........

I always said that Fedor is a talented fighter simply with the best record not the GOAT. Reason being he hasn't fought enough world class opponents. Even though some were once great or great in a single dicipline and world class heavyweights are no longer Coleman, Nogeira, Cro Crop. The sport has evolved far beyond these fighters. Against world class opponents,,,a fighters mistakes and weaknesses get capitalized on.....like Fedor leaving his arm exposed for too long.

How long do you think his record would remain spotless if he were continuously exposed to the like of Overeem, Lesnar, Carwin, Cain, Dos Sontos? Could he beat some of them.....possibly. But not all of them.
 
You all will think I'm b.s.'ing if I said that called this to my friends an hour before the fight. I've been feeling it since this fight was announced. I'm glad that now people will, hopefully, shut up about him being the best P4P and whatnot but also sad because I wanted to see Overeem smash him before coming to the UFC.

EDIT: Behold! A pale horse! Is that Pestilence?
 
Bionic said:
You all will think I'm b.s.'ing if I said that called this to my friends an hour before the fight. I've been feeling it since this fight was announced. I'm glad that now people will, hopefully, shut up about him being the best P4P and whatnot but also sad because I wanted to see Overeem smash him before coming to the UFC.

EDIT: Behold! A pale horse! Is that Pestilence?
Click to expand...

I too wanted to see Overeem-Fedor.
 
luclyluciano said:
I always said that Fedor is a talented fighter simply with the best record not the GOAT. Reason being he hasn't fought enough world class opponents. Even though some were once great or great in a single dicipline and world class heavyweights are no longer Coleman, Nogeira, Cro Crop. The sport has evolved far beyond these fighters. Against world class opponents,,,a fighters mistakes and weaknesses get capitalized on.....like Fedor leaving his arm exposed for too long.

How long do you think his record would remain spotless if he were continuously exposed to the like of Overeem, Lesnar, Carwin, Cain, Dos Sontos? Could he beat some of them.....possibly. But not all of them.
Click to expand...

You realize that Werdum is a world-class BJJ artist, right? Or that Overeem is a K1-level kickboxer, Lesnar a D-1 champ, etc.?

You really should evaluate your statement before posting it.
 
luclyluciano said:
Gullible.....just like Fedor GOAT. Hope you are kidding or maybe just a kid.
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Did you notice I was replying to a quote that was obviously sarcasm?(four horseman?)

Did you notice that I post my age like you do?

Since those are both a "no", and by your post not knowing that most of the heavyweights you mentioned are single disciplined fighters I hope you are kidding or maybe just experiencing early-on-set-alzheimers.
 
wow, dropped him early just got too aggressive trying to finish and caught in a triangle...

for anyone who didnt see it

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Does anybody think there will be a controversy with the "tap?" I mean it was a single tap and usually it has to be taps in session. One could even make the argument it wasnt even really a tap, that he was merely putting his hand on Werdum's thigh. I can just see the hardcore Fedor fans saying things like that.

My friend was crushed after watching it. It was like a kid finding out Santa Claus isnt real. It was a little scary and funny at the same time. I mean Im a Fedor fan and wanted him to win. It shocked me but my world isnt coming to an end lol. I do know that Strikeforce got a little less interesting last night.

But man I did like seeing Cung Le destroy Scott Smith. Plus Cyborg destroyed that girl it was sad to watch after a while. 7 minutes of pure ass kicking.
 
It was bound to happen at some point. He did not get his ass dropped, though. He simply left himself exposed for a few extra hammer fists. I think Fedor would destroy the guy given a second match.
 
matthew76 said:
It was bound to happen at some point. He did not get his ass dropped, though. He simply left himself exposed for a few extra hammer fists. I think Fedor would destroy the guy given a second match.
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Watch the fight again. Fedor's head was beat red from the triangle.
Werdum was moving Fedor's arm around and could have broken it had he not tapped.
Wedum's BJJ plan was excellent and Fedor played right into it.
 
Rodja said:
You realize that Werdum is a world-class BJJ artist, right? Or that Overeem is a K1-level kickboxer, Lesnar a D-1 champ, etc.?

You really should evaluate your statement before posting it.
Click to expand...

Sorry I did not make my post clear.
I am simply saying to be the GOAT is not simply having the cleanest record. It is fighting all the best when they are at their peak. Simply put it's usually FIGHTING THE FIGHTS THE FANS WANT TO SEE, win or lose regardless of pay structure or contracts.

Fedor's best fights are ahead of him. I would love to see the UFC quickly re sign Werdum and sign Overeem and inevitably Fedor. This would be a stacked HW division. This would bring some of best fights we have ever seen.
 
luclyluciano said:
Sorry I did not make my post clear.
I am simply saying to be the GOAT is not simply having the cleanest record. It is fighting all the best when they are at their peak. Simply put it's usually FIGHTING THE FIGHTS THE FANS WANT TO SEE, win or lose regardless of pay structure or contracts.

