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24/7 pumps/muscle fullness

here we go again.
 
BigGunn said:
Where are your credentials- Dr. Aleksandar37? Where do you work? Where are the research studies you published? What "lab" do you work at? You show us that info and I will share more. Until then you have some personal beef with me and if you want to take it off-line we can, but go poop in someone elses cereal today. Come on big talker pony up your bio!!!!
Click to expand...

So you're not going to answer the question then?

I'm not throwing around my credentials. I simply asked a question, but since you asked I will answer.

My name is Alex Dec. I received my PhD in neuroscience in the spring of 2010. I am currently doing my post-doc at Rosalind Franklin University in North Chicago, IL.

Publications so far:
Invalid Link Removed

Ondracek JM, Dec A, Hoque KE, Lim SA, Rasouli G, Indorkar RP, Linardakis J, Klika B, Mukherji SJ, Burnazi M, Threlfell S, Sammut S, West AR.

Eur J Neurosci. 2008 Apr;27(7):1739-54. Epub 2008 Mar 26.





Invalid Link Removed

Sammut S, Dec A, Mitchell D, Linardakis J, Ortiguela M, West AR.

Neuropsychopharmacology. 2006 Mar;31(3):493-505

I have not published since 2008 because I was working on my thesis which was on an NOS-1 inhibitor model of schizohprenia. I am currently working on 2 first author papers: one from my thesis and the other on the PDEs in Parkinson's disease.

So now when your done with your roid rage, perhaps you can answer the question.
 
itzDodge said:
It is 3 compounds, GPLC, Agmatine Sulfate, and I'm fairly certain the fancy termed one is Theobromine, a xanthine. It will be a stimulant, agmatine for pumps, blood flow, mood, etc...
Click to expand...

K guess that stimulant is actually a vaso dilator (spl?) as well, not a constrictor like caffeine, 1,3 etc....

Sound good as I already like gplc, just finished a bag from pp, not bad and I feel mixing it with another carnosine product like lclt helped make it better and dropped fat which in turn increased vascularity...

Its more then likely to have an effective dose of each as well given the size of the prop blend, worth a shot for the price.... Too bad budget isn't open for supp purchases for another month...
 
I am not the only one that has access to it- I am the "only one" who presumably has made the effort to obtain the data to substantiate the claim.

I will have to ask and find out why it was never published. Perhaps it was- and I don't have the abstract, just the raw data? Perhaps it will be some day? Perhaps there is no real significance from a scientific perspective. From a clinical or pharmacological yes- but I am not sure what this college professor/ researcher gains by being able to stimulate NO via NADH? I will attempt to find out.



Aleksandar37 said:
So you're not going to answer the question then?

I'm not throwing around my credentials. I simply asked a question, but since you asked I will answer.

My name is Alex Dec. I received my PhD in neuroscience in the spring of 2010. I am currently doing my post-doc at Rosalind Franklin University in North Chicago, IL.

Publications so far:
Invalid Link Removed

Ondracek JM, Dec A, Hoque KE, Lim SA, Rasouli G, Indorkar RP, Linardakis J, Klika B, Mukherji SJ, Burnazi M, Threlfell S, Sammut S, West AR.

Eur J Neurosci. 2008 Apr;27(7):1739-54. Epub 2008 Mar 26.





Invalid Link Removed

Sammut S, Dec A, Mitchell D, Linardakis J, Ortiguela M, West AR.

Neuropsychopharmacology. 2006 Mar;31(3):493-505

I have not published since 2008 because I was working on my thesis which was on an NOS-1 inhibitor model of schizohprenia. I am currently working on 2 first author papers: one from my thesis and the other on the PDEs in Parkinson's disease.

So now when your done with your roid rage, perhaps you can answer the question.
Click to expand...
 
BigGunn said:
I am not the only one that has access to it- I am the "only one" who presumably has made the effort to obtain the data to substantiate the claim.

