madds87
Well-known member
Its amazing how the religion is spreading, How blind humanity can be. That they dont see how abussive and evil islamic tradition is. What the quaran preaches and teaches, does not sound like a just and righteous God.
Christian Friends - End Time Prophecies?
- Thread starter Whacked
- Start date
Its amazing how the religion is spreading, How blind humanity can be. That they dont see how abussive and evil islamic tradition is. What the quaran preaches and teaches, does not sound like a just and righteous God.
madds87
Well-known member
I have read your book, and i did not find any of these things that you speak of. If there is another book that speaks of this please tell me.
Even if there are extremists on both sides i dont see any extreme christians running around and blowing themselves up.....
Its not that we are trying to offend any of the islams. Im sure and know that there are some caring muslims. I grew up with a friend that was muslim. Its more of a concern than anything, and i hope you understand why we are worried.
Whacked
Well-known member
Jesus was sinless, brutally crucified and died on a cross for our sins and rose from the dead.
Tell me: What did Muhammad do?
Jews deny Jesus is the son of God.
I think your statements are patenty false as well and research is a 2-way street.
I apologize for offending you if I did. I DO understand that Islam is for the most part a religion of peace save the looney Radicals. That said, so is Budhism and Taoism amongst many other religions. At the end of the day, all non-Christians will not enter the kingdom of Heaven as works mean nothing.
Tell me: What did Muhammad do?
Jews deny Jesus is the son of God.
I think your statements are patenty false as well and research is a 2-way street.
I apologize for offending you if I did. I DO understand that Islam is for the most part a religion of peace save the looney Radicals. That said, so is Budhism and Taoism amongst many other religions. At the end of the day, all non-Christians will not enter the kingdom of Heaven as works mean nothing.
madds87
Well-known member
Well two things to this statement sir. I do listen to all news. Fox news i like more because it supports more of my thoughts and i can relate too. Now not a single news cast is a 100% correct. Just like you said do your research, and i have buddy. Still am. If you have the information of this 'peaceful lord' I would love to read some of this. If you would please send me a PM. Other religions do fascinate me.
All news you take with a grain of sand.....
Whacked
Well-known member
World census statistics.
The fasting growing religion in the world is Islam.
Invalid Link Removed
The fasting growing religion in the world is Islam.
Invalid Link Removed
Whacked
Well-known member
There are lunatics on BOTH sides
But for every 1 "Oklahoma bombing maniac", there are a 1,000 suicide bombings
But for every 1 "Oklahoma bombing maniac", there are a 1,000 suicide bombings
Whacked
Well-known member
carpee
Well-known member
Fast90 said:
I specifically said I am not trying to offend nor am I trying to be ignorant.
However you have Muslim leaders on Television specifically saying they must wipe the "zionist regime" off the face of the earth. You have burning of American and Israeli flags. The list goes on.
Nowhere did we say Christians, Jews, or any other group were not capable of hatred or murder. But on a larger level how many Christian or jewish groups are known for claiming that they will wipe a body of people off the face of the earth?
I'm sorry but I see more offense coming from a group of Muslims than I do from christians or Jews.
Hypocrisy win goes to christians though. At least in america. Of that I confess I am equally as guilty.
...And I do not watch any American news network. I don't want to wade thru reports of the kardashians or Justin bieber for a 30 second segment with no information on what's going on in the middle east
NuclearLaunch
Active member
Whacked said:There are lunatics on BOTH sides
But for every 1 "Oklahoma bombing maniac", there are a 1,000 suicide bombings
You kill one person you kill 20, either way you're wrong... There are extremist on both sides. Israel and the rest of the middle east are more or less at war and have been for quite some time, thats not gonna change. So to say they are extremist and they only care about killing is wrong. US is at war also, that doesn't make us extremist does it?
AE14
Board Sponsor
Do you have a specific codex because there are quite a few
What about the mayan's spiritual beliefs? Not too extreme for you?
Conversion by the sword does not work! Agreed! So the spaniards came in and basically forced the mayan's to become christian. Well what is the end result. You have roman catholic mayan's. LOL!
Nero was definetely a evil man but I think anyone that has the mark of the anti-christ would have to be from Jesus day forward. And I say this because of the bibles definition. The Jewish people that rejected him would definetely be anti-christs. Nero most definetely. The roman Empire really marked the birth of all that is evil in religion.
As a side note When constantine came to power "Arianism, a heresy which challenged the church's view of God (the father) and Jesus (the son), was creating a serious divide in the church. Constantine called the famous Council of Nicaea which decided the definition of the Christian deity as the Holy Trinity, God the father, God the son and God the Holy Spirit. Had Christianity previously been unclear about its message then the Council of Nicaea (together with a later council at Constantinople in 381 AD) created a clearly defined core belief. However, the nature of its creation - a council - and the diplomatically sensitive way in defining the formula, to many suggests the creed of the Holy Trinity to be rather a political construct between theologians and politicians rather than anything achieved by divine inspiration."
So Constantine and his council MADE up the doctrine of the trinity. IT WAS MAN MADE. This tradition however still lingers today and is the core of many christian beliefs but it is however NOT christian. The early christians did not believe in a trione God.
I agree with you. No ONE figure has been seen or will show up. I can't find scriptural support of that.
