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Milk Thistle hurts gains on cycle?

rayactr2k6

rayactr2k6

Member
I've heard that milk thistle can hurt gains? I don't want to destroy my liver, so what do I do about liver protection for my SD?
 
AndroShred (sd) clone comes with 325mg of milk thistle, plus im taking 2x 5ml of liver juice daily, I thought that it was just a myth.
I mean I took Liver juice with both my Hdrol cycles and got some nice gains on both cycles.
 
The theory is that mt makes your ph/as less potent. A common solution is to dose milk thistle in between ph/as doses. Not at the same time and separate the two as much as possible.
 
bakerderek0 said:
The theory is that mt makes your ph/as less potent. A common solution is to dose milk thistle in between ph/as doses. Not at the same time and separate the two as much as possible.
Click to expand...

Ok cool thats what I was thinking about doing. I've also heard you can load it pre-cycle, go off it during, and get back on for PCT. Would this be less advisable?
 
Yes, preloading is smart. Not only for mt, but Hawthorne is shown to first increase bp before it lowers bp. I assume your gonna use cycle support or cycle assist. I would preload for 1 week.
 
bakerderek0 said:
Yes, preloading is smart. Not only for mt, but Hawthorne is shown to first increase bp before it lowers bp. I assume your gonna use cycle support or cycle assist. I would preload for 1 week.
Click to expand...

I'm actually about done with my cycle. I took mt, hawthorne, and saw palmetto for cycle support. I stopped seeing gains, so I stopped the mt about a week ago and started seeing gains faster than i did during the rest of my cycle. for my next cycle i wanted to avoid any inhibition of the ph while still maintaining a healthy liver.
 
bakerderek0 said:
The theory is that mt makes your ph/as less potent. A common solution is to dose milk thistle in between ph/as doses. Not at the same time and separate the two as much as possible.
Click to expand...

:goodpost:

MT does not hurt your cycle but it counter acts your ph therefore making it less effective, as a general rule take mt 4-5 hrs after your last dose and again with your pre bed supps
 
Delta Force said:
:goodpost:

MT does not hurt your cycle but it counter acts your ph therefore making it less effective, as a general rule take mt 4-5 hrs after your last dose and again with your pre bed supps
Click to expand...

i take my ph 5-6 hours apart. So would i ideally want to take mt on the 4th hour and my next dose of ph on the 6th hour? or should i take mt on the 5th hour and the ph on the 6th hour?
 
Yes it does, by inhibiting function of the AR receptor.
There are some studies available, by a quick search i just found one.
Invalid Link Removed
 
Yaz said:
Yes it does, by inhibiting function of the AR receptor.
There are some studies available, by a quick search i just found one.
Invalid Link Removed
Click to expand...

Good find, I knew of the science behind this but wasn't going to go through the trouble to find the study, haha! Reps coming your way.

P-Choline along with NAC are two ingredients I rely heavily upon during cycles to keep the liver functioning at its best, and I also try not to dose at the same time as oral drugs.
 
so should i invest in these other liver protectants instead of milk thistle? is there any evidence that suggests that they can block androgen receptors as well?
 
Outstanding said:
Good find, I knew of the science behind this but wasn't going to go through the trouble to find the study, haha! Reps coming your way.

P-Choline along with NAC are two ingredients I rely heavily upon during cycles to keep the liver functioning at its best, and I also try not to dose at the same time as oral drugs.
Click to expand...

is P-Choline the same as Phosphocholine? and NAC N-acetylcysteine?
 
rayactr2k6 said:
is P-Choline the same as Phosphocholine? and NAC N-acetylcysteine?
Click to expand...

Yes sir :) I buy 'in bulk' you could say, by getting encapsulated stand-alone from a company that OFTEN appears in the banners here. You can find bulk online at various websites, which I also can't mention (grrrr), but unless you have a capping machine and a few extra hours to devote to it, I'd just buy the pills :)
 
Outstanding said:
Good find, I knew of the science behind this but wasn't going to go through the trouble to find the study, haha! Reps coming your way.

