Anyone own a m1a?

DerickVonD

DerickVonD

Well-known member
I've been looking at a lot of m14s via youtube and online and reading a lot about them. I really want to get one for self defense and hunting, although I heard some don't like them for hunting. Any of you guys own a m14/m1a?
 
Ive shot them a few times. Personally I dont think it would be bad for hunting. Its a 308 round so it has plenty of stopping power. I wouldnt use it for home defense however, for that I would stick with a 40 or 45 pistol or you can never go wrong with a tactical shotgun
 
man if u like the gun and u have shot it a couple times and done enough research than just get it, after all it is your choice as to what you get.. Depening on the size of the game your hunting it could be good dont know what your hunting tho, one sure fire way to know if you will want it is go down to your local gun shop and look at prices of rounds and see which one is more affordable thats always a good way to start off the decision making process.

Hunting (i generally only hunt varments with the occasional coyote and i have used a 22 hornet and a 22-250 and can easily reach out 200+ yards).

Self protection you really want a handgun its just easier to maneuver corners and move about. Thats just my opinion tho..

Guns are like cars if you want it then thats what you should probably look into getting.
 
idk if maryland is anything like mass where self defense laws are retarded so if self defense is something you are looking into you can buy a relaoding machine and you can get the tips for snakes (which contain BB's) and make your own and put in rock salt, at least thats what i have in my 9mm at home. Cause even if he has a knife and stabs me in my own home and i shoot and kill him, i am most likely going to jail. However 6 blasts of rock salt as far as i can tell isnt illegal, just painful.. good luck with the firearms
 
slacker86 said:
idk if maryland is anything like mass where self defense laws are retarded so if self defense is something you are looking into you can buy a relaoding machine and you can get the tips for snakes (which contain BB's) and make your own and put in rock salt, at least thats what i have in my 9mm at home. Cause even if he has a knife and stabs me in my own home and i shoot and kill him, i am most likely going to jail. However 6 blasts of rock salt as far as i can tell isnt illegal, just painful.. good luck with the firearms
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Oh don't worry I plan on moving to Tennessee. MD absolutely sucks. I am looking to hunt deer btw.
 
DerickVonD said:
Oh don't worry I plan on moving to Tennessee. MD absolutely sucks. I am looking to hunt deer btw.
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I'm almost positive you can't use a tapered rifle to hunt in MD or TN. You would be better off buying a mossberg 590 as a mixed use self defense/deer farmer. It can fire slugs and shot, is mo better for home defense, and shotguns are allowed in many more spots for hunting. Also, if you have to shoot a guy trying to rape you in your living room you won't kill him, your neighbor and the guy outside jogging with one bullet. Also, they are relatively cheap. About 200 bucks.
 
I enjoy shooting my M14. But basicly for target shooting. For home defence go for a Tactical Shotgun like a Remington 870 or something like it. Most gun stores and big box outdoor stores have shotguns for around $200. Now if you have a family I would go with a pistol for home defence with low impact/ low recoil type ammo. So they will most likely stop in the walls. So you don't have to much penetration. You will spend a little more on the home protection ammo but it is worth it. Just don't take it out to the range.

Here is a site that may help.
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Sorry if I went off subject.
 
WarcraftJJS said:
I enjoy shooting my M14. But basicly for target shooting. For home defence go for a Tactical Shotgun like a Remington 870 or something like it. Most gun stores and big box outdoor stores have shotguns for around $200. Now if you have a family I would go with a pistol for home defence with low impact/ low recoil type ammo. So they will most likely stop in the walls. So you don't have to much penetration. You will spend a little more on the home protection ammo but it is worth it. Just don't take it out to the range.

Here is a site that may help.
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Sorry if I went off subject.
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I gotta say I would take the opposite position on handgun home defense. I would go shotgun in all cases, but especially so if there are chirins running around. Only because if you miss with a shotgun you probably deserve whatever is going to happen to you and I'm assuming one would have to have a 9mm w/ hydroshocks to at least attempt to stop someone if the "I'm armed get out" doesn't work. A 9mm will put a hydroshock through a wall and wound or kill whoever is on the other side, 00 buck much much less so. 9mm have a nasty habit of not stop people effectively, too. I use a Remington 870 and S&W 325NG 45 acp for home defense, by the by.
 