See Flaw, this is why I enjoy our conversations. You approach things rationally, and I appreciate that
Bringing up Constantine is an interesting one. Much of modern christianity is a product of Constantine (Nicea, Council of Hippo). To be honest, and I am sure you already know this, Constantine was not a true Christian, he only converted on his death bed. He used the rising popularity of Christianity to unify a fledgling empire.
Just so I am clear, Nero was from Jesus time. He reigned from CE 54-68 (roughly). His terror, and that of those immediately prior to him, could very easily be a reference to the antichrist. I have hard time believing that one future figure fits the criteria, which you and I agree on.
In terms of the Maya, their practices were quite extreme. Think about the ball game and the aftermath. I was at the court in Chichen Itza, and while it is an architectural marvel, the thought of what took place there is chilling.
Let me get a name on a codex or 2 for you, and I will let you know
AE14
Board Sponsor
this is so silly I dont know where to start. You truly need to rethink what you just wrote. Muhammad was the final piece to the religious puzzle, not a "god". Huge difference. No where in the Qu'ran does it claim that Jesus was a god, in fact quite the contrary, he was a prophet along the likes of Noah, Adam, Moses etc..
madds87
Well-known member
Oklahoma bombing Is a great example of an extremist. Theres one.
. I do not call them christians in my opinion. Do you call the muslims that are suicide bombers muslims, and brothers? Its whether you agree for it or not, that makes me weery of you. I love everyone as does Jesus my Lord and Savior. But, i Can be worried, and cautious of others that are not practicing biblical tradition. Now I have no quarl with you. Just the people that bombed my country and keep threatning God's people. I agree there are lunatics to both sides unfortunatly. But i am seeing more and more and more bombings, or even attempts. If we were to compare, muslims would have alot more tallies. Name me a violent christian country......? By the way my PM box is wide open for your messages. Thanx. Anyway.... This thread is turning into another religion debate.... i would love to go back to the original subject!
madds87
Well-known member
Soooooo Im confused what are you getting across? Even if the quran doesnt claim jesus was a God, Then this still supports that the quran is totally different then what was appove stated "that islam is very similar to christianity". Christianity Is believing Jesus is the Savior, not a prophet, not some regular person like moses. That he is my Lord and Savior. Quran does not believe this And since Islam does not believe this, Islam is totally different..... Thats like calling football.... tennis....
madds87
Well-known member
madds87
Well-known member
Did not know about constatine converting before death.
Whacked
Well-known member
Silly? It's right out of the Quran. I didn't make it up out of thin air.
Invalid Link Removed
PS: Where did I said they said Jesus was a God?
Invalid Link Removed
PS: Where did I said they said Jesus was a God?
fueledpassion
Well-known member
They take a more self-reliant route to converting non-Muslims. Instead of targeting current non-Muslims, they simply move to a country and have offspring, raise them to live the same way, and then they also go and multiply. It worked in Europe and will most likely work in U.S. as well.
AE14
Board Sponsor
I have never been to that site, but as someone who has read the Qur'an I can tell you, I do not recall anything about Jesus and his "miracles". One of the most amazing aspects of the Qur'an is their thoughts on the crucifixion.
I am going to take a look at the site and who owns it etc...
Whacked
Well-known member
Thanks - I look forward to your insight
WHY did you read the Quran. Just curious.
PS: Are you a Christian or a Muslim?
WHY did you read the Quran. Just curious.
PS: Are you a Christian or a Muslim?
AE14
Board Sponsor
Whacked said:
I read it for a college class, along with the OT an NT. All 3 are interesting in their own way.
In terms of my beliefs, I was raised Jewish, but am a non-theist. I personally believe there are so many more important things for me to put my attention to, that I have left religion at the side.
Whacked
Well-known member
As intelligent as you are and eternity is of secondary importance? Just saying
OK - I won't preach but I couldnt resist
LOL
OK - I won't preach but I couldnt resist
LOL
I personally believe there are so many more important things for me to put my attention to, that I have left religion at the side.
Whacked
Well-known member
You bring up a good point
Maybe AE14 can shed some light.
If it's true that Muslims acknowledge and respect all the same prophets of the Old Testament and consider Jesus a great prophet as well; why are they so all so horibly anti-semitic?
Maybe AE14 can shed some light.
If it's true that Muslims acknowledge and respect all the same prophets of the Old Testament and consider Jesus a great prophet as well; why are they so all so horibly anti-semitic?
fueledpassion
Well-known member
Something tells me it isn't their religion that points to hatred of Christians and Jews. For them, it is most likely the same things that cause protestants to be divided amongst each other, and Catholics divided against protestants, and non-believers amongst believers - its called sin. It's a twisted perversion of what is true, it's man creating religion in hopes of getting to God. And anyone who challenges a man's religion by saying "but this is what you should do" or "that is not allowed for a man of salvation" - such things not only challenge a man's beliefs but also his very right of passage to eternity.
AE14 - we meet again, lol. I have to say, it is wise for you to avoid religious efforts to heaven - they are futile. However, what also is wise is to pay attention to your conscience because it is there for a reason! That was a gift from God to you to know that there is a standard. I'd say start there. Then I'd say to focus on the Mosaic Law (the first 10) because they define what is perfect. And thirdly I'd challenge you to see how Jesus fits into the equation after doing the first two. It makes perfect sense if anyone were patient enough to hear the logic of Christ. Its inarguably logical to me, and that is coming from a thinker/philosopher.