P-Choline along with NAC are two ingredients I rely heavily upon during cycles to keep the liver functioning at its best, and I also try not to dose at the same time as oral drugs.
Click to expand...



Thanks for the reps !

IMHO the top liver protection is TUDCA & UDCA by far.
 
Outstanding said:
Yes sir :) I buy 'in bulk' you could say, by getting encapsulated stand-alone from a company that OFTEN appears in the banners here. You can find bulk online at various websites, which I also can't mention (grrrr), but unless you have a capping machine and a few extra hours to devote to it, I'd just buy the pills :)
Click to expand...

how much does P-Choline usually cost? NAC is cheap from what i have found, but the P-choline i found is like 40 bucks
 
My current supplement say 4 caps- twice a day, maybe i should just limit it to 4 caps pre-bed and keep it up longer into post cycle...
 
Outstanding said:
Yes sir! There are about four websites carrying it in bulk form around the 'net, or you can buy NOW Food's version in the 3oz little containers, as it's the patented Carnipure from Lonza.
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awesome thx for the info man. do u know anything about DAA? ive heard alotta people mention it as either cycle assist or PCT assist
 
rayactr2k6 said:
awesome thx for the info man. do u know anything about DAA? ive heard alotta people mention it as either cycle assist or PCT assist
Click to expand...

Yes, I've used it and researched it quite a bit. I'm torn regarding the side effects to be weary of, such as the excitotoxicity and the possible prolactin increase. I would think as long as the user is mega-dosing (more than 10g per day) for months on end WITHOUT the use of prolactin intervention, neither of those issues should be a concern. But... like so much in this realm of science and supplementation, it's only an educated guess.
 
Outstanding said:
Yes, I've used it and researched it quite a bit. I'm torn regarding the side effects to be weary of, such as the excitotoxicity and the possible prolactin increase. I would think as long as the user is mega-dosing (more than 10g per day) for months on end WITHOUT the use of prolactin intervention, neither of those issues should be a concern. But... like so much in this realm of science and supplementation, it's only an educated guess.
Click to expand...

From what Ive heard it helps alot with the whole hypogonadism thing as well as libido and psychological effects of coming off a steroid. If this is all true, i think itd be a good investment.

I'm thinking about extending my cycle a week because I feel like i spent too much of my cycle taking milk thistle WITH my PH. Would it be a bad idea to make it a 5 week cycle instead of a 4 week cycle?
 
NACL for liver protection better than milk thistle anyways imo
 
rayactr2k6 said:
I'm thinking about extending my cycle a week because I feel like i spent too much of my cycle taking milk thistle WITH my PH. Would it be a bad idea to make it a 5 week cycle instead of a 4 week cycle?
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Never a bad thing to extend your cycle... but then again, I'm just a big fan of upping the dose and extending the duration ;)
 
Outstanding said:
Never a bad thing to extend your cycle... but then again, I'm just a big fan of upping the dose and extending the duration ;)
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Ok cool. I have enuf in my bottle for an extra five days so ill just be able to finish off the bottle with that. If I could get to 210 with those extra few days id be happy
 
what about Synthergine for liver support?

I heard it is practically the best stand alone liver support on oral cycles. But then again, everyone is trying to sell something, right?
 
Very interesting, I wish I would have known this earlier. Would it be fine to just dose all at once? Sayy just before bed?
 
bakerderek0 said:
A common solution is to dose milk thistle in between ph/as doses. Not at the same time and separate the two as much as possible.
Click to expand...


There's your answer.

If you insist on taking milk thistle twice a day as opposed to once, space it out as far as possible (during waking hours, unless you enjoy waking up in the middle of the night to take milk thistle) from whatever orals.
 
I like using forged liver support,
milkthistle when finished orals and nac when i can while on orals.
 
raptor20561 said:
There's your answer.

If you insist on taking milk thistle twice a day as opposed to once, space it out as far as possible (during waking hours, unless you enjoy waking up in the middle of the night to take milk thistle) from whatever orals.
Click to expand...

So it would be best to just load up on milk thistle at night then right?
 
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