Homosexual behaviour widespread in animals according to new study

[HardTrainer]

I don't think I've ever seen such willful disregard for logic or reason.

NattyT, you've managed to make the people who agree with your beliefs argue against you. As far as rhetorical skills go, that's blindingly awful.

 

[Mulletsoldier]

I don't think I've ever seen such willful disregard for logic or reason.

NattyT, you've managed to make the people who agree with your beliefs argue against you. As far as rhetorical skills go, that's blindingly awful.

Haha...

 

[NattyT]

Do not deal with them...and yet somehow witness to them and love them as thyself?


Do you really not see the contradiction you just typed? Do you REALLY not see it, and understand why anyone who has any respect for logical consistency just discarded pretty much anything you have to say from now on?

No, you can witness and share the gospel with them, that dosent mean hang out and approve of there lifestyle. Jesus Didnt hang out and kick it with these folks, he didnt indulge in there lifestyles. He sat and spoke with them about the gospel and what was coming and why they needed to change. If people did not receive the words he spoke then he shook the dust off his feet and left them alone. I can be around my brother but that dosent mean I hang out with him that dosent mean I accept his lifestyle. I can still witness to him but if he dosent recive it then all I can do is pray for him. There is bo contradiction in that. Your just trying to twist what Im saying.

 

[NattyT]

The light does not mingle with darkness...it lights the darkness.

Christ himself lived with, ate with, and called friend many sinners, prostitutes, tax collector and worse. If a doctor is repulsed by sickness to the point that he cannot keep company with it how then can he treat it.

1 Corinthians 13

Love

If I speak in the tongues of men and of angels, but have not love, I am only a resounding gong or a clanging cymbal. If I have the gift of prophecy and can fathom all mysteries and all knowledge, and if I have a faith that can move mountains, but have not love, I am nothing. If I give all I possess to the poor and surrender my body to the flames, but have not love, I gain nothing.

Love is patient, love is kind. It does not envy, it does not boast, it is not proud. It is not rude, it is not self-seeking, it is not easily angered, it keeps no record of wrongs. Love does not delight in evil but rejoices with the truth. It always protects, always trusts, always hopes, always perseveres.

Love never fails. But where there are prophecies, they will cease; where there are tongues, they will be stilled; where there is knowledge, it will pass away. For we know in part and we prophesy in part, but when perfection comes, the imperfect disappears. When I was a child, I talked like a child, I thought like a child, I reasoned like a child. When I became a man, I put childish ways behind me. Now we see but a poor reflection as in a mirror; then we shall see face to face. Now I know in part; then I shall know fully, even as I am fully known.

B5150 The thing you have to understand is that this letter is to the church at Corinth not to sinners, Nice try on trying to correct me. All Pauls letters are adressing the church not the world. Not the unsaved. How can paul adress people that didnt know Christ in these letters. All of pauls letters were to the church. What about when he says not to even eat with a sinning brother or sister and to cu t off communication with them if they continued in the sinful lifestyle opposite to the churches belifs. Dont try and school me on this, Ive been reading Corinthians for about 2 months now and studying it. The whole point of Corinthians was to correct the behavior that was going on in the church. Please stop. I repeat the Paul was adressing the church not the world.

 

[dsade]

B5150 The thing you have to understand is that this letter is to the church at Corinth not to sinners, Nice try on trying to correct me. All Pauls letters are adressing the church not the world. Not the unsaved. How can paul adress people that didnt know Christ in these letters. All of pauls letters were to the church. What about when he says not to even eat with a sinning brother or sister and to cu t off communication with them if they continued in the sinful lifestyle opposite to the churches belifs. Dont try and school me on this, Ive been reading Corinthians for about 2 months now and studying it. The whole point of Corinthians was to correct the behavior that was going on in the church. Please stop. I repeat the Paul was adressing the church not the world.

Looks like Paul's beliefs were at odds with what Jesus taught and practiced.

In other words, contradictory..

EDIT: I bet you are a blast in restaurants, movie theatres, etc - you know, surrounded by sinner scum.

 

[AE14]

That being ignorant is your opinion my freind. This is not the first thread were I have spoken with Dsade so i said that based on past times as well. That is clearly my opinion as well to say what I said so dont knock me.

Now what is Ignorant is you saying that the exodus story is a fallacy. I mean you stated that like you have proof or you have found out somthing that no one else knows. Come on buddy, lets get real. Oh you must of watched the history channel or somthing and got that wordly wisdom from there. There is more proof that it did happen than it didnt. They have found all sorts of artifacts at the bottom of the sea and a host of other things that show that the exodus did happen. The story is even told in the carvings of some of trhe pyramids.

God is loving but that dosent mean that he cant envoke his wrath on your disobediance. He gave the Egyptians plenty of chances thrue the signs that were performed. They still chose, so they had to bite the bullet.

