A_I_Sports_Nutrition
AI Sports Nutrition
My jaw still drops everytime I see those front squat numbers.:smileeek:
Punthra is stacking on the winter mass with Epi-strong
- Thread starter punthra
- Start date
punthra
Well-known member
Killed shoulders yesterday....
Behind the Head Smith Machine Military Presses 135x12 / 185x10 / 185x10 / 205x10 /
135x20
Standing High Rope Rear Laterals 135x10 / 150x10 / 165x10
Hanging Dumbbell Laterals 30x10 / 40x8 / 50x6
Front Dumbbell Raises 30x10 / 40x10 / 50x8
Incline Skullcrushers 115x10 / 135x10 / 155x7 w/ drop 80x7
One Arm Dumbbell Extensions 40x10 / 45x10 / 50x10
Cable Pressdowns 135x10 / 165x10 / 195x10 / 225x8
Notes:
- extremely competitive workout...Got my ass handed to me on the tricep work
- really enjoyed the pump that the BTH Presses gaveto my shoulders
- strength was awesome today!!!!
Behind the Head Smith Machine Military Presses 135x12 / 185x10 / 185x10 / 205x10 /
135x20
Standing High Rope Rear Laterals 135x10 / 150x10 / 165x10
Hanging Dumbbell Laterals 30x10 / 40x8 / 50x6
Front Dumbbell Raises 30x10 / 40x10 / 50x8
Incline Skullcrushers 115x10 / 135x10 / 155x7 w/ drop 80x7
One Arm Dumbbell Extensions 40x10 / 45x10 / 50x10
Cable Pressdowns 135x10 / 165x10 / 195x10 / 225x8
Notes:
- extremely competitive workout...Got my ass handed to me on the tricep work
- really enjoyed the pump that the BTH Presses gaveto my shoulders
- strength was awesome today!!!!
A_I_Sports_Nutrition
AI Sports Nutrition
Very good workout Jason.
ConcreteConny
Well-known member
How many days in are you now on this cycle? 
Solid workout as always :thumbsup:
//CC
Solid workout as always :thumbsup:
//CC
DreamWeaver
Legend
You can run this for 6 weeks with very little shutdown and at progressive dosing, I was up to 75 mg my last week and I am 10 days into PCT and all the way back basically... It's a pretty wild protocol but why not, the faster I can bounce back the more gains. :AR15firing:
punthra
Well-known member
Everybody wants to be a bodybuilder but no one wants to lift some heavy ass weight!!!!
Here's Back.....Nothing short of sick!!!!!!!!!!!!!!
Deadlifts 135x5 / 225x5 / 315x5 / 405x5 / 455x5
Barbell Rows 135x10 / 225x10 / 275x8 / 325x5 (PR) ( Sickly strong on this!!!!)
V-Bar Cable Rows 220x10 (warmup, LOL) / 300x8 / 325x6 / 300x8 (WOW!!!, just can't believe the strength and stamina....)
Cobra Clutch 110x10 / 140x10 / 170x7 (This had the lats popping!)
Hyperextensions sup/ Rope Rows BWx10 & 235x10 / BWx10 & 235x10 / BWx10 & 235x10
Machine Shrugs 200x10 / 400x10 / 490x10
Notes:
- not much to say other than HOLY ****!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!
- physique is looking amazing right now (Probably my best recomp if i do say so myself)
- lats and lower back are thrashed
- numbers were great today but i got my ass handed to me by Jordan
550x5 on deads, 375x5 on barbell rows (Talk about motivation to come in and kick some ass next time!)
- flat out having a blast in the gym these days!
Here's Back.....Nothing short of sick!!!!!!!!!!!!!!
Deadlifts 135x5 / 225x5 / 315x5 / 405x5 / 455x5
Barbell Rows 135x10 / 225x10 / 275x8 / 325x5 (PR) ( Sickly strong on this!!!!)
V-Bar Cable Rows 220x10 (warmup, LOL) / 300x8 / 325x6 / 300x8 (WOW!!!, just can't believe the strength and stamina....)
Cobra Clutch 110x10 / 140x10 / 170x7 (This had the lats popping!)
Hyperextensions sup/ Rope Rows BWx10 & 235x10 / BWx10 & 235x10 / BWx10 & 235x10
Machine Shrugs 200x10 / 400x10 / 490x10
Notes:
- not much to say other than HOLY ****!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!
- physique is looking amazing right now (Probably my best recomp if i do say so myself)
- lats and lower back are thrashed
- numbers were great today but i got my ass handed to me by Jordan
550x5 on deads, 375x5 on barbell rows (Talk about motivation to come in and kick some ass next time!)
