Dimethazine, stomach acids and hydrolyzation of the nitrogen bond

jbryand101b

jbryand101b

Banned
17beta-hydroxy 2alpha,17alpha-dimethyl 5alpha-androstan 3-one azine

Invalid Link Removed

from how I understand it, the stomach acids hydrolyze the nitrogen bond, leaving a different steroid all together.

my question is, is the compound broken in half, leaving one methyl drostanolone molecule, and one hydrolyzed methyl drostanolone molecule? or is the nitrogen bond attached to both sides, leaving hydrolyzed methyl drostanolone for both molecules?

cause in that picture, i see to N's, one on each side.
 
stomach acid is not sufficient to hydrolyze that bond. its likely that it is enzymatically hydrolyzed in the body

one hydrolysis will yield one superdrol molecule and one superdrol-3-hydrazone. the superdrol-3-hydrazone will then hydrolyze to yield one superdrol molecule and one hydrazine molecule
 
Huh, so it ultimately will become superdrol, would this effect how the compound acts and explain why the two are do different in terms of effects?

I understand the vida data is from im administration, but dimeth seems to be much drier than sd, of is this possibly placebo?
 
jbryand101b said:
Huh, so it ultimately will become superdrol, would this effect how the compound acts and explain why the two are do different in terms of effects?

I understand the vida data is from im administration, but dimeth seems to be much drier than sd, of is this possibly placebo?
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it is possible that the hydrolysis is slow and that a decent portion of it gets thru liver first pass unhydrolyzed. If so, then you would see less liver effects (stimulation of hepatic IGF-1 production, hepatotoxicity) compared to superdrol
 
jbryand101b said:
17beta-hydroxy 2alpha,17alpha-dimethyl 5alpha-androstan 3-one azine

Invalid Link Removed

from how I understand it, the stomach acids hydrolyze the nitrogen bond, leaving a different steroid all together.

my question is, is the compound broken in half, leaving one methyl drostanolone molecule, and one hydrolyzed methyl drostanolone molecule? or is the nitrogen bond attached to both sides, leaving hydrolyzed methyl drostanolone for both molecules?

cause in that picture, i see to N's, one on each side.
Click to expand...

I actually had a conversation on dimethazine vs superdrol not too long ago with a friend of mine and this is what I believe occus with dimethazine. In vivo the azine bond should be cleaved which results in two molecules that are very similar to superdrol, but not quite exactly superdrol. The nitrogens then should stay paired with their halves of the original molecule, which would alter the electron cloud of the A-ring when compared to Superdrol.

Now what is the effect of the azine remnant on A:A ratios? Not entirely sure, but this alteration is in a location that can significantly impact AR activity and A:A behavior.

Per Vida:

substitution of the 3-ketone function by methylene or nitrogen derivatives is permitted". "Substitution of nitrogen for the carbon-3 ketone...lengthens the bond distances but more important, alters the bond angles considerably. Disubstitution in the 2- and 3- postitions with simultaneous introduction of delta2-unsaturation will alter bond lengths and angles even further...This change may bring about a very favorable change in the anabolic-androgenic ratio."
Click to expand...

From this I would guess dymethazine has an A:A ratio greater than superdrol. Dymethazine is in Vida (compound D-5) as well is superdrol (compound D-45) but the data and theory behind it doesnt seem to be too clear/straight forward as one would hope. Vida assigns dymethazine an A:A of 210:97 when compared to methyl test. The route of administration is typically listed as oral when methyl test is the standard, but it is absent here; while superdrol is given an A:A of 400:20 vs methyl test, and IS listed as oral

From my personal experience with both compounds, dimethazine came with a lot less sides and I experienced more strength gains where as with superdrol there were more sides but also more overall weight gained. For this reason I view the them as two completely different compounds. When the azine bond breaks the 2 molecules left over certainly dont act like 2 superdrols (for me at least) What I believe is that as a result of that nitrogon bond, it causes these two resulting molecules in dimethazine to act more androgenic and less anabolic than superdrol. This would at least explain why dimethazine was better for strength for me.
 
JudoJosh said:
I actually had a conversation on dimethazine vs superdrol not too long ago with a friend of mine and this is what I believe occus with dimethazine. In vivo the azine bond should be cleaved which results in two molecules that are very similar to superdrol, but not quite exactly superdrol. The nitrogens then should stay paired with their halves of the original molecule, which would alter the electron cloud of the A-ring when compared to Superdrol.

Now what is the effect of the azine remnant on A:A ratios? Not entirely sure, but this alteration is in a location that can significantly impact AR activity and A:A behavior.

Per Vida:



From this I would guess dymethazine has an A:A ratio greater than superdrol. Dymethazine is in Vida (compound D-5) as well is superdrol (compound D-45) but the data and theory behind it doesnt seem to be too clear/straight forward as one would hope. Vida assigns dymethazine an A:A of 210:97 when compared to methyl test. The route of administration is typically listed as oral when methyl test is the standard, but it is absent here; while superdrol is given an A:A of 400:20 vs methyl test, and IS listed as oral

From my personal experience with both compounds, dimethazine came with a lot less sides and I experienced more strength gains where as with superdrol there were more sides but also more overall weight gained. For this reason I view the them as two completely different compounds. When the azine bond breaks the 2 molecules left over certainly dont act like 2 superdrols (for me at least) What I believe is that as a result of that nitrogon bond, it causes these two resulting molecules in dimethazine to act more androgenic and less anabolic than superdrol. This would at least explain why dimethazine was better for strength for me.
Click to expand...



i explained what happens with dimethazine in post2. i am a chemist who works with ketone derivatives such as these often, i know how they are formed and cleaved. your friends theory is flat out wrong, and so therefore any conclusions you make that is predicated on that theory is faulty

with that said, it is possible that the superdrol-3-hydrazone sticks around for a while before it is hydrolyzed and has some intrinsic activity. some may even be excreted unmetabolized, i dunno
 
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