First of all your just a man that is made of dirt, nothing more then that. Your life span is short and once your gone then what. How can a man have the ordasity to try and judge God because he chose to do what he had done. How can the creation try and tell the Creator what is wrong, either you roll our get rolled on. With all the wicked ness in the world today is because of the Grace of God that he has let us remain this long. If he didnt love man kind then he would have done away with us. Its like a Dog and his owner that keeps getting bit by his dog, how many times you gone let that dog bite you befor you put his tail to sleep. God has compasion but hes no fool, and it dosent take a rocket scientist to see that this world is getting worse day by day, and there is no way we as human beings can change it. Unless God intervines we will destroy our selves.

The thing that is funny (not realy) is that you dont have a clue. The devil has people so blind that they act as if he dosent exist. He stays in the background using you guys to spread his lies. Then you pointing the finger at God as if hes the problem. I remember a movie that said the greatest trick the devil ever played was making people belive he didnt exist.

The thing you guys have to stop doing is trying to explain what is spiritual by wordly natural wisdom. You cant do it, and trying to is ignorant. Insanity is defined as doing the same thing and getting the same negative results. Stop the insanity please.:wave2:

Where to begin with this rant. Evidently, your knowledge and understanding of the events that lead up to and surrounded the supposed Exodus are limited at best. My assumption is that you have done no research outside of the bible on the event, and in fact have not even done research into the Egyptians themselves. Until you go down that road, and make a concerted effort to realize who they were, and what they stood for, please dont embarass yourself. Also, please make sure you understand as well, that the word Pharaoh is not even an egyptian word, in fact it is a roman word, which is laughable that the pillar of truth known as the bible would have Moses call the Egpytian king Pharaoh. Wow, how accurate.

Finally, how can I have the audacity to judge god? Well, if I am created in gods image, and likeness etc.. and of course was granted free will, obviously I should judge in my own search for truth. I think you read the OT/NT and just are fearful of anything outside of its words. Its a shame you truly live under a rock

One thought here, dont assume where I get my info from. You do not know me or what my career is or what my qualifications are. Once again, you embarass yourself.

 

[NattyT]

The light does not mingle with darkness...it lights the darkness.

Christ himself lived with, ate with, and called friend many sinners, prostitutes, tax collector and worse. If a doctor is repulsed by sickness to the point that he cannot keep company with it how then can he treat it.

1 Corinthians 13

Love

If I speak in the tongues of men and of angels, but have not love, I am only a resounding gong or a clanging cymbal. If I have the gift of prophecy and can fathom all mysteries and all knowledge, and if I have a faith that can move mountains, but have not love, I am nothing. If I give all I possess to the poor and surrender my body to the flames, but have not love, I gain nothing.

Love is patient, love is kind. It does not envy, it does not boast, it is not proud. It is not rude, it is not self-seeking, it is not easily angered, it keeps no record of wrongs. Love does not delight in evil but rejoices with the truth. It always protects, always trusts, always hopes, always perseveres.

Love never fails. But where there are prophecies, they will cease; where there are tongues, they will be stilled; where there is knowledge, it will pass away. For we know in part and we prophesy in part, but when perfection comes, the imperfect disappears. When I was a child, I talked like a child, I thought like a child, I reasoned like a child. When I became a man, I put childish ways behind me. Now we see but a poor reflection as in a mirror; then we shall see face to face. Now I know in part; then I shall know fully, even as I am fully known.

1 Corinthians 5:11 But now I have written to you not to keep company with anyone named a brother who is sexually immoral, or covtetous, or an idolater, or a raviler, or a drunkard, or an extortioner-not even to eat withsuch a person. For what have I to do with judgingthose also who are outside? Do you not judge those who are inside? But those who are outside God Judges. Therefor put away from yourseves the evil person.

 

[NattyT]

Where to begin with this rant. Evidently, your knowledge and understanding of the events that lead up to and surrounded the supposed Exodus are limited at best. My assumption is that you have done no research outside of the bible on the event, and in fact have not even done research into the Egyptians themselves. Until you go down that road, and make a concerted effort to realize who they were, and what they stood for, please dont embarass yourself. Also, please make sure you understand as well, that the word Pharaoh is not even an egyptian word, in fact it is a roman word, which is laughable that the pillar of truth known as the bible would have Moses call the Egpytian king Pharaoh. Wow, how accurate.

Finally, how can I have the audacity to judge god? Well, if I am created in gods image, and likeness etc.. and of course was granted free will, obviously I should judge in my own search for truth. I think you read the OT/NT and just are fearful of anything outside of its words. Its a shame you truly live under a rock

One thought here, dont assume where I get my info from. You do not know me or what my career is or what my qualifications are. Once again, you embarass yourself.

man you still talkin about the Exodus? Im gonna exodus this convo with you. The exodus was not my focus, holla

 

[dsade]

man you still talkin about the Exodus? Im gonna exodus this convo with you. The exodus was not my focus, holla

It might not have been your focus, but you tried to use it as a premise to prove something.

