think i've got my next madness cycle figured out

GnastyMcNasty said:
You eat the fruit after you wake up... so about how soon is that before your workout?
Click to expand...

typically here i'll be waking up at 7:40 am, eating immediately, being in the gym at 9:00 am. This is perfect for me... simple carbs and a bit of time to process them gives me excellent energy.

QUESTION EVERYBODY READ

I got to spend some $$ on this cycle to make it more safe and effective. I'm going to actually run liver protection this time (well I'm going to run it after the SD/PP phase all the way until i start Halodrol). What's everybody recommend? I was thinking about Liver Juice from PP. I also need an AI to run the while time I'm on 325mg of sust. I was going to get a couple bottles of research Adex but I want to know everybody's take.

I am all set on the juice I need the the SERMs for PCT and everything so i'm prepared to spend a little $$ to help this cycle out. Also if there's any supps that I could start taking after I get off the Phera that would be great. I stopped using supps long ago because they generally didn't do jack **** for me but I'm open to suggestions, hopefully for the more powerful supps because I've wasted sooo much money on supps that did nothing, that pushed me into steroids in the first place.

I need recommendations for
1) liver support
2) AI
3) any random supp to help keep gains going after the SD/PP bulking phase

thanks for suggestions. I had to ask you guys because I don't buy supps anymore. I don't know what's wrong with my body but the way some steroids seem "weak" on me is the same with supplements, 90% of them I can't tell if they're doing anything at all. My body is insensitive to almost everything... I took 2.5mg of letro for about a week before when i first got gyno and had no side effects. My friend takes less than that from my bottle and the next day he's dried out and going through joint pain.
 
I would use NAC and/or Liver Juice for liver support, I use NAC year round because it is so cheap.
I wouldn't think you would need an AI for 325mg of Test, but if you must I would go with Aromasin.
 
1. ive been using liv52 this time around and well i have no idea if its working or not haha but its where i spent my money. also im taking NAC.
2. Letro is my usual choice for AI..
3. i think you will still be wasting your money of more supps if you go down this road again... the sust bridge is going to help you keep your gains bro. i dont think any gakic and nitrotech is gonna make a difference.
my .02
 
UnrealMachine said:
I need recommendations for
1) liver support
2) AI
3) any random supp to help keep gains going after the SD/PP bulking phase
Click to expand...

1) whats that?
2) HG adex, aromasin or letro....really up to u. letro is the only thing that can handle my gyno when it comes up.
3) im a stim junkie like u wouldnt believe, id prob invest in a couple tubs of Jack3d :D
 
i know nos lol, i haven't done liver support since 2008 or so. This time i'm going to be safe, the SD/PP stack is definitely a huge stress on the liver and after 7 weeks i'm hitting it again with 4 bottles of Hdrol. If NAC is so cheap ill grab some to go with whatever.

As for using letro for my AI, i have been repeatedly hammered for using letro as my AI, people say it's too powerful and this has been ruining my gains and that's why Test doesn't work for me (It's been said to me so many times). I am down to keep using my letro but... I'm still open

as for #3 I am thinking about some Jack3d it's the only pre-WO supp i tried that worked WELL for me.

Thanks for replies & i'm still open to suggestions
 
1. SAM-e.... its pricey but it works
2. From my understanding, Letro and Adex can cause a subsequent rebound, whereas aromasin or formestane are "suicidal inhibitors" of aromatase, meaning there is no estrogen rebound. So I would go with form or aromasin
3. x2 jack3d and protein powder
 
UnrealMachine said:
My cycles need to be overkill because I'm not the best responder around.

