what is the strongest supplement for bodybuilding thats non steriod?
- Thread starter ShapiroMD
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TexasLifter89
Well-known member
for what goal? The best supplement is hard work.
Rosie Chee
The Female Terminator
It depends on the individual and their goals (and, as already mentioned, nothing is going to get you anywhere without hard work and effort and the correct nutrition and training programme re goals and needs).
~Rosie
Team APPNUT
Animal1918
New member
not knowing ones goals or stats.....i would go with prime,a.p.,powerfull,jack3d......those alone should help to create great work outs and thats where it all starts....if your diet sucks then just disregard all that and get on a solid diet and watch the results start to come give any diet plan at least 90 days(make adjustments but stick to guidelines of a plan)
A_I_Sports_Nutrition
AI Sports Nutrition
Solid diet and a good natty test booster would be strong but the diet comes first.
cirroc
New member
maybe you could assume the OP is disciplined in the diet and training departments and since the OP stated "bodybuilding" they are interested in getting lean and improving muscularity...then respond.
at least those are my assumptions...i'm interested in what training/bodybuilding experts believe to be helpful or powerful supps beyond protein powders, meal replacements etc.
are natural test boosters helpful? what else would be good for leaning out while maintaining or adding to overall muscularity? (again assuming the diet and training are already where they need to be)
Rosie Chee
The Female Terminator
NEVER assume anything. Most people who say that they have a good diet and training programme, if scrutinized, do not at all.
And just because the OP asked if natural testosterone boosters are "the strongest supplement for bodybuilding that's non steriod?" does not mean that "they are interested in getting lean and improving muscularity"; "bodybuilding" encompasses many things.
Natural testosterone boosters can be useful for a male.
If you are looking at recomping (i.e. "leaning out while maintaining or adding to overall muscularity") then diet is the key component that must be manipulated. Aside from that, a natural Growth Hormone and/or testosterone booster or natural anabolic would be the products that I would recommend. From personal experience IGF-2 (by Applied Nutriceuticals, NOT the hormone) is the BEST product for recomping (and I ate what I wanted, but just trained VERY hard and intense; which shows that training CAN 'make up' for diet in some individuals and that some products, depending on the individual, CAN make a HUGE difference).
Remember also that not all products of the same classification (i.e. testosterone or Growth Hormone booster) are equal; some are definitely BETTER than others, and more often than not, using a STACK of such products is the more effective way to go.
~Rosie
Team APPNUT
urbanski
Well-known member
he asked about hdrol in another post so how does this change YOUR assumptions?
there are so many clueless newbies or worse yet, newbs indoctrinated by the latest magazine articles, around here that I'll bet most folks dont know what their "goal" is.
so the OP posts 5 words and you automatically become a total expert on his background, goals, and diet? wow you're good. i love how you disregarded Guejsn's advice. that's just hilarious.
A_I_Sports_Nutrition
AI Sports Nutrition
I would have whey and some creatine also a multi vit. If you want to add a test booster there are some good ones outh the TestoPRO, Stoked, DTHC, Prime and MassFX that is to name a few.
cirroc
New member
wasn't looking at other posts from other threads, was looking at this thread.
don't be dense shorty, my statement was to invoke an answer other than the cliche "hard work and diet are the best supps". most everyone says that in nearly every response...so much like Guejsn just posted right after saying NEVER assume, she provided a set of assumptions and a response based on those assumptions.
in other words, i drew out the response i wanted.
can i interest you in shoe lifts? 5' 7"? :lol:
cirroc
New member
not to be to generic or vague, but what are a few examples of stacks based on different bodybuilding goals? you mentioned test boosters and GH so i'm wondering about possible PH and non-PH examples as well. let's say you wanted to keep BF% low and increase or maintain strength and size if that is a specific enough goal.
thanks for the info above.
shakindrake
New member
FOOD
Rosie Chee
The Female Terminator
Almost any PH is going to work for any bodybuilding goal, provided your calories and training are targeted at it.
As for NON-hormonal stacks, examples of stacks based on goals (and some can fit more than one goal):
Gaining muscle mass
* Activate Xtreme or Divanol or Nettle Root/Drive/IGF-2
* Sustain Alpha/IGF-2/Alpha-X
Losing Fat
* Drive/RPM
* Anadraulic State/LipoBURN/IGF-2
* Lean Xtreme/Activate Xtreme
* DCP/Leviathan Reloaded
* Lipotrophin-PM/IGF-2
* Any topical/Any fat burner
* Insulin Mimetics/GH or Testosterone booster
Recomping (i.e. "keep BF% low and increase or maintain strength and size")
* IGF-2/NeoVar Recomped (this is the BEST stack I ever used for this; include RPM and Drive and results get a bit better)
* Anadraulic State/Drive/RPM/NeoVar Recomped
* Insulin Mimetics/GH or Testosterone booster
You can find many other examples of stacks out there (these are just a few that I have used). You just need to LOOK for yourself!
