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Election of 2012....Who ya got?

As much as I like Ron Paul he truly has no chance. I'll probably still vote for him as he is closest to what I think we need (though I don't support all his positions), but he will never capture the Republican nomination and without that he can't win. Everyone knows this (including him).
 
seccsi said:
As much as I like Ron Paul he truly has no chance. I'll probably still vote for him as he is closest to what I think we need (though I don't support all his positions), but he will never capture the Republican nomination and without that he can't win. Everyone knows this (including him).
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I think if he doesnt get elected by the republicans that he may then use his momentum to run as a 3rd party candidate, which I hope so or Im simply not voting for anybody.

I think he has a chance, its different this time around, although his chance is small.
 
Romney or Perry pleeeeeeeeeease !!!!!!! I need to make some money ! Im goin broke paying for welfare recipients.
 
ken22 said:
Romney or Perry pleeeeeeeeeease !!!!!!! I need to make some money ! Im goin broke paying for welfare recipients.
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Do you really think they are going to end welfare? Or if they end it you pay less taxes?
 
I was being a little synical. But 1 I think either one of these canidates can spur economical growth better than any other and most definately better than current admin. 2 i understand we have to have welfare to some extent. id rather give a bumb $10 than have him stealing my ****, but reform is due. our system pays you more not to work than aiding in poverty for people trying to work but still falling. This would reflect the phrase " A hand up rather than a hand out" which our current system works just the opposite. Taxes ? Flat percentage, income or sales, is the only fair way to tax regardless of where it goes.
 
ken22 said:
I was being a little synical. But 1 I think either one of these canidates can spur economical growth better than any other and most definately better than current admin. 2 i understand we have to have welfare to some extent. id rather give a bumb $10 than have him stealing my ****, but reform is due. our system pays you more not to work than aiding in poverty for people trying to work but still falling. This would reflect the phrase " A hand up rather than a hand out" which our current system works just the opposite. Taxes ? Flat percentage, income or sales, is the only fair way to tax regardless of where it goes.
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There will be no difference if either of those 2 get it, except Perry is a religious nut. Good luck with that.
 
ken22 said:
I was being a little synical. But 1 I think either one of these canidates can spur economical growth better than any other and most definately better than current admin. 2 i understand we have to have welfare to some extent. id rather give a bumb $10 than have him stealing my ****, but reform is due. our system pays you more not to work than aiding in poverty for people trying to work but still falling. This would reflect the phrase " A hand up rather than a hand out" which our current system works just the opposite. Taxes ? Flat percentage, income or sales, is the only fair way to tax regardless of where it goes.
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When it comes to policy there is no difference whatsover between Obama and Perry. Both will be funded by the same people. Both will have all the wars....both say one thing and do another, both will obey to the UN, both will yo-yo the economy, both will futher fuel the police state in America, I can go on and on. Why do I say so? Well there is no difference between George Bush and Barrack Obama, their policies of war and corporatism are all the same.

There is no such thing as a fair tax. Income tax is unconstitutional and is a way to incorporate modern day slavery in America. A man who doesnt own his own labor is a slave. To ask for a fair income tax is like saying I want to be fairly treated as a slave. Each and every one of us are 25-50% slaves in this country. You can say the immigrants working off the books are the true free people in a weird way.
 
Cannot get behind any of the crop of candidates out there right now,but I don`t think this country can survive another 4 years of Obama.This guy took a really bad situation and made it much worse.He really needs to drop his "Go Green" agenda.
 
Conagher said:
Cannot get behind any of the crop of candidates out there right now,but I don`t think this country can survive another 4 years of Obama.This guy took a really bad situation and made it much worse.He really needs to drop his "Go Green" agenda.
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If McCain was president the same thing would have happened. This is just a continuous problem, reaction, solution. Republicans make people go crazy, so they think Democrats will make things better. Democrats make people go crazy, so now back to the republicans. No difference. Barry Soetoro aka Obama has little influence on economic policy. If you want to know who is making economic policy follow the money. The money trail leads to the bankers, corporations, Bildeberger group, Counsel on Foreign Relations, Ti-lateral commission, etc....the same people that supported Obama, supported Bush, and will support the next president who ever that is.
 