Rules of Logic 101 - invalid premises do NOT add credence to a conclusion.

 

[NattyT]

Looks like Paul's beliefs were at odds with what Jesus taught and practiced.

In other words, contradictory..

EDIT: I bet you are a blast in restaurants, movie theatres, etc - you know, surrounded by sinner scum.

No it wasnt contradictory, Pauls job was to establish the church and the way it was ran along with the other disciple's, Jesus was the Foundation and they built on it. I am a blast to be around and most people that meet me have nothing but good things to say, I share my faith and it is what it is. I dont disrespect them or look down on them. I was once like them, I dont boast because I am nothing but dirt and will return to the dirt. I boast in the cross, because it saved me. I dont have anything they cant have.

 

[NattyT]

It might not have been your focus, but you tried to use it as a premise to prove something.

Rules of Logic 101 - invalid premises do NOT add credence to a conclusion.

No freind I never mentioned the Exodus your pal did, I refered to Pharoah and he started the Exodus thing and how its a Fallacy. Im not paying attention to him. If I may correct you sir.

 

[HardTrainer]

EDIT: Post removed. Too much potential to cause offence.

 

[B5150]

B5150 The thing you have to understand is that this letter is to the church at Corinth not to sinners, Nice try on trying to correct me. All Pauls letters are adressing the church not the world. Not the unsaved. How can paul adress people that didnt know Christ in these letters. All of pauls letters were to the church. What about when he says not to even eat with a sinning brother or sister and to cu t off communication with them if they continued in the sinful lifestyle opposite to the churches belifs. Dont try and school me on this, Ive been reading Corinthians for about 2 months now and studying it. The whole point of Corinthians was to correct the behavior that was going on in the church. Please stop. I repeat the Paul was adressing the church not the world.

So you don't go to a prison to minister to convicts who may need to be saved because they are convicts? You don't do outreach to substance abuse and alcoholics because they are substance abusers and alcoholic? You don't come along someone who is in adultery and or fornicating to witness to him because he is an adulterer or fornicator? You don't share the truth of the gospel with a homosexual because he is homosexual? The list goes on.

I'm not going to school you. You obvioulsy are very firm in your belief.

Unfortunately my belief is that there are far too many overzealous Christians who are repelling the non-believer with their legalism and fire and brimstone message and they are failing to fulfill the great commision by doing so.

It puts me at great odds when I find more "rational" dialoge with non-believers than I do with overzealous believers. These non-believers know where I stand, and I believe have earned their respect, in my walk and witness, and therefore AM a greater witness - they have embraced me - and inherently my witness of Christ.

I'm not going to argue with you. Do as you will.

 

[EasyEJL]

It puts me at great odds when I find more "rational" dialoge with non-believers than I do with overzealous believers.

Well, I can help there because although non-religious, i'm all for not ministering to the convicts, drug and alcohol addicts, adulterers and homosexuals. People make their choices in life and they need to be responsible for themselves. If a child didn't feel pain when he stuck his hand in a fire, he'd just stick it in over and over again. And if the only time the child got attention from outsiders was when he stuck his hand in a fire, then whether he feels pain or not he'll just do it again and again. So i'm all for allowing consequences to actions, alcoholism is not a disease. Do people have a predisposition to it? Yes, but they also have to raise the bottle to their mouth, which requires free will.

But I know what you mean, I appreciate your religious view more than most, and its more in line with what i consider christianity to really mean. Perhaps the fact that so many christians believe and act otherwise is a part of why so many people become distanced from the churches and religion in general

 

[Burner]

This is becoming even more disheartening.

I don’t need approval of people who don't share my beliefs, but it's certainly not my goal to intentionally have the same people hate me and who I claim to know by doing anything outside a motivation of love. I guess loving people can mean different things, but it’s a lot easier to do so when you really know the person and they know you really care about them. God pursues us because He loves us, not because he wants to point out all out shortcomings.

 

[NattyT]

So you don't go to a prison to minister to convicts who may need to be saved because they are convicts? You don't do outreach to substance abuse and alcoholics because they are substance abusers and alcoholic? You don't come along someone who is in adultery and or fornicating to witness to him because he is an adulterer or fornicator? You don't share the truth of the gospel with a homosexual because he is homosexual? The list goes on.

I'm not going to school you. You obvioulsy are very firm in your belief.

Unfortunately my belief is that there are far too many overzealous Christians who are repelling the non-believer with their legalism and fire and brimstone message and they are failing to fulfill the great commision by doing so.

It puts me at great odds when I find more "rational" dialoge with non-believers than I do with overzealous believers. These non-believers know where I stand, and I believe have earned their respect, in my walk and witness, and therefore AM a greater witness - they have embraced me - and inherently my witness of Christ.

I'm not going to argue with you. Do as you will.

