DS Craze Lawsuit and FDA Action

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Iron_Will said:
Im interested in everyones feeling about the product so far. I have decided that i am going to lay off it for a while. Probably until next year. I seem to realize that my heart rate is going way to high when i take it (This is both TMG and Creatine tubs). So im laying off it for a while, and ill try it again, but i honestly dont love it like i use to. My friend even said his brother who previously used cocaine went to the gym with him and said he looked like he took cocaine. If you dont know what im talking about, refer to the good man in video below. you can clearly see theres some speed in this ****. im just gonna lay off it for now. any updates and is everyone still using? lol

IN THE VIDEO BELOW, go to 2:50 and you see crack in his eyes
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LOL

thats marc lobliner. he always looks high on crack
 
This. Haven't visited this thread for a while but my latest pwo stack of maximise intense n hemavol is running out and so the search for a new pwo beings. Although i enjoyed hemavol&intense, my memories of the original craze are extremely positive... especially that euphoric feeling you got from it. Reading through the latest "developments" to do with the whole craze issue, i think i'm going to have to obtain an original version and also order myself a newer version so i can try them both out! Original versions don't seem to be easy to come across unless offered by someone who bought their tub at the start of 2012. Not sure how a supp shop would respond if you asked only for a specific lot number of craze?!lol

Ah well, here's hoping the newer tubs will still provide the same affects that the original did for me!.. cos that's likely.. :/
 
Just to fill in, had 6/15 exp grape tub that sucked, but this 5/15 lemonade seems to be good... Wonder if it's just variable quality raws?
 
i heard that all these batches that dont work are being called counterfeit batches now. or something

wussup with that?
 
I'm more worried about health ramifications for using amphetamine analogs pre workout. Your heart rate and blood pressure have massive spikes during a workout could you imagine what an amphetamine does to amplify this? No way its good for ones heart. My hearts already enlarged from intense weight training ( and I'm sure supplementation has added to this).
 
BigMikeC said:
I'm more worried about health ramifications for using amphetamine analogs pre workout. Your heart rate and blood pressure have massive spikes during a workout could you imagine what an amphetamine does to amplify this? No way its good for ones heart. My hearts already enlarged from intense weight training ( and I'm sure supplementation has added to this).
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Considering none of the PEAs in Craze are alpha-substituted, we are not using amphetamine analogs.

Your heart is enlarged from intense weight training?
 
mr.cooper69 said:
Considering none of the PEAs in Craze are alpha-substituted, we are not using amphetamine analogs.

Your heart is enlarged from intense weight training?
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According to the cardiologist. He explained it similar to the reason Lance Armstrong's heart is double the size of a normal mans heart. The Heart is a muscle and adapts. In my case, In order for my body to handle large workloads it has adapted by growing larger. If I had a normal, non trained heart it would pop from the large spike in blood pressure caused by heavy weight training. The walls in my heart have grown thicker to be able to handle the pressure. This is my understanding from what was explained to me by my cardiologist. My heart is totally healthy. Pulse, heart rate, BP, etc.
 
BigMikeC said:
According to the cardiologist. He explained it similar to the reason Lance Armstrong's heart is double the size of a normal mans heart. The Heart is a muscle and adapts. In my case, In order for my body to handle large workloads it has adapted by growing larger. If I had a normal, non trained heart it would pop from the large spike in blood pressure caused by heavy weight training. The walls in my heart have grown thicker to be able to handle the pressure. This is my understanding from what was explained to me by my cardiologist. My heart is totally healthy. Pulse, heart rate, BP, etc.
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Ventricular thickening usually occurs in endurance athletes or "sprinters" who challenge their VO2 max on a daily basis for years.

You've never used drugs? Not making an assumption, just trying to get a better picture, because weightlifting alone should not cause that kind of cardiac enlargement.
 
BigMikeC said:
According to the cardiologist. He explained it similar to the reason Lance Armstrong's heart is double the size of a normal mans heart. The Heart is a muscle and adapts. In my case, In order for my body to handle large workloads it has adapted by growing larger. If I had a normal, non trained heart it would pop from the large spike in blood pressure caused by heavy weight training. The walls in my heart have grown thicker to be able to handle the pressure. This is my understanding from what was explained to me by my cardiologist. My heart is totally healthy. Pulse, heart rate, BP, etc.
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So anecdotally speaking, no anabolics in your history? Just pure weight training and beef?
 
DAdams91982 said:
So anecdotally speaking, no anabolics in your history? Just pure weight training and beef?
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That's what I was referring to when I said "supplements" and intense weight training in my original post.Should have said anabolics rather than implying. But yes my doctor knows what I use and run through out the year. Personally i beleive this attributes some. That being said how much does it attribute is the question. Ive only been cycling since I was 21 and am now currently 24 but have been an athlete since I was a kid. The doctors, including my cardiologist when talking about "anabolics" never imply that they've lead to the thickening of my heart walls. Their concerns are usually cholesterol and liver/kidney related issues which all of those are healthy and normal. I would imagine that if more bodybuilders had their hearts looked at they would fine it more common amongst BB's and competitive strength athletes to have larger hearts. Just basing that assumption off my experience and the research I've done.
 
mw1 said:
That was put up by Reggie from Predator Nutr? Knowing him he is just trying to stear customers to his site by creating fear of counterfeits
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I can't post links but head on over to the DS site and check the Blog. Their on to it..