Well if I get a handgun, I'd like it to be something that's good for concealed carry but still has a good amount of power. I heard recently that revolvers are good for home defense.
 
DerickVonD said:
Well if I get a handgun, I'd like it to be something that's good for concealed carry but still has a good amount of power. I heard recently that revolvers are good for home defense.
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S&W 325NG 45 acp That's what I use for CC. 45 hits hard enough to knock down who you hit. None of the others do. Wouldn't work for deer hunting.
 
rock salt worked for me the one time i had to use it, and the last 2 bullets in my gun are always a hollow points, that will stop someone just fine.

I dont know what type of walls you have but im pretty sure if i put 9 00buckshot BB's into my wall at 1145 feet per second it would go through it pretty easily....

The handguns are decently effective for what they are, stopping power is arguable i mean if u place ur shots fine u can get a 22 rimfire to kill someone.
Now if u want to turn someone into hamburger meat and paint ur walls red, yes you probably want a 12 gauge 00buckshot load (favorite shells are Federals of course.)
 
realistically it doesnt really matter what you shoot its how you shoot it, 45-70 rifle shot to the foot isnt going to do anything compared to a 22 rimfire shot between the eyes, the best advice is to become proficent with your fire arm and sight it in and take very good care of it, also you need to how it shoots with different loads, a heavy grain bullet will hit a bit differently than a light bullet, plus you need to expereiment to see which recoil will be the best for you.
 
slacker86 said:
rock salt worked for me the one time i had to use it, and the last 2 bullets in my gun are always a hollow points, that will stop someone just fine.

I dont know what type of walls you have but im pretty sure if i put 9 00buckshot BB's into my wall at 1145 feet per second it would go through it pretty easily....

The handguns are decently effective for what they are, stopping power is arguable i mean if u place ur shots fine u can get a 22 rimfire to kill someone.
Now if u want to turn someone into hamburger meat and paint ur walls red, yes you probably want a 12 gauge 00buckshot load (favorite shells are Federals of course.)
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You are confusing the term stopping power. 45 acp slams a target with something like 2200-2300 lbs of force. The term stoping power has nothing to do with lethality. 2200 pounds of force knocks you down even if you have a phone book taped to your chest. Watch some of those videos of terrorists playing tag with the Marines. They take 2-3 223/5.56 then die when they sit down around the corner. That makes me think... I vote Thompson Sub Machine gun for home defense. :AR15firing:
 
dave12 said:
You are confusing the term stopping power. 45 acp slams a target with something like 2200-2300 lbs of force. The term stoping power has nothing to do with lethality. 2200 pounds of force knocks you down even if you have a phone book taped to your chest. Watch some of those videos of terrorists playing tag with the Marines. They take 2-3 223/5.56 then die when they sit down around the corner. That makes me think... I vote Thompson Sub Machine gun for home defense. :AR15firing:
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1911 seem very nice too.
 
Like Slacker86 said. It about how proficent you are. What ever you decide to get you need to practice with. ESPECIALY if you plan on using it for concelled carry. Hopefully you would never need to pull your weapon ever. But if you do, you sure as hell dont want it to be your first time pulling it from your holster and aquiring the target when your life depends on it
 
bigdognhb said:
Like Slacker86 said. It about how proficent you are. What ever you decide to get you need to practice with. ESPECIALY if you plan on using it for concelled carry. Hopefully you would never need to pull your weapon ever. But if you do, you sure as hell dont want it to be your first time pulling it from your holster and aquiring the target when your life depends on it
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Slacker is making the argument you should be proficient enough to make headshots in a gunfight you aren't expecting to get into in the first place. Adrenaline and low light make nasty fellows of marksmenship. If someone is teaching you self defense with weapons and suggesting making head shots with low caliber weapons, you should leave in a hurry. Rule 1. Heavy, slow rounds to center mass.
 
