i had been hit by a train. Dry heaving isn't fun. I went home and was asleep by 545. I woke up a few times during the night sweating and generally feeling like ass. This morning isn't much better. I took my PXB and I've got some energy but overall I still feel like crap, physically. Here's the bonus...I can't eat. My stomach feels like there's a bunch of little people in it trying to punch their way out. PXB is keeping my appetite down, so that helps a lot. Being sick is stupid, good thing it only happens to me once every couple of years. I didn't have any problems sleeping last night, for 14 hours.
Needless to say, no gym today. Oh well.
Tomorrow morning will be my first weigh-in since starting PXB and I may just post some pics. Holler.
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Hah I read that and reached for 3 Echinacea...
 
MrKleen73 said:
Sucks you are not feeling good but it really says something about how smooth PX Black is considering you can still take it on an empty stomach.
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I take it on an empty stomach every morning. I have had no adverse effects. I find that it hits a little faster, but you're right, it's still smooth.
 
So, feeling a bit better. PXB is great. I don't know how bad I'd feel today without it.
On another note, I haven't run any cycles for a long time (it shows in my physique). Tomorrow I'm going down and getting bloodwork done to see where all of my levels are. Just out of curiosity really, but in a way because I haven't felt awesome for a while. Is it bad to hope for the worst, as far as test levels go? I'm 34 and don't feel 18 anymore, and I had an easy time putting on fat over the past couple of years.
So I'll miss my morning dose of PXB tomorrow, but I'll take it right after my blood is drawn.
 
iparatroop said:
So, feeling a bit better. PXB is great. I don't know how bad I'd feel today without it.
On another note, I haven't run any cycles for a long time (it shows in my physique). Tomorrow I'm going down and getting bloodwork done to see where all of my levels are. Just out of curiosity really, but in a way because I haven't felt awesome for a while. Is it bad to hope for the worst, as far as test levels go? I'm 34 and don't feel 18 anymore, and I had an easy time putting on fat over the past couple of years.
So I'll miss my morning dose of PXB tomorrow, but I'll take it right after my blood is drawn.
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Glad to hear you are feeling better.

Keep us updated on how the blood work pans out.
 
Still taking PX while sick....that is hardcore dedication.

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mustang0341 said:
Still taking PX while sick....that is hardcore dedication.

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Well, I used some brologic and said, "if this stuff makes me feel great on days when I feel decent, I'm sure it will make me feel decent on a day when I feel like shlt". Brologic worked and I was able to get through the funk. I consumed about 450 calories total yesterday, and only because I forced myself to eat.
Looking back through my logs over the past couple of weeks since being on PXB, I'm averaging around 1500 cals and I don't feel like I'm lacking energy. There has been a couple of days where I got up to 2200 cals consumed but when subtracting exercise, still somewhere around 1800 I'd guess.
Today was supposed to be my first weigh-in since starting. I'll try to get down to my undies and give the doc a little show before getting labs today so I can get an accurate weight reading.
 
3clipseGT said:
Glad to hear you are feeling better.

Keep us updated on how the blood work pans out.
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Thank you sir. I think I just had a 24 hour bug or something. I'll post results of my bloodwork if there's anything crazy going on.

I want to point out that me getting bloods drawn has nothing to do with PXB. In the beginning of January I had a physical exam. My cholesterol came back on the high end of normal. Two years prior, my cholesterol was on the very low end of normal. Today I will have cholesterol, test, estrogen and everything else screened so I can get a good idea of what's going on inside of me. Looking back at the approximately two years I let myself slide, I realize that I didn't feel quite "normal", as in I didn't have the "drive" that I had when I was younger. These are my reasons for getting labs.
 
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