Test doesn't do much, in my log i was at 1.125g test and 600mg mast, also raised my cals past maintenance, made the most modest gains, like a 1-rep strength increase every few weeks, which is the same as my natural rate since i was topping out my natural limits

As far as a suicide cycle though lol it's really not so bad, it's just two oral cycles with a 7 week separation and a test base. It's cycle # 9 for me. My last cycle I was pumping almost 2grams a week and finished the cycle popping M1T, you wanna know how recovery was?
EASY! The last few months have been easy for me to go natural since i recovered so well, my test levels feel higher than baseline. Seriously I've had a better libido, more oily skin and acne in the last few months than before any cycle. It has given me much confidence because ever since transitioning to clomid-based PCTs, i've been able to come out of PCT with higher test than pre-cycle. It's like kickstarting your natural test levels into high gear. And the combination of clomid and PP's TRS stack was simply awesome.

So i'm not too worried about coming off. Granted I don't want this cycle to encourage any noobs to do something stupid. But i've used SD 4 times, PP 3 times, test 3 times, Halodrol once (at 50mg i couldn't even feel it).

Appreciate your concern though brother that's what it's all about here.
Click to expand...

On the money.

The only way to PCT.

Your fukin crazy man.

I like your proposed cycle alot!
 
1. Liver Juice, Liv.52, NAC
2. Dex or Aromasin
3. N2KTS
4. Ameal BP
5. Laugh all you want, Creatine through the whole cycle and pct.

Keep gains post SD/PP? Nutrient partition-er? More test, lol

N2Slin
Recompadrol
Glycobol
Slin
AP
 
1. plain old milk thistle and Liv. 52 Those work just as effective as all those 50 dollar liver care products except get this, thats like 10 bucks right there.
2.Get some aromasin, its expensive, but you wont need much because that isnt a lot of test. You know a "chemist"...
3.TCF-1 would work nicely to help you keep gains.
 
id def look into some igflr3 to start directly after u finish the sd/pp.. i feel like it would aid tremendously in retaining your gains until the hdrol..
 
Liver Juice sounds good, but I have always used cycle assist or Cycle Support.

As for supplements, I would try Anadraulic State GT. I really enjoy that product when going natural. It has a wide range of goodies in it and tastes decent.
 
Silver3CSRT8 said:
Liver Juice sounds good, but I have always used cycle assist or Cycle Support.

As for supplements, I would try Anadraulic State GT. I really enjoy that product when going natural. It has a wide range of goodies in it and tastes decent.
Click to expand...

I second the cycle assist....I always use it for my cycles and CEL is legit.
 
I'm only in my 2nd week and... this sust is totally legit, I'm already getting a libido boost and sometimes I notice that weird feeling in my nuts, that feeling of suppression. How do i describe it... sometimes they feel cold... LOL i think that's the best description. Oh and I feel slightly more solid, usually notice this one when I pull my bicep and forearm together & flex the bicep, there's a lot of pressure there.

The methyl insanity starts tomorrow.
 
UnrealMachine said:
I'm only in my 2nd week and... this sust is totally legit, I'm already getting a libido boost and sometimes I notice that weird feeling in my nuts, that feeling of suppression. How do i describe it... sometimes they feel cold... LOL i think that's the best description. Oh and I feel slightly more solid, usually notice this one when I pull my bicep and forearm together & flex the bicep, there's a lot of pressure there.

The methyl insanity starts tomorrow.
Click to expand...

that wouldnt be sustaplex would it?


methyl madness!!!
 
UnrealMachine said:
I'm only in my 2nd week and... this sust is totally legit, I'm already getting a libido boost and sometimes I notice that weird feeling in my nuts, that feeling of suppression. How do i describe it... sometimes they feel cold... LOL i think that's the best description. Oh and I feel slightly more solid, usually notice this one when I pull my bicep and forearm together & flex the bicep, there's a lot of pressure there.

The methyl insanity starts tomorrow.
Click to expand...

KICK SOME ASS!!! Not your livers though ;)
 
Kristofer68SS said:
that wouldnt be sustaplex would it?


methyl madness!!!
Click to expand...

nope UG sust 250.