My family is arming an army lol.
Recently got a shotgun.
Planning on getting a .38 revolver.
Looks like a XD .45 ACP by Springfield will be added.
Plus an OLD .22 LR lol.
 
dave12 said:
Slacker is making the argument you should be proficient enough to make headshots in a gunfight you aren't expecting to get into in the first place. Adrenaline and low light make nasty fellows of marksmenship. If someone is teaching you self defense with weapons and suggesting making head shots with low caliber weapons, you should leave in a hurry. Rule 1. Heavy, slow rounds to center mass.
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I could be wrong but I dont think his point is that you are expected to make headshots. It was just an example of a well placed shot and marksmanship are more important. I am a giant fan of .45 hydroshocks. But if you are taking classes on tactical shooting or just shooting with friend. You should be trying to simulate what a real life senario would be. When my buddies used to shoot outside the range (on someones farm with plenty of land) We would try to make it as stressful as possible to teach yourself to control your breathing and keep to the basic principals. And yes, going for a head shot is not the best. CENTER MASS no question
 
bigdognhb said:
I could be wrong but I dont think his point is that you are expected to make headshots. It was just an example of a well placed shot and marksmanship are more important. I am a giant fan of .45 hydroshocks. But if you are taking classes on tactical shooting or just shooting with friend. You should be trying to simulate what a real life senario would be. When my buddies used to shoot outside the range (on someones farm with plenty of land) We would try to make it as stressful as possible to teach yourself to control your breathing and keep to the basic principals. And yes, going for a head shot is not the best. CENTER MASS no question
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I think his point was stopping power is irrelevant to marksmanship, and it is at Camp Perry once a year; however, the rest of the time stopping power wins the day. A bleeding out bad guy can still kill you. A bad guy with a baseball sized hole in his chest put there with the force of being hit by a linebacker, somewhat less so.
 
dave12 said:
You are confusing the term stopping power. 45 acp slams a target with something like 2200-2300 lbs of force. The term stoping power has nothing to do with lethality. 2200 pounds of force knocks you down even if you have a phone book taped to your chest.
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This is false and also completely retarded. Ever heard of Newton's Laws? Equal and opposite reaction for every action?

The bullet will impart no more force on the target than the gun did on your hand when you fire it. In fact it will impart less because the gun has excess gases in the barrel and the bullet starts slowing down from friction the moment you fire it.

If you want an M1, check out the civilian marksmanship program. They sell cheap army surplus and offer shooting classes. It would be just fine for a deer rifle, but a rifle for home defense is a stupid idea in general.
 
dpfisher said:
This is false and also completely retarded. Ever heard of Newton's Laws? Equal and opposite reaction for every action?

The bullet will impart no more force on the target than the gun did on your hand when you fire it. In fact it will impart less because the gun has excess gases in the barrel and the bullet starts slowing down from friction the moment you fire it.

If you want an M1, check out the civilian marksmanship program. They sell cheap army surplus and offer shooting classes. It would be just fine for a deer rifle, but a rifle for home defense is a stupid idea in general.
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Hey you don't have to say my ideas were stupid. I should point out I've never owned a gun, but have fired a rifle a few times. I was raised by women. My mom and then my grandmom, so I don't have a lot of fire arms experience besides shooting a .22 rifle at soda cans. So you can imagine why I have so many questions. I am going hunting with a friend this fall though.
 
Sorry I didn't mean to sound so insulting to you. The same cannot be said of the other guy. I said that because there will be fanboys telling you to get an AR15 for home defense or whatever, and it's just a bad idea. I have an AR10 within arm's reach but if someone was breaking into the house it's just not the gun I'd reach for. Imagine trying to move around corners and down hallways carrying a long rifle. Imagine trying to get the sights lined up on an intruder before he can cross the room. A shotgun and a pistol are much easier to get on target.

The most important thing is not what kind of gun you get, any reputable shotgun or pistol would be fine really, but that you practice and learn how to use it. For handguns, just choose a solid brand like sig or glock and find out what gun fits your hand (glocks are cheap and reliable, but I just hate the way they feel). For shotguns, the 870 and 590 are cheap, reliable, and easy to find. Then take a marksmanship course.
 
dave12 said:
Slacker is making the argument you should be proficient enough to make headshots in a gunfight you aren't expecting to get into in the first place. Adrenaline and low light make nasty fellows of marksmenship. If someone is teaching you self defense with weapons and suggesting making head shots with low caliber weapons, you should leave in a hurry. Rule 1. Heavy, slow rounds to center mass.
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I was not saying that headshots are expected to be done with low caliber rounds. However if u cant figure out wtf ur aiming at or cant control a gun then call the police cause if u cant shoot ur going to cause more problems than solve any.

