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Brian Cushing tested positive in September!!!

Zero V said:
"To err is human, to forgive is divine"

I think blacklisting a player for life is harsh. Especially when what is demanded of people today. The average man faces more stress today than I think they have throughout history itself. Well most of em, some of us get fed up and say F* it and live like maniacs... But normal people.

There is no way to really blame them for trying steroids, they are expected to be bigger badder and better than ever before, but naturally! Which is impossible. If anything humans are likely weaker, and shrinking in terms of muscle mass as time goes on.

A full season I can agree with though. Give them time to think about it, and get back to training naturally.
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No one needs to forgive him because he hasnt done anyone any harm. The only thing he did is cheat. He started in high school because he knew he wasnt gonna get to the next level naturally. I played high school football and I knew I didnt have a future in it and I was ok with that. I cant respect people like Cush because he went and took a spot that some other kid deserved, a kid who worked like a maniac naturally sacrificing every minute he had instead of going for the short cut and jamming a needle in his ass. sorry cheater, if you didnt have it naturally then you dont deserve it. people can sit around in their living rooms and juice all they want but dont try to pass it off as just "hard work and dedication". Cushing just gave a press conference where he denied everything and when someone asked him if he should have turned down the DROY award he said "why?"
 
AntonG42O said:
No one needs to forgive him because he hasnt done anyone any harm. The only thing he did is cheat. He started in high school because he knew he wasnt gonna get to the next level naturally. I played high school football and I knew I didnt have a future in it and I was ok with that. I cant respect people like Cush because he went and took a spot that some other kid deserved, a kid who worked like a maniac naturally sacrificing every minute he had instead of going for the short cut and jamming a needle in his ass. sorry cheater, if you didnt have it naturally then you dont deserve it. people can sit around in their living rooms and juice all they want but dont try to pass it off as just "hard work and dedication". Cushing just gave a press conference where he denied everything and when someone asked him if he should have turned down the DROY award he said "why?"
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Totally agree...Cushing has no right to question anyone at this point especially the league for trying to take his award away.
 
BigKen55 said:
Totally agree...Cushing has no right to question anyone at this point especially the league for trying to take his award away.
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its bull$hit enough that scumbag AP writers revoted him as defensive rookie of the year again. so its ok to cheat huh
 
the difference between baseball steroids and football steroids is.....in baseball they worry about stats a lot and baseball fans are really into numbers and the old timers dont' like seeing their child hood players numbers get passed, in football numbers and awards aren't as important, for example how the pro bowl isn't a huge deal even though every other game in football pretty much is....how many ppl really know how the top of their head the player with the most tackles in nfl history or the most tackles in one season....but if you ask baseball fans the most homeruns in a season or most homeruns ever and they can give you those stats within a blink of an eye
 
To be fair, I whent through a fase in high school where I put on a bunch of muscle and half my school thought I was roided. I was no where near having a six pack though.
 
kingdong said:
To be fair, I whent through a fase in high school where I put on a bunch of muscle and half my school thought I was roided. I was no where near having a six pack though.
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were u sporting a nice set of Cushing style tits during that time period? I doubt it. that freshman year at USC picture definitely shows some issues
 
check out another clown, Clay Matthews, cush's teammate at USC. As a high school junior, weighed in at 166 lbs, own father who was the coach wouldnt give him playing time. Then in this interview he says he was 228 coming into USC as a walkon. thats 62 pounds in 2 years. A gain like that is possible but is it likely for a kid with 166 lb genetics at the age of 16 to get to 228 at 18? 62 pounds? I understand if you are already a big 195 with a much larger frame, it wouldnt be such a stretch to get to 250s with a huge huge growth spurt. but a kid whos 166 and 6-1 is a skinny stick. unless these guys are sucking GH out of monkey's brains i dont believe a word.

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AntonG42O said:
check out another clown, Clay Matthews, cush's teammate at USC. As a high school junior, weighed in at 166 lbs, own father who was the coach wouldnt give him playing time. Then in this interview he says he was 228 coming into USC as a walkon. thats 62 pounds in 2 years. A gain like that is possible but is it likely for a kid with 166 lb genetics at the age of 16 to get to 228 at 18? 62 pounds? I understand if you are already a big 195 with a much larger frame, it wouldnt be such a stretch to get to 250s with a huge huge growth spurt. but a kid whos 166 and 6-1 is a skinny stick. unless these guys are sucking GH out of monkey's brains i dont believe a word.