I will have to ask and find out why it was never published. Perhaps it was- and I don't have the abstract, just the raw data? Perhaps it will be some day? Perhaps there is no real significance from a scientific perspective. From a clinical or pharmacological yes- but I am not sure what this college professor/ researcher gains by being able to stimulate NO via NADH? I will attempt to find out.
Click to expand...

No worries. I just emailed Dr. Malinski and filled him in. I'll let you know as I wait here in my imaginary "lab"

Also, no scientist is going to let their raw data be posted on the net before it is published. Good try though!
 
Sourdough said:
K guess that stimulant is actually a vaso dilator (spl?) as well, not a constrictor like caffeine, 1,3 etc....

Sound good as I already like gplc, just finished a bag from pp, not bad and I feel mixing it with another carnosine product like lclt helped make it better and dropped fat which in turn increased vascularity...

Its more then likely to have an effective dose of each as will given the size of the prop blend, worth a shot for the price.... Too bad budget isn't open for supp purchases for another month...
Click to expand...

All xanthine's appear to be vasodilators iirc and it would be a stimulant. Caffeine and 1,3D are as well when dosed prior to training. I'll look for the links one second.

I also like the carnitines in general, some studies dsade put up show long term administration of lclt can increase muscular carnosine stores as well give me a second and I'll grab those links too. And as far as the APS stuff goes I can totally see it being dosed effectively, they have some good stuff.
 
lol this thread took a turn for the worst.


I love when someone asks for substantiating proof, and then the guy posting his "proof" lashes out.


Well done rep! ;)
 
itzDodge said:
All xanthine's appear to be vasodilators iirc and it would be a stimulant. Caffeine and 1,3D are as well when dosed prior to training. I'll look for the links one second.

I also like the carnitines in general, some studies dsade put up show long term administration of lclt can increase muscular carnosine stores as well give me a second and I'll grab those links too. And as far as the APS stuff goes I can totally see it being dosed effectively, they have some good stuff.
Click to expand...

neuron said:
Caffeine has two main modalities (there are others): as an adenosine receptor antagonist and as a PDE inhibitor. During exercise the skeletal muscle vascular beds are hyper-responsive to vasodilation, and almost unresponsive to vasoconstriction (due to local metabolite production). With this in mind, caffeine will potentiate the vasodilation via it's intrinsic PDEI capacity - delaying the hydrolysis of cAMP and prolonging vasodilation.
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I have more but thats an explanation of caffeine.

neuron said:
1,3-DMAA and Exercise
The most important and relevant aspect of 1,3-DMAA's pharmacology is its effects on blood pressure during exercise. In a normal individual, systolic pressure generally increases as a consequence of an increased stroke volume, among other things. Similarly, diastolic pressure generally decreases or stays the same as the vascular beds in muscle are vasodilated [4]. The etiology of the vasodilation is due to localized effects of vasodilating metabolites (adenosine, exc) and due to hyper-responsiveness to catecholamine agonism of the beta2 receptors. Since norepinphrine and epinephrine saturate the plasma during exercise, the vasoconstrictive properties of 1,3-DMAA may be sufficiently blunted, especially in the amounts generally taken (20-30mg), and especially through oral administration. It's efffects may, however, by exaggerated by the co-administration of other adrenergic agents.
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^^It might not induce vascularity but during exercise its effects are most likely nullified.

Genomyx said:
[h=6]J Physiol. 2011 Feb 15;589(Pt 4):963-73. Epub 2011 Jan 4.
Chronic oral ingestion of L-carnitine and carbohydrate increases muscle carnitine content and alters muscle fuel metabolism during exercise in humans.
Wall BT, Stephens FB, Constantin-Teodosiu D, Marimuthu K, Macdonald IA, Greenhaff PL.
Source

... Department of Human Movement Sciences, Maastricht University, Maastricht, 6200 MD, the Netherlands. [email protected]
Abstract