AE14 - we meet again, lol. I have to say, it is wise for you to avoid religious efforts to heaven - they are futile. However, what also is wise is to pay attention to your conscience because it is there for a reason! That was a gift from God to you to know that there is a standard. I'd say start there. Then I'd say to focus on the Mosaic Law (the first 10) because they define what is perfect. And thirdly I'd challenge you to see how Jesus fits into the equation after doing the first two. It makes perfect sense if anyone were patient enough to hear the logic of Christ. Its inarguably logical to me, and that is coming from a thinker/philosopher.
AE14
Board Sponsor
good to see you my friend, and I hope all is well.
I would agree to an extent about certain laws, but please bear in mind, the 10 you speak of and not original to judeo-christian thought. They can be found almost verbatim in the Egyptian Oath of Clearance in the Book of the Dead. This has always been one of my biggest issues with judeo-christian philosophy from the outset, much was taken from many earlier sources, thus negating its originality.
In terms of the Qur'an and hatred towards others, it is never mentioned within the text, in fact quite the opposite. Additionally, historically, when you look at early Muslim conquest in Europe, it was quite typical to be accepting of other faiths within their regions of conquest (in the generality of course)
I think we are speaking in horrible 21st century generalities. In all honesty, in any of the 3 holy texts, i could take things out of context and promote hatred. Its the beauty (sarcasm) of human beings.
touche'As intelligent as you are and eternity is of secondary importance? Just saying
OK - I won't preach but I couldnt resist
LOL
TO be honest, I try to live an honorable and honest life, specifically to be a good model for my daughter. If there is a supreme being, my hope would be that they would acknowledge my efforts and allow me entrance into wherever the good folks are
I would hate to think that a belief in something would mean more than a lifetime of actions.
T-AD
Well-known member
Sorry for the intrusion, folks. I hope you won't blast me too much for it, but I did want to make a few small comments along the way here and say that this thread is OUTSTANDING!!! I found it very enlightening thus far. As one who is somewhat fascinated with "doom & gloom" such as the end of days, it's nice to see an educated discussion on this (that doesn't revolve around zombies). I appreciate everything posted here, and applaud each of you.
That being said, I'm sorry that I can't agree with anything here. I am an atheist. It was not an easy decision, but ultimately, I made this choice. I am educated, even in verse, and don't have trouble convincing most that I am a staunch christian believer if they care to debate me on things. I believe the term "devil's advocate" might be appropriate here, though I don't believe in that concept either. HOWEVER... I am not closed-minded. I just lack faith of any sort beyond what my senses tell me. I'm open to be converted, but it won't be by any words, no matter who has spoken or written them. I keep my faith cup empty. (Don't feel sorry for me... that seems to be a typical reaction.) I study much, I observe much, and I take everything into consideration. When it comes to "religion", if I had to pick, I like Taoism. It's peaceful.
To me, the end times may come soon, later, or never at all. I don't know, nor do I care to know. If it occurs in my life time, I will bear witness. I will accept my fate knowing that I have lived the life I chose. If I am to be judged, it will not be on false pretenses. I am true to myself, and if that is a "sin", then I am a "sinner". Until that day comes, if ever, I live what many might consider to be a "christian life" without the influence of christ, faith, or any of it. Faith isn't a bad thing. It's the factions/fractions we call religion where things fall apart...
And now, from the guy whose namesake has not one but TWO books in the 'good book'... I bring you my 3 cents. :cheers:
(**Disclaimer: I do not capitalize religious figures or terminology. If I do, it's unintentional. It's not disrespect. It's habit and personal belief.)
Oh, no worries here, bro. Have at it and add to the conversation! I'm not a monster! (Ok, I am, but that's different...)
It's this notion of blind faith and devotion that I don't get. I question. I question questions. I refuse to put blinders on and follow the shepherd when I can opt to atleast view the countryside. To understand the teachings of the Bible, one should question their meanings and discover for oneself how they can apply to one's own life. Let us not forget that the current versions of the book are interpretations of translations of stories told by fallible men. Not one of us could write the perfect guide on how to live, and since the actual book of 'christ' is missing, it's up to the interpretations of men. One may question the word of man, but it is my understanding that christians need not question the word of god.
Much could be said about Christianity, my friend. Remember the Crusades? The Spanish Inquisition? The Salem Witch Trials? Nazi Germany? Bombing of abortion clinics? All of these are said to be done in the name of god, NOT allah. The death toll for Christianity is far higher than that of the Muslim world. If they have a score to settle, they have a LONG way to go...
If one were to be born and raised with no religion and left to discover on their own using credible sources for each of the world's religions, one might choose to follow the teachings of a mortal man over that of someone who has done extraordinary things. Jesus = Superman? Eh, I always kinda liked Batman...
I could not agree with this more if I had two agree buttons in my brain! It was the intent of the founding fathers, Washington included and most outspokenly, that the US should not become involved in foreign nations. We've focused on the splinter in our neighbor's eye and ignored the plank in our own.
That being said, I'm sorry that I can't agree with anything here. I am an atheist. It was not an easy decision, but ultimately, I made this choice. I am educated, even in verse, and don't have trouble convincing most that I am a staunch christian believer if they care to debate me on things. I believe the term "devil's advocate" might be appropriate here, though I don't believe in that concept either. HOWEVER... I am not closed-minded. I just lack faith of any sort beyond what my senses tell me. I'm open to be converted, but it won't be by any words, no matter who has spoken or written them. I keep my faith cup empty. (Don't feel sorry for me... that seems to be a typical reaction.) I study much, I observe much, and I take everything into consideration. When it comes to "religion", if I had to pick, I like Taoism. It's peaceful.
