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Irish Cannon Gets on AXIS...with AXIS (Hemodraulix + Kitchen Sink)

Irish Cannon said:
Withdrawals? As in depression?
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Yep..the week you come off is not fun but I think its worth it. That being said I wont be using it again for prob another couple months :lol:


A couple things about your workout:

You are warming up with the same weight for multiple sets. And the warm up weight is too close in weight to the working set weight. I would drop the weights and do something like this

set 1 for x weight for 10 reps, set 2 +10 lbs more for 10 reps, set 3 +10lbs more for 6 reps, then your working set +15 more for whatever reps you need to make
 
metroba said:
Yep..the week you come off is not fun but I think its worth it. That being said I wont be using it again for prob another couple months :lol:


A couple things about your workout:

You are warming up with the same weight for multiple sets. And the warm up weight is too close in weight to the working set weight. I would drop the weights and do something like this

set 1 for x weight for 10 reps, set 2 +10 lbs more for 10 reps, set 3 +10lbs more for 6 reps, then your working set +15 more for whatever reps you need to make
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I was thinking about using some, can you elaborate on this a little? did you ween yourself off?
 
hman85 said:
I was thinking about using some, can you elaborate on this a little? did you ween yourself off?
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Yes I did ween myself off. You just get depressed for a week is all. Just like normal depression. Nothing you can really do about it except wait it out. The lower the dose you take obviously the less harsh it will be.
 
metroba said:
Yep..the week you come off is not fun but I think its worth it. That being said I wont be using it again for prob another couple months :lol:


A couple things about your workout:

You are warming up with the same weight for multiple sets. And the warm up weight is too close in weight to the working set weight. I would drop the weights and do something like this

set 1 for x weight for 10 reps, set 2 +10 lbs more for 10 reps, set 3 +10lbs more for 6 reps, then your working set +15 more for whatever reps you need to make
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Gotcha. I'll do that.

metroba said:
Yes I did ween myself off. You just get depressed for a week is all. Just like normal depression. Nothing you can really do about it except wait it out. The lower the dose you take obviously the less harsh it will be.
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That just really doesn't sound cool to me.
 
Some dude at work today said, "Scottie, yo a$$ be gettin' bigguh an' bigguh ever' day, dawg." - Those are the comments I like to hear. :lol:
 
I have no idea how to pose from the back like this, but I figured I'd toss this up since I have a feeling my back is going to add some width/thickness on this program - assuming the diet allows for growth. - See, Met, I've got symmetry issues too...
 
The Order:

I told you guys it would be boring this time...

1x NOW ADAM
1x Dymatize Elite 12hr Protein (Vanilla)
1x Renegade balm
200g L-Tyrosine
100g Horny Goat Weed 20% (I hear this is better than the 50% Icariin)

So that's that. I ditched Relora, RK-500, and GlycerGrow at the last minute. I'll probably get GlycerGrow on my next purchase (I still have a little left; just going to use 2 scoops with SFL pre-workout), but as for Relora and RK, I just don't think I need them.

I want to do this cut, clean. All that matters to me is workout intensity and focus, which is why I have the Hemo, SFL, Tyrosine, and HGW. Diet can take care of the rest. - I think I'm set.
 
DC Day 2

Pretty good workout today. I had a good pump throughout and was feeling pretty solid. Focus was real good and intensity was there. Still getting used to DC, and the stretching thing is something I'll really have to work on; totally foreign to me.

Pre-Workout:

1 heaping scoop Smash FL w/3g additional creatine monohydrate
10x Hemodraulix


A2 - Bis/Forearms/Quads/Hams/Calves

BB Curl - 65x15, 75x12,12, RP: 85x9--> 4--> 4 = 17 reps total
Reverse Curl - 55x13,12,10, RP: 60x8--> 4--> 4 = 16 reps total
Bi/Forearm Stretch​
V-Squat- 135x15, 225x15, 275x12, RP: 315x8--> 5--> 5 = 18 reps total
Quad Stretch​
Prone Leg Curl- 70x15, 90x12, 100x10, RP: 110x5--> 4--> 3 = 12 reps total
Ham Stretch​
Standing Calf Raise - 160x12,9, Donkey Calf Raise- 320x9, RP: 320x 8--> 4 --> 4 = 16 reps total
Calf Stretch​

The stretches are dreadfully painful, but that must mean they're doing something.

Some good news: Our UA store now has a corporate deal with Gold's Gym (I got a bunch of people to sign up) and now I'm only paying $26/month for my gym membership. :)

Diet Update:

Going back to 5 meals/day with BC+EAA/I-GH-1/VitC in place of my 6th meal. Everything is the same except Meal 5 which is now...