Yeah mad methyl madness. Reminds me of one of TG's old threads "mad methyl meltdown" haha. I can't wait to pop my pills in about 12 hours. Seriously SD and PP stack was one of the best feelings ever. I've never worn a strength suit but anyone ever wear a wetsuit and understand that feeling of being springloaded? And feeling rock solid... The workouts, the pumps... Arnold was going over the top when he said lifting was like cumming but sometimes a good set gives me a euphoric rush that comes close lol.
The 3 best feeling things ever are 1) sex 2) illegal drugs 3) really good sets while on cycle :).

gamer2be08 said:
KICK SOME ASS!!! Not your livers though ;)
Click to expand...

Every good bodybuilder knows to work EVERY body part. Liver included ;).

Extraneous bit of information: munching a fat steak at the moment. ****ing love steak.
 
Yeah.... it seriously feels amazing.... I feel like I'm high. My veins are popping out everywhere. I dropped the hdrol and added 60 Tbol to my PP and SD. And I pinned my first shot of tren e saturday. But the orals are seriously f*cking orgasmic. I got a massive pump in my forearms just holding the damn grips on the elliptical doing cardio
 
GnastyMcNasty said:
Yeah.... it seriously feels amazing.... I feel like I'm high. My veins are popping out everywhere. I dropped the hdrol and added 60 Tbol to my PP and SD. And I pinned my first shot of tren e saturday. But the orals are seriously f*cking orgasmic. I got a massive pump in my forearms just holding the damn grips on the elliptical doing cardio
Click to expand...

hold up! what are you on right now? it sounds orgasmic.
 
Ok stacking SD and PP with a 3rd oral has got to be a steroid crime!
 
20 mg SD, 30 mg PP, 60 mg Oral Turinabol, 150 mg E3D of tren E (GP), plus of course 200 mg a week of cyp and one or 2 androgels a day to the balls. Yeah, it's beautiful
 
UnrealMachine said:
typically here i'll be waking up at 7:40 am, eating immediately, being in the gym at 9:00 am. This is perfect for me... simple carbs and a bit of time to process them gives me excellent energy.

QUESTION EVERYBODY READ

I got to spend some $$ on this cycle to make it more safe and effective. I'm going to actually run liver protection this time (well I'm going to run it after the SD/PP phase all the way until i start Halodrol). What's everybody recommend? I was thinking about Liver Juice from PP. I also need an AI to run the while time I'm on 325mg of sust. I was going to get a couple bottles of research Adex but I want to know everybody's take.

I am all set on the juice I need the the SERMs for PCT and everything so i'm prepared to spend a little $$ to help this cycle out. Also if there's any supps that I could start taking after I get off the Phera that would be great. I stopped using supps long ago because they generally didn't do jack **** for me but I'm open to suggestions, hopefully for the more powerful supps because I've wasted sooo much money on supps that did nothing, that pushed me into steroids in the first place.

I need recommendations for
1) liver support
2) AI
3) any random supp to help keep gains going after the SD/PP bulking phase

thanks for suggestions. I had to ask you guys because I don't buy supps anymore. I don't know what's wrong with my body but the way some steroids seem "weak" on me is the same with supplements, 90% of them I can't tell if they're doing anything at all. My body is insensitive to almost everything... I took 2.5mg of letro for about a week before when i first got gyno and had no side effects. My friend takes less than that from my bottle and the next day he's dried out and going through joint pain.
Click to expand...

1) Hands-down the best on-cycle support you can take is Liver Longer (TUDCA). Here is an excellent thread I posted in over at PHF, will have most of the info you need: Invalid Link Removed ALA is also strongly recommended, it's a staple for me overall health-wise, and has been shown to aid liver cell regeneration (obviously helpful for a heavy oral steroid user). SAM-e is supposedly good on-cycle as well. Dr. Houser at LB loves it while on; I haven't seen as much research as to positive on-cycle benefits as the other 2, but obviously Dana Houser knows his ****, so if you have some extra cash, throw it in.