ax1 said:
If McCain was president the same thing would have happened. This is just a continuous problem, reaction, solution. Republicans make people go crazy, so they think Democrats will make things better. Democrats make people go crazy, so now back to the republicans. No difference. Barry Soetoro aka Obama has little influence on economic policy. If you want to know who is making economic policy follow the money. The money trail leads to the bankers, corporations, Bildeberger group, Counsel on Foreign Relations, Ti-lateral commission, etc....the same people that supported Obama, supported Bush, and will support the next president who ever that is.
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Agreed.In the words of George Carlin,forget about the politicians,they are there to give us the illusion that we have a choice.We don`t.The Congress,Senate,and Presidency were bought by the true owners of this Country a long time ago,and what the true owners want is more for them and less for us.
 
ax1 said:
I think if he doesnt get elected by the republicans that he may then use his momentum to run as a 3rd party candidate, which I hope so or Im simply not voting for anybody.

I think he has a chance, its different this time around, although his chance is small.
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I really wish you were right, I just don't see it in the least bit. He probably will run as a 3rd party candidate if he doesn't get the Republican nomination. I think he has no chance of getting the Republican nod and as a 3rd party candidate he won't carry even a single state.

I wish this wasn't the case, but I would bet insane amounts of money on Ron Paul not getting the Republican nod and then I would turn around and bet insane amounts of money on him not carrying a state if he goes third party.

I'll probably vote for him either way, but honestly I don't think anything is "different" this time around in regards to a libertarian.
 
seccsi said:
I'll probably vote for him either way, but honestly I don't think anything is "different" this time around in regards to a libertarian.
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Maybe...but then again there is a big tea party movement that was started by him that is gaining momentum. Unfortunately it was quickly hijacked by Sarah Palin and CNN had her on TV making a speach portraying her as head of the movement which is a farce and the movement is only a hijack for those looking for political gain. Now Michelle Bracknomandsland hijacked it, and we have Perry and also Newt Gingrich both acting like Ron Paul to pick up anything Ron Paul was for but only to lie and twist things around.

A vote is a vote...its all about losing over and over again until we win...even if you never win.
 
ken22 said:
Ron Paul started the Tea Party? I believe it was Glenn Beck
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Glenn Beck is phoney trader, he did not start anything. He is just a CIA operative, just like Chris Mathews and Anderson Cooper both are. All Glenn was trying to do is copy Alex Jones and twist and distort everything. He had a whole crew following Alex Jones taking notes on everything every day and he would touch on similar issues only to deceive the mainstream audience.
 
Dont get me wrong, I think Beck is a joke, but we need to remove the tinfoil hats.&; Alex Jones is not someone to be trusted.
 
AE14 said:
Dont get me wrong, I think Beck is a joke, but we need to remove the tinfoil hats.&; Alex Jones is not someone to be trusted.
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I dont trust anyone, and around the clock skepticism is cool, but Ive been listening to Alex Jones for several years now and he has been on the mark with most of the stuff he speaks about.
 
ax1 said:
Glenn Beck is phoney trader, he did not start anything. He is just a CIA operative, just like Chris Mathews and Anderson Cooper both are. All Glenn was trying to do is copy Alex Jones and twist and distort everything. He had a whole crew following Alex Jones taking notes on everything every day and he would touch on similar issues only to deceive the mainstream audience.
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You Are A Quack!
 
AE14 said:
Well played good sir
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Amen..lol

So I was looking into what Herman Cain was about, he almost seemed like an outsider. So far I found out that he supported the bailouts, and that he was chairman of the (private) Federal Reserve bank branch in Kansas City which is something that deeply concerns me about this candidate. I however dont believe he has any chance anyways thought Id point this out.
 
Cain is fun to listen to, and comes off as truly interested in fixing the problems, not just saying there are problems (which the rest seem to do). He has no shot, even less than Paul. Right now it will come down to Romney or Perry imo.
 
AE14 said:
Cain is fun to listen to, and comes off as truly interested in fixing the problems, not just saying there are problems (which the rest seem to do). He has no shot, even less than Paul. Right now it will come down to Romney or Perry imo.
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Are you sure you dont wanna say it will come down to Romney, Perry or Obama? Unless you meant just the Repub race of course.