And the last time i checked high velocity will put the human and or animal into shock a lot more efficiently than a slow heavy round. Not to mention the lighter the grain of bullet the less of a lope you will have in terms of sighting it in.

For example sight in a heavy grain 45 round at 50 yards, do u really think when u point at something at 10 yards away its going to actually go in a straight line to the target?? i think not, the lighter grain faster velocity rounds are always more accurate at any range. however the lighter the grain the more of straight line the bullet has to the target.



and a hollow point from a 9mm will stop anyone i dont care who says any differently, if you cant stop a person with a hollow point or at the very least being able to shoot your attacker in some area that is vital, well you my friend should go learn how to handle a gun. You take a FMJ round and let it pass through the person woopee doo they have a hole and they are bleeding, u put a hollow point in it and it enters then expands and if ur doing a COM shot hits multiple organs where as a FMJ could (in theory) pass through without hitting anything vital.
 
dave12 said:
I think his point was stopping power is irrelevant to marksmanship, and it is at Camp Perry once a year; however, the rest of the time stopping power wins the day. A bleeding out bad guy can still kill you. A bad guy with a baseball sized hole in his chest put there with the force of being hit by a linebacker, somewhat less so.
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If you cant place ur shots what makes u think ur going to hit him anywhere where he will bleed out? For god sakes home defense is close enough that you can place where you want to shoot.

And u want to put a hole in his torso go right ahead u will be the only person in the world using a sawed off 8 gauge for home defense/demolition, goodluck with that..
 
dave12 said:
You are confusing the term stopping power. 45 acp slams a target with something like 2200-2300 lbs of force. The term stoping power has nothing to do with lethality. 2200 pounds of force knocks you down even if you have a phone book taped to your chest. Watch some of those videos of terrorists playing tag with the Marines. They take 2-3 223/5.56 then die when they sit down around the corner. That makes me think... I vote Thompson Sub Machine gun for home defense. :AR15firing:
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by slams the target u mean point of impact, its not like it hits his hole body it is that one point that has that force exerted upon it. I have never seen a person get shot by a 45 and go flying away, it doesnt happen like that, what should be the focus is the location you choose on the target and what type of shell FMJ hollow point whatever, you are using for that application.

A 223 is fine to kill someone and i doubt they are getting hit in vital areas during a fire fight, if a 223 passes through your arm or a 45 passes through your arm, it doesnt change that its just ur arm and u can go on. Plus do you really think the military would issue non-lethal rounds to our service men and women?
 
DerickVonD said:
Hey you don't have to say my ideas were stupid. I should point out I've never owned a gun, but have fired a rifle a few times. I was raised by women. My mom and then my grandmom, so I don't have a lot of fire arms experience besides shooting a .22 rifle at soda cans. So you can imagine why I have so many questions. I am going hunting with a friend this fall though.
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If you are new to firearms im going to give you some advice, the more you practice the more profficient and better you will become at handling firearms, and the more enjoyable it will be for you. Always ALWAYS ALWAYS use good gun safety ear plugs eye protection etc, obviously if you are going hunting you cant use the ear plugs but when practicing do it. I cannot tell you how many of my friends did something to try and show off and ended up doing something completely retarded and it definately was not worth the negligence they showed.

If you are going hunting please be careful during deer season thats when the majority of the hunting related accidents happen so just be aware of that.

Also learn how to take ur gun apart and clean it and oil it, you can easily make a decent gun last your entire lifetime.

Finally if you do choose some sort of rifle to get make sure u dont burn out the barrel by shooting continuous rounds out of it quickly. You can look up firing rates and barrel burnout on whatever you get but its a noob mistake and it can be costly.

last of all have fun.
 
dpfisher said:
This is false and also completely retarded. Ever heard of Newton's Laws? Equal and opposite reaction for every action?

The bullet will impart no more force on the target than the gun did on your hand when you fire it. In fact it will impart less because the gun has excess gases in the barrel and the bullet starts slowing down from friction the moment you fire it.