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wow...usc is bad news, with these two, reggie bush, oj mayo.....doesn't look good for that school or pete carroll for that matter.....can't wait to see how destructive aaron curry is this year if thats the case with pete caroll's players
 
Young Gotti said:
wow...usc is bad news, with these two, reggie bush, oj mayo.....doesn't look good for that school or pete carroll for that matter.....can't wait to see how destructive aaron curry is this year if thats the case with pete caroll's players
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dude it just doesnt happen that a kid that cant even get on a field as a high school junior weighin buck sixty five is gonna get drafted in the 1st round. you either have it from early childhood like everyone else in the NFL or you juice your fukin balls off and completely change your physiology, muscle density, etc.
 
rubberring said:
Lasik eye surgery is performance-enhancing. In fact, it may fit the definition of cheating I've seen used in discussing the use of anabolics. There are risks associated with it, and in many cases eyesight becomes better than 20/20.

Not really looking for a semantic debate... just throwing that out there.
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Beyond what I stated above, I'm not really understanding the argument of "fairness" when it comes to the use of performance enhancers. The "It's not fair to the guy who is natural and trains hard" logic seems a bit skewed to me. Many people are born with genetic gifts that others don't possess. I wouldn't say that's exactly fair. Of course, the retort would be, "But s/he was born that way... they didn't cheat." Okay, but that doesn't address the issue of fairness. So instead of fair, the argument shifts to "natural." Well, eye surgery isn't natural. Football kickers intentionally breaking their toes isn't exactly natural.

Words like ethical, cheating, fair, and natural are meaningless without being defined in the context of sports. The problem is, once you've defined these terms, you might not like how little they support your original position... or that there may be a lot more cheaters than you initially thought.
 
You redshirted and were there a long time, so was it not just the weight room but you hit some growth spurts there too?

Clay Matthews: "Yeah, absolutely. Fortunately and I guess unfortunately, Matthews are just late bloomers. The same with my dad and my uncle Bruce, we all going into college, we put on a tremendous amount of weight".



Sooo...late bloomers YEAH RIGHT...I guess the JUICE runs in the family hahaha
 
rubberring said:
Beyond what I stated above, I'm not really understanding the argument of "fairness" when it comes to the use of performance enhancers. The "It's not fair to the guy who is natural and trains hard" logic seems a bit skewed to me. Many people are born with genetic gifts that others don't possess. I wouldn't say that's exactly fair. Of course, the retort would be, "But s/he was born that way... they didn't cheat." Okay, but that doesn't address the issue of fairness. So instead of fair, the argument shifts to "natural." Well, eye surgery isn't natural. Football kickers intentionally breaking their toes isn't exactly natural.

Words like ethical, cheating, fair, and natural are meaningless without being defined in the context of sports. The problem is, once you've defined these terms, you might not like how little they support your original position... or that there may be a lot more cheaters than you initially thought.
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So what is your position on steroids? Should it be allowed in pro-sports? NCAA? High school? At what age/level should it become acceptable to use steroids in sports?

You are comparing eye surgery which is an overall improvement of life to synthetic anabolic compounds that are dangerous and potentially lethal. Not only are they dangerous but they give the user a much greater advantage than Lasic can. having great eyesight is very useful to a football player but I feel like it doesnt give you as much of an advantage as increasing the speed and force of the contraction of your muscles. apples and oranges in my opinion.
 
AntonG42O said:
So what is your position on steroids? Should it be allowed in pro-sports? NCAA? High school? At what age/level should it become acceptable to use steroids in sports?
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I don't pretend to know whether or not anabolics should ever be deemed acceptable or appropriate. There's certainly sufficient medical data to suggest that use by teenagers is both irresponsible and unethical. I just think the conversations should be logical and honest.