Fedor's best fights are ahead of him. I would love to see the UFC quickly re sign Werdum and sign Overeem and inevitably Fedor. This would be a stacked HW division. This would bring some of best fights we have ever seen.
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How does everyone disregard the beatings of Nog (at his peak), Herring (at his peak), CC (at his peak), etc?

Why should it matter in which organization the fights occur? Bottom line: Fedor hates Dana White's business tactics and that will prevent him from ever fighting under the UFC banner. His recent strongarm tactics against Tapout to terminate their endorsement of Fedor only widened the chasm.
 
****!!!!!!!!!!!!!

I wasn't paying attention to which sub-forum this was in before I clicked on it. The damn thread title caught me off guard, lol. :frustrated

The card looked good though, so I'll still watch it tonight!
 
Rodja said:
How does everyone disregard the beatings of Nog (at his peak), Herring (at his peak), CC (at his peak), etc?

Why should it matter in which organization the fights occur? Bottom line: Fedor hates Dana White's business tactics and that will prevent him from ever fighting under the UFC banner. His recent strongarm tactics against Tapout to terminate their endorsement of Fedor only widened the chasm.
Click to expand...

I am no Dana White fan, but Fedor's management is just as much to blame for this as DW. In fact, imo probably more. Why in the world should hte UFC co-promote for Fedor and M-1? It would be a foolish business move.

I am happy he lost at this point, as I do not believe he is the #1 heavyweight in the world. I have a great deal of respect for him and all he accomplished, but at this stage of the development of HW's, Fedor is not #1
 
Rodja said:
How does everyone disregard the beatings of Nog (at his peak), Herring (at his peak), CC (at his peak), etc?

Why should it matter in which organization the fights occur? Bottom line: Fedor hates Dana White's business tactics and that will prevent him from ever fighting under the UFC banner. His recent strongarm tactics against Tapout to terminate their endorsement of Fedor only widened the chasm.
Click to expand...

To proclaim to be the GREATEST you have to prove you are the GREATEST by fighting EVERYONE WORTHY!
Looking after your own best best interests is another thing all together and the two do not mix.
What happens if he fights Cain, Dosantos, Carwin, Lesnar, Overeem and loses to several or all of them? Is he then the GOAT?
Just so happens most of the competent HW's are in the UFC.
GOAT recognition does not come with limitations like, I don't like their contracts, I want to be able to choose my fights, etc It is GOAT for god's sakes and to be the GREATEST OF ALL TIME one must fight simply to be the GREATEST without conditions.
 
luclyluciano said:
To proclaim to be the GREATEST you have to prove you are the GREATEST by fighting EVERYONE WORTHY!
Looking after your own best best interests is another thing all together and the two do not mix.
What happens if he fights Cain, Dosantos, Carwin, Lesnar, Overeem and loses to several or all of them? Is he then the GOAT?
Just so happens most of the competent HW's are in the UFC.
GOAT recognition does not come with limitations like, I don't like their contracts, I want to be able to choose my fights, etc It is GOAT for god's sakes and to be the GREATEST OF ALL TIME one must fight simply to be the GREATEST without conditions.
Click to expand...

I'll put it another way then. Since 2003, when Fedor beat Nog, there has been a calling to see him fight the top UFC HWs. From Sylvia to Mir to AA to Couture and now Lesnar, there has always been curiosity to see what would happen. The thing that has remained the same is that it's always about Fedor. The others have fallen to some degree, but Fedor stayed on top.

And, let's be honest about the other top HWs: each of their most impressive wins is either against someone horribly overrated or against someone well past their prime.

Mir's/Cain's win was Nog
Lesnar/Carwin win was Mir
JDS win was CC
Overeem's was, well, he doesn't really have a great HW win

The GOAT is someone who stayed on top for years and faced elite fighters during their respective primes. For over 7 years, Fedor was the universally accepter #1 HW in the world. No one even begins to approach that streak.
 
I think it might actually be good that he lost. It takes away all the freaking mystique surrounding him. Maybe his Russian Mob handlers at M1-Global will let him fight in the UFC now.

It was definitely a shocker though.
 
this fight broke my heart. fell into a triangle like a newb...im certain the strategy was to keep it on the feet and KO werdum. you cant recklessly GnP a world class jits artist
 
I personally think he felt like Werdum was rocked more than he actually was, and that if he rushed he could get the stop right then. A shame, indeed. But props to Werdum, he will now be known as the guy that beat Fedor, quite the feat.
 
