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Low Results - Cause?

CCV3

CCV3

Veteran member
I've ran and PCT'd successfully before. I'm not new to the game.
This time I didn't bounce back.

Test levels
Baseline 661 total and 140 free dropped to 186 total and 56 free.

Now, I have 2 theories.

1) Ran blood early. 2 months after PCT (18 week cycle)
2) Ran a 2 month bridge (GH, clen [2 wk on / 2wk off] and var 20mg)

So basically I never really came "off" but those chems in my bridge shouldn't suppress (mixed opinions on low var dosages).

What do you guys think?
 
Could be a combo of the var and not recovering during pct?

what was your pct and how long did you run it for?

what was your cycle?
 
Test 1-18 700mg W
Deca 1-12 400mg W
Dbol 1-6 30mg ED
Stano 12-18 50mg ED

I think I did too much, but what's done is done.

PCT 4 weeks, started week 20.
HCG 2500/2500/1500 1500/1500/1500 1500/1500/1000
Clomid 100/50/50/50
Nolva 20/20/20/20

I usually do 5 weeks nolva, starting 10mg one week early just to play it safe.
 
You were shut down for a long long time, and then used too much HCG in PCT (HCG is suppressive to the hypothalamus/pituitary) along with var. I also think the SERM doses are a little high. High doses of hCG downregulate (read: burn out) LH receptors in the leydig cells, making it hard to recover. hCG needs to be used on cycle.


My recommendation is to get off everything but the Clomid for 3 weeks at 50mg ED. You can also add fenugreek if you like. DAA may help slightly, but honestly I suspect that you're going to have to wait a pretty long time to fully recover - testicularly based suppression is trickier to treat, which is why you need to use HCG ON CYCLE.

If I were you, I'd grab some ostarine like right now and run that **** at 20mg to preserve your gains while you recover. **** var.
 
So how bad would it be to just jump back on another cycle?
I'm already shot out.

Any reason to wait (who knows how long) to bring my levels back to 600/150 just to run again?

I've ran lengthier cycles than that. I've used more chems than that. I always bounce back. This time, I didn't. My PCT is always the same. I don't get it...
 
If your panel had LH in range, you're probably ok to go on again, but use hcg over the course of your cycle at 600mg/week. This will allow the testicles to recover same as they would off cycle, while your pituitary/hypothalamus is suppressed (but if that already came back from this PCT, LH would be in range). If LH was not in range, I'd be worried.


This is, of course, ignoring the other health risks to being on cycle (lipids/liver).
 
Just checked and for some reason they didn't run my LH.
I ran it last April and I was pretty much dead center in range.

So I am going to run, but you are suggesting to use HCG throughout.

It's going to be a 12 week gig.
So around 600iu a week.
Then how do I handle PCT? Should I blast 10,000iu for the first 2 weeks of PCT, or just hit a steady 500iu a week still?
 
those are some crazy HCG levels man, not sure where you heard to use that much. certainly NOT good for you. I'd say do a 4-5 week clomid PCT starting all over again after a week break from everything and then wait 2-3 weeks and get tested again. not to be a **** but that cycle does not make any sense and it looks like you're paying the price for that now. If you understand what HCG is then it is clear that it is not ideal to use it in PCT.
 
CCV3 said:
Then how do I handle PCT? Should I blast 10,000iu for the first 2 weeks of PCT, or just hit a steady 500iu a week still?
Click to expand...

Clomid 50/50/50/50
test booster starting week 3

HCG ON CYCLE not PCT
 
So how do you guys suggest I run my HCG on cycle, given that my levels are in the gutter.
Run is at the 500iu per week, or pick it up due to where my levels are?
 
i think u have used enough HCG for a while. if u dont want to be on TRT or run steroids for the rest of your life. give yourself a month off. see where your levels are and if they are still tanked do a clomid restart therapy. 50mg for 4 weeks take another month off then run blood work again.

Based on what ur cycle was you shot ur testicles into atrophy then u shut ur anteriot pituitary and hypothalamus down with the HCG. your road to recovery is at best going to take a while.

Do not get back on unless u dont plan on coming off and if you want to be able to come off in the future you need to run for a shorter amount of time.

HCG if u run too much for an extended period of time will shut u down even worse than steroids so just stay away from HCG do not go back on cycle and i think you should get restested with blood work also check your heart out a bit if you can..
 
and nothing is wrong with ur pct per se, however u said u have run multiple cycles, the more cycles u run the harder and harder it will be to recover in a short amount of time... the human body is very resiliant and with a enough time off you will be fine but u cant keep beating it and expect it to bounce back all the time especially on longer heavily shut down cycles.
 