Milk thistle/NAC are both good, but they're liver detoxifiers (well at leat MT is, I'm still unsure as to NAC's exact MOA). They will work best after the orals are done, or if used on-cycle, well after your last dose (so at night for you). I've tried Liver Juice, not while on, but as a general health supp, and it is great. I can actually "feel" it, believe it or not. Tastes like ass though.

2) Any AI should work, but be careful: I used research letro and got virtually no sides either, and little to no effect on what should have been an E-crushing dose, so I suspect it was waaay underdosed or crap. PM me if you want to compare sources.

3) The only mainstream supp that could possibly help while on is creatine. Enhanced protein synthesis means enhanced creatine uptake; I can't remember where, but I saw some excellent info saying that 15 g of creatine while on really works well. Anything else is likely a waste of money. As for health supps, high-dose fish oil (with more DHA than EPA) for the lipids, which will take a serious beating, and perhaps niacin and something like (not to sound like a PP commercial, but I do like their products and I am picky as ****) Toco-8 for additional support, if you feel it's necessary. CoQ-10 is excellent as well for overall cardio health. However, if your blood pressure doesn't get too high, good fish oil should be all you need, although the other will certainly help.

Just my $0.02, hope that helps.
 
That does help dragon trust me, thanks for posting. Creatine is super cheap, are you talking creatine mono or anything else specifically?

Day 1 - 224 pounds. Starting bodyfat... 11%? Its crap stats I should never have taken a break. But i was injured and maxed out. Sigh. I was about 230/10% at the end of the last cycle I did. I'll get back there very soon.

dosed 10mg SD and 15mg PP 1 hr pre-WO. I forgot my PP is 15mg pills.
Trained back, strength was normal, endurance was way up. I just wasn't getting tired. At the end, the pump was great. And there you have it, effects on day 1. Love this ****.
 
UnrealMachine said:
That does help dragon trust me, thanks for posting. Creatine is super cheap, are you talking creatine mono or anything else specifically?
Click to expand...

Straight creatine mono, bro. All that other "ethyl ester", "pyruvate" and other bull**** is just marketing to justify an outrageous price tag on garbage that won't work any better than plain 'ole monohydrate, the most researched supplement of all time.

Run 15-20 g/day all the way through. The 1000 g tubs are on sale at PP now for $15 (I swear I'm not a PP shill).
 
Dragon13 said:
Straight creatine mono, bro. All that other "ethyl ester", "pyruvate" and other bull**** is just marketing to justify an outrageous price tag on garbage that won't work any better than plain 'ole monohydrate, the most researched supplement of all time.

Run 15-20 g/day all the way through. The 1000 g tubs are on sale at PP now for $15 (I swear I'm not a PP shill).
Click to expand...

100% agree with you here. good ol monohydrate is the way to go. i go through those tubs as fast as i go through protein.
 
HumpTheCook said:
100% agree with you here. good ol monohydrate is the way to go. i go through those tubs as fast as i go through protein.
Click to expand...

My creatine needs are met with a couple products.

Essentials by AI- 1 serving am
Ancient Strength- 1 serving Prewo or late day(4-6pm)

comes out to about 10-11g's of Creatine

Creatine is no joke. I run some sort of creatine year round with a few weeks break here and there.
 
Dragon13 said:
1) Hands-down the best on-cycle support you can take is Liver Longer (TUDCA). Here is an excellent thread I posted in over at PHF, will have most of the info you need: Invalid Link Removed ALA is also strongly recommended, it's a staple for me overall health-wise, and has been shown to aid liver cell regeneration (obviously helpful for a heavy oral steroid user). SAM-e is supposedly good on-cycle as well. Dr. Houser at LB loves it while on; I haven't seen as much research as to positive on-cycle benefits as the other 2, but obviously Dana Houser knows his ****, so if you have some extra cash, throw it in.