- flat out having a blast in the gym these days!
ConcreteConny
Well-known member
A_I_Sports_Nutrition
AI Sports Nutrition
Sick is putting it mildly those are insane numbers.
DreamWeaver
Legend
Yah good question this is where it really rocked for me....:fest30:
John Smeton
Legend
Keep up the good work Strogn man Jason some of them numbers are crazy..esp barbell rows , Id like to see your form on those, why dont you post up a video of the 325 barbell rows?
A_I_Sports_Nutrition
AI Sports Nutrition
Kick ass and leave sounds perfect to me.
John Smeton
Legend
I disagree about the camera taking away the intensity. do you have a youtube channel if so please post the link id like to see more of your videos
Your a strong man thats for sure. I saw a front squat one which was excellent and a lat pull down one where your form questionable mate as you did not go all the way down and hold the contraction, I am a form nazi though. do you still do pull downs that way? and it is meant to help you =)
If I am not holding it at the bottom of the movement its not getting a full contraction it is taking out a lot of lats.
Invalid Link Removed
to each their own though maybe one day well get to stand on stage together and battle it out. I may not be as strong as you but Ive got size genetics out the mo for what weight I do lift and more experience than you in bodybuilding. You've got the strength no doubt , maybe your better suited to be a power lifter, a lot of it very well could be genetics. My goal is to get strong like you though , in the future, when I can train with full intensity.
punthra
Well-known member
No i don't have a youtube channel, if you want to see more of my vids go look in the video section here. The form on the close grip pulldowns was questionable but it was an attempt at a PR so sometimes it goes well and other times it doesn't. As for my form on that, things usually get held for a small squeeze and contraction. But i do also believe in explosive form some times (similar to branch and ronnie) to force the muscle to use heavier weight than normal. I really don't feel bad about one video looking sloppy as at least i had the balls to post my videos on here, which many people are afraid to do. I agree that form is important but i also believe that alot of people use it as a bull**** excuse not to move heavy ass weight due to loosening form a bit. John, i would love to get on stage with you one day when i start competing! You could kick my ass on stage and then we could go to the gym and i could get my revenge....LOL! Perhaps a trip to the states is in order, in the the next year or so...
punthra
Well-known member
Here's tuesday's chest workout
Flat Barbell Presses 135x5 / 185x5 / 2225x5 / 275x5 / 315x5 / 335x4 / 315x6 / 225x10
(Last set was done with a 2second relaxed pause at the bottom to really fry the chest)
Incline Barbell Presses 135x8 / 185x8 / 235x8 / 285x6 (Impressed with how this went considering how fried my chest was from the flat bench)
Pec Deck (2 second pause on on the stretch position) 275x10 / 300x10 / 320x10
Pushups (One set to failure) BWx37
Barbell Curls 115x10 / 135x7 / 145x5 w/ drop / 70x10 (Scorching pump!!!)
Hammer Strength Preacher Curls 90x20 / 90x12 / 90x8 (Sets were taken to failure!!!!)
Notes:
- great workout and my chest is still sore two days later
- still feeling great and weight continues to go up slowly but surely
Flat Barbell Presses 135x5 / 185x5 / 2225x5 / 275x5 / 315x5 / 335x4 / 315x6 / 225x10
(Last set was done with a 2second relaxed pause at the bottom to really fry the chest)
Incline Barbell Presses 135x8 / 185x8 / 235x8 / 285x6 (Impressed with how this went considering how fried my chest was from the flat bench)
Pec Deck (2 second pause on on the stretch position) 275x10 / 300x10 / 320x10
Pushups (One set to failure) BWx37
Barbell Curls 115x10 / 135x7 / 145x5 w/ drop / 70x10 (Scorching pump!!!)
Hammer Strength Preacher Curls 90x20 / 90x12 / 90x8 (Sets were taken to failure!!!!)
Notes:
- great workout and my chest is still sore two days later
- still feeling great and weight continues to go up slowly but surely
A_I_Sports_Nutrition
AI Sports Nutrition
Nice job!!!
John Smeton
Legend
Some good points. Your numbers are simply insane. I am sure you will out muscle a lot of guys on stage.
I am all about going heavy , the reason I am big on form because Ive had two serious injuries, one I am going to a chiropractor for. Getting injuries may be genetic as well, some peoples joints may can handle a **** ton weight off the bat while others need time to slowly get them stronger.
Great workouts Jason
ConcreteConny
Well-known member
I had to switch to lighter weights and more reps cuz my joints were starting to ache 
DreamWeaver
Legend
That's so true, it's tendon and bone thickness that dictate strength. You can have a ton of muscle but without the frame support it's harder to deal with the big lifts and you can be prone to injury and yah that's just genetics...