@slacker86

Ya, I got you. That makes sense that it does become harder to bounce back. I've ran heavier than that, believe me. The PCT was the exact same. I figured no need to change what has always worked in the past.

I've come to terms with being on for the rest of my life, but I am just going to run shorter cycles like you said just in case I want to come off (have kids, etc.). 12 weeks at most and I will run HCG during. 12 weeks on and 12 weeks off (including PCT), back and forth.
 
Re-thinking this whole thing I think I really messed myself up this time.
I don't look bad at all, but the fact that I have the test levels of a 60 year old man (I'm 28) is a bit concerning.

See, I have 2 options.

1) Get off everything, get my levels up to par, only to get right back on the minute my results are in.

2) Just get back on and worry about it later.

1 is sort of a moot point and 2 is going to leave me with a lot of cleanup work down the road.

To top it off my GF thinks it looks gross and the only people that think I look good are other dudes.

My life...
 
i was kinda in your situation a while ago, i guess u could say i chose option two. If you do stay on and stay on bodybuilder type doseages i suggest u do blood work and get heart check ups every 3 months. also you are going to plateau just like you did when u where natural the only way to break past those plateaus are either more juice peptides ancilaries, slin etc, as well as a much increased need to eat to sustain a healthy personality and body.

Now i dont want to point out the obvious but 28 is no longer necessarily the strong point of HPTA bounce back (realistically the younger you are the easier it is to recover). Testosterone levels do decline in age roughly around age 30 is a measureable decrease.

please do understand with option two life will get much more complicated with the need to stay on rather than deciding to stay on.
 
i know option two has made my lifestyle more than a choice and more realistically a requirement to be included, things like trips to other parts of the country or internationally, family gatherings, friends, time to eat sleep workout etc are all pretty strict and this may not be the thing you want to HAVE to do but rather have it be a decision.

On the upside of number 2 you will not have mood swings like coming off, you will be very confident and somewhat aggressive (at least more than u where when u where off). And you will be able to make continuous gains and growth in the gym at a very good pace..

As the gf part goes, i was just broken up with by my gf of four years because of how much i train and do not drink alcohol and do not stay up late. It will change ur life, not always for the best unless this is what you are living for.
 
one more thing if u do choose option 2 some of the "things down the road" will not be able to be cleared up. If you run anabolic doseages u will have heart problems, u may have prostate problems, depending on what else you run and your diet you could have blood lipid/diabetes problems. T3 and T4 seem to also be impacted by hormone use (in perosnaly blood test experience, so thyroid could be an issue. All in all these are drugs they will cut your life short. its up to you to decide weather quality of life (and high testosterone) is worth decreasing life expectancy.

PM me if you have more questions but i understand where you are coming from and if you want some personal insight to stayign on for a long time i wouldnt mind telling you about it, both the good and the bad.
 
Dude, you are addicted to steroids. Come off them, stay off them, get off the hCG it is suppressive and get off the var. Recover first, then run another cycle.

You have been shut down at the hypothalamus for 7.5 months if I'm interpreting your hCG use correctly and you wanna prolong it by jumping on another cycle. I would at least try to recover properly before making it worse.

My GF thinks I look gross when I'm on too lol. I know deep down she likes it though, she doesn't like me looking good. All other chicks love it but the one I'm with doesn't... hm... yea right haha.
 
I'm just going to get back on the first Monday of Feb.
I am going to use HCG and Proviron on cycle.

Everyone I know in real life would tell me not to get off. I never listened to them. Old timers, 50+ would always tell me its worse to keep getting off and on. That's how you mess your body up. I kept getting on and off, on and off.

I'm just going to cruise like a lot of people here now. I already have my scripts too, ha.

I always get checked up. I run blood at least twice a year. Everything else is fine (thankfully).

@ Slacker - Thanks for the support. I will PM if I ever have any questions or come across any new hurdles.

@ CM - Addicted, possibly. More in the sense of it being a requirement for what I want to look like. Maybe I won't want to look like that anymore, who knows. I have confidence that I can go completely clean and get my levels up to par with timing, natural herbs, and proper rest. I just don't want to take the time to do that right now.

So more or less I wanted to see if my low results were due to clen/var or just running blood too soon. I think you guys answered my question. I'm just shut down. I've used enough to know what low test feels like. It would never last this long. I felt "stuck" for months and now I know why.
 
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