Thoughts on pulsing oral PH/DS
- Thread starter JudoJosh
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mich29
Board Sponsor
I've spoken with alot of older guys who just use them on training days and they have said time and time again there really hasn't been much of a difference and it helps in not putting your liver through unneeded stress by taking them everyday.
just my 2 cents though
Patrick Arnold
Featured Author
Its one of those theories that will always be wondered about until an actual controlled clinical analysis of the subject is carried out. which will probably be never
HondaV65
Active member
Well ... I am 49 years old and my test levels (both free and total) are actually above the maximum specification. I reckon it's been that way all my life.
That said - I don't want **** with my HPTA too much and screw that up.
Soooo ...
What I do is ... I pulse maybe two cycles a year and so far I've only done it with Epistane. But when I pulse - I use a version of the "Dr. D No PCT" method. Basically - I take 40 mg on M / W / F ... which are all heavy lifting days for me. I will do that for two weeks ... M/W/F - that's six doses.
Then take two weeks off.
Then repeat the Epi pulse as above for another 2 weeks.
I don't need a PCT for that - though sometimes I throw in Clomid or Torem because I like them. First time I pulsed was the worst - and felt like I was on a roller coaster. After that - it got WAY easier - enjoyable even.
Don't expect huge results though. I only use this to get me lifting a bit heavier in the gym. It makes cutting a bit easier though.
I'll also do about two eight week cycles of Ostarine - which doesn't suppress me at all (and I've tested this with bloods). YMMV - because some people claim it shuts them down at least a little.
Rest of the time I'll cycle on and off Testforce II - just to keep my test levels up there. It may have been responsible for my last test readings - which were 950 ng/ml (total) and 34.5 (free). I don't know - I had been religiously taking it for two months but slacked off about 1.5 weeks before I took those bloods.
That said - I don't want **** with my HPTA too much and screw that up.
Soooo ...
What I do is ... I pulse maybe two cycles a year and so far I've only done it with Epistane. But when I pulse - I use a version of the "Dr. D No PCT" method. Basically - I take 40 mg on M / W / F ... which are all heavy lifting days for me. I will do that for two weeks ... M/W/F - that's six doses.
Then take two weeks off.
Then repeat the Epi pulse as above for another 2 weeks.
I don't need a PCT for that - though sometimes I throw in Clomid or Torem because I like them. First time I pulsed was the worst - and felt like I was on a roller coaster. After that - it got WAY easier - enjoyable even.
Don't expect huge results though. I only use this to get me lifting a bit heavier in the gym. It makes cutting a bit easier though.
I'll also do about two eight week cycles of Ostarine - which doesn't suppress me at all (and I've tested this with bloods). YMMV - because some people claim it shuts them down at least a little.
Rest of the time I'll cycle on and off Testforce II - just to keep my test levels up there. It may have been responsible for my last test readings - which were 950 ng/ml (total) and 34.5 (free). I don't know - I had been religiously taking it for two months but slacked off about 1.5 weeks before I took those bloods.
jbryand101b
Banned
this is pretty much it.
but to reitterate (sp) when pa has been asked this before:
there ya go, no need for more info, "if it feels good, do it"
Sourdough
Well-known member
jbryand101b said:
That's quiet the persistent line of reasoning in every facet of life now days and it just doesn't work....
Qualitative and quantitative research should be put into such a thing before saying yay or nay.... Solid results leading to a solid repeatable resolution and answer.
I respect PA's current response in this thread.
I wouldn't ever pulse without still running constant support throughout and a pct after.
I don't personally think it would be healthy to run your body through that rollercoaster and then leave it hanging to take care of itself afterwards.
What feels good is nice and all till its introduced you to a drug that ruins your life or a whore who ruins your life....
jaydollars
Well-known member
I pulsed epi, loved it, lipids came back almost exactly the same as pre cycle, to each his own
Maybe next time I'll get blood work done middle of cycle to see what it's like then, I also followed the dr d method, will do it again
I pulsed because I did not want to kill my lipids, and I think it worked, I could care less about shutdown or liver values
Maybe next time I'll get blood work done middle of cycle to see what it's like then, I also followed the dr d method, will do it again
I pulsed because I did not want to kill my lipids, and I think it worked, I could care less about shutdown or liver values
TheDarkHalf
Well-known member
I've always thought pulsing would be a waste....taking an oral daily will allow it to build a better concentration in your body and do a better job of exerting it's effects than just a pulse. Then again i guess this would widely vary depending on the half life of the compound your taking.