On the DS website they have put together a list of retailers suspected of selling counterfeit goods.

Seems a large majority of any counterfeit has only been tracked to the UK thus far...
 
mw1 said:
That was put up by Reggie from Predator Nutr? Knowing him he is just trying to stear customers to his site by creating fear of counterfeits
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Oh I had no idea. I just googled it. I don't even know who Reggie is lol.
 
sup with the counterfeit crazes? Saw a post a few days on FB from DS regarding this. Anyone have any info?
 
tilldeath said:
sup with the counterfeit crazes? Saw a post a few days on FB from DS regarding this. Anyone have any info?
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People were making fake Craze and selling it at a discounted price. We don't know what the fake contains, but it is not Craze and most likely just KoolAid or something, but I'm not sure.

All Craze, from Driven Sports, whether its expiration date is 5/15 or 6/15 or whatever, is the SAME formula with the SAME ingredients.
 
Does anyone know if a tub of Grape Craze with an expiration date of 4/15 (not sure about lot number) would be considered a "good" tub? Or are the 4/15 tubs the first ones that supposedly weren't as effective?
 
SpicedCider said:
Does anyone know if a tub of Grape Craze with an expiration date of 4/15 (not sure about lot number) would be considered a "good" tub? Or are the 4/15 tubs the first ones that supposedly weren't as effective?
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i havent paid much attention to the craze stuff lately but bottom line is there is good craze....bad craze....counterfeit craze...just craze all around?
 
Patrick Arnold said:
i havent paid much attention to the craze stuff lately but bottom line is there is good craze....bad craze....counterfeit craze...just craze all around?
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LOL, that's what it sounds like. All I know is that the tub of Berry Lemonade Craze that I bought back in September is COMPLETELY worthless... they say that some people might be non-responders, but how can someone actually be a non-responder to those compounds?
 
SpicedCider said:
LOL, that's what it sounds like. All I know is that the tub of Berry Lemonade Craze that I bought back in September is COMPLETELY worthless... they say that some people might be non-responders, but how can someone actually be a non-responder to those compounds?
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Maybe you are just a non-believer

you have to BELIEVE

Maybe you believe in grape
 
Patrick Arnold said:
Maybe you are just a non-believer

you have to BELIEVE

Maybe you believe in grape
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Heck if I know, but I don't see how some people can take 2 scoops and have to lay on the floor because they feel like they're about to have a heart attack, while I can take that many scoops and not even have elevated BP.
 
SpicedCider said:
Heck if I know, but I don't see how some people can take 2 scoops and have to lay on the floor because they feel like they're about to have a heart attack, while I can take that many scoops and not even have elevated BP.
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ur goal is to have a heart attack?
 
SpicedCider said:
Nah -- I just don't see how it's so effective (nearly dangerously so) for other people but not for me. And I hardly ever take any other stims/PWOs. I just wanted to experience the euphoria... the glory... WHY NOT MEEEEEEEEEEEEEEE
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go get some bath salts
 
I have been using 2 scoops of craze & 2 scoops of hemavol twice a week with no elevated heart rate or any problems. Love the combo.
 
This was on the DS web page


"Driven Sports has said repeatedly since this baseless suit was started, that Craze® does not, has not, and never will contain amphetamines, nor any other banned or controlled substance. The lawsuit dismissal is a great vindication for the Craze® product and the Driven Sports brand that has fought tirelessly to clear it's name following this baseless accusation by California's Newport Trial Group and plaintiff Aaron Karmann. The process has been dragged out for almost an entire year, based on their false belief that Craze® contains amphetamines.

Driven Sports has dozens of 3rd party independent lab reports documenting every single batch of Craze® ever manufactured. All reports clearly show that there are no amphetamines, nor any other banned or controlled substances in Craze®. Driven Sports demanded to see the lab report that the Newport Trial Group used as the basis for their lawsuit. The eventual lab report submitted by Newport in fact confirmed that Craze® did not contain amphetamines, nor any other banned or controlled substances. This supports Driven Sports' position that the lawsuit was always without merit.

Craze® is a product backed by 4 double blind placebo controlled human safety and efficacy studies, with a fifth study in process. Driven Sports is eager to publish the results of these studies in the very near future. Additionally, the Craze® formula was reviewed by our on-staff board-certified endocrinologist prior to release, and also by an independent toxicologist who reviewed all of the available literature on the ingredients for the product."
 
I thought it was a PEA or some substance that was not technically classified as an amphetamine that was the issue or questionable. The old stuff was intense for sure. I still have a few servings in old tub.

redms said:
This was on the DS web page


"Driven Sports has said repeatedly since this baseless suit was started, that Craze® does not, has not, and never will contain amphetamines, nor any other banned or controlled substance. The lawsuit dismissal is a great vindication for the Craze® product and the Driven Sports brand that has fought tirelessly to clear it's name following this baseless accusation by California's Newport Trial Group and plaintiff Aaron Karmann. The process has been dragged out for almost an entire year, based on their false belief that Craze® contains amphetamines.