Well im not overzealous, and I never said dont witness to the lost, your putting words in my mouth. I witness to them all the time, but either there going to receive it or they are not if not uou move on to the next, its a seed planted. Hanging out and being in cahoots with them is somthing diffrent my freind. I never said being around sinners was wrong, If I thought that then I wouldnt step out the house. But the natural man does not receive the things of the spirit of God, for they are foolishness to him; nor can he know them because they are spiritualy discerned, But he who is spiritual judges all things, yet he himself is rightely judged by no one. For who have known the mind of the lord that he may instruct Him, But we have the mind of Christ. You do you and Ill do me.

 

[NattyT]

EDIT: Post removed. Too much potential to cause offence.

Im actually Black, sorry to disapoint.

 

[B5150]

But the natural man does not receive the things of the spirit of God,

...yet!

 

[NattyT]

You know what, this is my last comment, because I have to spend time with my children. Im not on here to offend anyone, and non of you can tell me whats in my heart as I type these things. My goal is to focus and educate others when they speak lies aginst the word of god, not that I have to defend it, because it does it on its own. Im not here to come down on any one, God gave us freedom to choose our path, who am I that I can take it away. Free will is your gift or curse, now there are a lot of so called belivers that are stradiling the fince, and not speaking the truth.

I dont mind the hate, Jesus said if your like me then the world will hate you because it first hated me. If your freinds with the world then your a enemy of God, the bible says it I didnt. So when we realy speak the uncut truth and engage the world then youll get some negative feedback, and thats fine because I dont live to please men I live to please Him.

I love each and every one of you and wont nothing more then the best but thats your choice not mine. If you choose to live a lifestyle thats aginst what the bible says then go hard. If you know that there is more to life then whats here and is passing away each and everyday then choose life. Baecause this is prelife 70-100 years is nothing compaierd to eternity. We dont get rewrded for doing what we choose to do by contributing to a world that is in a despirate state negativly.

I have been ganged up on and cyber stoned for speaking what I belive is truth even people that say they are belivers are getting at me, but yet I have said nothing that is not written, we cant stradle the fince. Im just that soldier that is willing to take the fire for what has to be said. Rather it be in the streets or the Computer.

 

[AE14]

man you still talkin about the Exodus? Im gonna exodus this convo with you. The exodus was not my focus, holla

What? honestly you are right to say you should leave this thread. You have not added anything constructive to it. My best advice, do some actually study to familiarize yourself with the topics you claim to "know".

It might not have been your focus, but you tried to use it as a premise to prove something.

Rules of Logic 101 - invalid premises do NOT add credence to a conclusion.

He is a lost puppy

 

[NattyT]

What? honestly you are right to say you should leave this thread. You have not added anything constructive to it. My best advice, do some actually study to familiarize yourself with the topics you claim to "know".


He is a lost puppy

let it go man, your still talking about that. PLEASE.:sleeping:

 

[B5150]

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Invalid Link Removed

 

[AE14]

let it go man, your still talking about that. PLEASE.:sleeping:

This will be my last comment directed towards you: I find it humerous and sad at the same time that YOU bring up (take a look back and see that you were the first to mention the exodus)a topic and once you are shown how foolish you are, you act as though you never brought it up. Do us all a favor, do as you said, go some place else

 

[NattyT]

:sleeping:

This will be my last comment directed towards you: I find it humerous and sad at the same time that YOU bring up a topic and once you are shown how foolish you are, you act as though you never brought it up. Do us all a favor, do as you said, go some plac

I was never talking to you, nor do I wish to, You were better off not even saying anything else to me. If I could remeber correcctly your the one that began this topic and were looking for some one with christans belifs to comment. Cracking jokes and being antagonisic is more like it. Point of the matter is you wanted this. Dont say you didnt because I read it.

You were trying to come to Dsade rescue or somthing to make you feel important or somthing, other then that I wouldnt have even acknowledged you son. You must have got some info on the exodus and thats all you can contribute. :sleeping: Do like the avatar and let it rest fella. And no one showed me how foolish I was nor proved me wrong on anything I said, I got tired like im getting now.:006:

 

[B5150]

Invalid Link Removed

Invalid Link Removed

Now I preface that as a Christian I see homosexuality no different than any inclination toward depravity. At the root of all sin is a desire to do what comes natural, whether it be sexuality, steeling, adultery, anger, envy, greed, what have you. But I also see them all as a result of a spiritual defecit rather than a moral defecit, as I see morality a practice of will and choice and spirituality of a nature.

When I look back at my past depravities I have often phrased it as "what [who] would have possessed me to do....". Enough said. JMHO.

Now for something so natural it seems to bare so little fruit in the human species. It is not biologically reproductive. It produces a plethora of physical health issue from AIDS to cancers, hepatitis, etc. Yet supposedly it is natural, yet it is inherently counter prodcutive in its fruits in the physical sense.

When you look at it in the human social-psychological realm it is equally desasterous. It is associated with all sorts of mental health issues. I find it quite ironic that there is so much mental health disorders associated with homosexuality. Too many to be casual and suggestive that the homosexuality is a symptom of the psychological disorders, whether genetic or environmental.