AntonG42O said:
You are comparing eye surgery which is an overall improvement of life to synthetic anabolic compounds that are dangerous and potentially lethal.
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This is where opinion starts to cloud things. Many would say that the educated use of AAS can lead to "an overall improvement of life" (which is itself a subjective phrase). The use of anabolics has risks... but so does eye surgery. I've read horror stories about Lasik, and there's no endocrinologist that can undo that kind of procedure.


AntonG42O said:
Not only are they dangerous but they give the user a much greater advantage than Lasic can. having great eyesight is very useful to a football player but I feel like it doesnt give you as much of an advantage as increasing the speed and force of the contraction of your muscles. apples and oranges in my opinion.
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I disagree. Would any team want a beefy outfielder or a speedy punt returner with vision issues?
 
chocolatemilk said:
These are the kind of Cinderella stories that make me wish I had juiced my ass off in high school....
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BigKen55 said:
hahahaha I say that everyday...I feel like if I juiced I'd be in the NFL right now.:fing02:
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I know you guys are halfway joking, but there are people out there who really do think they'd be in the NFL if they'd only "juiced their asses off." But the reality is that they most likely wouldn't. That kind of misconception coupled with, let's face it -- flat-out jealousy -- is what commonly causes people to go off about the Cushings of the world.
 
rubberring said:
I know you guys are halfway joking, but there are people out there who really do think they'd be in the NFL if they'd only "juiced their asses off." But the reality is that they most likely wouldn't. That kind of misconception coupled with, let's face it -- flat-out jealousy -- is what causes people to go off about the Cushings of the world.
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I'll tell you this, if you have talent in high school and you juiced your ass off ....you will no doubt be noticed.. you know why? because you're playing with a bunch of kids.

If you have talent in the nfl and juice your ass off.. mehh you probably wont stand out too much because you're playing with grown men.
 
chocolatemilk said:
I'll tell you this, if you have talent in high school and you juiced your ass off ....you will no doubt be noticed.. you know why? because you're playing with a bunch of kids.
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Don't you think college recruiters have an eye for that sort of thing? There are loads of high school athletes juicing it up. Some do it recklessly, and some do it with some kind of supervision. It may get them noticed... but at some point their peers will catch up, either naturally or not so naturally.
 
rubberring said:
Don't you think college recruiters have an eye for that sort of thing? There are loads of high school athletes juicing it up. Some do it recklessly, and some do it with some kind of supervision. It may get them noticed... but at some point their peers will catch up, either naturally or not so naturally.
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College recruiters have a blind eye towards these things as in the case with cushing and his nice set of titties. And by the time peers catch up naturally, they will be out of high school and maybe even out of college.
 
rubberring said:
I know you guys are halfway joking, but there are people out there who really do think they'd be in the NFL if they'd only "juiced their asses off." But the reality is that they most likely wouldn't. That kind of misconception coupled with, let's face it -- flat-out jealousy -- is what commonly causes people to go off about the Cushings of the world.
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Hey...you caught me i'm one of them...i'm currently trying to make it to the league after just finishing my senior year at a division 2 school. I have seen it first hand, where a kid goes home for the summer, and does their "summer program". They come back 30 pounds heavier and faster going from third team on special teams to starting defensive end. A great example of this, is the movie the program, Lattimer is nuts :lol:. Meanwhile in college, I gained 30 pounds in 4 years. It really gets to me because I'm working my tail off naturally all summer and maybe i'll gain 5-10 solid pounds over the summer and get a little bit faster but this juice monkey throwing needles in his ass everyday is going to beat me out everytime. Then, he gets hurt or starts losing that strength over the course of a season and I can step in :woohoo:. I go off about Cushing because while hes sticking that needle and getting recruited by USC, Florida, and Alabama senior year, I'm sitting there being happy about the Toledo coach giving me a phone call.

The biggest joke right now is division 3 football where they aren't even tested until playoff time and sometimes they don't even do that.
 
^^^ see previous post. thats exactly what pisses me off about juice bags like Cushing. Not jealousy, i have no desire to play in the NFL or be a huge steroid monkey. if a honest hardworking kid gets beat out by someone like Cush, i see a problem with that. you can have your set of morals and ill stick to mine.
 
