Sure, any math that doesn't agree with how you feel must obviously be wrong. Teachers have it easy for the money they get paid for the hours they have to work. The reason people aren't agressively fighting for those jobs? They'd rather have the more cash today in their pocket than work the less hours, or know they'll have guaranteed retirement.
And any math that agrees with how you feel must be right?
The hours you have to work are the hours you have to work, and the pay you get for them is commensurate for that number of hours. Saying teachers are low paid vs the private industry is a joke if you don't take into account days and hours worked. If the position wasn't salaried but hourly instead, the diference would be pretty apparent. Attacking me because of a post count doesn't change the dollars paid per hour worked, sorry.
I would LOVE to be paid by the hour. If I got paid by the hour for the average bachelor degree I would be making a ton more. The fact is I work a TON of hours for low pay. The contract is contracted time to be in the building. The extra amount of hours it takes to do the job is quite high. I'm surprised you don't know this, but then again how could I expect you to know that? You've never been a teacher. And attacking me because of my profession won't change that. So have a good one.
How many people go to church means nothing. Being religious means squat as well. When I was referring to a man after God's own heart, I was referring to someone who isnt religious, who isnt judgmental, who genuinely gives a crap and prefers to do good over evil. Someone whose god isn't money...This is ultimately what the New Testament Christian is called to be like - someone that everyone can appreciate, whether ur an atheist or a God-fearing man. I'm simly saying that we have to have someone in there that does not let the love of money and power (greed) dictate his/her actions and decisions. Its that simple really. No need to get upset. If u disagree, well ok. It certainly wont make me waver in my opinion. I'm just defending what I see to be upright and fair and I'm simply looking for a presidential candidate the closely fits this image. BTW- atheism is under-represented for two reasons. 1) The Holy Bible is allowed in prison and is circulated in prisons. 2) The prison ministry is a common target for missionaries. Thus, meaning that there arent so many atheist in prison to begin with. Maybe they started out that way, but most were probably agnostic really..
Can you explain how we validate this person? So far between Catholics "Hide the pedophile priests" and all the other different scams and controversies in other religions where exactly we'll get someone we can be sure isn't just another huge douchebag wearing a frock and carrying a big cross?
At least here I agree with you, although i'm not entirely sure whether there is a correlation relationship vs causal there. We don't need a fake prophet talking head, we've had plenty of that through history, actually our last 2 presidents are fine examples.
Lolz
you and i both know that this is not entirely accurate. I know in Pa, a tenured teacher is two unsatisfactory reviews away from being let go
Easy, you and I have talked about this before, and you are totally in the wrong here. Teachers get paid far less, and work many, many unpaid hours which is "required" for the job. I have spent more time (chaperoning, watching film for football, sitting on buses, prepping my classrooms in the summer, etc...) than I care to count.
Could there be a republican bias in the media? against one of their own? :lol:
The problem is that he's a libertarian, and has been consistent his whole career. Nobody in the media likes that.
The problem isn't individual teachers, its the special interest group of the teachers union as a whole. There are great individual teachers, many of whom deserve making more than they do. But there is a majority of mediocre teachers, and a significant portion that are a total drain on the system. Sadly of course, the worst tend to end up on the inner city schools, making the problems there worse.
I gotta give you credit...this made me laugh.
You do understand the major drawbacks for merit based pay and why it has never worked in education right?
I'd like to know when and where it was tried, as both have bearing. And I would not in the slightest put it past the union to purposefully sabotage it. But for the union to disallow the teachers to even vote on it shows the culture and character of the union officials.
Gross as I like the guy a lot. The problem is he is for a lot of things Republicans hate. He isn't afraid to call out the hypocrisy of them saying they are small government but using big government tactics in regards to woman's health rights, gays, drugs, etc. Watch him during a debate. At least half the things he is for the rank and file Republicans are against. He is actually small government when most of the right just gives small government lip service. Republicans on the whole are only small government on the stuff they don't want, they want huge government for everything else. He basically calls them out on that and as such can't win and isn't a true player.