If you want an M1, check out the civilian marksmanship program. They sell cheap army surplus and offer shooting classes. It would be just fine for a deer rifle, but a rifle for home defense is a stupid idea in general.
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Wow. Where to begin...Nowhere. I'm not arguing with a nitwit. Feel free to stop by one of the tactical shooting programs the NRA offers in your area. If we are lucky it will be one I'm assisting at. I'll address this then. Feel free to research the weights of various projectiles in the mean time, the energy imparted by the grain count of the charge propelling said projectile, after you have worked out these factors, get the velocity of the round and determine it's force on impact. Clearly, I've run into a scientician I cannot compete with intellectually, that clearly didn't read my posts. (Or possibly you were too enmeshed in your scientific experiments to understand what I typed.) Again, I'll say that if OP wants a weapon to both defend his home, as well as, bag himself 70-100 pounds of complimentary dietary protein a Mossberg 590 or Remington 870 is the way to go.

Edit: I forgot to tell you how to identify to the class it is in fact you that is present. At the beginning of class, please stand up and say "It is both retarded and wrong to say that 45acp imparts exponentially greater force on impact than a 22lr. Even if I'm am not present, the Certified instructor will have the pertinent ballistic info to tell you how very wrong that statement is.
 
Well I checked out the TN hunting laws. I can not seem to find the page now. But it said something like during deer season I can use any centerfire rifle to hunt deers, but I can not use full metal jackets.
 
DerickVonD said:
I'm going this fall, but in west virgina. The reason I was asking about TN though is I was thinking of moving there once I can get my own place.
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Just checking. Your considering a military rifle had me wondering. Thought I would try and help find a guide or trainer if you needed one.
 
dave12 said:
Just checking. Your considering a military rifle had me wondering. Thought I would try and help find a guide or trainer if you needed one.
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Well thank you. I know it's military, but I like the look of it and I like the fact it has power and a history behind it. I'm going to be using someone else rifle in WV when I go hunting with my friend and his friend. Realistically I probably won't be buying any rifle for atleast a few months.
 
My one friend Dan who is from TN has family down there that owns land. I'm guessing the laws are different on private land.
 
DerickVonD said:
My one friend Dan who is from TN has family down there that owns land. I'm guessing the laws are different on private land.
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They are not. State laws apply private or public. That said, it would be quite a bit harder getting caught doing something the state says you shouldn't on private land. I haven't hunted in W.Va, but I have in TN and where I was (I don't recall) had a restriction of no rifles, shotguns/archery only, so there is some variation from hunting ground to hunting ground, as well.
 
dave12 said:
If we are lucky it will be one I'm assisting at. I'll address this then. Feel free to research the weights of various projectiles in the mean time, the energy imparted by the grain count of the charge propelling said projectile, after you have worked out these factors, get the velocity of the round and determine it's force on impact.

Edit: I forgot to tell you how to identify to the class it is in fact you that is present. At the beginning of class, please stand up and say "It is both retarded and wrong to say that 45acp imparts exponentially greater force on impact than a 22lr. Even if I'm am not present, the Certified instructor will have the pertinent ballistic info to tell you how very wrong that statement is.
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2000 lbf is not equal to 2000lbs. You are trying to make it look like I said something I didn't because you can't backup your retarded statement, which I will remind you of:
The term stoping power has nothing to do with lethality. 2200 pounds of force knocks you down even if you have a phone book taped to your chest.
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If the bullet knocks you down, then the gun would have to knock you down when you fire it. How can you dispute this? Assisting at an NRA class isn't exactly hard to do, and clearly doesn't teach you anything about the effects of bullets.
 
Derick the best thing you could do if you want to go hunting is to go online and look up you states fish and game department. There you can apply for a license to hunt and look up rules regaurding what you can or cannot shoot and when etc etc as well as getting ur hunting license at the same time. Anything you hear outside of your states fish and game department is bull**** and is not the law.

I dont know much about your state in mass there are specific times of the year that certain rifles may be used, and at certain times and for certain animals. You need to know the laws before you go out into the woods and there is no better source to obtain that information than your states fish and wildlife department.

That being said if you want to read into private vs public land laws regarding hunting you can do so with no worry as to weather what your hearing is correct or incorect.