To me, the end times may come soon, later, or never at all. I don't know, nor do I care to know. If it occurs in my life time, I will bear witness. I will accept my fate knowing that I have lived the life I chose. If I am to be judged, it will not be on false pretenses. I am true to myself, and if that is a "sin", then I am a "sinner". Until that day comes, if ever, I live what many might consider to be a "christian life" without the influence of christ, faith, or any of it. Faith isn't a bad thing. It's the factions/fractions we call religion where things fall apart...
And now, from the guy whose namesake has not one but TWO books in the 'good book'... I bring you my 3 cents. :cheers:
(**Disclaimer: I do not capitalize religious figures or terminology. If I do, it's unintentional. It's not disrespect. It's habit and personal belief.)
I have some very strong opinions with some topics in this thread....
However, I take my rep position for AX very seriously; which is going to keep me civil and keep me out of controversial threads.
I will continue reading though.
Oh, no worries here, bro. Have at it and add to the conversation! I'm not a monster!
(Ok, I am, but that's different...)It's this notion of blind faith and devotion that I don't get. I question. I question questions. I refuse to put blinders on and follow the shepherd when I can opt to atleast view the countryside. To understand the teachings of the Bible, one should question their meanings and discover for oneself how they can apply to one's own life. Let us not forget that the current versions of the book are interpretations of translations of stories told by fallible men. Not one of us could write the perfect guide on how to live, and since the actual book of 'christ' is missing, it's up to the interpretations of men. One may question the word of man, but it is my understanding that christians need not question the word of god.
Much could be said about Christianity, my friend. Remember the Crusades? The Spanish Inquisition? The Salem Witch Trials? Nazi Germany? Bombing of abortion clinics? All of these are said to be done in the name of god, NOT allah. The death toll for Christianity is far higher than that of the Muslim world. If they have a score to settle, they have a LONG way to go...
If one were to be born and raised with no religion and left to discover on their own using credible sources for each of the world's religions, one might choose to follow the teachings of a mortal man over that of someone who has done extraordinary things. Jesus = Superman? Eh, I always kinda liked Batman...
I could not agree with this more if I had two agree buttons in my brain!
It was the intent of the founding fathers, Washington included and most outspokenly, that the US should not become involved in foreign nations. We've focused on the splinter in our neighbor's eye and ignored the plank in our own.Clickster
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John 10:30-33 -- "I and the Father are one." The Jews took up stones again to stone Him. Jesus answered them, "I showed you many good works from the Father; for which of them are you stoning Me?" The Jews answered Him, "For a good work we do not stone You, but for blasphemy; and because You, being a man, make Yourself out to be God."
John 1:1-- "In the beginning was the Word, and the Word was with God, and the Word was God."
-----------John 1:14 - "And the Word became flesh, and dwelt among us, and we beheld His glory, glory as of the only begotten from the Father, full of grace and truth."
John 20:28 -- "Thomas answered and said to Him, "My Lord and my God!"
Col. 2:9 -- "For in Him all the fullness of Deity dwells in bodily form."
These are just a few of many verses that make me believe Jesus is God.
"Yes, You just have to have faith son" was a very poor response from the preacher. Especially when so much scripture can answer the question.
Jesus said to worship God only, yet He receives worship.
--I agree with most of the discussion of the anti-christ. It is found all over the place.
madds87
Well-known member
T-AD said:Sorry for the intrusion, folks. I hope you won't blast me too much for it, but I did want to make a few small comments along the way here and say that this thread is OUTSTANDING!!! I found it very enlightening thus far. As one who is somewhat fascinated with "doom & gloom" such as the end of days, it's nice to see an educated discussion on this (that doesn't revolve around zombies). I appreciate everything posted here, and applaud each of you.
That being said, I'm sorry that I can't agree with anything here. I am an atheist. It was not an easy decision, but ultimately, I made this choice. I am educated, even in verse, and don't have trouble convincing most that I am a staunch christian believer if they care to debate me on things. I believe the term "devil's advocate" might be appropriate here, though I don't believe in that concept either. HOWEVER... I am not closed-minded. I just lack faith of any sort beyond what my senses tell me. I'm open to be converted, but it won't be by any words, no matter who has spoken or written them. I keep my faith cup empty. (Don't feel sorry for me... that seems to be a typical reaction.) I study much, I observe much, and I take everything into consideration. When it comes to "religion", if I had to pick, I like Taoism. It's peaceful.
To me, the end times may come soon, later, or never at all. I don't know, nor do I care to know. If it occurs in my life time, I will bear witness. I will accept my fate knowing that I have lived the life I chose. If I am to be judged, it will not be on false pretenses. I am true to myself, and if that is a "sin", then I am a "sinner". Until that day comes, if ever, I live what many might consider to be a "christian life" without the influence of christ, faith, or any of it. Faith isn't a bad thing. It's the factions/fractions we call religion where things fall apart...
And now, from the guy whose namesake has not one but TWO books in the 'good book'... I bring you my 3 cents. :cheers:
(**Disclaimer: I do not capitalize religious figures or terminology. If I do, it's unintentional. It's not disrespect. It's habit and personal belief.)
Oh, no worries here, bro. Have at it and add to the conversation! I'm not a monster!