I gotta say, Bush's re-election was more shocking to me than Buster knocking Tyson.
 
ax1 said:
Are you sure you dont wanna say it will come down to Romney, Perry or Obama? Unless you meant just the Repub race of course.

I gotta say, Bush's re-election was more shocking to me than Buster knocking Tyson.
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I meant the repub side.

I was not overly stunned, but greatly disappointed
 
Due to race, I will be surprised if Obama loses. It frustrates me that the left doesn't educate themselves on issues and vote on feelings. Even though Obama is the worst president in US history, most Blacks will still vote for him.
 
the worst in history? Seems you are using a small sample size to gauge you evidence. Everyone has an opinion I suppose.

I agree he has not been as many thought, but worst ever is foolish. As are the generalizations in your statement
 
AE14 said:
the worst in history? Seems you are using a small sample size to gauge you evidence. Everyone has an opinion I suppose.

I agree he has not been as many thought, but worst ever is foolish. As are the generalizations in your statement
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At least he has some time left in his term...or 2nd term to try to really top the charts.
 
AE14 said:
the worst in history? Seems you are using a small sample size to gauge you evidence. Everyone has an opinion I suppose.

I agree he has not been as many thought, but worst ever is foolish. As are the generalizations in your statement
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According to the '08 exit polls my "generalizations" aren't foolish. 96% of Black voters voted for Obama. If it had been only 85%, then I would say race wasn't an issue.
 
omni said:
According to the '08 exit polls my "generalizations" aren't foolish. 96% of Black voters voted for Obama. If it had been only 85%, then I would say race wasn't an issue.
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The black people in my gym dont even consider Obama black. I asked them how they felt after Obama won and they "didnt care because he not even black." It wasnt a black victory to them in any way.
 
omni said:
According to the '08 exit polls my "generalizations" aren't foolish. 96% of Black voters voted for Obama. If it had been only 85%, then I would say race wasn't an issue.
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Its actually not that dramatic...in 2008 only 64% of blacks were registered to vote, so 36% didnt even care to register to vote for Obama....Doing math on top of my head Obama only got a 60% turnout of blacks supporting him if your 95% number is actually correct. You dont have to vote to show you disprove of him.
 
ax1 said:
Its actually not that dramatic...in 2008 only 64% of blacks were registered to vote, so 36% didnt even care to register to vote for Obama....Doing math on top of my head Obama only got a 60% turnout of blacks supporting him if your 95% number is actually correct. You dont have to vote to show you disprove of him.
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True but, more Black voters registered in '08 vs '04. In '04 Kerry only had something like 87% of the Black vote. I'm just saying that if the same 96% vote again for Obama, they're voting according to race. If there were only white candidates again less would turn out- like in '04 and previous years. - I think Obama will win again.
 
omni said:
True but, more Black voters registered in '08 vs '04. In '04 Kerry only had something like 87% of the Black vote. I'm just saying that if the same 96% vote again for Obama, they're voting according to race. If there were only white candidates again less would turn out- like in '04 and previous years. - I think Obama will win again.
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I dunno...Ive heard of black people coming out and turning against Obama, and that he has not supported the black communities...so possible he may have lost support over the last couple years.

I do think Obama has a chance at pulling this off, but not because of the black vote, but the fact his he rose 1+Billion dollars for the election already. Money and marketing power buys elections most of the time.
 
I almost wish Donald Trump was running just for more entertainment value out of these debates.
 
ax1 said:
I almost wish Donald Trump was running just for more entertainment value out of these debates.
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i love watching him and Cain.

they have a practical business approach, instead of a political bull**** approach.
 
At this point the republicans have a "clown car" going on. Ron Paul makes the most sense and gets the least out of it except when others are parroting things that he has said in the past.
 
Fastone said:
At this point the republicans have a "clown car" going on. Ron Paul makes the most sense and gets the least out of it except when others are parroting things that he has said in the past.
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He looks like he dominated everybody again...Id be interested in seeing if he did as well on the CNN poll as he did the NBC poll last.
 
Paul dominated last night? He looked like an angry, feeble old man having a tantrum.
 