I definitely understand not wanting to jack liver values and lipid levels...but I think with proper support you can help mitigate that to an extent
I just think if you're going to take a steroid, then take it! Don't try to walk this middle line where you kind of are or aren't. Do or do not. There is no try.
I definitely understand not wanting to jack liver values and lipid levels...but I think with proper support you can help mitigate that to an extent
I just think if you're going to take a steroid, then take it! Don't try to walk this middle line where you kind of are or aren't. Do or do not. There is no try.
Sourdough
Well-known member
Agreed
jbryand101b
Banned
Sourdough said:
I think you misunderstood my quote, and reflected upon some personal issues there.
If it feels good do it was pertaining to placebo effect thinking you are better pulsing than running a straight cycle at a lowered dose, so if it makes you feel better an do better, do it.
The whole drug and chick thing, well, huh, that sounds like some personal issues going on.
Who knows ill give pulsing a try singe day, see how much better it really is.
Sourdough
Well-known member
nothing personal at all... just my thoughts on that line of reasoning. both supplementation wise and morality wise.
Outside Backer
Well-known member
id like to see bloods on this also, although i think my days of hormones are done
bill86
Active member
no flare ups? a friend of mine ran epi for 3 weeks when he already had a mild case of gyno, he says he quit after week 3 because it 'made his gyno 10x worse'
Smitty77
Board Sponsor
this... i also don't understand the theory and would never advocate for it. when i've used epi, it's taken 10-14 days to "kick in", as it were. combine that with a, what, 6-8 hour half-life? so, what's the point of using a steroid 3 days a week if it never "kicks in" and clears your system 40-42 hours before your next dose?
fadi
Well-known member
Only when I went up to 60mg last week of first cycle. I Second one went with no problems at all going up to 50mg last 2 weeks. Now I plan on sticking with 40mg for most of it and up it last week or two to 50 or so or go to 60 and take something to keep estrogen and prolactin in check.
Patrick Arnold
Featured Author
minimize sustained shutdown. blood tests will show suppression in as little as a day sometimes but its just because LH can react quickly to elevated androgens. its when you get the testicular insensitivity going on that its really an issue
Patrick Arnold
Featured Author
because AAS work through gene expression. Steroids may take a while to kick in but they also take a while for the systems they initiate to ramp down after gone from the blood
they will work by pulsing but will they work well enough to make it worth it. BTW, many tested athletes have been forced to use pulsing type techniques during training. It works, it just obviously doesnt work as well as constant elevation
middleageguy
Member
Ok I see some one saying it will work, maybe not as well, "obviously doesnt work as well as constant elevation" but it will work.
I can say it has been working for me.
I don't want to blow up to quick. I have one guy at work who says it is just amazing the progress I have made. (He has no idea I am using Steroids, no one does besides on anabolicminds and I want to keep it that way)
He says sooner or later I am going to hit a plateau, I can see him almost scratching his head not understanding my progress.
One thing I constantly see over and over. Is that it is reps that keep knocking the pulsing. (Now the reps will rip me a new *azzhole*)
I can tell you that I do take Cycle Support Supplements during my pulses and I also do a mini PCT with Nolvadex/Tamoxifen & PCT-Support after pulses. So you are not missing any sales on me skipping this stuff.
I just want to take a little more time than you guys do, but I still want to use Steroids to aid me. So I chose to pulse Superdrol ( Methyldrostanolone ) . I’ve pulsed M-DROL & Methastadrol and they both worked just fine for me and I have been more than happy with the results.