It's this notion of blind faith and devotion that I don't get. I question. I question questions. I refuse to put blinders on and follow the shepherd when I can opt to atleast view the countryside. To understand the teachings of the Bible, one should question their meanings and discover for oneself how they can apply to one's own life. Let us not forget that the current versions of the book are interpretations of translations of stories told by fallible men. Not one of us could write the perfect guide on how to live, and since the actual book of 'christ' is missing, it's up to the interpretations of men. One may question the word of man, but it is my understanding that christians need not question the word of god.
Much could be said about Christianity, my friend. Remember the Crusades? The Spanish Inquisition? The Salem Witch Trials? Nazi Germany? Bombing of abortion clinics? All of these are said to be done in the name of god, NOT allah. The death toll for Christianity is far higher than that of the Muslim world. If they have a score to settle, they have a LONG way to go...
If one were to be born and raised with no religion and left to discover on their own using credible sources for each of the world's religions, one might choose to follow the teachings of a mortal man over that of someone who has done extraordinary things. Jesus = Superman? Eh, I always kinda liked Batman...
I could not agree with this more if I had two agree buttons in my brain!
You also have to remember some of those other events where not under the same God I believe in. not all christians believe in the same God. Dont consider all christians the same. Some are confused, non practiced, mentally sick, etc. there are different so called " christians" for its a vague title
Whacked
Well-known member
Nice post T-AD. Much respect for keeping it real and being respectful towards others' beliefs here.
That said, and this goes for AE14 as well.......I say this with ALL DUE RESPECT:
I always marvel at any you intelligent people who can reason through things so "rationally" and so intelligenty and with such conviction yet fail to see the value of "faith" and subscribing to a life that guarantees you eternal peace and happiness.
Let me explain; I am NOT preaching here.
I am trying to wrap my head around the thought process of denying the existence of God and accepting the horrible and unparalleled eternal consequences IF God exists.
Before you argue that many of the world's greatest scientists are atheist, let's diffuse this with the fact that many of the world's greatest scientists are Christian as well. So let's call that a WASH.....deal?
None of us can "hang" with the aforemented intellect. Agreed? Well, given the fact that along with the scientists that deny the existence of God, the other gifted scientists believe in Christ; doesn't this argument at least make it a 50/50 chance that God exists?
Well, eternity is a LONGGGGGGGGGGGGGGGGGGGGGGGG time to be wrong. Especially when the suffering trumps anything witnessed in your life time. If that's not an incentive, not sure what is
Think about it.
1) If you die an Atheist, and you're right, there is no God. Cool, no harm no foul. It's not like you'll be thinking when you're dead "Im so thankful I lived MY WAY and on MY TERMS as opposed to submitting to GOD". LOL - b/c you'll be a lifeless corpse and "nothing more".
2) If you die a Christian, and you're wrong - there is no God, Cool, no harm no foul. It's not like you'll be thinking when you're dead "Im so pissed I didnt get to enjoy my life on MY TERMS as opposed to submitting to this GOD stuff". LOL - b/c you'll be a lifeless corpse and "nothing more".
3) On the other hand, if you die a Christian, and therew IS a GOD eternity is a LONGGGGGGGGGGGGGGG time to enjoy the decisions you made!!!!
That said, and this goes for AE14 as well.......I say this with ALL DUE RESPECT:
I always marvel at any you intelligent people who can reason through things so "rationally" and so intelligenty and with such conviction yet fail to see the value of "faith" and subscribing to a life that guarantees you eternal peace and happiness.
Let me explain; I am NOT preaching here.
I am trying to wrap my head around the thought process of denying the existence of God and accepting the horrible and unparalleled eternal consequences IF God exists.
Before you argue that many of the world's greatest scientists are atheist, let's diffuse this with the fact that many of the world's greatest scientists are Christian as well. So let's call that a WASH.....deal?
None of us can "hang" with the aforemented intellect. Agreed? Well, given the fact that along with the scientists that deny the existence of God, the other gifted scientists believe in Christ; doesn't this argument at least make it a 50/50 chance that God exists?
Well, eternity is a LONGGGGGGGGGGGGGGGGGGGGGGGG time to be wrong. Especially when the suffering trumps anything witnessed in your life time. If that's not an incentive, not sure what is
Think about it.
1) If you die an Atheist, and you're right, there is no God. Cool, no harm no foul. It's not like you'll be thinking when you're dead "Im so thankful I lived MY WAY and on MY TERMS as opposed to submitting to GOD". LOL - b/c you'll be a lifeless corpse and "nothing more".
2) If you die a Christian, and you're wrong - there is no God, Cool, no harm no foul. It's not like you'll be thinking when you're dead "Im so pissed I didnt get to enjoy my life on MY TERMS as opposed to submitting to this GOD stuff". LOL - b/c you'll be a lifeless corpse and "nothing more".
3) On the other hand, if you die a Christian, and therew IS a GOD eternity is a LONGGGGGGGGGGGGGGG time to enjoy the decisions you made!!!!
AE14
Board Sponsor
Nice post T-AD. Much respect for keeping it real and being respectful towards others' beliefs here.
That said, and this goes for AE14 as well.......I say this with ALL DUE RESPECT:
I always marvel at any you intelligent people who can reason through things so "rationally" and so intelligenty and with such conviction yet fail to see the value of "faith" and subscribing to a life that guarantees you eternal peace and happiness.
Let me explain; I am NOT preaching here.