2 lean (95/5) turkey burgers
handful of broccoli
1 scoop Dymatize Elite 12hr

2 hours later I have my BC+EAA and other stuff, then hit the sack.
 
The stretches are tough for me too. I almost forgot about doing a couple of them. I also have to get used to the slow negatives (something that I should have been doing forever.) But I know you have been doing the TUT routine so that's similar.

Dude, your lookin yoked in that avi!
 
okay, so i've missed just about all 21 pages... cliffs? all i see is some little guy trying to pose in his skivvies!:laugh2: kiddin, bro.
 
jasonkkk said:
Looking good, bro. How are you liking the DC, and how do you feel at the end of each workout?
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I feel like crap at the end of the workout. :lol: - I feel sluggish, worn out, taxed, and exhausted - Is that redundant enough? - But I feel great otherwise. I've got some nice DOMS in my glutes/hams/quads today, and some minor DOMS in my Biceps - I haven't had DOMS in my glutes for the last 3 months, and one workout on DC and they're blasted. I like. :D
 
Irish Cannon said:
I feel like crap at the end of the workout. :lol: - I feel sluggish, worn out, taxed, and exhausted - Is that redundant enough? - But I feel great otherwise. I've got some nice DOMS in my glutes/hams/quads today, and some minor DOMS in my Biceps - I haven't had DOMS in my glutes for the last 3 months, and one workout on DC and they're blasted. I like. :D
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Yeah, DOMS'ing your legs without heavy squats and hacks is difficult. It's good that you found an alternative that suffices!
 
Firstly, I see no asymmrety! :nutkick:

You need to do hams before quads.

Also when you do your quad exercise, you should hit a set of about 6-10 reps after your warm up sets..THEN do a widow set.

Dont rest pause forearms. Do a straight set of 12-20 reps. As Imprez has taught me, its best to stay in the upper rep range.

Now for calves, its not a rest pause..you warm them up with around 10-12 reps. Then you do a heavy set that you would struggle doing 8 with for 12 reps. On each rep, you hold it for 15 seconds at the bottom of the movement, explode up, and then a 5 second negative.

Don't worry about it bro..DC isnt easy to understand. It will get easy everytime. It just takes some learning and understanding. Still, the workout looked great bro!
 
A:
Chest
Delt
Tri
Back width
Back thickness

B:
Bi
Forearm
calf
hams
quad

Dont rest pause quads, back thickness, forearms, calves, and "some" ham movements(rdl, stiff dl, sumo presses)

Quads get a heavy set(6-10) then a widowmaker of 20reps(or more if you got it in you). Pick a weight you would normally get for 10-12, and get 20 basically.

Forarms- straight set 12-20


I would also bump rep ranges on leg curls, for safety sake.
 
Maybe I'm understanding this wrong, but unless you have some serious static contraction at the end of your reverse wrist curls, I don't see how a single set of 12-20 would do anything significant for forearm strength or size.

I can see the benefits from the intensity of other DC movements, such as the 3 sets rest-pause squats to widow makers, but a single working set of forearms for 12-20 reps, eh.

For strength, forearms are best trained with static contractions anyway, their sole use are to maintain static contractions (to grip). I don't think anything in life requires you to tighten & release your forearms in mitigated spurts.

For (bodybuilding) size, isotonic movements are the way to go, but a single set? Considering static contractions require greater effort and are a contractile force greater then an isotonic movement, compounded by the fact that the forearms are used 99.9% of the time in a static contractile state, using an isotonic movement, which is a second rate effort for the forearms and for a single set (assuming I'm understanding this right) is a bit silly.

P.S. I'm not attacking or being confrontational about DC, I like DC in general and have used a DC/Mentzer HIT modified style myself. I'm raising an inquiry based on reason (and I reiterate, I may have misunderstood). I have no issues with getting put in check if I'm rebutted with some sound reasoning, but, because Dante said so doesn't count.
 
The problem I have with the whole thing is the idea that you have to follow strict guidelines for the program. It wasn't at all meant to be used that way, nor has any other program. I've changed things for my own personal reasons. I've got a debilitating back injury, and an overly-tight right hamstring. If I have to make a few switcharoos, I'm going to.
 
Irish Cannon said:
The problem I have with the whole thing is the idea that you have to follow strict guidelines for the program. It wasn't at all meant to be used that way, nor has any other program. I've changed things for my own personal reasons. I've got a debilitating back injury, and an overly-tight right hamstring. If I have to make a few switcharoos, I'm going to.
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I agree with implementing necessary modifications (to anything). However, I actually disagree with the progression in general to be honest.