Ok, I am ready for the reps to rip me a new*azzhole* now, go ahead, you’ve done it before when I have posted about pulsing.
mattrag
Legend
Im no rep for a company but I just wanna say that this pulsing stuff is really interesting. As I understand it, workout time is the best time to pulse because our body goes catabolic. And we are limited to our glycogen storage, circulating blood glucose (for energy) and once all that is gone... goodbye amino acids (our own muscles). While we supposedly build back our muscles we could theoretically build even more if we start off at say 0 than -50 when we start building back with our next meal/bcaas. I think it's pretty sound. provided this doesn't cause us to become catabolic after the pulse through HPGA shut down, or cortisol problems that end up breaking up muscle mass. Also, one thing I worry about while pulsing is the EXTREME stress on the liver, to sustain a workout AND get hit with something methylated. Im just making assumptions here. If you aren't busy I'd like to hear your dosing protocol along with diet/training regime you use through your pulses. Please PM me if you can
Sourdough
Well-known member
mattrag said:Im no rep for a company but I just wanna say that this pulsing stuff is really interesting. As I understand it, workout time is the best time to pulse because our body goes catabolic. And we are limited to our glycogen storage, circulating blood glucose (for energy) and once all that is gone... goodbye amino acids (our own muscles). While we supposedly build back our muscles we could theoretically build even more if we start off at say 0 than -50 when we start building back with our next meal/bcaas. I think it's pretty sound. provided this doesn't cause us to become catabolic after the pulse through HPGA shut down, or cortisol problems that end up breaking up muscle mass. Also, one thing I worry about while pulsing is the EXTREME stress on the liver, to sustain a workout AND get hit with something methylated. Im just making assumptions here. If you aren't busy I'd like to hear your dosing protocol along with diet/training regime you use through your pulses. Please PM me if you can
If you guys go back and read through the ORIGINAL pulsing thread with dr d you'll see an interesting idea, one that I'd be willing to subscribe to.... Pulsing on days off instead of workout days...
You get the benefit of extra anabolism when your body is doing the most muscle building...
I see "benefits" for doing it both ways.... I'd rather just have it both ways at once and cycle all out, lol.
fadi
Well-known member
i missed the pulsing on days off. DrD recommended that?
Sourdough
Well-known member
yes it was one of the suggested methods along the way... i think just about every single possible method was discussed at one point or another honestly but this one stuck out to me as one that had some viable reasoning behind it.
Patrick Arnold
Featured Author
I am not entirely sure i agree with that since steroids take a while to manifest their effects in the muscles. Unlike caffeine or viagra or something which work immediately by affecting cellular targets like enzymes and ion channels, steroids have to intiation gene transcription and the synthesis of new proteins which then go on to affect other systems in the cell etc. etc. This can take a while to ramp up. So taking a steroid probably will not have an immediate effect on anabolism, or at least its full effects will not be seen immediately.
One may argue that 24 hours before a workout might be a better choice
Patrick Arnold
Featured Author
This is very interesting guys. Keep it coming
What would you think the ideal cycle would look like in your opinion?
there is nowhere near enough information to figure out what an ideal cycle would look like. that is why i am posing questions here, rather than act holier than thou by claiming answers
fadi
Well-known member
i will definitely try this next time, thanks for the info! the pulse thread got so big, it was difficult to keep track of it.
middleageguy
Member
Patrick Arnold,
Have you tried pulsing yet? If not you need to try so you can post with experience of a pulse under your belt
From what your saying, if it did hold true, then the pulse I do today will be beneficial to my workout day after tomorrow and the pulse I do day after tomorrow will be beneficial for the next workout and so on and so forth.
I’m a total layman, don’t know the science behind it, I just know the effects I’ve been experiencing and feeling during the pulse cycles I’ve done.
Kind of like, I don’t know why it works, but I see & feel it working, so I don’t question it.
I can say at least with my experience from pulsing Superdrol EOD (Tuesday, Thursday & Saturday) that I don’t start feeling the effects until about the 7[SUP]th[/SUP] pulse day(approximately 2 weeks).
By this time the “rapid uptake of water and glycogen into your muscles” seems to have completed.
Shortly after this a heavier workout can be performed and I will no longer be experience DOMS. It almost seems as if there is a 100% post cycle recovery going on. I know this can not be possible.
Things really start going after the 4[SUP]th[/SUP] into the 5[SUP]th[/SUP] week, muscles are more pumped up and you’re stronger during your workouts. I have to be carful and not be foolish and try to push too much and end up hurting myself, my tendons aren’t any stronger than they were prior.