I am trying to wrap my head around the thought process of denying the existence of God and accepting the horrible and unparalleled eternal consequences IF God exists.
Before you argue that many of the world's greatest scientists are atheist, let's diffuse this with the fact that many of the world's greatest scientists are Christian as well. So let's call that a WASH.....deal?
None of us can "hang" with the aforemented intellect. Agreed? Well, given the fact that along with the scientists that deny the existence of God, the other gifted scientists believe in Christ; doesn't this argument at least make it a 50/50 chance that God exists?
Well, eternity is a LONGGGGGGGGGGGGGGGGGGGGGGGG time to be wrong. Especially when the suffering trumps anything witnessed in your life time. If that's not an incentive, not sure what is
Think about it.
1) If you die an Atheist, and you're right, there is no God. Cool, no harm no foul. It's not like you'll be thinking when you're dead "Im so thankful I lived MY WAY and on MY TERMS as opposed to submitting to GOD". LOL - b/c you'll be a lifeless corpse and "nothing more".
2) If you die a Christian, and you're wrong - there is no God, Cool, no harm no foul. It's not like you'll be thinking when you're dead "Im so pissed I didnt get to enjoy my life on MY TERMS as opposed to submitting to this GOD stuff". LOL - b/c you'll be a lifeless corpse and "nothing more".
3) On the other hand, if you die a Christian, and therew IS a GOD eternity is a LONGGGGGGGGGGGGGGG time to enjoy the decisions you made!!!!
So in essence (and with all due respect) I am to believe out of fear of consequences? That is not true belief imo. All that is, is trying to secure yourself a better option out of fear that there may be a consequence.
To me, if there is something out there, I would certainly hope that this all knowing, all loving being would realize that regardless of my doubting their existence, I have lead my life the right way with morals and values. If that is not enough to "save my spot" in all honesty, I wouldnt want to go. It would be based on hypocrisy and an all powerful being with a horribly weak ego.
NuclearLaunch
Active member
AE14 said:
Im a Christian but I believe as you do. Everyone is entitled to however they want to feel. The fact that you live morally and with value should be enough IMO.
Whacked
Well-known member
To be a Christian means to follow Christ's teachings. This is NOT what Christ teaches. It is thru Jesus' grace (dying on the cross for us/our sins) that we are eligible to enter Heaven, not thru our works
AE14
Board Sponsor
Whacked said:To be a Christian means to follow Christ's teachings. This is NOT what Christ teaches. It is thru Jesus' grace (dying on the cross for us/our sins) that we are eligible to enter Heaven, not thru our works
To me, that makes it undesirable. If a god only allows entrance based on belief than Hitler could be in. No thanks
Whacked
Well-known member
Yup: Hitler, arguably one the biggest pieces of garbage ever to live "could have been" forgiven IF he repented; but I'd bet the ranch he didn't, so no worries. LOL
So, since it's probable that he's in HELL, does that make you want to be in the same place with him or us Christians?
PS: Since you don't like God's rules for who gets in and who doesnt.
What rules do you suggest? Please define them.
Is there a cut off? What's the threshold?
1,324,872 sins?
So does the 1,324,873rd sin get you booted?
If so, have you been counting since birth?
If you think that "good people" should go to Heaven and bad people should go to Hell; define "good people".
Do you think YOUR opinion of a "good person" will be accepted UNIVERSALLY for the close to 7 billion people living on earth and for the MANY BILLIONS that came before us?
If so, why does YOUR opinion/moral compass dictate this as opposed to anyone else's for that matter?
Shouldnt the Creator be responsbile for etablishing such rules?
I am thankful for the dispensation for grace! I consider myself a decent human being and would probably qualify and fall into your category of "good people" I imagine but have sinned so many times and have done bad things like anyone else. There is no way I "deserve" to be in a place where there is no sin (Heaven) and bliss is a trillion-trillion fold what our human minds could ever even fathom.
The Creator of the Universe reigns in this Heaven, I can only imagine the beauty what awaits me!!!
PS: If I'm wrong? Then I'm bug food just like you.
So, since it's probable that he's in HELL, does that make you want to be in the same place with him or us Christians?
PS: Since you don't like God's rules for who gets in and who doesnt.
What rules do you suggest? Please define them.
Is there a cut off? What's the threshold?
1,324,872 sins?
So does the 1,324,873rd sin get you booted?
If so, have you been counting since birth?
If you think that "good people" should go to Heaven and bad people should go to Hell; define "good people".
Do you think YOUR opinion of a "good person" will be accepted UNIVERSALLY for the close to 7 billion people living on earth and for the MANY BILLIONS that came before us?
If so, why does YOUR opinion/moral compass dictate this as opposed to anyone else's for that matter?
Shouldnt the Creator be responsbile for etablishing such rules?
I am thankful for the dispensation for grace! I consider myself a decent human being and would probably qualify and fall into your category of "good people" I imagine but have sinned so many times and have done bad things like anyone else. There is no way I "deserve" to be in a place where there is no sin (Heaven) and bliss is a trillion-trillion fold what our human minds could ever even fathom.
The Creator of the Universe reigns in this Heaven, I can only imagine the beauty what awaits me!!!
PS: If I'm wrong? Then I'm bug food just like you.
AE14
Board Sponsor
Whacked said:Yup: Hitler, arguably one the biggest pieces of garbage ever to live "could have been" forgiven IF he repented; but I'd bet the ranch he didn't, so no worries. LOL
So, since it's probable that he's in HELL, does that make you want to be in the same place with him or us Christians?