A:
Chest
Delt
Tri
Back width
Back thickness

I see the logic of chest/delt/tri in that specific progression, but I'd put back thickness first, back width second, then chest/delt/tri. In terms of energy requirements and expenditure, back outweighs chest by quite a bit. I would think it most logical to put the most energy demanding lifts first.

B:
Bi
Forearm
calf
hams
quad

I also don't know why calves would come before hams & quads. Or why arms would be performed before legs.

All that said, I think I recall Dante once saying in an interview or in a magazine that DC wasn't necessarily meant to be followed to the letter, but is more so a guideline. Though I'm not fully certain he said that, it's a blurry memory.
 
Irish Cannon said:
The problem I have with the whole thing is the idea that you have to follow strict guidelines for the program. It wasn't at all meant to be used that way, nor has any other program. I've changed things for my own personal reasons. I've got a debilitating back injury, and an overly-tight right hamstring. If I have to make a few switcharoos, I'm going to.
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I agree with necessary modifications (in anything.) However, I actually disagree with the progression in general to be honest.

A:
Chest
Delt
Tri
Back width
Back thickness

I see the logic of chest/delt/tri in that specific progression, but I'd put back thickness first, back width second, then chest/delt/tri. In terms of energy requirements and expenditure, back outweighs chest by quite a bit. I would think it most logical to put the most energy demanding lifts first. The smaller the muscle, the less they are effected by general fatigue...ie delts/tri's. Large, compound muscles groups are much more susceptible to general fatigue, ie. back, in comparison chest/delts/tris.


B:
Bi
Forearm
calf
hams
quad

I also don't know why calves would come before hams & quads. Or why arms would be performed before legs.

All that said, I think I recall Dante once saying in an interview or in a magazine that DC wasn't necessarily meant to be followed to the letter, but is more so a guideline. Though I'm not fully certain he said that, it's a blurry memory.
 
VolcomX311 said:
All that said, I think I recall Dante once saying in an interview or in a magazine that DC wasn't necessarily meant to be followed to the letter, but is more so a guideline. Though I'm not fully certain he said that, it's a blurry memory.
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He definitely did, which is why I don't see the need to follow the program to the T. - As I've mentioned before, once I get used to the routine I'll start incorporating "DC sets" into my workouts, but not use the program so strictly.

As for the progression of the lifts, I have no problem doing back last. While it's the most energy-expending, it's probably also my least troubling for growth. I need my delts/chest/tris to grow more than my back.
 
Irish Cannon said:
He definitely did, which is why I don't see the need to follow the program to the T. - As I've mentioned before, once I get used to the routine I'll start incorporating "DC sets" into my workouts, but not use the program so strictly.

As for the progression of the lifts, I have no problem doing back last. While it's the most energy-expending, it's probably also my least troubling for growth. I need my delts/chest/tris to grow more than my back.
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Ya, it may be a guideline in the sense that you can pick your own exercises, etc. But should be followed to a T, by anyone new to it. How can you know that this wont work best for you, before trying it?

I think Dante said everyone except Dave Henry, he started on the same 2 way split.


As for your ham injury, that is why you should bump rep ranges, as i said. Obviously if you have injuries, you should work around them, but Rp'ng hams in the 10-12 range isn't going to help.

But at the end of the day, do you.

I thought you were interested in DC training, that is why i chimed in, to help with some things you are doing, that could lead to injury(rp'ng squats, low hamstring reps, etc). If you are doing IC training, then that is a different story. lol
 
I definitely wouldn't RP Squats, but V-Squats are...well...V-Squats. It's such a more controlled movement. And 15 deep breaths is quite a rest. To me, that's just barely passing for a RP. Sometimes I jump back to the exercise after 10 breaths...even that seems long to me.

I was a little weary of the hamstring RP sets, but they didn't cause any issues, but I definitely wouldn't do that for RDL or SLDL. I can't do those right now anyways, though. For the stretch I had to just bend down and touch my toes. No way I can hold a bar down there for 90 seconds.
 
Just threw back

1.5 scoops SFL
10x Hemo
1g Horny Goat Weed
1.5g l-tyrosine
1 NOW ADAM
1.5g MACA

SHipppppp the erngezzzzzzzzz. Going to toss on some of dat der Renegade and hit up my 2nd Chest/Shoulder/Tri/Back/Trap workout.
 