There is a defecit in the programming whether you chose to call it psychological or spiritual as there is little to no fruitfulness in this so called natural inclination.

You may chose to validate it's occurance by cross species but that does not mean there isn't something wrong with the wiring when a male or female human engages in homosexual realtions and relationship. I'm not saying they are bad, but it lack virtually any fruit in both the physcial or psychological realms.

 

[EasyEJL]

Cancer, diabetes, trisonomy 17 are all also natural.

 

[AE14]

Dsdade has a cold heart, its like pharoh when mosses was trying to tell him what God was doing, his heart was so cold and hard he couldnt understand. The more people try and refute the truth of the bible the harder ther heart gets. Ill pray for that dude tonight.

just proving my point son.

I was never talking to you, nor do I wish to, You were better off not even saying anything else to me. If I could remeber correcctly your the one that began this topic and were looking for some one with christans belifs to comment. Cracking jokes and being antagonisic is more like it. Point of the matter is you wanted this. Dont say you didnt because I read it.

You were trying to come to Dsade rescue or somthing to make you feel important or somthing, other then that I wouldnt have even acknowledged you son. You must have got some info on the exodus and thats all you can contribute. :sleeping: Do like the avatar and let it rest fella. And no one showed me how foolish I was nor proved me wrong on anything I said, I got tired like im getting now.:006:

the bolded section proves your silliness and lack on comprehension. However, please go elsewhere, as has already been stated you have even turned the most patient christians (B5150) against your behavior.

 

[Mulletsoldier]

Cancer, diabetes, trisonomy 17 are all also natural.

Yes, but those are pathological states, Easy. They are so-called "disease states", whereas homosexuality is not; as we have seen, it is quite the opposite, and confers a directed survival benefit. I see what you are trying to establish here, but disagree with the logical link, for these reasons.

 

[NattyT]

Now I preface that as a Christian I see homosexuality no different than any inclination toward depravity. At the root of all sin is a desire to do what comes natural, whether it be sexuality, steeling, adultery, anger, envy, greed, what have you. But I also see them all as a result of a spiritual defecit rather than a moral defecit, as I see morality a practice of will and choice and spirituality of a nature.

When I look back at my past depravities I have often phrased it as "what [who] would have possessed me to do....". Enough said. JMHO.

Now for something so natural it seems to bare so little fruit in the human species. It is not biologically reproductive. It produces a plethora of physical health issue from AIDS to cancers, hepatitis, etc. Yet supposedly it is natural, yet it is inherently counter prodcutive in its fruits in the physical sense.

When you look at it in the human social-psychological realm it is equally desasterous. It is associated with all sorts of mental health issues. I find it quite ironic that there is so much mental health disorders associated with homosexuality. Too many to be casual and suggestive that the homosexuality is a symptom of the psychological disorders, whether genetic or environmental.

There is a defecit in the programming whether you chose to call it psychological or spiritual as there is little to no fruitfulness in this so called natural inclination.

You may chose to validate it's occurance by cross species but that does not mean there isn't something wrong with the wiring when a male or female human engages in homosexual realtions and relationship. I'm not saying they are bad, but it lack virtually no fruit in both the physcial or psychological realms.

This is what I stated when I first spoke on the subject, befor I was butchered. Whats so diffrent and why did I catch so much flack. Not that I care. I even took out what the Bible says and spoke purley on Nature and the concept of existance and that Homosexuality was aginst the laws of nature because it can not produce life.

 

[EasyEJL]

Yes, but those are pathological states, Easy. They are so-called "disease states", whereas homosexuality is not; as we have seen, it is quite the opposite, and confers a directed survival benefit. I see what you are trying to establish here, but disagree with the logical link, for these reasons.

I was not trying to establish anything, its B5150's articles that show the correlation between mental illness and homosexuality. I was merely placing again the reminder that many things that suck and that we strive to rid our race of are natural, as the question of homesexuality being natural or not was the original point of this thread

You still have yet to show in any significant way that the homosexual behavior itself provides any survival benefit in humans. Even in other species, the same sex cooperation confers a survival benefit, theres no evidence that a male or female animal copulating with same sex animal provides survival benefits other than perhaps lowered population levels. If i'm wrong there and there is evidence of the copulation providing survival benefits, please show it to me. The fact that dolphins and other animals use it to show dominance, or even as a part of play doesn't show evidence that it provides a survival benefit unless you can show failure of survival by lack of same sex copulation. It only shows they do it

But if it is a genetic issue that causes homesexuality or a strong preponderance towards it, and a genetic issue that also causes higher suicide rates and mental illnesses, is it no less a disease and birth defect than the genes that cause a preponderance towards alcohol or drug addictions?

 

[dsade]

This is what I stated when I first spoke on the subject, befor I was butchered. Whats so diffrent and why did I catch so much flack. Not that I care. I even took out what the Bible says and spoke purley on Nature and the concept of existance and that Homosexuality was aginst the laws of nature because it can not produce life.