Honestly the fact that he had an option to repent makes me want to go elsewhere.
AE14
Board Sponsor
I do not believe that there is a threshold or a cutoff. However, if there is a rational "supreme being" the decision would be rational, they would know how you behaved and what was in your heart.
Whacked
Well-known member
LOL @ Hitler comment you wont let go
Not preaching but Jesus paid the price. The "work' is finished! OUR works do NOT get us a ticket into Heaven or to Hell. It's our beliefs that determine our path.
"The sacrificial death of the Lord Jesus Christ introduced the dispensation of pure grace, which means undeserved favor, or God giving righteousness, instead of God requiring righteousness, as under law. Salvation, perfect and eternal, is now freely offered to Jew and Gentile upon the acknowledgment of sin, or repentance, with faith in Christ."
Also: Whether or not GOd is rationale or not; there is a Heaven and Hell and an eternity. wouldnt you rather live in Heaven with an irrationale God than in Hell? LOL
Not preaching but Jesus paid the price. The "work' is finished! OUR works do NOT get us a ticket into Heaven or to Hell. It's our beliefs that determine our path.
"The sacrificial death of the Lord Jesus Christ introduced the dispensation of pure grace, which means undeserved favor, or God giving righteousness, instead of God requiring righteousness, as under law. Salvation, perfect and eternal, is now freely offered to Jew and Gentile upon the acknowledgment of sin, or repentance, with faith in Christ."
Also: Whether or not GOd is rationale or not; there is a Heaven and Hell and an eternity. wouldnt you rather live in Heaven with an irrationale God than in Hell? LOL
AE14
Board Sponsor
Whacked said:LOL @ Hitler comment you wont let go
Not preaching but Jesus paid the price. The "work' is finished! OUR works do NOT get us a ticket into Heaven or to Hell. It's our beliefs that determine our path.
"The sacrificial death of the Lord Jesus Christ introduced the dispensation of pure grace, which means undeserved favor, or God giving righteousness, instead of God requiring righteousness, as under law. Salvation, perfect and eternal, is now freely offered to Jew and Gentile upon the acknowledgment of sin, or repentance, with faith in Christ."
Also: Whether or not GOd is rationale or not; there is a Heaven and Hell and an eternity. wouldnt you rather live in Heaven with an irrationale God than in Hell? LOL
I always find thoughts like this amusing. The idea that a man/divine character would or could be sacrificed is so silly to me (no offense). The idea that a creator would do something like this to prove a point is totally irrational. This divine character knows the past/present/future, but needs to intervene in its own creation because what it created is faulty and also its own image Things that make you go hmmmmmn.
By your definition god is as rational as a woman with PMS. Yikes.
NuclearLaunch
Active member
Whacked said:To be a Christian means to follow Christ's teachings. This is NOT what Christ teaches. It is thru Jesus' grace (dying on the cross for us/our sins) that we are eligible to enter Heaven, not thru our works
We are also taught that everyone has a different way of looking things and to except others opinions. I believe there there are many "Christians" that will be in hell. I believe that there are many non believers that will be in heaven. Anyone can read a bible, to live life by the guidelines(morally and with value) is completely different. If he is doing that who is to say he won't get in. I have had some very in depth discussions with priest of my faith and this is the conclusions many of them and I seem to come too.
Can we not make this an argument of who is right or wrong? Everyone knows there are two things in the world you don't argue, politics and religion, you won't change people's mind on each. All you will do is work each other up and do more harm than good. Everyone can believe how they want, don't turn this into a right/wrong thread.
Whacked
Well-known member
Sup NL: Respectfully, I couldn't disagree more as this contrasts the most fundamental tenets + doctrines of 'true" Christianity
AE: You're a trip man!! haha
Everyone: Thank yuo for leeping this a respectful toned thread. NL is correct in that these threads typically ignite word-wars. lol
I'm with Carpee and NL: Let's get back OT.............
Christians: Do you believe we are living in the "END TIMES" and that the Biblical prophesies are being fulfilled? We do know that the birth of a new nation of Israel (circa 1948) supports this. The Bible teaches that this will usher in the beginning of End time events within one generation.
Atheists/Agnostics: Do you believe the world as we know it will end soon with some planetary disaster or super-cataclysmic event(s)? (Meteoirte, death by deadly gama rays or sun flares and/or other non-religious based theories)
AE: You're a trip man!! haha
Everyone: Thank yuo for leeping this a respectful toned thread. NL is correct in that these threads typically ignite word-wars. lol
I'm with Carpee and NL: Let's get back OT.............
Christians: Do you believe we are living in the "END TIMES" and that the Biblical prophesies are being fulfilled? We do know that the birth of a new nation of Israel (circa 1948) supports this. The Bible teaches that this will usher in the beginning of End time events within one generation.
Atheists/Agnostics: Do you believe the world as we know it will end soon with some planetary disaster or super-cataclysmic event(s)? (Meteoirte, death by deadly gama rays or sun flares and/or other non-religious based theories)
luclyluciano
Well-known member
Let's be real about this. Even if there is a GOD, does not mean that The Bible is the correct following. Most were born into their beliefs and did zero research and have no critical thinking on this subject. So, no. I do not believe in the end times written by stonage people. I hope you don't fall into "the bible was written by God" belief.