Milk thistle/NAC are both good, but they're liver detoxifiers (well at leat MT is, I'm still unsure as to NAC's exact MOA). They will work best after the orals are done, or if used on-cycle, well after your last dose (so at night for you). I've tried Liver Juice, not while on, but as a general health supp, and it is great. I can actually "feel" it, believe it or not. Tastes like ass though.

2) Any AI should work, but be careful: I used research letro and got virtually no sides either, and little to no effect on what should have been an E-crushing dose, so I suspect it was waaay underdosed or crap. PM me if you want to compare sources.

3) The only mainstream supp that could possibly help while on is creatine. Enhanced protein synthesis means enhanced creatine uptake; I can't remember where, but I saw some excellent info saying that 15 g of creatine while on really works well. Anything else is likely a waste of money. As for health supps, high-dose fish oil (with more DHA than EPA) for the lipids, which will take a serious beating, and perhaps niacin and something like (not to sound like a PP commercial, but I do like their products and I am picky as ****) Toco-8 for additional support, if you feel it's necessary. CoQ-10 is excellent as well for overall cardio health. However, if your blood pressure doesn't get too high, good fish oil should be all you need, although the other will certainly help.

Just my $0.02, hope that helps.
Click to expand...

Good post... so whats your final opinion on whether to run milk thistle on cycle or not?? I am currently dosing 1750 mg every night right before bed (like Jasen).... You think it's worth it or should I wait til cycle's over
 
GnastyMcNasty said:
Good post... so whats your final opinion on whether to run milk thistle on cycle or not?? I am currently dosing 1750 mg every night right before bed (like Jasen).... You think it's worth it or should I wait til cycle's over
Click to expand...

I started dosing milk thistle 2 grams per day and my joints started to hurt pretty bad...
 
Unreal, would one bottle of cel's p-plex be enough to have a sufficient go with the supplement or would i need two bottles? i tried to send you a pm but your pm box was full.
 
GnastyMcNasty said:
Good post... so whats your final opinion on whether to run milk thistle on cycle or not?? I am currently dosing 1750 mg every night right before bed (like Jasen).... You think it's worth it or should I wait til cycle's over
Click to expand...

My opinion is... it depends. The information you want to take from this is that MT works by detoxification; if you are running it concurrently with oral steroids, you are basically toxifying/detoxifying at the same time. That is not neccessarily a bad thing, but MT will inhibit the effectiveness of orals by helping to metabolize and clear then from the body. So IMO, timing is important with concurrent usage. However, as there are better on-cycle options, I would generally use it pre-and post-cycle in most cases, but it really depends on what else is being run.

For example, when I run SD, I will dose it 10 mgs a few hours pre-WO and 10 mgs about an hour post-WO. I lift at night, so I will run Liver Juice first thing in the AM to help detoxify. By dosing it this way I should not inhibit the effectivness of the SD much at all. I'll only be using it on b/c of SD's noted hepatotoxicity; if I were running, say, turinabol, or protodrol, I would use it pre- and post-cycle only, as these are less taxing on the liver. With any methyl steroid I will run TUDCA, ALA, and SAM-e, though, but if these are not available to you I would definitely run MT if using highly hepatotoxic compounds. Another lb or 2 isn't worth cholestasis.

Bottom line: I like the above 3 better than MT on-cycle, but using it is still recommended for highly toxic compounds - just be careful with the timing. It is a must for post-cycle. Hope that helps.
 
suresha said:
Unreal, would one bottle of cel's p-plex be enough to have a sufficient go with the supplement or would i need two bottles? i tried to send you a pm but your pm box was full.
Click to expand...

That's 15mg/cap, 90 caps right? Just like I-force.

1 bottle should definitely be enough. 30/30/30/45/45 is a very solid cycle, some might say an advanced cycle (though not our boy Unreal - LOL).
 