Designing a merit based system that works would be next to impossible. Some schools are filled with kids coming from great families who are going to do well in school no matter who teaches them. Some schools are filled with kids coming from crap families who are likely going to struggle or not care no matter who teaches them. Salaries are going to be based on kids taking high stakes test? What if the kid in my school got high the night before? What if his dad beat the crap out of him? What if he hasn't been read to until he started public school? The lion's den is basically never ending.
This is spot on though I'm jealous of you being able to leave anywhere near 4. Out of 187 contract days this year I bet I get to leave before 4 around 25 of them
I also plan on spending at least 5 hours at school each weekend as with coaching I have to do all my planning and grading on the weekends. During football season I'm usually at the school around 12 hours except for on days we have JV or varsity games where I can be at the school sometimes as much as 16. And then be at Saturday practice/film as well. Never a dull moment!
The problem with so many teachers is that they are teaching in the same government institution they received their own education from.
You don't test vs generic averages, you test vs that same schools prior year performance. If that school's average for 5th graders was 20% reading at grade level, and in 6th grade you bring that up to 25%, that's a great improvement. If that school had 85% at grade level and you brought it to 90 that's great improvement. Any individual schools demographics don't change much year to year, so your argument is invalid. Saying "there's no good way to measure it" mostly means its primarily snake oil sales.
You're ignoring a lot of the factors that go into that improvement though. What if 5 of my 20 10th graders get into drugs? What if Dad gets back from the war and starts making Susie read? These type of things have an impact and they are beyond a teachers control. Not to mention you have a lot of problems with the making of tests. You're still relying on students taking high stakes test for the salary of someone else.
It as used in NYC for a while in 2007 I believe and failed miserably.
I remember early in my career doing the coaching. Wrestling and football took most of my life. The joke in my house is that i missed most of my daughters first 6 months.This is spot on though I'm jealous of you being able to leave anywhere near 4. Out of 187 contract days this year I bet I get to leave before 4 around 25 of them
Sorry for all the posts. Each year, teachers get a different crop of students that are the true wild card. I have had years where students would have succeeded regardless of what I did in the classroom, and other years where the students struggled no matter how many efforts I put in to alter and assist. You can never account for what you will get in your classroom at the start of every september
I bet the quality of teaching would significantly go up if teachers school scheduled was cut in half at the same pay rate (or even more imo.) Also, you would have more jobs and more people wanting to teach.I remember early in my career doing the coaching. Wrestling and football took most of my life. The joke in my house is that i missed most of my daughters first 6 months.
Really? Because test scores don't show that. Schools are pretty consistent across the 300-500 students in each grade level since the neighborhood demographics don't change that fast. I guess in a small school with less students there would be more variation.
Well, if you are like most post elementary teachers, you have 6 classes of 25ish students per semester, for somewhere between 150-600 total students a year? Do you think that 5 students going on drugs, or one whose dad dies at war affects the aggregate average of all students in a statistically significant way? The math doesn't seem like it would. And beyond that, is the number of students going on drugs this year all that different than last year? Usually its not.
Then how do you measure success? Saying "trust us as educations, we'll tell you how successful we are" is crazy, and nothing in the rest of the world works that way. If change in performance of your students isn't the metric, what is your goal as a teacher? just jam them into the next grade?
Well, again, much of the time what is talked about is merit based bonuses, not direct merit based pay. Teachers would still keep their base salary, but teachers who excel would get paid higher.
Like i said above, success is based on improvement in skills in the same group of students. If you don't define success as that, what is your goal as a teacher? Special ed is no different, just the margins of improvement you expect are smaller.
you know better than this. You cant use test scores to determine how good or bad a teacher is. What about ICS classes (Special Ed. inclusion)? Or better yet, who designs the assessment, what is to be on the assessment, or how do you avoid teachers just teaching to the assessment?