This does not mean that I choose not to believe in a higher power.
This does not mean that I choose not to believe in a higher power.
Whacked
Well-known member
With all due respect, you just contradicted yourself just the way MANY alleged "fact-based and science-based atheists do.
By even acknowleging the potential for a "higher power" gives credence for a Creator or "GOD". As such, refuting the "Biblical God" without smoking-gun evidence of any other SPECIFIC authority or "higher power" is illogical on its face. While perspectives like yours do not support MY GOD's existence specifically, it does little to categorically deny it either.
Even Richard Dawkins, with all his anti-God convictions and impressive knowledge, and very the face of Aetheism CANNOT deny the THEORY that a CREATOR MIGHT EXIST as he stumbles every time he is faces with the issue of ORIGIN.....specifically, what was the impetus for this BIG BANG.
PS: How can so many lay people with inferior intelligence (like all of us on therse boards) claim to know so much about whether God exists or not yet while even the world's most famous Aethesits cannot PROVE their arguments. Christians dont need to as we have what's called FAITH and it's for us to relish in. We don't have ALL the answers and do not claim to comprehend the infinite omnipotence or our GOD. The burden of proof falls on the Aetheists, as we Christians have our unwavering prood already
While I don't want to turn this into a debate about the existence of God (there are already plenty of theads on this very subject), why is it that Aetheists always feel so compelled to comment on threads like these. I even specifically and appropriately titled the thread TO MY CHRISTIAN FRIENDS.
Aethesits and Agnostics are welcomed to participate and engage but please; let's remain on topic.
Thanks!
By even acknowleging the potential for a "higher power" gives credence for a Creator or "GOD". As such, refuting the "Biblical God" without smoking-gun evidence of any other SPECIFIC authority or "higher power" is illogical on its face. While perspectives like yours do not support MY GOD's existence specifically, it does little to categorically deny it either.
Even Richard Dawkins, with all his anti-God convictions and impressive knowledge, and very the face of Aetheism CANNOT deny the THEORY that a CREATOR MIGHT EXIST as he stumbles every time he is faces with the issue of ORIGIN.....specifically, what was the impetus for this BIG BANG.
PS: How can so many lay people with inferior intelligence (like all of us on therse boards) claim to know so much about whether God exists or not yet while even the world's most famous Aethesits cannot PROVE their arguments. Christians dont need to as we have what's called FAITH and it's for us to relish in. We don't have ALL the answers and do not claim to comprehend the infinite omnipotence or our GOD. The burden of proof falls on the Aetheists, as we Christians have our unwavering prood already
While I don't want to turn this into a debate about the existence of God (there are already plenty of theads on this very subject), why is it that Aetheists always feel so compelled to comment on threads like these. I even specifically and appropriately titled the thread TO MY CHRISTIAN FRIENDS.
Aethesits and Agnostics are welcomed to participate and engage but please; let's remain on topic.
Thanks!
AE14
Board Sponsor
With all due respect, you just contradicted yourself just the way MANY alleged "fact-based and science-based atheists do.
By even acknowleging the potential for a "higher power" gives credence for a Creator or "GOD". As such, refuting the "Biblical God" without smoking-gun evidence of any other SPECIFIC authority or "higher power" is illogical on its face. While perspectives like yours do not support MY GOD's existence specifically, it does little to categorically deny it either.
Even Richard Dawkins, with all his anti-God convictions and impressive knowledge, and very the face of Aetheism CANNOT deny the THEORY that a CREATOR MIGHT EXIST as he stumbles every time he is faces with the issue of ORIGIN.....specifically, what was the impetus for this BIG BANG.
PS: How can so many lay people with inferior intelligence (like all of us on therse boards) claim to know so much about whether God exists or not yet while even the world's most famous Aethesits cannot PROVE their arguments. Christians dont need to as we have what's called FAITH and it's for us to relish in. We don't have ALL the answers and do not claim to comprehend the infinite omnipotence or our GOD. The burden of proof falls on the Aetheists, as we Christians have our unwavering prood already
While I don't want to turn this into a debate about the existence of God (there are already plenty of theads on this very subject), why is it that Aetheists always feel so compelled to comment on threads like these. I even specifically and appropriately titled the thread TO MY CHRISTIAN FRIENDS.
Aethesits and Agnostics are welcomed to participate and engage but please; let's remain on topic.
Thanks!
Agreed that this should not take the form of a "prove god" discussion, however, lets analyze what you said. You said the burden of proof falls to the atheists, and I ask you, how do you arrive at that conclusion? In a court of law, the burden of proof always falls to the person who believes in something (Prosecution believes that the defendant committed a crime). With that said, the burden always will fall to the theist. So....prove it, and please use tangible evidence and not faith based evidence.
The fact is, you cannot without faith. Which is fine, and if that is how you care to base your belief, I think that is totally wonderful to be honest. However, for someone like me....I need more. T-AD said something a few days ago that rings true for me. I question, hell, I question questions. I cannot take anything at face value, it goes against who I am. Does it mean I belong in hell? Nope, just means I am wired differently from you, but I am going to assume that we are both pretty damn amazing people, who always do our best no matter the situation. To me, thats all that matters, not the approval of the improvable.
To the question at hand about the end times, the only thing I will say is that most NASA scientists have divulged that there is expected to be an increase in solar activity in 2012, of which, some COULD BE dangerous. Looks like we need to wait and see