AntonG42O said:
this fight broke my heart. fell into a triangle like a newb...im certain the strategy was to keep it on the feet and KO werdum. you cant recklessly GnP a world class jits artist
Click to expand...

He did just that to Big Nog - twice. This loss was, in my opinion, a combination of overconfidence and complacency on Fedor's part.
 
Mulletsoldier said:
He did just that to Big Nog - twice. This loss was, in my opinion, a combination of overconfidence and complacency on Fedor's part.
Click to expand...

Exactly... He had a little flurry where he landed a glancing punch to the breadbasket... one to the head... Werdrum wasn't nearly as dazed as Fedor thought... Fedor attacked with full abandon, and fell straight into Werdrum's guard.

Not saying Werdrum planned it that way, but if he did - it was executed perfectly. As soon as he wrapped his calf around his head, I knew it was a wrap... Not many guys can get out of a triangle that deep without passing the f out.
 
Bionic said:
You all will think I'm b.s.'ing if I said that called this to my friends an hour before the fight. I've been feeling it since this fight was announced. I'm glad that now people will, hopefully, shut up about him being the best P4P and whatnot but also sad because I wanted to see Overeem smash him before coming to the UFC.

EDIT: Behold! A pale horse! Is that Pestilence?
Click to expand...

While I can't agree that Overeem would "smash" him , you are def not alone in picking Werdum . I was able to win back part of the money I lost on the Arlovski/Fedor fight . I can't get into the whole P4P arguement because it is based on "what if they were all the same weight class" mentalilty and the truth is that they arent and never will be so I don't sweat the imaginary .Still think he is one of the best fighters ever but he was bested on Sat . Mad props to Fabricio for manning up and meeting the challenge .
 
The unfortunate issue is that, despite all the promulgation from bloggers, "MMA writers" - the uninformed stench they are - and fans alike, Fedor's loss gives us no definitive indication as to how we ought to consider him now, or in his prime.

Had the win been a protracted battle where Fedor showed perseverance, but was clearly and consistently beaten by a more technically proficient and conditioned opponent, in all facets of the game, we would have some clear indication of his current status. It would show that, indeed, his record has been tremendously inflated over the past few years viz., fighting sub-par opponents.

(And for the record, his opponents has been sub-par - it pains me to say that, being a massive Fedor fan - and the "former UFC champions" argument is moot: Mark Coleman is an exemplar of how little being a former UFC champion means, and Fedor's loss is an exemplar of how opponents must be considered according to their statuses at the time of battle. Things change quite quickly!)

But due to the speed of Werdum's win, we are left with considerably more questions - well, we should be honest here: excuses to make on Fedor's behalf - than we are answers. "Was it conditioning? Overconfidence? Has time caught up with Fedor?"
 
Taken from the post fight interview...no trash talking and to the point,

"Emelianenko, who was said to have been consoling his sullen team members backstage afterward, was characteristically calm following the defeat, smiling to the press as he answered questions.

“It happens that I was made kind of an idol,” said Emelianenko. “Everybody loses. That happens. I’m an ordinary human being, as is all of us and if it is God’s will, the next fight I will win.”

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Cordeen said:
Taken from the post fight interview...no trash talking and to the point,

"Emelianenko, who was said to have been consoling his sullen team members backstage afterward, was characteristically calm following the defeat, smiling to the press as he answered questions.

“It happens that I was made kind of an idol,” said Emelianenko. “Everybody loses. That happens. I’m an ordinary human being, as is all of us and if it is God’s will, the next fight I will win.”

Invalid Link Removed
Click to expand...

And that is why he is and always will be a great ambassador for the sport . Such class it's unreal for the world we live in . Bottom line is that he was bested in this match . Werdum didn't beat an over-the-hill Fedor or a Fedor who let his training slip , he beat the greatest and I gotta give credit where it's due . Fedor is still awesome and has got a lot of fights to go if he wants .
 
sonofsteven said:
And that is why he is and always will be a great ambassador for the sport . Such class it's unreal for the world we live in . Bottom line is that he was bested in this match . Werdum didn't beat an over-the-hill Fedor or a Fedor who let his training slip , he beat the greatest and I gotta give credit where it's due . Fedor is still awesome and has got a lot of fights to go if he wants .
Click to expand...

I agree...he sets the example of how a true fighter should be.
 
Cordeen said:
Taken from the post fight interview...no trash talking and to the point,

"Emelianenko, who was said to have been consoling his sullen team members backstage afterward, was characteristically calm following the defeat, smiling to the press as he answered questions.

“It happens that I was made kind of an idol,” said Emelianenko. “Everybody loses. That happens. I’m an ordinary human being, as is all of us and if it is God’s will, the next fight I will win.”

Invalid Link Removed
Click to expand...

Classy.
 
Anyone ever curious what Fedor would do at light heavyweight...?