Why can't you use test scores? Again, taken as an aggregate of the 300 students you probably teach a year, and that neighborhood demographics don't change rapidly other than from natural disasters, what happens with the outlier students doesn't change much year to year, and doesn't change the overall statistics significantly.
but this is the problem. They do change, quite frequently. I can give you numbers from students I have had, who, come from the same socio0economic background, and similar family structures. However, their results are entirely different. That is the beauty of education, every september is a clean slate.
I dont disagree that there are many in the union who are criminals. I am thrilled to be out of the teachers union, however, once the door is opened to merit based pay, it opens it up to being a way to assess a teachers performance and in turn, teachers losing jobs.
Honestly, same school statistics don't support that. the percentage change at a given school year to year stays inside a fairly small factor given the number of students. Again, I am talking about larger schools, an k-8 elementary school with only 200 students total definitely would show some significant variation.
But we're not talking about merit based PAY, but merit based bonuses. no change to existing salary - so no loss the mediocre and crappy teachers, just rewarding ones who improve the students more than the norm for that school.I dont disagree that there are many in the union who are criminals. I am thrilled to be out of the teachers union, however, once the door is opened to merit based pay, it opens it up to being a way to assess a teachers performance and in turn, teachers losing jobs.
IMO, the only way to truly assess teachers is to refine tenure, not get rid of it. Make a portfolio for 3-5 years, and have colleagues and administrators who have observed the teacher sit down and review the portfolio. From their they make the recommendation for renewal of tenure, or dismissal. I totally agree that there are horrible teachers out there who completely take advantage of tenure. However, they are the minority, at least in my district.
I can tell you, from being in the meetings, that most administrators and teachers truly want whats best for the students and are willing to bend over backwards for them, and deal with all the issues that come with students and their parents
I suppose I can see that. In the same shoes though, I think i'd still be for it, as in the long run it would weed out the dead weight at schools instead of them playing "pass the lemon" in moving lousy teachers from district to district just to avoid them teaching in the same school too long and collecting too many complaints there.
I agree about the dead wood. THat is why tenure reform is needed. However it cannot be based on test scores, it has to be another means of assessment
Yeah I would say it's significant. You add in factors that can throw off a high stakes test like a lack of sleep, poor nutrition, what happened the night before, a kids apathy (my pay is being based on how Johnny don't care sophomore does when he fills out all c's), etc. I'm for what you are proposing...if only I thought it could accurately reflect good teaching. Take your kindergarten teacher who deserved double. What if you knew she was doing an amazing job and the data didn't support that? What if she was dropped in pay because of these factors? What if she was fired based on the fact that a third grader was abused the night before and he was the one kid that pushed her scores down?
I think the media is largely ignoring Ron Paul due to their corporate interests, and that Ron Paul actually has close to the actual popular vote.
such a nightmarish thought
i'd tend to agree. heck with his stance on war + marijuana, he'd get tons of democrat votes
But democrats support "humanitarian" wars right? We wouldnt want to stop bombing the crap out of countries that are already killing each other, thats not right.i'd tend to agree. heck with his stance on war + marijuana, he'd get tons of democrat votes
That I know, but why do democrats keep supporting and voting for war time candidates? We have Bush who went to war in Iraq, but he consulted congress (although that doesnt say much, lol), then we have dictator Obama using executive powers to go to wars yet many democrats are fooled by this "humanitarian" baloney. Come on, if Libya's main export was watermelons we would not be there.
If he was a 3rd party candidate he wouldnt have no chance at all. He wouldnt be involved in any of the debates and getting as much national attention. He already is a 3rd party candidate, he is just playing the system to his advantage.
| Thread starter | Similar threads | Forum | Replies | Date |
|---|---|---|---|---|
| Low dose test cycle for army officer selection prep | Anabolics | 21 | ||
| SARM Selection | Anabolics | 18 | ||
|
Great Selection of Nootropics | Strong Supplement Shop | 1 | |
|
Pre workout selection | Supplements | 45 | |
|
Aromatase inhibitor selection help | Post Cycle Therapy | 14 |