GoHardOrGoHme
Board Sponsor
Insanely good workout Jason! Excellent progress thus far and yea mu chest would explode with a workout like this. Talk about make the most of this cycle!!
MrKleen73
Legend
First make it 2 years Pun, I want to get in on that too and I need to make sure my shoulder is good to go for that action.
By the way proper form is only not proper when it is comprimising sofety or going against the goal of the training. One might say Ronnie Coleman and Branch Warren have poor form. I would say they have perfect form for their style of training. I used to think it extremely wierd and odd that they did not do what I considered a complete range of motion. However the bottom line is that it is not the range of motion that builds a muscle, nor does it effect the shape of the muscle. It effects flexibility only but stretching unless specifically trying to stretch the muscle fascia should not be done under weight so going through an exagerated range of motion really just puts your joints at a much higher risk. I have been doing a lot of reading lately regarding the science of it and really shortening the rep range a little to go heavy is a more optimal way to build dense muscle than wearing down your joints with extreme ranges of motion that some people insist upon in the name of injury prevention. As a matter of fact it has been my strict adherence to those "Full ROM" movements that wore my joints down so bad in the first place.
The squats may be the only caveat to that since it is much more dangerous to the knee for you to change direction at 90 degrees than it is to come up from rock bottom, or even reverse direction just above 90 degrees since the knee joint is the least stable at 90 degrees.
By the way proper form is only not proper when it is comprimising sofety or going against the goal of the training. One might say Ronnie Coleman and Branch Warren have poor form. I would say they have perfect form for their style of training. I used to think it extremely wierd and odd that they did not do what I considered a complete range of motion. However the bottom line is that it is not the range of motion that builds a muscle, nor does it effect the shape of the muscle. It effects flexibility only but stretching unless specifically trying to stretch the muscle fascia should not be done under weight so going through an exagerated range of motion really just puts your joints at a much higher risk. I have been doing a lot of reading lately regarding the science of it and really shortening the rep range a little to go heavy is a more optimal way to build dense muscle than wearing down your joints with extreme ranges of motion that some people insist upon in the name of injury prevention. As a matter of fact it has been my strict adherence to those "Full ROM" movements that wore my joints down so bad in the first place.
The squats may be the only caveat to that since it is much more dangerous to the knee for you to change direction at 90 degrees than it is to come up from rock bottom, or even reverse direction just above 90 degrees since the knee joint is the least stable at 90 degrees.
DreamWeaver
Legend
There are other factors involved, these guys with the poorer form gat away with a lot cuz they use drugs that make you grow. If I am training naturally I would just get injured using bad form or my joints would just blow up. It's all about muscle contraction and guys who train naturally for the most part need to use better for in order to get a good contraction. If you cheat on reps there is a way to cheat though. For instance when I have to I will use some limbo on barbell curls but ounce I am back I stay back... as long as the elbow stays put it's all good and I get a tremendous contraction from the extra weight. Too much of this though and my joints will give way...:grumpy:
MrKleen73
Legend
We say there are other factors but all those other factors do is multiply the effect of the work already being done. We can't use that thought process alone to explain why many of the current behemoth body builders lift with this technique, and are doing so with less injuries. Resistance equals muscle fiber contraction regardless of range of motion, it is scientifically proven that what causes both strength and muscle growth is the overloading of the muscle fibers beyond there current capacity. However it has also been proven that the muscle fiber itself grows more from heavier resistance than it does with a lighter one for more repetitions as long as the time under tension is still sufficient.
We have to remember that ones form does not have to be sloppy to be shorter repetitions, and shorter repetitions aren't cheating if that is a part of the method to increase safety with heavy weights.
I agree that going lighter and through a full ROM is more beneficial to the joints than going going heavier through a full ROM. However I don't see that it is any safer than going heavy with a shortened more sensible range of motion. I won't argue that both have have there place in lifting. However going by my ortho who specializes in sports injuries and rehabbing athletes, it is much safer on the joints and tendons to use a less pronounced range of motion, that I can actually lift much heavier weight more safely. That it will not effect my ability to build muscle at all and may improve it as I am able to lift heavier weights more safely. That is with all other things regarding form being the same, IE limiting momentum used, no craining or fidgeting trying to get a weight up, or any other cheat principle. I am a stickler for form, but I am also learning that true correct form is about safety and increased efficiency at an exercise not about how far you move (with in reason), because each program dictates its own range of motion.