Fastone said:
At this point the republicans have a "clown car" going on. Ron Paul makes the most sense and gets the least out of it except when others are parroting things that he has said in the past.
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you know I hate agreeing with you, but yet again I do. I want to beat Perry with a bat, wish Bachman would stop talking entirely, and Santorum is just too Mr Rodgers to go anywhere.

Its a tossup as to who is more electible in the general election, romney or paul. Paul from a concept point as well as consistency point, but he has the negatives of old white man plus career politician. And a lot of what he says frightens people partially because they don't understand. Disband FEMA? yep, its unconstitutional. Does that mean the federal government will ignore a state in crisis? No, block grants of $ to a state to deal with a crisis doesn't require a vast federal department who tells the state how to handle its own crisis.
 
AE14 said:
Paul dominated last night? He looked like an angry, feeble old man having a tantrum.
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I dont pay attention to their behaviors nor do I look for someone who presents themselves as "presidential" I just make myself tone def and blind and listen to their message. As far as Im concerned, unless I missed something Ron Paul is the only anti-war candidate.
 
EasyEJL said:
you know I hate agreeing with you, but yet again I do. I want to beat Perry with a bat, wish Bachman would stop talking entirely, and Santorum is just too Mr Rodgers to go anywhere.

Its a tossup as to who is more electible in the general election, romney or paul. Paul from a concept point as well as consistency point, but he has the negatives of old white man plus career politician. And a lot of what he says frightens people partially because they don't understand. Disband FEMA? yep, its unconstitutional. Does that mean the federal government will ignore a state in crisis? No, block grants of $ to a state to deal with a crisis doesn't require a vast federal department who tells the state how to handle its own crisis.
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We talked about this before how the media promotes Pecky and Ramknee and ignores the other candidates. Seems like they took this to another level.

I looked for CNN's online poll to see what viewers thought won the debate and to see if Ron Paul dominated again, and the online poll is....

"Quick vote"
"Did Rick Perry's debate performance solidify his front-runner status for the GOP presidential nomination?"

Well, good news is 77% said no (20,000 votes to 6,000)
 
You might personally agree with him Ax, but he does not resonate with that base, which was evident with his 9-11 comments and the crowd reaction. He has no shot.

Perry looked silly up there, as did many others. Although I do not care for Newt, he carried himself quite well.
 
AE14 said:
You might personally agree with him Ax, but he does not resonate with that base, which was evident with his 9-11 comments and the crowd reaction. He has no shot.

Perry looked silly up there, as did many others. Although I do not care for Newt, he carried himself quite well.
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Im certainly hoping he is not trying to resonate with that base (edit: although Id hope some day that base goes through drastic changes.) The base Im looking after is a growing process. I think more people support his 9/11 comments that what the people in the audience tried to show, but I understand alot of people have problems when they are being told the contrary to what they have been fed over and over again the past decade.
 
ax1 said:
Im certainly hoping he is not trying to resonate with that base (edit: although Id hope some day that base goes through drastic changes.) The base Im looking after is a growing process. I think more people support his 9/11 comments that what the people in the audience tried to show, but I understand alot of people have problems when they are being told the contrary to what they have been fed over and over again the past decade.
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Just to clarify what I meant...Im certainly hoping Ron Paul sticks to his ethical standards instead of catering and trying to resonate with the base just to try to win votes, support and the election. The same way Obama catered to liberals with his socialist views, and anti-war views only then to be a straight corporatist/fascist pro-war president.
 
To me, other than Romney (and he's a fraud) I don't expect any of these candidates to be around when the fun really gets going. Someone will need to "rise up" from obscurity to make this interesting
 
AE14 said:
the worst in history? Seems you are using a small sample size to gauge you evidence. Everyone has an opinion I suppose.