I continue making progress until I reach the end of the 8[SUP]th[/SUP] week and discontinue the pulse. Then start my abbreviated PCT.
Photos below. Sorry don’t have any photos of the current pulse I’m doing now. Will get some when it is completed.
(2 Photos taken END of 8 Week Pulse of SD.) PULSE #2
07-01-2011
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(Photo Taken About 4[SUP]th[/SUP] week of 8 Week Pulse of SD.) PULSE #2
06-10-2011
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I had my inguinal hernia surgery and was out of the gym for 7 weeks.
(Photo Taken About 2[SUP]nd[/SUP] week of 5 Week Pulse of SD.) PULSE #1
02-25-2011
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01-04-2011 Photo Taken prior to any Steroids after 6 months of weight lifting and loosing 50lbs.
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rampage jackson
Registered User
^^^
Congrats on your progress, but resize those damn pics bro!
Also, have you ran a "traditional" cycle of the same compound?
Congrats on your progress, but resize those damn pics bro!
Also, have you ran a "traditional" cycle of the same compound?
middleageguy
Member
No actually I have only pulsed the SD Superdrol ( Methyldrostanolone) M-DROL & Methastadrol. Not done anything else, and not done a straight cycle.
I bought some H-DROL & M-DROL along with CEL Support Supplements, CEL PCT Supplements & Nolvadex/Tamoxifen and started studding on this board about cycling.
Did all kinds of searches on H-DROL & M-DROL.
Learned M-DROL was a.k.a. for Superdrol which is really named Methasterone (Name given by Syntex Corporation 1956) C21H34O2 (Chemical Name)
Continued searching and learning and came across Dr. D's guide, "How to Pulse Orals".
I studied this for weeks on end, paying particular attention to the SD.
This is a very old but good thread on pulsing, lots about Superdrol
Link ---:> http://anabolicminds.com/forum/stero...lse-orals.html
So I decided to try the pulsing rout. It has been working so well, I don’t know why I would try a straight cycle.
I read all about people having a hard time with the sides doing SD cycles.
I don’t really have any sides pulsing SD, I do have a pimple now and again, but hey I’m not going to complain about a pimple now and again.
Why mess up a good thing, the pulsing is working for me and I am not experiencing any of the sides other complain about and I am see the results I want.
jbryand101b
Banned
ever though about investing in a body trimmer wolf man? you would probably be even more happier with your results with the added visibility you'd get if ya got rid of that lions mane going on all over your torso.
i've never tried pulsing, but i think next time i run superdrol, i will give it a try. see how it goes.
until then, i prefer the full effects of staight cycles.
maybe you should get another bottle of hdrol, and run it every day for 6 weeks, see how you like it.
i've never tried pulsing, but i think next time i run superdrol, i will give it a try. see how it goes.
until then, i prefer the full effects of staight cycles.
maybe you should get another bottle of hdrol, and run it every day for 6 weeks, see how you like it.
middleageguy
Member
Actually I a little older than you, 44 now to be exact and from a different generation, I can remember when the girls would talk about how “that guy” had hair on his chest and just love it.
My wife likes it and that’s all that matters, not shaving, I’m not a porn star.
As for the hdrol, I’ve got more than one bottle. I’ve got enough to run 4 straight cycles of hdrol. Maybe some day I will do a straight cycle of it, because as I understand it can not be pulsed. Hdrol has too long of a half life and it has to convert in your system; it is not active like SD.
For now I will just continue with my pulsing the SD I have on hand.
Like they say: If its not broke don’t fix it.
rampage jackson
Registered User
I wasn't trying to push you one direction or the other. I was just curious as to if you'd tried a "standard" cycle for comparisons sake. If you're having results and maintaining a consistency, then more power to ya!