EI a board press is a short range of motion but is intentional so can it be called bad form? Not really. Stopping the bar intentionally just above the chest or at the chest if doing a powerlifter type arch should not be considered bad form just because you don't let the bar sink into your chest, and regarding building muscle there is not much benefit to locking all the way out and it is bad for your joints. SO a person using good form with a heavy weight but not going into either of the 2 most dangerous areas of the movement is not cheating nor is it more dangerous on the tendons or joints. As a matter of fact according to my ortho it is safer all around. I have a feeling these top level professionals have someone in their corner telling them to train this way as well for safety and longevity, and it is not the result of just being a meat head with a bunch of juice on hand.
All of that being said I think stretching and flexibility is extremely important and am one of the most flexible men I know. However from now on I am adopting shorter ranges of motion to see how it effects my gains and my joints. I am confident that I will see positive results.
DreamWeaver
Legend
If I use more weight and use less range a) I almost always end up with injuries and b) it's murder on my joints. I can only go truly heavy for a month here and there throughout the year but have always been able to gain size by using super sets and drop sets so that I get more intensity. This is to make up for the fact that I can't lift heavy all the time. There may be some exercises that you can still benefit from a shorter range but there are certainly ones that you won't. For instance I feel no contraction at all in my chest unless I go very low to get the stretch. I get nothing from pulldowns unless I stretch my lats to get the contraction I need.
I think you can use body english on things like bent over or Tbar rows but I try not to but will if I have to. Curls are actually more beneficial if the range is shortened to the lower part of the exercise to just over halfway as the tension from your muscles leave in the upper part of the exercise. Cheting properly takes good form as well though. All I have to know about they way the pros train is that there is no benefit for me with some of these exceptions I have mentioned and there may be others I haven't discovered.
One thing I have to say about using anabolic substances though, I gained 19 lbs and it wasn't anywhere near my best effort in the gym (not that I was overly sloppy). It just goes to show how strong these products can be. What I was using is just the tip of the iceberg. Believe me when I say the margin for error was much larger than it has ever been for me. I was diligent though and probably wouldn't have done as well was I not.
There's probably right and wrong in both our arguments and we are probably closer to agreeing than it seems here. I know for sure some exercises can be done in shorter range and heavier weight with increased benefit that I concede. Just not all exercises in my opinion.:bigok:
MrKleen73
Legend
I completely agree with a lot of what you said. I also think you are absolutely correct that we are probably closer in opinion than it seems on paper. I will say this refining, and shaping exercises should be done through a fuller range of motion. Most of your compound movements can benefit from a slightly smaller range of motion. We all have specific situations too like yours needing to go way deep to incorporate the pecs in benching. The tie-ins and insertion points change range of motion for everyone. Also to be fair my idea of a shorter range of motion is probably still greater ROM than most people do when working regularly. For instance my DB bench press full range of motion is letting my arm sink to the point that the DB handles are well below my chest and my elbows are pointing almost directly at the floor before pushing back up. Chins brought all the way to sternum then all the way back down to a completely dead hang. DB Flyes taken to maximum stretch, all of these things are the Exagerated ROM I am referring to.
Now I don't plan on being reckless just because of using a shorter ROM. I will more than likely also end up increasing my reps so that the heavier weight is limited by not going below certain rep schemes. I will still need to cycle heavy, maintenance, and light workloads and what not. My weights will probably go up but only to what I can do safely in the new ROM I am adopting without my form becoming sloppy. I will give it a while at least after my recovery to see how well it is working for me and how my joints feel. Hopefully this works because I have been a stickler for form all of my life. Never sacrificing form for weight and always using a full range of motion, never trying to max out, and that hasn't worked out for me so now I am cutting an inch or two off the top and bottom of the movement to see if that helps.
DreamWeaver
Legend
I actually think it's worked rather well, I mean look at you, as far at injuries go that' is inevitable when you work as hard as we do. I think it could be a lot worse. I agree if you don't get sloppy the risk is greatly mininmized. That's the problem I have with some of the pros, they look like they're being sloppy.
MrKleen73
Legend
Oh yes I am in complete agreement there, no sloppy form for me. If you can't handle the weight pick one you can until you can move up. I think you know me well enough by now to know I am a stickler for form. I am just trying something new that I beleive to be true with the evidence that has been put in front of me. I guess only coming up on my second surgery after lifting almost 26 years really isn't too bad tho you are right.