For example in mass you cannot shoot within 500 ft of any building, unless you have permission from the land owner, in which case you could be as close to the house as you want. That is the only example i know of (in mass) that is different from personal property vs public land.

Also do your-self a favor and stay out of gray areas in the laws, its not how you read or think what the laws say its how the game warden reads them, and hunting violations can be expensive and a pain in the ass.

Goodluck have fun be safe.
 
dave12 said:
Your right. I'm wrong. You win. A bullet impacts with the 12-22 lbs of force that is felt in recoil. Magic causes it to knock people over and force themselves through people.
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Please get your GED. I will provide rough calculations and give the bullet the benefit of the doubt when making assumptions. Unfortunately these will be lost on you because physics is magic to you, and what some NRA guy said is more important to you than fact.

Let's assume your linebacker is 220lbs, or 100kg. Let's assume he's running at you and you're standing still. 10mph is about 4.5 m/s. So he's coming at you with 100kg * 4.5m/s = 450kg*m/s of momentum.

A .45 (a big one) is 230grains, almost .015kg. We'll assume you're being shot at point blank range. The muzzle velocity is say 850fps or 259.08 m/s. So the bullet is coming at you with 3.885 kg*m/s of momentum.

Momentum is conserved, so assuming no loss of energy (the bullet loses a lot actually due to exerting a force outward inside the body, but I'll assume you have a metal plate on your chest), the equation would be

m(bullet)v(bullet) + m(you)v(you) == m(bullet)v(bullet) + m(you)v(you)

Where the left side is before impact and right side is after impact.
You have zero velocity to start, if you're standing still. If the bullet expands inside you when it hits, you and the bullet have the same velocity. I will assume you weigh as much as the linebacker.

3.885 kg*m/s = (velocity after impact)*(mass of you and bullet =still 100kg)

So velocity after impact, assuming all energy was used in pushing you (much wasn't), is .03885 m/s, = .12 ft/s, and that was being generous.

Same thing with the linebacker,

450kg*m/s = (velocity after impact)*(mass of both of you =200kg)
So velocity after impact = 2.25 m/s = 7 ft/s
 
and let me clarify, that little loophole about the 500ft around a building, even if i had permission from the land owner i still personally would not do it, it just makes it easier to stay in the green in hunting situations. thats just me though
 
dpfisher said:
Please get your GED. I will provide rough calculations and give the bullet the benefit of the doubt when making assumptions. Unfortunately these will be lost on you because physics is magic to you, and what some NRA guy said is more important to you than fact.

Let's assume your linebacker is 220lbs, or 100kg. Let's assume he's running at you and you're standing still. 10mph is about 4.5 m/s. So he's coming at you with 100kg * 4.5m/s = 450kg*m/s of momentum.

A .45 (a big one) is 230grains, almost .015kg. We'll assume you're being shot at point blank range. The muzzle velocity is say 850fps or 259.08 m/s. So the bullet is coming at you with 3.885 kg*m/s of momentum.

Momentum is conserved, so assuming no loss of energy (the bullet loses a lot actually due to exerting a force outward inside the body, but I'll assume you have a metal plate on your chest), the equation would be

m(bullet)v(bullet) + m(you)v(you) == m(bullet)v(bullet) + m(you)v(you)

Where the left side is before impact and right side is after impact.
You have zero velocity to start, if you're standing still. If the bullet expands inside you when it hits, you and the bullet have the same velocity. I will assume you weigh as much as the linebacker.

3.885 kg*m/s = (velocity after impact)*(mass of you and bullet =still 100kg)

So velocity after impact, assuming all energy was used in pushing you (much wasn't), is .03885 m/s, = .12 ft/s, and that was being generous.

Same thing with the linebacker,

450kg*m/s = (velocity after impact)*(mass of both of you =200kg)
So velocity after impact = 2.25 m/s = 7 ft/s
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You have missed the kinetic energy aspect, your equation for conservation of momentum is the wrong equation. If it makes any difference, my Bach is from CWRU, (plenty of math in there). I'm not going to argue with someone inappropriately citing 7th grade science know how. If you really want to get into it, read up on the physics of firearms. Then come back and I'll help you sort out what's wrong with what you are saying.
 