~Rosie
Team APPNUT
cirroc
New member
I generally do look for myself, that is what I'm doing now by getting involved in other people's Q&A threads. I have not been interested in any PH-type supplement until recently and have found the information out there to be convoluted. So I'm just looking for a little insight.
Since you posted a pretty detailed response above (which i do appreciate despite me not being the OP) then I hope you don't mind me probing a little further.
In your examples, why did you choose those supps? I'm not talking about the brand name, but the supp itself. Were your choices driven by previous experience with those supps, advice from a friend or did you research and construct a supplement plan?
I began taking two PH's about a week ago, but my plan so far is quite infant and unrefined. Probably fine since I've never dabbled in PH's, but I want to learn how to refine it so I'd like to know why people such as yourself determine what goes in each cycle.
cirroc
New member
if that were true, most of the people on this discussion board would be pathetic fat toads.
nice spelling error while promoting "knowledge".
vocabulary may be the best supplement for you.
Rosie Chee
The Female Terminator
This thread is NOT about HORMONAL products. And my answers, as said are NATURAL stacks. If you have queries re hormonals and PHs then ask them in the Anabolics subforum and start your own thread.
I said of the examples given, if you read, that "these are just a few that I have used". I have used all the supplements and stacks listed. I know how to construct an effective supplement based on goals or what one has available re options given any list of products.
You should NOT have started using hormonals with an "infant and unrefined" plan. Sounds like you have not done enough research, and if you do not know how to plan out a complete PCT then you definitely should NOT have started a cycle. If you've NEVER done something before it's highly recommended that you learn ALL the ins and outs, etc. before "dabbling" in it, especially when it comes to hormonal products. And as a side note, depending on the PH you used, different (cycles and) PCTs will be recommended (although they generally have the same 'support' supplements) based on the compound.
~Rosie
Team APPNUT
thebigt
Legend
this should be a sticky. nice going rosie, that bout says it all.:cheers:
cirroc
New member
take it easy, i wasn't trying to get into a pissing contest nor was i hijacking this thread and turning it into a PH discussion.
i was asking about the stacks you constructed and your thought process behind the particular items within the stack. PH or not, an effective stack is engineering by design. It doesn't matter if you are taking flinstone vitamins, there is and should be a valid reason for that supplementation.
i only stated that my knowledge is limited surrounding these types of products because i have not been exposed to them for years like i have other supps hence my questions and admission of ignorance, with ignorance being a relative term. i may know a lot more than i lead you to believe.
i also wasn't picking at your responses, you seemed to know what you were talking about and i probed for more information. most people are flattered by others seeking them out for knowledge, you on the other hand seem offended and i'm not clear on that.
Rosie Chee
The Female Terminator
And I repeat, I said of the examples given, if you read, that "these are just a few that I have used". Each stack is effective and you can read about my experiences with them in my 2009 training/supplementation journal or various other logs and product reviews I have done.
~Rosie
Team APPNUT
cirroc
New member
it's cool. i wont be asking you anymore questions. you are easily offended by someone asking "why" so i'll move on.
thanks anyway.
DreamWeaver
Legend
Let's make a list of priorities for a natural bodybuilder to be successful
1) Diet. Nothing is going to happen if you're not getting in your basic nutritional requirements. This invovles an ongoing process that is always improving/changing to match your specific need. It takes forever to perfect so your never going to be done making adjustments.
2) Exercise ... see above for duration of adjustment time. Everything works pretty much (within reason) just not for very long.
3) Basic vitamins/protein powders BCAA's etc.
4) Lets throw knowledge in as a priority, it should be earlier perhaps but lets just say for this list were going to use 4 to hold 1,2 and 3 together like a glue. With these for things you should be able to make astounding progress given the right amount of dilligence and patience. This is what is going to make or break you .. the keystone in the building. From here you will grow exponentially. The better you know how to train without extraneous supplementation the better you will do with supps.
5) What natural supps work for you ... lot of factors here, age, reaction etc... keep learning what works for you and it will only really work if 1 through 4 have been looked after. Trial and error; easy at first then start combining things that will address your particular issues. Like all the other steps you have to keep evolving grow more aware of self. If you don't know yourself then how the fug you gonna know what works!!
Many people who do not respond to natural supplementation do you adhere properly to the basic principles. Know how to make advances on next to no supplementation then take supps and watch for the differences. The more sensitive you become to your body the more you'll be able to feel what is happening or not happening with a particular supplement.