You are officially either obtuse or intellectually dishonest.

Homosexuality exists in nature, therfore by definition it is natural. This was pointed out .many times already, but you chose to ignore it nd re ive the fallacy.

 

[NattyT]

Cancer, diabetes, trisonomy 17 are all also natural.

Not necessarily, I understand your view on our belifs, but if you look at what the bible says about disease and how Jesus healed people of there diseases and disorders they can be put out of a natural catagory. Spirits and infirmities can inhabit bodies and cause things to occure in the body that is not natural. Thats why cancer patients suffer in similar ways and are infected in similar ways. The same thing with the way that Homosexuals act and deal with one another. They all have the same manorisms and lifestyle, they dont have to meet to act the same, they are controled by the same thing. Therfor they exsibit the same behavior all across the world from there style of dress to there flamboyant lifestyle. Do you get what im saying.

The disease enters the body and attacks the organ that it is designed to it dosent matter who the host is. If you belive in spiritual things then you can understand this.

 

[EasyEJL]

Not necessarily, I understand your view on our belifs, but if you look at what the bible says about disease and how Jesus healed people of there diseases and disorders they can be put out of a natural catagory. Spirits and infirmities can inhabit bodies and cause things to occure in the body that is not natural. Thats why cancer patients suffer in similar ways and are infected in similar ways. The same thing with the way that Homosexuals act and deal with one another. They all have the same manorisms and lifestyle, they dont have to meet to act the same, they are controled by the same thing. Therfor they exsibit the same behavior all across the world from there style of dress to there flamboyant lifestyle. Do you get what im saying.

The disease enters the body and attacks the organ that it is designed to it dosent matter who the host is. If you belive in spiritual things then you can understand this.

Well, luckily I don't believe in spiritual things, and don't see how it applies to trisonomy 17 which is a birth defect that resulted in the miscarriage of one of my children.

 

[Mulletsoldier]

I was not trying to establish anything, its B5150's articles that show the correlation between mental illness and homosexuality. I was merely placing again the reminder that many things that suck and that we strive to rid our race of are natural, as the question of homesexuality being natural or not was the original point of this thread

Yes, as I said, the bolded part is exactly what you were trying to establish: that certain natural things are not beneficial, and were correlating homosexuality with cancer, diabetes and so forth. I can see your point, but those are pathological states which inhibit the proper functioning of the organism.

You still have yet to show in any significant way that the homosexual behavior itself provides any survival benefit in humans.

Unfortunately, 200, 000 year old ethnographic studies on the subject are difficult to obtain. Homosexuality, then, being recognized as both natural and in no way harmful to the human organism, by rights confers the exact same benefits as heterosexuality, removed from procreation. That is, unless you feel that sexuality provides no benefits to survival aside from procreation. (It does, by the way.)

Even in other species, the same sex cooperation confers a survival benefit, theres no evidence that a male or female animal copulating with same sex animal provides survival benefits other than perhaps lowered population levels. If i'm wrong there and there is evidence of the copulation providing survival benefits, please show it to me.

I did. In fact, I believe I directly quoted a study, so you must have chosen to ignore that. The full study in question, which you have not read, goes on to describe a wide-range of survival benefits conferred from homoeroticism: benefits ranging from pack cohesiveness, to predatory mating [male fruit flies copulating with same-sex partners to occupy them from mating with other females]. The evidence is there, you are choosing to ignore it.

The fact that dolphins and other animals use it to show dominance, or even as a part of play doesn't show evidence that it provides a survival benefit unless you can show failure of survival by lack of same sex copulation. It only shows they do it

Nope. You are generalizing here, Easy. Again, I would suggest reading the full-text instead of basing your opinions on a second-hand report by the UK Telegraph.

But if it is a genetic issue that causes homesexuality or a strong preponderance towards it, and a genetic issue that also causes higher suicide rates and mental illnesses, is it no less a disease and birth defect than the genes that cause a preponderance towards alcohol or drug addictions?

Incorrect. As I said, homosexuality is not a pathological state: it does not result in impaired functioning and/or danger to the organism; all the other examples you are giving do. You cannot say, "I'm not trying to establish something" and then go on to [try and] establish just that.

 

[NattyT]

You are officially either obtuse or intellectually dishonest.

Homosexuality exists in nature, therfore by definition it is natural. This was pointed out .many times already, but you chose to ignore it nd re ive the fallacy.

Its existance in animals dosent mean anything pertainning to human beings, and also whos to say that demons can not inhabit animals. You do know the story about Jesus casting the demons into the heard of swine, we wont even go there. But it does state that.

I would like to belive that we are held at a standard much higher then animals. Dogs have sex in public places out in the open, does that mean that humanbeings should be exscused if the exsibit this behavior? Dogs Dears and squirls run infront of cars and become road kill. Yet we teach or kids not do the same. Animals can learn but can not reason and are held to no moral responsibility.