Gotta respect the fact that he operates at ~20% BF against guys that are significantly larger and stronger than he is.
 
I think he's getting too old to switch weight....it would have been interesting to see though....but from the get go based on his destruction of opponents he's obviously a natural born fighter with great discipline yet his appearance has always been deceiving....actually I'm pretty sure push ups and running is all he does for fitness outside of fighting....it's more attitude than skill to be a great fighter (that goes back to a primal thing...like joe rogan says...the "alpha male"....lol) and fedor has always had a lot.....that's just my opinion.
 
Yeah, he works almost exclusively with body weight exercises... push-ups, pull-ups, dips, etc...

Gotta wonder if he ever puts any thought into his diet though... I mean his cardio and speed are on point - but he obviously eats for energy and replenishment, but really has no other criteria it seems.

I'm sure some nuthugger will jump on this and say that he's perfect in every way... but I digress - that much extra weight does nothing beneficial for him.
 
Yeah I wonder?...you'd think it would make him that much better...but would it?...the way he is now is what has always made him Fedor...and it has served him well...he's certainly been the exception to the rule when it comes to appearance...and he'll be back...and he will win!!...but I hope he chooses the right time to retire....because you can only go but so far....even Michael Jordan could only hold the reins for so long.
 
TimberLakers said:
Funny how you could read the full gambit of human emotion from his single tap...
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was that intended to be a smart comment? i saw a lot of emotion in that moment, he was almost fascinated with the outcome having never faced defeat. you also never see someone tap just once, they make sure their arm doesnt get snapped. fedor was just in such disbelief.
 
AntonG42O said:
was that intended to be a smart comment? i saw a lot of emotion in that moment, he was almost fascinated with the outcome having never faced defeat. you also never see someone tap just once, they make sure their arm doesnt get snapped. fedor was just in such disbelief.
Click to expand...

No no... quite the opposite. Seriously could read so much from that tap - dissapointment, disbelief, sadness, reluctance, etc...

Pain wasn't one of them though.
 
rodja and timberlakers are the only ones in this thread i give credit to.... seeing as they both do mma. But i think you all are looking to far into it. He knows he screwed up and he wants a rematch. In my opinion im sure fedor was thinking it would be a stand up match.. but who really knows what was going on in his head.. He'll fight again, did he get too confident... i'd say yes... he got caught in a triangle and and armbar... imo it happens very easily (the reason I say this is b/c when I roll at lutter's gym im always looking for an arm bar, so im assuming its safe to say Werdum was scared and reacted with his last defense... the triangle, then the arm bar). Fedor is still the last czar and is still probably the most feared fear heavyweight along with Lesnar... (In no way am I comparing Lesnar to Fedor).
 
I doubt Werdum was scared - probably the complete opposite, considering where the fight was taking place. The moment he saw Fedor recklessly diving into his guard, he was most likely completely absent of fear. If anything, he was most confident at that moment: Fedor's skin was dry, he was throwing looping punches into a closed guard, and he did not avoid the risk of the first attempt.
 
Mulletsoldier said:
I doubt Werdum was scared - probably the complete opposite, considering where the fight was taking place. The moment he saw Fedor recklessly diving into his guard, he was most likely completely absent of fear. If anything, he was most confident at that moment: Fedor's skin was dry, he was throwing looping punches into a closed guard, and he did not avoid the risk of the first attempt.
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Whoa there Mullet....apparently if you dont "do mma" you have no credibility on this topic. (wtf?)

All kidding aside, I agree. Any fear he had was gone once the fight went to the mat.
 
crowpass said:
rodja and timberlakers are the only ones in this thread i give credit to.... seeing as they both do mma. But i think you all are looking to far into it. He knows he screwed up and he wants a rematch. In my opinion im sure fedor was thinking it would be a stand up match.. but who really knows what was going on in his head.. He'll fight again, did he get too confident... i'd say yes... he got caught in a triangle and and armbar... imo it happens very easily (the reason I say this is b/c when I roll at lutter's gym im always looking for an arm bar, so im assuming its safe to say Werdum was scared and reacted with his last defense... the triangle, then the arm bar). Fedor is still the last czar and is still probably the most feared fear heavyweight along with Lesnar... (In no way am I comparing Lesnar to Fedor).
Click to expand...

There's quite a few credible guys in here... You don't necessarily need to fight to have a solid opinion on the matter.

I have to agree with Mullet. There's no way Werdrum was scared with Fedor in his guard throwing looping headshots. I thought I saw a little trepidation during the initial flurry and fall, but after that he seemed very calm and collected.
 
I mean, if I were Werdum - thank the tuxedo shirt-wearing baby Jesus I am not, as he looks like some terrible sea creature - I would have been elated when Fedor setup my game-plan for me.
 
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