I gotta be honest. I don't know what I think about this DC stuff. I'm going to go it the full 6 weeks as I do with any new routine, but I just don't know. I definitely could see incorporating the DC lifts and stretches into a routine, but strictly doing these workouts...:dunno: - The intensity is just kind of lacking. I get bored. 3 sets, rest-pause set, stretch, on to the next. Yippee. Is it just me? I mean, I look good in the mirror. Pump is decent...But the workout is just kinda...bleh.

I'll do a full update later.
 
I see why you switched things around IC and I dont blame you. Imprez is who taught me DC (as well as AZ) but he can help you. I understand if you want to do a DC/IC crossbred routine. Im sure it would still yield some amazing results! How is the back feeling since doing that workout?

And that is a hellacious pre w/o stack der buddy!
 
Irish Cannon said:
I gotta be honest. I don't know what I think about this DC stuff. I'm going to go it the full 6 weeks as I do with any new routine, but I just don't know. I definitely could see incorporating the DC lifts and stretches into a routine, but strictly doing these workouts...:dunno: - The intensity is just kind of lacking. I get bored. 3 sets, rest-pause set, stretch, on to the next. Yippee. Is it just me? I mean, I look good in the mirror. Pump is decent...But the workout is just kinda...bleh.

I'll do a full update later.
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That sucks bro. DC works I know it does. A lot of people can attest to that. It just take some time and getting used to. This is why a lot of people bail on out on it. I bailed out on it after like 3 weeks or some sh2t...but I assure you it is worth it..now that I am sticking to it. I say stick with it. If after 6 weeks you really are unsatisfied then by all means switch things up. I am surprised you are bored with the routine. I get so amped hitting bigger numbers every time! Guess its not for everyone :dunno:
 
Well, this is just my opinion but I'm not sure DC is the best for cutting. I know Dante says it's fine for cutting but I look at DCas a way to put on mass by gaining strength and upping poundages every week (hopefully!). And during a cut, the main focus is to MAINTAIN strength and muscle. That's just my take.

When I was cuttting, I actuallyy did a 4x per week routine but the Friday w/o was strictly a depletion w/o. I just wanted to make sure my glycogen stores were empty so that I could have a couple carb meals. So the weight was lower and sometimes I wasnt able to finish.
 
metroba said:
That sucks bro. DC works I know it does. A lot of people can attest to that. It just take some time and getting used to. This is why a lot of people bail on out on it. I bailed out on it after like 3 weeks or some sh2t...but I assure you it is worth it..now that I am sticking to it. I say stick with it. If after 6 weeks you really are unsatisfied then by all means switch things up. I am surprised you are bored with the routine. I get so amped hitting bigger numbers every time! Guess its not for everyone :dunno:
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I'm not at all saying it doesn't work. I've seen dudes make some serious progress on it on here, not to mention some of the guys that advocate it are MONSTERS.

It could be a number of things; like the shoulder stretch annoys me cause (1) I don't think I'm doing it right, and (2) the Smith is always being used and it's hard to get in there to do a stretch. - Are there alternate stretches I could do?

The pump isn't what I'm used to. It's okay, but not nearly as good as it was on TUT.

I could still be frustrated with my back; knowing you can't do big lifts that you love such as Squats, Deads, RDLs, etc., it sucks and puts me down mentally.

However, the DOMS are delicious. It's nice to have sore glutes/hams/quads from Wednesday.

As I said, I'll definitely give it the full amount of time. I'm not one to ditch a routine just because I had a single so-so workout.

I'm also pissed off that I'm so much weaker than I was during my Epi PCT. This is the first time I've started moving heavy weight again and it's not pretty. My CG Bench back then was like 225x5. I think I did 165x6 today. Although my Tris may have just been real tired at that point.
 
tyler4 said:
Well, this is just my opinion but I'm not sure DC is the best for cutting. I know Dante says it's fine for cutting but I look at DCas a way to put on mass by gaining strength and upping poundages every week (hopefully!). And during a cut, the main focus is to MAINTAIN strength and muscle. That's just my take.

When I was cuttting, I actuallyy did a 4x per week routine but the Friday w/o was strictly a depletion w/o. I just wanted to make sure my glycogen stores were empty so that I could have a couple carb meals. So the weight was lower and sometimes I wasnt able to finish.
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Apparently you're not familiar with the IC-Cutting program ;) - I still expect strength gains on a cut. I don't doubt DC will provide them, I'm just saying the workout didn't get me as mentally jolted as past routines.
 