Even though they are animals they still must produce and if they all practiced a homo lifestyle then they would cease to exist therfor going aginst there natural instinct to survive. In no way have I been dishonest to what I have said in the past.

 

[B5150]

Not necessarily, I understand your view on our belifs, but if you look at what the bible says about disease and how Jesus healed people of there diseases and disorders they can be put out of a natural catagory. Spirits and infirmities can inhabit bodies and cause things to occure in the body that is not natural. Thats why cancer patients suffer in similar ways and are infected in similar ways. The same thing with the way that Homosexuals act and deal with one another. They all have the same manorisms and lifestyle, they dont have to meet to act the same, they are controled by the same thing. Therfor they exsibit the same behavior all across the world from there style of dress to there flamboyant lifestyle. Do you get what im saying.

The disease enters the body and attacks the organ that it is designed to it dosent matter who the host is. If you belive in spiritual things then you can understand this.

Where are you getting this stuff?

 

[NattyT]

Dosent the bible say that jesus came to heal the sick and he did, didnt he. Dosent it say that by his stripes we are healed. Dosent it speak on the laying of hands and prayer. Why am I getting these things and you saying your a beliver are not. Is sickness and disease and infimities and demon possesion real B5150.

 

[bpmartyr]

NattyT, no disrespect intended, but you are way out of your intellectual league here. Aside from your spelling and grammar, your ideas come across as simplistic, narrow minded, unresearched and juvenile.

I am a conservative Evangelic Christian BTW so I don't come from the antithesis of ideologies here. Your posts reinforce stereotypes of the "simplistic Christian Bigot".

Please stop.

 

[Burner]

Homosexuality exists in nature, therfore by definition it is natural. This was pointed out .many times already, but you chose to ignore it nd re ive the fallacy.

I'm sure others will disagree with me, but as a Christian I don't necessarily disagree with what you are saying, by that I mean homosexuality may very well be natural.

As a separate issue, which is where I think you and I will disagree, is that I believe just because something is "natural" doesn't mean it's beneficial to act on, or what I believe to be right. If you wanted to argue that since something is natural, then what is wrong with it, the logical response would be to point out examples of people who naturally want to harm others and such. From a young age it was natural for me to steal, lie, be selfish etc. since I was born with a sinful nature, which is why I needed to acknowledge my need for forgiveness and accept it.

 

[NattyT]

Well, luckily I don't believe in spiritual things, and don't see how it applies to trisonomy 17 which is a birth defect that resulted in the miscarriage of one of my children.

Well Easy Im sorry to hear that, but I do know that the devil is hear to kill steal and destroy. And There are a lot of things that cant be explained. Im sorry you dont belive in what you cant see, but there is a spiritual realm where things occure. I know this and it keeps me in prayer for my children and wife, I cant protect them from those things because I am here in the natural world but there are angels as well as demons and we cant see them.

Faith and belife is the beginning and still you cant figure out the ways of God totally.

 

[Mulletsoldier]

NattyT, no disrespect intended, but you are way out of your intellectual league here. Aside from your spelling and grammar, your ideas come across as simplistic, narrow minded, unresearched and juvenile.

I am a conservative Evangelic Christian BTW so I don't come from the antithesis of ideologies here. Your posts reinforce stereotypes of the "simplistic Christian Bigot".

Please stop.

Word.

 

[EasyEJL]

Yes, as I said, the bolded part is exactly what you were trying to establish: that certain natural things are not beneficial, and were correlating homosexuality with cancer, diabetes and so forth. I can see your point, but those are pathological states which inhibit the proper functioning of the organism.

And B5150's studies showed that homosexuality has similar pathological tendencies.

I did. In fact, I believe I directly quoted a study, so you must have chosen to ignore that. The full study in question, which you have not read, goes on to describe a wide-range of survival benefits conferred from homoeroticism: benefits ranging from pack cohesiveness, to predatory mating [male fruit flies copulating with same-sex partners to occupy them from mating with other females].

You quoted a study which doesn't show causal relationship. It shows that species have homosexual tendencies survive. For someone who pokes fun at others logic chains, its amazing how lacking sometimes your arguments are. Show where in the same species in similar climates without other outside interventions that only affected 1 group that with the group having same sex intercourse had higher survival than the group that didn't. If you can't show that, you don't have a causal relationship.

Incorrect. As I said, homosexuality is not a pathological state: it does not result in impaired functioning and/or danger to the organism; all the other examples you are giving do. You cannot say, "I'm not trying to establish something" and then go on to [try and] establish just that.

you stating it is not a pathological state, and it not being a pathological state are 2 different things. I wasn't trying to establish anything, I was having a phone conversation about the weekend and got maudlin about fathers day.

Cancer, diabetes, trisonomy 17 are all also natural.

My dad has had half of each lung removed from cancer, my grandfather died from diabetes complications, and what would have been my 3rd child/first son was miscarried at week 19 due to trisonomy... So it was more a thought about fathers day.