1) Diet. Nothing is going to happen if you're not getting in your basic nutritional requirements. This invovles an ongoing process that is always improving/changing to match your specific need. It takes forever to perfect so your never going to be done making adjustments.
2) Exercise ... see above for duration of adjustment time. Everything works pretty much (within reason) just not for very long.
3) Basic vitamins/protein powders BCAA's etc.
4) Lets throw knowledge in as a priority, it should be earlier perhaps but lets just say for this list were going to use 4 to hold 1,2 and 3 together like a glue. With these for things you should be able to make astounding progress given the right amount of dilligence and patience. This is what is going to make or break you .. the keystone in the building. From here you will grow exponentially. The better you know how to train without extraneous supplementation the better you will do with supps.
5) What natural supps work for you ... lot of factors here, age, reaction etc... keep learning what works for you and it will only really work if 1 through 4 have been looked after. Trial and error; easy at first then start combining things that will address your particular issues. Like all the other steps you have to keep evolving grow more aware of self. If you don't know yourself then how the fug you gonna know what works!!
Many people who do not respond to natural supplementation do you adhere properly to the basic principles. Know how to make advances on next to no supplementation then take supps and watch for the differences. The more sensitive you become to your body the more you'll be able to feel what is happening or not happening with a particular supplement.
GoHardOrGoHme
Board Sponsor
Good thread so far
Shapiro....assuming that good diet and a steady workout schedule has been established the BEST natty supplement is relative to the individual. Not every supplement of an herbal nature OR non-hormonal nature (apart from staples like creatine, whey, bcaas, etc) will effect everyone equally. Some work wonders for some and will do nothing for others.
Guesjn gave some GREAT suggestions. Applied Nut. has some supps i have been eyeing for awhile now and will probably order them in the future. I have tried samples of their Drive and RPM(thanks to my very generous friend) and i greatly enjoyed it.
Dexterium suggestions on the Asteroid Stack is my personal fave from experience. I love the products from USP labs and use them as a staple throughout the year. Whether im cutting or strengthening i have something from their arsenal in my pantry. Prime, Powerfull, Anabolic Pump, Recreate, or SuperCissus Rx all great choices.
Anabolic Innovations have some good natural supps. Im currently using glycobol and finding it very effective for cutting. They also came out with testopro which people who are trying it are loving it.
So to say their is a BEST is relative to the individual. You have to go out there and find what is BEST FOR YOU. I would suggest starting with the suggestions on this thread. You have some very trustworthy and wise athletes offering what worked for them. But be warned, these supps are MOST effective as supplements to a solid diet and rigorous workout routine.
Shapiro....assuming that good diet and a steady workout schedule has been established the BEST natty supplement is relative to the individual. Not every supplement of an herbal nature OR non-hormonal nature (apart from staples like creatine, whey, bcaas, etc) will effect everyone equally. Some work wonders for some and will do nothing for others.
Guesjn gave some GREAT suggestions. Applied Nut. has some supps i have been eyeing for awhile now and will probably order them in the future. I have tried samples of their Drive and RPM(thanks to my very generous friend) and i greatly enjoyed it.
Dexterium suggestions on the Asteroid Stack is my personal fave from experience. I love the products from USP labs and use them as a staple throughout the year. Whether im cutting or strengthening i have something from their arsenal in my pantry. Prime, Powerfull, Anabolic Pump, Recreate, or SuperCissus Rx all great choices.
Anabolic Innovations have some good natural supps. Im currently using glycobol and finding it very effective for cutting. They also came out with testopro which people who are trying it are loving it.
So to say their is a BEST is relative to the individual. You have to go out there and find what is BEST FOR YOU. I would suggest starting with the suggestions on this thread. You have some very trustworthy and wise athletes offering what worked for them. But be warned, these supps are MOST effective as supplements to a solid diet and rigorous workout routine.
Rosie Chee
The Female Terminator
Not offended at all, but you asked the same question THREE times when it had ALREADY been answered.
~Rosie
Team APPNUT
A_I_Sports_Nutrition
AI Sports Nutrition
A lot of people like it some do not because of the doms. It is still available.
thebigt
Legend
they are a bit.., but if you have joint problems no nasaid's either. i think the new version has some fish oil included but not sure. after 1 week i was seeing results but was almost a cripple.
rocknout
New member
wow...that doesn't sound too appealing to me! But if you can tolerate it, it sounds like its a legit muscle-building compound. I remember when i researched it last year, many people were reporting lean gains around 10 lbs. I wonder if these gains were permanent for most people?
Dyou
Member
I though ANY synthetic hormone is a steroid
Monta Ellis
New member
not sure what you mean by "strongest" but the most effective imo are creatine mono and glycerol mono.
didnt like ArA
didnt like ArA