Irish Cannon said:
I'm not at all saying it doesn't work. I've seen dudes make some serious progress on it on here, not to mention some of the guys that advocate it are MONSTERS.

It could be a number of things; like the shoulder stretch annoys me cause (1) I don't think I'm doing it right, and (2) the Smith is always being used and it's hard to get in there to do a stretch. - Are there alternate stretches I could do?

The pump isn't what I'm used to. It's okay, but not nearly as good as it was on TUT.

I could still be frustrated with my back; knowing you can't do big lifts that you love such as Squats, Deads, RDLs, etc., it sucks and puts me down mentally.

However, the DOMS are delicious. It's nice to have sore glutes/hams/quads from Wednesday.

As I said, I'll definitely give it the full amount of time. I'm not one to ditch a routine just because I had a single so-so workout.

I'm also pissed off that I'm so much weaker than I was during my Epi PCT. This is the first time I've started moving heavy weight again and it's not pretty. My CG Bench back then was like 225x5. I think I did 165x6 today. Although my Tris may have just been real tired at that point.
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Irish Cannon said:
Apparently you're not familiar with the IC-Cutting program ;) - I still expect strength gains on a cut. I don't doubt DC will provide them, I'm just saying the workout didn't get me as mentally jolted as past routines.
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I totally understand man. The things I look foward to most in this program are the lifts you are missing out on. I wish I knew to what to say to make ya feel better but Im at a loss. Just be patient and see how it goes despite not having those lifts involved. A shoulder stretch you could do is: grap a stick very wide grip and start with it in front of you and then raise is up and behind you. Ill try and find a vid for you. You can do it with a towel too.
I was about to say the same thing lol. Tyler, IC knows his **** when it comes to recomp. He somehow defies the laws of cutting and gets stronger :wtf: I know its crazy but he does it..punk:privateeye:
 
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IC.. You can do the shoulder stretch in a power rack/squat rack, sometimes ill even grab the dip bar and do it. You can even do it with a cable, with single handle.

For me the "pump" really comes from stretching. My bi's may not be super pumped after my working set, but after stretching they are full as ****. And at the end of the day, if i am growing, i could give 2 ****s about a "pump"

You gotta do what you like. For me, i am amped up every workout. I love it. If you don't find it "fun" then do something else. You shouldn't have to be bored.
 
Irish Cannon said:
Apparently you're not familiar with the IC-Cutting program ;) - I still expect strength gains on a cut. I don't doubt DC will provide them, I'm just saying the workout didn't get me as mentally jolted as past routines.
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Thinking back, I also got stronger on some lifts during my cut, so I may have been off base there. But I guess my mentality was getting stronger was icing on the cake if I could lose BF efficiently.
 
tyler4 said:
Thinking back, I also got stronger on some lifts during my cut, so I may have been off base there. But I guess my mentality was getting stronger was icing on the cake if I could lose BF efficiently.
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Let me ask you this..

If you were using a program, and gained a tremendous amount of muscle, why would you switch what got you there, just because you are dieting?
 
imprezivr6 said:
Let me ask you this..

If you were using a program, and gained a tremendous amount of muscle, why would you switch what got you there, just because you are dieting?
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LOL, I'm not saying my philosphy is correct. If I had all the answers, I wouldnt be 6'0 175, lol. I'm always open to learning.

But yea, to your question. (I think I may have read where Dante asks this too) I guesss my answer would be that my personal outlook on DC is a "mass routine." BUT, I am just now starting, so this may change soon.

I guess if I did do DC on a cut, I would expect strength gains, just not on the same level as when bulking.
 
tyler4 said:
LOL, I'm not saying my philosphy is correct. If I had all the answers, I wouldnt be 6'0 170, lol. I'm always open to learning.

But yea, to your question. (I think I may have read where Dante asks this too) I guesss my answer would be that my personal outlook on DC is a "mass routine." BUT, I am just now starting, so this may change soon.

I guess if I did do DC on a cut, I would expect strength gains, just not on the same level as when bulking.
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Exactly..I will stick with DC for as long as I continue to train. I love this routine and it works for me. I will even use it on a cut.
 
metroba said:
Exactly..I will stick with DC for as long as I continue to train. I love this routine and it works for me. I will even use it on a cut.
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This is what I don't understand...Why is DC looked at as the only routine that you can use for the rest of your life? Why would you not change things up. I don't get it.
 
Irish Cannon said:
This is what I don't understand...Why is DC looked at as the only routine that you can use for the rest of your life? Why would you not change things up. I don't get it.
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I dont plan on running DC forever either, but you can always switch exercises and still do DC.
 
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