We have previously shown that insulin increases muscle total carnitine (TC) content during acute i.v. l-carnitine infusion. Here we determined the effects of chronic l-carnitine and carbohydrate (CHO; to elevate serum insulin) ingestion on muscle TC content and exercise metabolism and performance in humans. On three visits, each separated by 12 weeks, 14 healthy male volunteers (age 25.9 ± 2.1 years, BMI 23.0 ± 0.8 kg m−2) performed an exercise test comprising 30 min cycling at 50% , 30 min at 80% , then a 30 min work output performance trial. Muscle biopsies were obtained at rest and after exercise at 50% and 80% on each occasion. Following visit one, volunteers ingested either 80 g of CHO (Control) or 2 g of l-carnitine-l-tartrate and 80 g of CHO (Carnitine) twice daily for 24 weeks in a randomised, double blind manner. All significant effects reported occurred after 24 weeks. Muscle TC increased from basal by 21% in Carnitine (P < 0.05), and was unchanged in Control. At 50% , the Carnitine group utilised 55% less muscle glycogen compared to Control (P < 0.05) and 31% less pyruvate dehydrogenase complex (PDC) activation compared to before supplementation (P < 0.05). Conversely, at 80% , muscle PDC activation was 38% higher (P < 0.05), acetylcarnitine content showed a trend to be 16% greater (P < 0.10), muscle lactate content was 44% lower (P < 0.05) and the muscle PCr/ATP ratio was better maintained (P < 0.05) in Carnitine compared to Control. The Carnitine group increased work output 11% from baseline in the performance trial, while Control showed no change. This is the first demonstration that human muscle TC can be increased by dietary means and results in muscle glycogen sparing during low intensity exercise (consistent with an increase in lipid utilisation) and a better matching of glycolytic, PDC and mitochondrial flux during high intensity exercise, thereby reducing muscle anaerobic ATP production. Furthermore, these changes were associated with an improvement in exercise performance.
Comment in

* J Physiol. 2011 Apr 1;589(Pt 7):1509-10.
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[/h]
Not trying to pimp but this will be a part of upcoming products from Genomyx, more info in our company sub forum.
 
VaughnTrue said:
lol this thread took a turn for the worst.


I love when someone asks for substantiating proof, and then the guy posting his "proof" lashes out.


Well done rep! ;)
Click to expand...

I lashed out? I asked a question about a product that rep is selling and he threatens me by wanting to take it offline. And I posted my credentials because he asked. If you don't believe I am who I say I am, best let that person know there is somebody on here pretending to be them. Google and email them.
 
Aleksandar37 said:
I lashed out? I asked a question about a product that rep is selling and he threatens me by wanting to take it offline. And I posted my credentials because he asked. If you don't believe I am who I say I am, best let that person know there is somebody on here pretending to be them. Google and email them.
Click to expand...

I was not threatening you, I just would prefer to have this unnecessary debate off-line as in a PM rather than another public pissing match.

And I think he was being sarcastic as in I am the one who lashed out and didn't handle himself well......again.
 
itzDodge said:
All xanthine's appear to be vasodilators iirc and it would be a stimulant. Caffeine and 1,3D are as well when dosed prior to training. I'll look for the links one second.

I also like the carnitines in general, some studies dsade put up show long term administration of lclt can increase muscular carnosine stores as well give me a second and I'll grab those links too. And as far as the APS stuff goes I can totally see it being dosed effectively, they have some good stuff.
Click to expand...

Really???

I was under the impression that they were most definitely constrictors except in the brain where they act as a dilator... thus the relief of headaches and its addition to some pain relief products...

I look forward to this info!
 
Sourdough said:
Really???

I was under the impression that they were most definitely constrictors except in the brain where they act as a dilator... thus the relief of headaches and its addition to some pain relief products...

I look forward to this info!
Click to expand...

Yah lots of new factors when you're lifting check my post above, quoted myself instead of you not sure wtf happened there but its up above lol
 
itzDodge said:
I have more but thats an explanation of caffeine.



^^It might not induce vascularity but during exercise its effects are most likely nullified.

[/h]
Not trying to pimp but this will be a part of upcoming products from Genomyx, more info in our company sub forum.
Click to expand...

aha nice you already posted it!!!

