Scientific Experiment/Log 12 week epi/m14/pmag cycle

jbryand, I disagree. You are saying that injectables may be run for weeks, months, and you'll continue to gain. But with orals and only orals, there is a rigid cutoff point beyond which you cannot make gains. Simply because the steroid is oral?

How does the delivery system matter? If the molecule has a methyl or not, whatever, it hits the AR and works its magic.

I've read about 12 week oral cycles with awesome results. Probably the worst bloodwork ever, but awesome results. I just don't believe that a steroid being oral means it stops working after X days.
 
I've never done an injectable cycle, so I cant say for that.

but I have ran all oral cycle for 4 weeks, then switched it up to a completly different compound for another 4 weeks. the gains didn't come.

thats only one example. anecdotal.

I am saying orals because this is the type of steroid the conclusion was based off of. numerous researchers agree, gains on fast acting oral anabolic steroids, bring similar gains in 6 weeks, but the gains pretty much stop after 6 weeks.

I dont think there is one expert in the field that would disagree. I am not an expert, nor do i claim to be, I only go off of what expert scientist, and researchers find in their studies.
I've read two recent studies done with anavar. 20mg's in both studies.

in one study, 6 weeks of 100mg of test "e" + 20mg of anavar for only 6 weeks put on almost the same amount of weight as 600mg of test e for 20 weeks, or 600mg of deca for 12 weeks.

this study was done to see if one could make similar gains in less time, with less steroid. ultimately in order to cause less hpta shutdown, and negative side effects. while being able to keep the gains made easier.

another study as previously noted, (I mis represented the study, it was 6 weeks vs 12 weeks) compared 6 weeks vs 12 weeks of 20mg of anavar. the study found 12 weeks did not cause any more signifcant gains vs 6 weeks.

The most important finding of this study was that more than 90% of the gains in total lean body mass and skeletal muscle strength were achieved by study week 6", the researchers write.


That most gain is made during the first six weeks of a course was not a new finding for the researchers. Many doctors who supervise steroids users recommend short-duration courses. “After 4-6 weeks you don’t build up much extra muscle on steroids”, a doctor told us. “If you do continue with them, all you do is put extra strain on your body. It’s better to stop, let your body recover and make sure you retain as much as possible of the extra muscle mass you’ve gained.”

most of the research done on injectables, is one type of injectable vs another, for the same amount of time.

there is a study on amounts, like 300mg vs 600mg of test e.

or things like, effects on high dosages of test e or deca.

im sure there is alo of data based info if one had acces to the popular research journals.

but from the experts and my own experience, i've learned 6 weeks on orals is where you're gonna get the most bang for your buck.

I could make theories on injectable cycle gains, but I coudn't say for sure, as I've never ran an injectable cycle, so I dont know how the gains are, or how they can be manipulated.

but I can say for orals.
 
Hmm so hypotheticaly if someone were to run a cyle like this
Epi-40/40/40/40/40
SD-00/00/00/00/00/20/30/30/30
That after the first week of sd at 20mg(which is the 6th week) that gains would slow down dramatically even tho its a stronget compound?

That cycle actually sounds fun. Maybe run some test prop or test e after to solidify the gains.
 
you may gain an extra 10lbs. if your diet is right. but it wouldn't be fat free mass gains.

but from my experience i've maybe been able to add an extra 5 lbs past week 6.

that extra 5 or so pounds didn't mean anything cause it wasn't fat free mass, it was most likely water, glycogen, fat.

I havn't seen any studies done with say, anavar for 6 weeks, bridged into something like anadrol for another 4 weeks.

I'm sure with a cycle like that you would add some more weight. and strength seems to continue past this time.

but fat free mass, this does not seem to continue.

I dont know, we can speculate till the world ends.

do what you want, I dont believe it's benificial to run oral steroids past 6 weeks any longer. at one point I didn't think it made any sense, but with what I know now, I firmly believe it to be not a benificial decision.

short cycles, with as little steroid I can use to make gains, is where I think it is at.
 
well dude i'll agree with that basics, most gains occur at the beginning. But I think that those studies are weird and i wouldn't drawn conclusions from them... i don't know how people are gaining anything on 100mg of test and 20mg of anavar, lol, compared to 600 test for 20 weeks, it's weird.

generally 6 weeks is a good spot.