I also think that the exagerrated ROMS were a personal hang up of mine. Everyone I have ever worked out with has made a comment to me regarding how deep I go into every movement. How during DB rows I pull back so far the entire dumbell almost passes my back. When i first learned the "correct" way in a Personal Training Course I took everything to heart and implimented everything as if it were the gospel. An extreme emphasis at the time was being put on a full range of motion. I am very flexible so my extreme range of motion put me in more precarious positions than the average persons. However my teaching was that was not only the correct way but the safest. Now I understand there is A LOT more middle ground than the books and courses we go to would like us to believe.
John Smeton
Legend
Both of you have great points. I learned a lot from these postings from both of you.
It is good to be reminded of some stuff and learn new stuff as well.
It is good to be reminded of some stuff and learn new stuff as well.
ConcreteConny
Well-known member
Alot of great points made here :thumbsup:
//CC
//CC
DreamWeaver
Legend
Yah and some of the stuff is individual so you have to experiment a bit it's true. People are built different, longer arms etc.
punthra
Well-known member
Some amazing points here gentlemen!!!
Here's my two missing workouts
Legs
Squats 135x5 / 225x5 / 275x5 / 325x5 / 375x5 / 225x20
Leg Press 720x20 / 810x15 (Both sets were taken to failure and absolutely destroyed the quads)
One Leg Curls 60x12 / 80x12 / 100x10 w/ drop 50x10
One Leg Extensions 90x10 / 105x10
Shoulders / Triceps
Barbell Military Presses 135x10 / 185x8 / 235x8 / 255x6
Rope Upright Rows 235x8 / 235x8 / 225x8
Machine Laterals (extended dropset) 170x10 / 140x7 / 110x6 / 80x8
Dumbbell Rear Laterals 30x10 / 40x8 / 50x6
Close Grip Bench Presses 135x5 / 185x5 / 235x5 / 285x5
Cable Pressdowns (FST-5) 235x10 / 220x8 / 205x10 / 190x8 / 175x8
Notes:
- legs workout doesn't look like much but it destroyed me!
- really appreciating the gains i'm making in my legs
- had a relaxing weekend and i'm ready to kill it this week
- will be extending this run for one extra week to really get the full results of the epi
Here's my two missing workouts
Legs
Squats 135x5 / 225x5 / 275x5 / 325x5 / 375x5 / 225x20
Leg Press 720x20 / 810x15 (Both sets were taken to failure and absolutely destroyed the quads)
One Leg Curls 60x12 / 80x12 / 100x10 w/ drop 50x10
One Leg Extensions 90x10 / 105x10
Shoulders / Triceps
Barbell Military Presses 135x10 / 185x8 / 235x8 / 255x6
Rope Upright Rows 235x8 / 235x8 / 225x8
Machine Laterals (extended dropset) 170x10 / 140x7 / 110x6 / 80x8
Dumbbell Rear Laterals 30x10 / 40x8 / 50x6
Close Grip Bench Presses 135x5 / 185x5 / 235x5 / 285x5
Cable Pressdowns (FST-5) 235x10 / 220x8 / 205x10 / 190x8 / 175x8
Notes:
- legs workout doesn't look like much but it destroyed me!
- really appreciating the gains i'm making in my legs
- had a relaxing weekend and i'm ready to kill it this week
- will be extending this run for one extra week to really get the full results of the epi
punthra
Well-known member
I"m definitely loving training right now. Physique looks awesome and i couldn't be happier.
By the way, Danica did her blood work on thursday and the test results show that her blood work is almost normal and her disease is slowly going into dormancy. Our doctor thinks she may only be on meds for 6 months to a year. Merry christmas to us!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!
By the way, Danica did her blood work on thursday and the test results show that her blood work is almost normal and her disease is slowly going into dormancy. Our doctor thinks she may only be on meds for 6 months to a year. Merry christmas to us!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!
DreamWeaver
Legend
That's great News!!
ConcreteConny
Well-known member
Very glad for you two bruther! And Merry Christmas
//CC
//CC
FlexW99
Well-known member
Yo fellaz, great posts on form. I guess if I had to chime in something, it'd be do what feels right, safe, and what you feel is stimulating either muscle growth or CNS/strength training. Additionally, if you feel good about how the workout went, isn't that part of the whole deal?
fade202003
New member
Great to hear and Truly a Merry Christmas to ya!
A_I_Sports_Nutrition
AI Sports Nutrition
Very true and it is guys like GH and Pun that have that insane tendon and bone thickness. It is also still a ****load of hard work and dedication.
DreamWeaver
Legend
Yah a good example is my son who even when he does not have as much muscle mass as I do he has way more strength, when he piles on the mass he is very scary with the compound lifts. Without a doubt potential of 700-800 lb squats and deads if not more. Alas he is not active as of this moment, he works nights and has a six month old daughter...