So your saying LCLT will be included in a new product soon??? I love it in bulk thus far and the benefits documentedd and in application are undeniable... Its def going to be a staple for me and increased doses are planned for use during my next cycle to help increaeAR sites and increase the time taken to reduce AR desensitizing.... I will be utilizing a Good Dose of 4-DHEA to make my last stash of 4-AD last a good deal longer alongside some Ultradrol.... should be killer.... sorry im tangent prone today.
 
itzDodge said:
Yah lots of new factors when you're lifting check my post above, quoted myself instead of you not sure wtf happened there but its up above lol
Click to expand...

ya I caught that after posting....

It makes complete sense to me though as MANY "pump" preworkout products contain loads of xanthines and are still VERY effective at providing a pump.... I always wondered how that was. Reps to you for clarification....
 
Sourdough said:
aha nice you already posted it!!!

So your saying LCLT will be included in a new product soon??? I love it in bulk thus far and the benefits documentedd and in application are undeniable... Its def going to be a staple for me and increased doses are planned for use during my next cycle to help increaeAR sites and increase the time taken to reduce AR desensitizing.... I will be utilizing a Good Dose of 4-DHEA to make my last stash of 4-AD last a good deal longer alongside some Ultradrol.... should be killer.... sorry im tangent prone today.
Click to expand...

I wasn't aware LCLT increased receptor site numbers, from what I understand in one study researchers agreed it was more of a protection effect especially during exercise. Regardless LCLT is a good idea anytime especially when running hormonals, hell I'm even going to use it when I run Triazole soon lol. As far as the product goes I'm not sure appears to be a mix of an old anti oxidant product under the RPN line(NOxidant?) and a general health product, by that I don't mean a ****ing multi(I hate multis). Feel free to check out the sub section he's been posting up studies on so many different things its hard for me to keep track whats going into it. Many other new things on the horizon as well(a revamped slin sane, pre workout, and updated DCP iirc)

As far as those old pump products go that were pixie dusted with random ingredients and loads of arginine and caffeine and the newer 1,3D ones, yah the pump was generally from the hefty stim dose.
 
mmmm DCP... its coming back finally eh??


Does Matt still develop for you guys or is he completely disassociated with the company?

i too am not a HUGE fan of multi's.

if I remember correctly the increase in AR sites is most pronounced in the presence of increased androgen activity... namely test.... but that part i believe was hearsay.... the fact that it does increase AR site is scientifically documented... I will search for the initial source this was from...
 
Invalid Link Removed

heres a nice article
 
can anyone find the abstracts or full studies of the following??? my google search just seems to pull up more of the similar citations but not abstract.....

Kraemer, W.J., et al. Androgenic Responses to resistance exercise: Effects of feeding and L-Carnitine. Med Sci Sports Exerc 38(7): 1288-1296, 2006.


Kraemer, W.J., et al. The Effects of L-Carnitine L-Tartrate supplementation on hormonal responses to resistance exercise and recovery. J Strength Cond Res 17(3): 455-462, 2003.


Volek, J.S., et al. L-Carnitine L-Tartrate supplementation favorably affects markers of recovery from exercise stress. Am J Physiol Endocrinol Metab 282(2): E474-E482, 2002.


Inoue, K., et al. Androgen receptor antagonist suppresses exercise-induced hypertrophy of skeletal muscle. Eur J Appl Physiol Occup Physiol 69(1): 88-91, 1994.



Willoughby, D.S., and L. Taylor. Effects of sequential bouts of resistance exercise on androgen receptor expression. Med Sci Sports Exerc 36(9):1499-1506, 2004.



Deschenes, M.R., et al. Endurance and resistance exercise induce muscle fiber type specific responses in androgen binding capacity. J Steroid Biochem Mol Biol 50(3-4): 175-179, 1994.



Ratamess, N.A., et al. Androgen receptor content following heavy resistance exercise in men. J Steroid Biochem Mol Biol 93(1): 35-42, 2005.



Bamman, M.M., et al. Mechanical load increases muscle IGF-I and androgen receptor mRNA concentrations in humans. Am J Physiol Endocrinol Metab 280(3): E383-390, 2001.