And FWIW, I think I posted in the Dr. D thread back in the day.
jbryand101b
Banned
totally understand, my father is from a different generation than you, he's 54, and shaves his chest/arms/legs. it must of skipped a generation.
or maybe it's a bodybuilder thing that non budybuilders dont get.
but if your wife likes it, hey, happy wife, happy life. just no more result pics, please!
oh, and hd is active, it wont bind as stongly to the ar as turinabol, but it can.
w/e does convert will be very little, if any at all.
fadi
Well-known member
I'm hairy as well, but i would never think of shaving my chest. I just feel naked. I tried magic shaving powder few years back, I looked like I was ran over by a lawn mower. couldn't wait till the hair grew back.
fadi
Well-known member
I came off injury where I stopped working out for 6 months (tears in both wrists due to reverse grip pull down for tri and couldn't even drive without pain in my wrists, being old and not flexible sucks). I dropped In weight alot. I did 10 week epi pulse every other day and gained 16lbs. it may sound great, but it is mainly size I lost. strength went up, weight went up. gained little fat sadly, but nothing major really.
Stared using osta during weeks 9-10 and post cycle, been 5 weeks so far. weight went up about 3-4 lbs and strength finally started to taper off. will run osta for another week or two. the major side of osta is loss of libido. I don't "feel" shutdown, but with no libido, makes me think I am.
I will be running AnaBeta after osta for a month or two. I would like to see what it does after this cycle.
After that, I want to cut. Still trying to decide on a cut. thinking of pulse Epi with 11-oxo daily for 10 weeks, Epi and Furuza (no idea why it is considered cutting compound, I haven't seen anything showing impact on fat storage), or running all 3 with lower dose of 11-oxo amd Furuza. I am also keeping an eye on Ursobolic, hopefully by that time more feedback will be out.
Stared using osta during weeks 9-10 and post cycle, been 5 weeks so far. weight went up about 3-4 lbs and strength finally started to taper off. will run osta for another week or two. the major side of osta is loss of libido. I don't "feel" shutdown, but with no libido, makes me think I am.
I will be running AnaBeta after osta for a month or two. I would like to see what it does after this cycle.
After that, I want to cut. Still trying to decide on a cut. thinking of pulse Epi with 11-oxo daily for 10 weeks, Epi and Furuza (no idea why it is considered cutting compound, I haven't seen anything showing impact on fat storage), or running all 3 with lower dose of 11-oxo amd Furuza. I am also keeping an eye on Ursobolic, hopefully by that time more feedback will be out.
jbryand101b
Banned
lol, magic shaving powder eh? that must of been interesting.
different strokes for different folks!
different strokes for different folks!
middleageguy
Member
Amino Acids & other Supplements beneficial, during the cycle?
jbryand101b,
I have a question for you as I think you should be more of an authority to answer it for me.
When doing a cycle of SD or HD or whatever your cycling.
If one takes (Amino Acids such as BCAA Leucine 4:1:1 ratio) or (Creapure Creatine) or (HMB supplement) or (MSM , methylsulfonylmethane), or possibly takes all of these during a cycle.
Are these supplements beneficial, during the cycle?
What I’m asking is will the gains be greater if the above are taken during a cycle of whatever?
Or are they just a waist of money to be taken during a cycle and only a quality source of protein is needed to be taken during the cycle?
Baring of course the necessity to take Cycle Assist Supplement for your liver and blood pressure.
jbryand101b,
I have a question for you as I think you should be more of an authority to answer it for me.
When doing a cycle of SD or HD or whatever your cycling.
If one takes (Amino Acids such as BCAA Leucine 4:1:1 ratio) or (Creapure Creatine) or (HMB supplement) or (MSM , methylsulfonylmethane), or possibly takes all of these during a cycle.
Are these supplements beneficial, during the cycle?
What I’m asking is will the gains be greater if the above are taken during a cycle of whatever?
Or are they just a waist of money to be taken during a cycle and only a quality source of protein is needed to be taken during the cycle?
Baring of course the necessity to take Cycle Assist Supplement for your liver and blood pressure.
jbryand101b
Banned
I believe they are.
but I dont know of any data based evidence showing it is more benificial using supplements on cycle than not.
but I dont know of any data based evidence showing it is more benificial using supplements on cycle than not.
AtomicFox
Active member
I am currently on a pulse and I am in week 2. I am using 40mg Epistane first thing in the morning on my off days. At night before bed I am using Sustain Alpha and Testforce-2. My testicles haven't shrunk a bit, and I am normally prone to that side effect. Actually they seem bigger, which is probably to the SA and TF. So far it feels great