Thanks for the info bro. I'm taking three orals, SD, PP, and OT (20,30,60 respectively). I am taking 400 mg SAM-e every morning and I take ALA 600-800 mg a day as well. I may dial back the thistle to a gram a night and see how it goes. There's no doubt though this is an extremely hepatotoxic cycle heh
 
UnrealMachine said:
I'm only going to inject 1x per week this time. To take advantage of the propionate, it should be dosed more frequently, cuz the prop will fluctuate a bit more. But sustanon is mostly long esters, and the 100mg decanoate component has a 2 week half life so I think i'll be stable enough, it's certainly been done before anyway... But i can report my results :)
Click to expand...

your results will be skewed due to Methyl Madness.
 
Kristofer68SS said:
your results will be skewed due to Methyl Madness.
Click to expand...

There will be a long period without any methyls when I can evaluate, it's going to take the first 5 weeks for the esters to build up anyway, sust is more deca than any other ester.
 
UnrealMachine said:
There will be a long period without any methods when I can evaluate, it's going to take the first 5 weeks for the esters to build up anyway, sust is more deca than any other ester.
Click to expand...

yeah, but that wont tell us shizzle about pinning 1ew vs eod, which the latter is recommended.

Pinning EOD, MWF- After the first 3 weeks, your plasma levels should be more stabilized, and can cut back on number of dosages.

At least thats the way i see it.

Depends on your school of thought.

Some still believe EOD all the way through a sust cycle.
 
i was pinning 3x a week last cycle so if i do 1x a week this time i can compare. Not sure what to expect, fluctuating levels may chance libido or increase acne, I'll see what happens. I am really curious at this point lol.
 
With the low dose you are doing of sust you should have a pretty good idea if the fluctuations are happening vs a huge dose once a week. It was all the different schools of thought that had me decide to stick with test e. Now I just have to finish pct, cut some serious bodyfat while waiting on my hormones to normalize and the go for it.
 
OMG i am so thirsty. I've had almost a gallon in the last 5 hours alone and every time I drink my 20oz water bottle it doesn't even make a dent in my thirst. This stack is ridiculous. My weigh ins are going crazy considering I weighed 220 on Saturday and 224 today (monday). I am betting I hit 230 by the end of week 1.
 
UnrealMachine said:
OMG i am so thirsty. I've had almost a gallon in the last 5 hours alone and every time I drink my 20oz water bottle it doesn't even make a dent in my thirst. This stack is ridiculous. My weigh ins are going crazy considering I weighed 220 on Saturday and 224 today (monday). I am betting I hit 230 by the end of week 1.
Click to expand...

i cant imagine how thirsty you are... i got like that with just the SD last wk, lasted about a week, you gotta get one of those backpacks you fill with water with the big straw, like cyclists wear lol.

im in for the ride bro.
 
I just skipped to the last page, but im gonna take a guess on your next cycle and say....

weeks 1-26 test prop 300mg eod

weeks 1-6 m1t 30mg

novodex xt and pct assist for pct? :p
 
UnrealMachine said:
i was pinning 3x a week last cycle so if i do 1x a week this time i can compare. Not sure what to expect, fluctuating levels may chance libido or increase acne, I'll see what happens. I am really curious at this point lol.
Click to expand...

Pinning protocol is the only thing different from your last cycle? Same sust as well?

Also, that is the what most broscience states. The idea behind Sustanon is somewhat stable levels over the course of a month.

When one ester breaks down and hits its first half life, another ester is breaking down and being used, and so on and so on.

I think after a heavy front load, and a couple weeks at EOD. The pinning can be dropped to 1 or 2x EW.

Either way, get at it UM.
 
You guys are all wrong. I'm using my chemistry skillz to rig up an "IV" except this will be an IM needle in me. I'm going to walk around with a big bag of test suspension and tren suspension over my head with a calculated flow rate of 1mL of each per hour. When I get to the gym, i'll squeeze the bag for a quick burst of suspension mix and take the apparatus off for the workout, otherwise it'll be on 24/7. 365 days a year.
 
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