Tchaikovsky, V.S., et al. The effect of exercises on the content and reception of the steroid hormones in rat skeletal muscles. J Steroid Biochem 24(1): 251-253, 1986.



Lee, W.J., et al. Regulation of androgen receptor expression at the onset of functional overload in rat plantaris muscle. Am J Physiol Regul Integr Comp Physiol 285(5): R1076-R1085, 2003.




 
Think this is where we were taking about agmatine.

For the guys that used it did u buy bulk powder or pills from a certain company or what?
 
AaronJP1 said:
Think this is where we were taking about agmatine.

For the guys that used it did u buy bulk powder or pills from a certain company or what?
Click to expand...

you can get it solo from SNS and SmartPowders


Or you can get it in an awesome formula with a ton of other goodies for an amazing price and a product that tastes like candy from iForce HemaVol.
 
VaughnTrue said:
you can get it solo from SNS and SmartPowders

Or you can get it in an awesome formula with a ton of other goodies for an amazing price and a product that tastes like candy from iForce HemaVol.
Click to expand...

I was reading and old thread saw where u said people thought u guys were crazy coming out with hemavol.

I looked for sns agmatine on bb site didn't see it, I'm going to have to check other sites...
 
Sourdough said:
mmmm DCP... its coming back finally eh??

Does Matt still develop for you guys or is he completely disassociated with the company?

i too am not a HUGE fan of multi's.

if I remember correctly the increase in AR sites is most pronounced in the presence of increased androgen activity... namely test.... but that part i believe was hearsay.... the fact that it does increase AR site is scientifically documented... I will search for the initial source this was from...
Click to expand...

Yah Matt(dsade) is awesome. DCP actually is back too, however TTA is becoming a controlled substance or something is happening to it I don't remember exactly but just know its going to be gone everywhere shortly, or thats the word on it at least. You might find DCP at a few places, feel free to PM me about it and other goods we've got. DCP well become reformulated and so far only Matt knows whats going in it, however the pre workout(Protocol Evolved) should be out very soon. I have no idea on the eta for Basyx but I do know a lot of new stuff has touched the surface shortly so I'd except not more than a few months. I'm may be dropping the ball big time lol not sure if I'm supposed to be mentioning these things or not

The BB article is nice and all but I try to avoid their articles as they still have ones that say carbs at night are evil and if I don't eat 20x my body weight in protein I'll fade away. Here is an excellent article on the carnitines: Invalid Link Removed
 
AaronJP1 said:
I was reading and old thread saw where u said people thought u guys were crazy coming out with hemavol.

I looked for sns agmatine on bb site didn't see it, I'm going to have to check other sites...
Click to expand...


Basically, every single person out there told us Agmatine didn't have immediate effects, and us including it in a "pump" product was useless.

Since then, EVERYONE now agrees with iForce Nutrition and myself(my formula) that Agmatine does indeed indeed work immediately, and causes awesome pumps.


HemaVol > Agmatine.


HemaVol is 1g Agmatine, 5g Citrulline, 2g GMS, 250mg Norvaline...and the list keeps going. Doesn't get ANY better.


Invalid Link Removed
 
AaronJP1 said:
Think this is where we were taking about agmatine.

For the guys that used it did u buy bulk powder or pills from a certain company or what?
Click to expand...

I've used bulk powders, SNS caps and Hemavol. Hemavol has an advantage bc of the other ingredients and taste :) But they all work.
 
oh ya, i know regarding bb.com so much crap floating left and right its ridiculous (why ive always preferred AM.com and others)... it was just at the top of the list after i googled L-carnatine L-tartrate and androgen.... it wasnt my initial source of info i read many months ago but it did cover the same points which is why i was willing to post it up and was hoping to use the cited studies at the bottom for the real info...

I remember Dsade talkin bout removing TTA AGES ago, way before he even closed RPN down... id be surprised if it was for any reason relating to the removal of TTA from the market as its still being sold under many other labels... could be wrong though maybe Matt knew about something ahead of the curve and/or legislation is taking its sweet time banning it.... wouldnt know why once again, great compound.
 