AntonG42O said:
^^^ see previous post. thats exactly what pisses me off about juice bags like Cushing. Not jealousy, i have no desire to play in the NFL or be a huge steroid monkey. if a honest hardworking kid gets beat out by someone like Cush, i see a problem with that. you can have your set of morals and ill stick to mine.
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chocolatemilk said:
College recruiters have a blind eye towards these things as in the case with cushing and his nice set of titties. And by the time peers catch up naturally, they will be out of high school and maybe even out of college.
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The one thing you're both ignoring is the guy's talent. His potential is what got him recruited. If you want to believe that AAS is the reason he was the Defensive Rookie of the Year in the NFL, I'd say that's a tad shortsighted. But have at it, I guess.

My morals have nothing to do with this conversation. If you re-read the first part of post #64, I think I made my position pretty clear.
 
BigKen55 said:
Hey...you caught me i'm one of them...i'm currently trying to make it to the league after just finishing my senior year at a division 2 school. I have seen it first hand, where a kid goes home for the summer, and does their "summer program". They come back 30 pounds heavier and faster going from third team on special teams to starting defensive end. A great example of this, is the movie the program, Lattimer is nuts :lol:. Meanwhile in college, I gained 30 pounds in 4 years. It really gets to me because I'm working my tail off naturally all summer and maybe i'll gain 5-10 solid pounds over the summer and get a little bit faster but this juice monkey throwing needles in his ass everyday is going to beat me out everytime. Then, he gets hurt or starts losing that strength over the course of a season and I can step in :woohoo:. I go off about Cushing because while hes sticking that needle and getting recruited by USC, Florida, and Alabama senior year, I'm sitting there being happy about the Toledo coach giving me a phone call.

The biggest joke right now is division 3 football where they aren't even tested until playoff time and sometimes they don't even do that.
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Don't get me wrong, I respect what you're doing. I'm not an advocate for steroid use. But him "sticking the needle" isn't solely what accounted for his success.

Look, I'm not saying what he did is right... I'm just saying some people should be more realistic than to assume AAS will turn an average player into an elite NFL athlete.
 
rubberring said:
The one thing you're both ignoring is the guy's talent. His potential is what got him recruited. If you want to believe that AAS is the reason he was the Defensive Rookie of the Year in the NFL, I'd say that's a tad shortsighted. But have at it, I guess..
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Read what I said earlier.. I don't think AAS will help you too much when you're in the NFL because you're playing with mammoths also. It was mostly his talent that got him that award but it would be ignorant to say AAS didn't help him.

I never said the "average" player would get noticed if they used AAS. I don't think that's true at all. I said if someone already has "talent" aka a "talented player" and THEN he uses AAS ..he will no doubt get noticed because at the high school level, it's a big talented boy and when on AAS morphs into a mans body playing among kids. Its a man playing among kids. These are the people that will no doubt get noticed. Cushing was one of them.
 
chocolatemilk said:
I said if someone already has "talent" aka a "talented player" and THEN he uses AAS ..he will no doubt get noticed because at the high school level, it's a big talented boy and when on AAS morphs into a mans body playing among kids. Its a man playing among kids. These are the people that will no doubt get noticed. Cushing was one of them.
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And I'm saying that college recruiting is a big-time industry. C'mon man, recruiters know the deal. If a kid smaller than Cushing showed legitimate potential, college coaches would've known he'd blow up when they put him on their own "program."

Bottom line: My personal opinion is that AAS play a much smaller role in recruitment than has been hypothesized in this thread.
 
rubberring said:
And I'm saying that college recruiting is a big-time industry. C'mon man, recruiters know the deal. If a kid smaller than Cushing showed legitimate potential, college coaches would've known he'd blow up when they put him on their own "program."

Bottom line: My personal opinion is that AAS play a much smaller role in recruitment than has been hypothesized in this thread.
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If recruiters are so good at noticing talent, how did they miss Mathews mentioned earlier at 166 pounds in high school? He is NFL potential so he MUST have been good with lots of talent in high school yet got overlooked in high school most likely because of his size. I'm sure if he was on AAS in high school he would not have gotten overlooked because he had talent and you know that, but he lacked size.