Dave12.... I know the point your trying to get acrossed but hes not geting it. It doesnt matter what science or math formulas you can throw out there as DPfisher is trying to provide. A bullets energy isnt studied by speed. Its ballistics (the effect it has on the human body) Thus the term stopping power. You can not argue that all bullets hit with the same force. Example: The .45 cal was developed by the military to deal with the issue that the military was having dealing with natives that were, for lack of a better term, cracked out by todays standards. They could unload their 38 service revolver and they just kept comming. The .45 would stop them where they stood. This also applies to home defense. Sure, if a normal person breaks into your house an you shoot them with just about anything there going to stop. However, now take someone who is a meth head, your going to want a heavier round. Personally I dont feel like finding out with a smaller round. If you want to argue that a 9mm round is just as effective as a 40 or 45 then why are almost all Police depts switched over to the 40 or 45. The reason that the military still uses the M9 9mm is because it is a NATO round and used by standard carry by other countries. An important detail if your in a war and need to gather ammo
 
bigdognhb said:
Dave12.... I know the point your trying to get acrossed but hes not geting it. It doesnt matter what science or math formulas you can throw out there as DPfisher is trying to provide. A bullets energy isnt studied by speed. Its ballistics (the effect it has on the human body) Thus the term stopping power. You can not argue that all bullets hit with the same force. Example: The .45 cal was developed by the military to deal with the issue that the military was having dealing with natives that were, for lack of a better term, cracked out by todays standards. They could unload their 38 service revolver and they just kept comming. The .45 would stop them where they stood. This also applies to home defense. Sure, if a normal person breaks into your house an you shoot them with just about anything there going to stop. However, now take someone who is a meth head, your going to want a heavier round. Personally I dont feel like finding out with a smaller round. If you want to argue that a 9mm round is just as effective as a 40 or 45 then why are almost all Police depts switched over to the 40 or 45. The reason that the military still uses the M9 9mm is because it is a NATO round and used by standard carry by other countries. An important detail if your in a war and need to gather ammo
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I apologize for prolonging this, I was called a retard then confronted with an imbecilic statement. I should link him to a simple ballistics chart. ( I looked up a comprehensive one; felt recoil, CC pressure, velocity, FORCE on impact from kinetic dispersal, etc) I was hoping he would catch on do some reading and say I'm sorry. He did not he, suggested I get a GED which I don't believe would have helped. Then I was presented with an inappropriate use of conservation of momentum, (who needs a Good Enough Diploma?). I am hopeful that he will cast the line but I'm not handing him the fish. 3 minutes of googling would put this to rest. 45acp, .375H+H FTW.
 
dave12 said:
You have missed the kinetic energy aspect, your equation for conservation of momentum is the wrong equation. If it makes any difference, my Bach is from CWRU, (plenty of math in there). I'm not going to argue with someone inappropriately citing 7th grade science know how. If you really want to get into it, read up on the physics of firearms. Then come back and I'll help you sort out what's wrong with what you are saying.
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I have a degree in physics, if you must know. I used momentum (the correct formula) rather than overall energy because energy is not conserved in any way you can reasonably calculate in that situation. Most is expended causing deformation of the bullet and the body. Now that we've finished ****waving, please explain to me how a bullet is going to throw around a man.

How about this, since you hunt. A doe weighs less than a man. When you shoot a doe with a slug (bigger than a .45) and hit in the wrong place, does it go flying backwards, or does it stumble a little and start to run?
 
How about this. Real men hunt with a black powder rifle! One shot and then chase that MFer down and beat it.

Thats how I roll.

HA

Also in downtown Chicago this is how I roll.

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Haven't owned one. If you're gonna be hunting in Tennessee, get a .270 or a 7 mag. For home protection look for the mossberg persuader with buckshot, or get you a glock 23, these are my 2 of choice. The glock 23 is a compact version which is ideal for concealment.
 
BabyHulk said:
Haven't owned one. If you're gonna be hunting in Tennessee, get a .270 or a 7 mag. For home protection look for the mossberg persuader with buckshot, or get you a glock 23, these are my 2 of choice. The glock 23 is a compact version which is ideal for concealment.
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270 enough to take a boar? I know he mentioned deer, but they have boar everywhere and I know if I couldn't find a deer, a midsize boar would fill out a hunting trip.
 
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