Driven Sports has dozens of 3rd party independent lab reports documenting every single batch of Craze® ever manufactured. All reports clearly show that there are no amphetamines, nor any other banned or controlled substances in Craze®. Driven Sports demanded to see the lab report that the Newport Trial Group used as the basis for their lawsuit. The eventual lab report submitted by Newport in fact confirmed that Craze® did not contain amphetamines, nor any other banned or controlled substances. This supports Driven Sports' position that the lawsuit was always without merit.

Craze® is a product backed by 4 double blind placebo controlled human safety and efficacy studies, with a fifth study in process. Driven Sports is eager to publish the results of these studies in the very near future. Additionally, the Craze® formula was reviewed by our on-staff board-certified endocrinologist prior to release, and also by an independent toxicologist who reviewed all of the available literature on the ingredients for the product."
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996ttelise said:
I thought it was a PEA or some substance that was not technically classified as an amphetamine that was the issue or questionable. The old stuff was intense for sure. I still have a few servings in old tub.
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I still believe that there were two different versions i.e. new and old versions. I had the 2 opened and they looked like different powders. Anyway I guess it's all finished.
 
redms said:
This was on the DS web page


"Driven Sports has said repeatedly since this baseless suit was started, that Craze® does not, has not, and never will contain amphetamines, nor any other banned or controlled substance. The lawsuit dismissal is a great vindication for the Craze® product and the Driven Sports brand that has fought tirelessly to clear it's name following this baseless accusation by California's Newport Trial Group and plaintiff Aaron Karmann. The process has been dragged out for almost an entire year, based on their false belief that Craze® contains amphetamines.

Driven Sports has dozens of 3rd party independent lab reports documenting every single batch of Craze® ever manufactured. All reports clearly show that there are no amphetamines, nor any other banned or controlled substances in Craze®. Driven Sports demanded to see the lab report that the Newport Trial Group used as the basis for their lawsuit. The eventual lab report submitted by Newport in fact confirmed that Craze® did not contain amphetamines, nor any other banned or controlled substances. This supports Driven Sports' position that the lawsuit was always without merit.

Craze® is a product backed by 4 double blind placebo controlled human safety and efficacy studies, with a fifth study in process. Driven Sports is eager to publish the results of these studies in the very near future. Additionally, the Craze® formula was reviewed by our on-staff board-certified endocrinologist prior to release, and also by an independent toxicologist who reviewed all of the available literature on the ingredients for the product."
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I knew this was nothing from the get go. It's clear why all this came about in the first place. I have the newer versions of the grape and I can't differentiate between it and the supposedly older (better) versions.
 
So then the mystery will never be solved? Because I took both and I can tell you there was definately a change from when it first came out to the more recent stuff. Night and day.
 
Ceredumbellum said:
So then the mystery will never be solved? Because I took both and I can tell you there was definately a change from when it first came out to the more recent stuff. Night and day.
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Preach it! Same boat 100%
 
Ceredumbellum said:
So then the mystery will never be solved? Because I took both and I can tell you there was definately a change from when it first came out to the more recent stuff. Night and day.
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Obviously the original grape flavoring interacted with the various inert PEA analogues and bam, it becomes an insane stim when you stir it up in water.

They must have tweaked the grape flavor at some point and the raspberry lemonade never caused the reaction...this is why craze is now different than it once was.

/case closed
 
Ceredumbellum said:
So then the mystery will never be solved? Because I took both and I can tell you there was definately a change from when it first came out to the more recent stuff. Night and day.
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I know the reps always say there was no change but that is a bunch of malarkey for anyone who tried the og grape. 100% agree with ceredumbellum.
 
Here is to hoping my unopened tub is the OG version! I loved my first two tubs....more for the focus aspect and less for the "energy"
 
Daycrawler said:
So you still do believe that there's a difference between what people refer to as "og" and the tubs on the market today?
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Believe is a strong word. I do think the vast amount of people reporting dramatic interbatch variability and there adamancy is compelling
 
Patrick Arnold said:
Believe is a strong word. I do think the vast amount of people reporting dramatic interbatch variability and there adamancy is compelling
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And even though he has to watch what he says or how he words it because of DS' lawyers, I think P.A. knows exactly what went on. It's unfortunate a company can (allegedly) do something shady and hide behind their lawyers when they get called out on it. I think the best tale of the many spun during this whole mess was the "It was contaminated because there were counterfits" one. That gave me a good chuckle while making me want to pull my hair out at the same time.
 
I've read a bunch of the reviews on the newer flavors and it seems that very few users who've tried both the original grape and the new stuff feel that they are the same. When the original news of lawsuit hit I was afraid it would be pulled off the shelves without much notice. I took advantage of a coincidental sale on another online site and picked up a case of the stuff. I've still got quite a bit left. I'm curious to pick up a tub of one of the new flavors to compare now.
 
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