I agree he has not been as many thought, but worst ever is foolish. As are the generalizations in your statement
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Well, the most inexperienced and most irresponsible. Only time will tell if the consequences for these things will merit him to be "the worst ever". Wilson is up there on my crap list because he initiated the socialist movement with the 17th amendment. Panzy president...not look what we've got to deal with.
 
omni said:
Due to race, I will be surprised if Obama loses. It frustrates me that the left doesn't educate themselves on issues and vote on feelings. Even though Obama is the worst president in US history, most Blacks will still vote for him.
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I completely agree! if Obama gets another term in I'll be gone from this country for good by the end of his 2nd term. By then this country will have "crossed the threshold" into a socialist state and will likely never return to natural rights philosophy, which is what this country was founded upon via the constitution. Everything that makes this country great will disappear into the past if we keep moving in this direction. Perhaps I'll get lucky and another country will embrace our constitution in it's original purpose and form when all of this goes down.
 
fueledpassion said:
I completely agree! if Obama gets another term in I'll be gone from this country for good by the end of his 2nd term. By then this country will have "crossed the threshold" into a socialist state and will likely never return to natural rights philosophy, which is what this country was founded upon via the constitution. Everything that makes this country great will disappear into the past if we keep moving in this direction. Perhaps I'll get lucky and another country will embrace our constitution in it's original purpose and form when all of this goes down.
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Then maybe you should leave now, now you're upset because he isn't doing what you want. We spent 8 years being bamboozeld,led into BS wars that we're still paying dearly for, having a bunch of personal freedoms taken away with the BS "Patriot Act", Please
 
Obama is socialist as well as most democrats for that matter. All I have to say study history and look for success in communism and socialism. You might be searching for a while! It doesnt work but is still easy to understand why many congressman and presidents favor it- it further benefits those in government power while destroying the rest of the country! Its a perfect fit for greed and power. Also, I'd also like to point out that both Hitler and Stalin took this very same approach of "giving the power to the federal government". They were both crazy, power hungry, and ultimately became known as the world's greatest mass murderers in the name of socialism. Keep that in mind as u scream "hail Obama!" All I'm saying is that if Obama and the democrats take our country down this path, well, it's a path that I will not follow them into. And surely, there are at least a few million that agree with me who are mainly the educated natural rights individuals. And also, if the previous cabinet is to blame for whatever it is u r saying, then that must also mean that the cabinet previous to George W. is to blame for the credit crisis since it was Clinton's office that gave poor credit holders the right to move up a class via borrowing bank money. Nevermind those in that class were there not because of the rich oppressing the poor but rather because of their irresponsibility with finances. Just study a bit. It's all available for everyone to learn about...
 
fueledpassion said:
Obama is socialist as well as most democrats for that matter. All I have to say study history and look for success in communism and socialism. You might be searching for a while! It doesnt work but is still easy to understand why many congressman and presidents favor it- it further benefits those in government power while destroying the rest of the country! Its a perfect fit for greed and power. Also, I'd also like to point out that both Hitler and Stalin took this very same approach of "giving the power to the federal government". They were both crazy, power hungry, and ultimately became known as the world's greatest mass murderers in the name of socialism. Keep that in mind as u scream "hail Obama!" All I'm saying is that if Obama and the democrats take our country down this path, well, it's a path that I will not follow them into. And surely, there are at least a few million that agree with me who are mainly the educated natural rights individuals. And also, if the previous cabinet is to blame for whatever it is u r saying, then that must also mean that the cabinet previous to George W. is to blame for the credit crisis since it was Clinton's office that gave poor credit holders the right to move up a class via borrowing bank money. Nevermind those in that class were there not because of the rich oppressing the poor but rather because of their irresponsibility with finances. Just study a bit. It's all available for everyone to learn about...
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I dont think Obama is a socialist, there is no evidence of that although he was marketed that way. He is a straight corporatist.

I do see your references to handing over more power to the govermnet...his extension of the patriot act, letting TSA turn the country into a police state, expansion of FEMA concentration camps (H.R. 645,) his executive orders and expanded wars evidence this.

I think where you are really wrong is that you are viewing this as a democrat vs. republican approach. There is very little difference between the two, they are basically the same party. We can take China for example, and take their government and create China red and China blue, let people vote and end up with the same people in power for example. Its all a continuation of Dems fixing Repubs and Repubs fixing Dems, they take turns fixing the issues of this country, but instead continuing it.

You can say that Obama is Bush's 3rd term, and if Perry, Cain, Romeny win they will be Bush's 4th term. Hillary Clinton can win it 5 years from now and it will be Bush's 5th term.

Its an endless hijack of this current 1 party "Duopoly" political system, you will not see change and these politicians (most of them) all work for the banks, corporations and other private interests, the rest of us are just serfs.
 
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