 

[NattyT]

NattyT, no disrespect intended, but you are way out of your intellectual league here. Aside from your spelling and grammar, your ideas come across as simplistic, narrow minded, unresearched and juvenile.

I am a conservative Evangelic Christian BTW so I don't come from the antithesis of ideologies here. Your posts reinforce stereotypes of the "simplistic Christian Bigot".

Please stop.

Well by you being an Evangelicle you should edify the brother instead of trying to belittle my spelling and grammer, telling me that Im out of my league intellectualy is down right direspectful. And evrything I have said is biblical based seached and proven in the word. So I may not slap a tittle on my name but I know who lord is. You need to take your own advice. Whos the bigot here brother.

 

[Mulletsoldier]

And B5150's studies showed that homosexuality has similar pathological tendencies.

His studies, one from an organization dedicated to "curing" homosexuality, showed weak correlation and represented it as causation instead. No offense intended to Brian.

You quoted a study which doesn't show causal relationship. It shows that species have homosexual tendencies survive. For someone who pokes fun at others logic chains, its amazing how lacking sometimes your arguments are. Show where in the same species in similar climates without other outside interventions that only affected 1 group that with the group having same sex intercourse had higher survival than the group that didn't. If you can't show that, you don't have a causal relationship.

Incorrect. In fact, the study went on to specifically state that a survival benefit was conferred as a direct result of homoerotic behavior - i.e., the species, to a certain extent, was surviving because of, and not in spite of, homosexuality. I would suggest reading the study you are commenting on, honestly. To tell me my arguments are weak, and then continue to make judgments on a work you have never read is ridiculous. As I said, the **** is there for you to read, you are choosing not to read it.

you stating it is not a pathological state, and it not being a pathological state are 2 different things. I wasn't trying to establish anything, I was having a phone conversation about the weekend and got maudlin about fathers day.

I am not going to argue with you about your intent; it is fairly obvious. As for the pathology, explain to me in which ways homosexuality results in a pathological state.

 

[dsade]

I'm sure others will disagree with me, but as a Christian I don't necessarily disagree with what you are saying, by that I mean homosexuality may very well be natural.

As a separate issue, which is where I think you and I will disagree, is that I believe just because something is "natural" doesn't mean it's beneficial to act on, or what I believe to be right. If you wanted to argue that since something is natural, then what is wrong with it, the logical response would be to point out examples of people who naturally want to harm others and such. From a young age it was natural for me to steal, lie, be selfish etc. since I was born with a sinful nature, which is why I needed to acknowledge my need for forgiveness and accept it.

while we could move on to further discuss beneft, and examine true definition of right and wrong (I refer to both definitive Nietzsche works - geneaology of morals and beyond good and evil for a thorough handling of the subject), the initial post in the thead was addressing ONLY the issue of natural wihout value judgement.

The importance of conceding the point cannot be overstated.

Kudos to many in this thread for helping furthr rational discourse on an important subject.

 

[NattyT]

So animals having homosexual behavior is a important topic, WOW.

 

[bpmartyr]

Well by you being an Evangelicle you should edify the brother instead of trying to belittle my spelling and grammer, telling me that Im out of my league intellectualy is down right direspectful. And evrything I have said is biblical based seached and proven in the word. So I may not slap a tittle on my name but I know who lord is. You need to take your own advice. Whos the bigot here brother.

Seriously. Trying to comprehend your senseless babble hurts my head.


If you had ANY reading comprehension you would have noticed I stated "aside from your spelling and grammar". Your spelling and grammar do not require any outside influence for belittlement, it is intrinsic.

Telling you to stop now and quit making a fool out of your self is NOT disrespectful but rather the complete opposite. You would tell someone if their fly was unzipped wouldn't you?

Biblically based? There is a BIG difference between a movie that is a true story and one that is BASED on a true story, no? Rhetorical question Farley.

You calling me a bigot is again laughable and makes me really wish that you use your internet access for something quite useful and clearly much needed in your case; starting with a dictionary and spell check ffs.

Now take your drivel to a forum with other like minded Neanderthals where in you can bask in each others ineptitude and superciliousness.

 

[Mulletsoldier]

superciliousness.

After using this word, your calling me condescending or verbose privileges have officially been revoked. :type:

 

[dsade]

So animals having homosexual behavior is a important topic, WOW.

Ok...obtuse it is.

 

[Burner]

while we could move on to further discuss beneft, and examine true definition of right and wrong (I refer to both definitive Nietzsche works - geneaology of morals and beyond good and evil for a thorough handling of the subject), the initial post in the thead was addressing ONLY the issue of natural wihout value judgement.

The importance of conceding the point cannot be overstated.

Kudos to many in this thread for helping furthr rational discourse on an important subject.

I see what you're saying, even though i feel the point of this thread was to make an unspoken argument that i mentioned earlier.


EDIT* I'm digin' Eviscerate btw