But I think people's situations are too different. You could cut the first 4 weeks, change compounds, and then go onto a bulk with a different compound and gain. It could just be 8 weeks of cutting which could justify the long cycle. You can change compounds and doses easy... You can still make gains in the last few weeks, it really depends on what you're doing in the first few.
 
at least my craziness has spawned some sort of intelligent conversation it seems
 
I've read about 12 week oral cycles with awesome results. Probably the worst bloodwork ever, but awesome results. I just don't believe that a steroid being oral means it stops working after X days.

There was a member back a few years ago (Force Of Green) that ran a 12-16 week oral cycle and he gained all the way through. I am trying to find the thread, but it seems it was deleted. I had it in my Subscribed Folder; although, the link says Invalid. Anyway, he made his best gains from weeks 8 and up.
 
There was a member back a few years ago (Force Of Green) that ran a 12-16 week oral cycle and he gained all the way through. I am trying to find the thread, but it seems it was deleted. I had it in my Subscribed Folder; although, the link says Invalid. Anyway, he made his best gains from weeks 8 and up.

I think FOG deleted alot of his threads before getting banned. I was following his 200mg ed hdrol cycle and he went and deleted it mid way through
 
I think FOG deleted alot of his threads before getting banned. I was following his 200mg ed hdrol cycle and he went and deleted it mid way through

Gotcha! I wonder why he did all of that? Do you remember his long oral run? I think he was in a magazine promoting a Sponsor here like right after his cycle.
 
I think running Epi/SD would yield pretty good gains until you get to PCT. SD/Epi is a better bridge IMO because you have a compound thats basically tapering out your cycle before you hit PCT. Ending with 20-30mg of SD and heading right into PCT is where people normally lose a lot of their gains... I'll be honest with you this is my last week of SD and i got two more weeks of Epi, I feel fine except my joints, but I almost wanted to shut off the cycle at the end of this week... But epi is milder, its just that this last 2 weeks with them stacked has been rough but im sure the 2 last weeks will help solidify all my hard work
 
agree with you southern the epi is not as strong as the sd however it is GREAT for strength gains/maintence- this is prob what I am going to run in the future



Someone ran a 16 week oral cycle


Shiit man even I wouldnt do that

and thats saying something


But my madness may or may not continue in the winter- the main reason i went into pct is it is summer and I want to stay lean
Plus I just got a bottle of oxy elite pro in the mail- might as well use it
 
Gotcha! I wonder why he did all of that? Do you remember his long oral run? I think he was in a magazine promoting a Sponsor here like right after his cycle.

Yup, he ran dnp in there too, he was in a USPL advertisement for Recreate or some new USP product at the time lol. He was also a USP rep for like a week. He has a website, I think he started up his own supp company.
 
wrong it is not- most successful one I have posted


I dont judge success by how many posts in a log!


I judge success on my results


and I have had good results while I may not be 205 with 5 % bf I am omw to schwolenness


Anywho Why are we even posting in here still?



Fuk it let it roll ey
 
well dude i'll agree with that basics, most gains occur at the beginning. But I think that those studies are weird and i wouldn't drawn conclusions from them... i don't know how people are gaining anything on 100mg of test and 20mg of anavar, lol, compared to 600 test for 20 weeks, it's weird.

generally 6 weeks is a good spot.

But I think people's situations are too different. You could cut the first 4 weeks, change compounds, and then go onto a bulk with a different compound and gain. It could just be 8 weeks of cutting which could justify the long cycle. You can change compounds and doses easy... You can still make gains in the last few weeks, it really depends on what you're doing in the first few.


i'll just have to see. I have some oxyguno i was plannin on running.

I also have a bottle of mastavol (solid sd clone) and some dieselbolan (dimethazine/max lmg) either product is a solid bulker.

currently now, I am dieting down. I have enough oxy to run it 6 tabs e/d for six weeks.

so after that, i'll jump onto the dieselbolan for another 4 week bulk up and see what happens.

pct will for sure be solid. i'll even log it. should be intersting bro.
 
Its okay JBD in the winter I am running the SARM s-4 plus m14add plus pmag puls super drone pluse m1t plus hdrol just for the hell of it!
 
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