VaughnTrue said:
Basically, every single person out there told us Agmatine didn't have immediate effects, and us including it in a "pump" product was useless.

Since then, EVERYONE now agrees with iForce Nutrition and myself(my formula) that Agmatine does indeed indeed work immediately, and causes awesome pumps.


HemaVol > Agmatine.


HemaVol is 1g Agmatine, 5g Citrulline, 2g GMS, 250mg Norvaline...and the list keeps going. Doesn't get ANY better.


Invalid Link Removed
Click to expand...

should add 4.5g GPLC ;)
 
I won that new stuff supersize. I'm check hemavol out on in next month or 2 thx for the heads up.
 
BigGunn said:
Where are your credentials- Dr. Aleksandar37? Where do you work? Where are the research studies you published? What "lab" do you work at? You show us that info and I will share more. Until then you have some personal beef with me and if you want to take it off-line we can, but go poop in someone elses cereal today. Come on big talker pony up your bio!!!!
Click to expand...

Aleksandar37 said:
So you're not going to answer the question then?

I'm not throwing around my credentials. I simply asked a question, but since you asked I will answer.

My name is Alex Dec. I received my PhD in neuroscience in the spring of 2010. I am currently doing my post-doc at Rosalind Franklin University in North Chicago, IL.

Publications so far:
Invalid Link Removed

Ondracek JM, Dec A, Hoque KE, Lim SA, Rasouli G, Indorkar RP, Linardakis J, Klika B, Mukherji SJ, Burnazi M, Threlfell S, Sammut S, West AR.

Eur J Neurosci. 2008 Apr;27(7):1739-54. Epub 2008 Mar 26.





Invalid Link Removed

Sammut S, Dec A, Mitchell D, Linardakis J, Ortiguela M, West AR.

Neuropsychopharmacology. 2006 Mar;31(3):493-505

I have not published since 2008 because I was working on my thesis which was on an NOS-1 inhibitor model of schizohprenia. I am currently working on 2 first author papers: one from my thesis and the other on the PDEs in Parkinson's disease.

So now when your done with your roid rage, perhaps you can answer the question.
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L O L. Aleksander, what are your thoughts on supplementing NADH for pumps since you're not a rep and are not "biased" like me? (I think I already know your answer)
 
Ok I had a few workouts with Hemavol and maximizev2. Guys weren't lying pumps are unreal And maximize is some powerful stuff but doesn't crack me out! Will report back later, thanks again!
 
Good Day mr.cooper69

Ah- yes, this subject has been discussed in a few threads now. I believe I have answered these/any/all questions/concerns in another thread, so you are welcome to do some research to find them. But to summarize the Senator from North Chicago thinks the idea is "horse crap" (not his words exactly...). And that's OK. If I present any additional information on NADH it will be via PM to Aleksandar37. He was kind enough to forgive me for acting liking such a dildo. But I am not going to go through yet another flogging on here about 1 ingredient in our products- as all I am doing is simply repeating what other scientists have already stated.

mr.cooper69 said:
L O L. Aleksander, what are your thoughts on supplementing NADH for pumps since you're not a rep and are not "biased" like me? (I think I already know your answer)
Click to expand...
 
BigGunn said:
Good Day mr.cooper69

Ah- yes, this subject has been discussed in a few threads now. I believe I have answered these/any/all questions/concerns in another thread, so you are welcome to do some research to find them. But to summarize the Senator from North Chicago thinks the idea is "horse crap" (not his words exactly...). And that's OK. If I present any additional information on NADH it will be via PM to Aleksandar37. He was kind enough to forgive me for acting liking such a dildo. But I am not going to go through yet another flogging on here about 1 ingredient in our products- as all I am doing is simply repeating what other scientists have already stated.
Click to expand...

It's fine, I already spoke to aleksander via PM, classy guy.

Who is this senator I'm unaware of?
 
I'm so far behind of what's been happening in this thread lol...
 
Aleksandar37 said:
Hey, I just hold people from Chicago to a much higher standard:P
Click to expand...

Well I'm from Cleveland....
 
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