Recruiters missed him and he is NFL potential.
 
chocolatemilk said:
If recruiters are so good at noticing talent, how did they miss Mathews mentioned earlier at 166 pounds in high school? He is NFL potential so he MUST have been good with lots of talent in high school yet got overlooked in high school most likely because of his size. I'm sure if he was on AAS in high school he would not have gotten overlooked because he had talent and you know that, but he lacked size.

Recruiters missed him and he is NFL potential.
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They didn't miss him. That kid had a guaranteed scholarship at some point before he played a down in his senior year of high school. His father was his coach and both he and Clay's uncle played at USC and in the NFL. His brother Kyle played at USC as well. He was recruited by and went to USC, although the scholarship came after he walked on.
 
"If I had juiced my ass off in high school, I'd be in the NFL. No doubt. No doubt in my mind."
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How was he guaranteed a scholarship before playing a down in his senior year?

In the interview it says:

So what did you weigh your junior year when they wouldn't recruit you?

CM: 166.
 
chocolatemilk said:
How was he guaranteed a scholarship before playing a down in his senior year?

In the interview it says:

So what did you weigh your junior year when they wouldn't recruit you?

CM: 166.
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Look at who his father/uncle/brother are. Then read in between the lines.
 
LOL.. I hope that picture wasn't directed to me because for the 80th time.. I don't think steroids will help you too much in getting into the NFL.

I think they will help you very much in going from high school to college.
 
chocolatemilk said:
LOL.. I hope that picture wasn't directed to me because for the 80th time.. I don't think steroids will help you too much in getting into the NFL.

I think they will help you very much in going from high school to college.
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No, not directed at you actually! I didn't even realize you were the one who said "juiced my ass off" until I scrolled up just now. That pic always makes me laugh, and the earlier conversation reminded me of it. I couldn't post it then because I was still at work.

This one's even better... :lol:

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Sorry I'm going by the facts.. what's written.. I can never go wrong that way.

Reading in between the lines leads to assumptions and assumptions can always be wrong.
 
chocolatemilk said:
Sorry I'm going by the facts.. what's written.. I can never go wrong that way.

Reading in between the lines leads to assumptions and assumptions can always be wrong.
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I agree. Cushing's steroid use/abuse is all based on assumptions too. He got popped for HCG, a non-steroidal drug, when he was already in the NFL, and that's the only fact we have.
 
You're very right.. but the fact is HCG is on the banned substances list so that's why he got in s***

They know how cycles operate. they know just what to look for that indicates possible AAS use.
 
chocolatemilk said:
You're very right.. but the fact is HCG is on the banned substances list so that's why he got in s***

They know how cycles operate. they know just what to look for that indicates possible AAS use.
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Right, but we still can't pretend to know what/how much he took. It could be a Ronnie Coleman-esque cycle... or one shot a week of Sustanon 250. It also doesn't prove that he took anything prior to this past season. Maybe his tits were due to all the soy protein in the pizza they served at his high school cafeteria. :lol:
 
rubberring said:
Right, but we still can't pretend to know what/how much he took. It could be a Ronnie Coleman-esque cycle... or one shot a week of Sustanon 250. It also doesn't prove that he took anything prior to this past season. Maybe his tits were due to all the soy protein in the pizza they served at his high school cafeteria. :lol:
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As much as a joke as that is, it actually scares the crap out of me. The food supply is getting really bad at hormonal/antibiotics/deadly chemicals... My kids will eat only food I buy, no fast food.
 
AntonG42O said:
^^^ see previous post. thats exactly what pisses me off about juice bags like Cushing. Not jealousy, i have no desire to play in the NFL or be a huge steroid monkey. if a honest hardworking kid gets beat out by someone like Cush, i see a problem with that. you can have your set of morals and ill stick to mine.
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Thankyou! I am tired of juice heads saying that everyone else is jealous. Were pissed that you raise the bar! You take away from the attantion natural people should get for there hard work!
 
kingdong said:
Thankyou! I am tired of juice heads saying that everyone else is jealous. Were pissed that you raise the bar! You take away from the attantion natural people should get for there hard work!
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Perspicacious response. Your effective use of the words were, attantion, and there have influenced me to quit drinking juices and become a naturalist.

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